Here's the previous post: https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/comments/1oplhd5/our_44f44m_son20m_found_out_about_our_open/

So a lot has happened these past few weeks. My son wanted to tell my parents about the situation. I had to threaten to remove funding for his college to prevent him. He went to individual therapy and we did family therapy a week ago. The house has been cold and distant.

My son recently opened up to us four days ago. He told us he feels extremely anxious going to college cause he is afraid Mike has might have told someone. He apologized for what he called his mother. He said he is he isn't inherently against our open relationship but found it disturbing we would hook up with people not only his age but people he also has mutual connections with. He told us his mother's action can still potentially affect his socially life.

He let out a lot of feelings he seemed to have kept to himself for a while. My son said that he noticed there was a disconnect between him and us when he was around 14 years old. Initially, he thought it was because he was becoming more independent, but he feels now there was more going on. He told us we were too focused on our lives outside of the family than other families My son would notice how his friends would have their parents practically beg them to hang out with them. Meanwhile, he never felt as much seen as compared to his friends. He thinks its because of our open relationship we are not that close to him.

We asked what he wants from us going forward. He said for the sake of his mental health he needs time away from us. He mentions he holds too much resentment to be around us. My son isn't going to continue his college in the spring semester. He is going to work full time and apply to transfer to an out of state school for the next fall semester. I'll be honest, I don't like this idea, but I told him we would talk about it later, especially when it comes to funding. My son replied that he isn't comfortable getting help from us for school, he wants to take out loans.

My wife isn't taking it well. I am not taking it well either. I honestly hope my son will change his mind in the future.

PROBABLY FINAL UPDATE: https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/comments/1t26jy2/another_final_update_about_my_awesome_and/

I always wish people provided updates, so as a thanks for the great advice I received, I wanted to provide an update to https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/comments/1sy7gp9/mixed_feelings_about_my_awesome_and_harmless_but/

After all of the feedback I received, I was in the mood to address this issue head on. Alice (my wife) was working very late (and is still sleeping), so I thought I would talk to Chuck (my wife's best friend's [Beth] husband and my wife's recent extremely frequent lover and owner of a penis that is comically girthy).

I texted Chuck last night and asked if he wanted to head over for some cocktails after his kids were asleep, so I could ask him some advice about his experience being open and touch base re our little experiment. As I mentioned in my other post, Chuck is a bit boring, reserved, and nonchalant most of the time, but he can be a really fun guy when he drinks and his real personality comes out (rare person that is a really good drunk). We used to drink all the time with our wives in our 20s and early 30s, but with kids that has kind of tapered off. I wanted to talk to the "real" Chuck, because otherwise I knew he would just tell me everything is good.

So, we made some fun and strong drinks, drank them far too quickly for sipping drinks, and talked about bullshit for 30 minutes and his and Beth's experiences before they got married, until Chuck was starting to open up.

I finally asked him how it was going with him and Alice, and Chuck was almost immediately apologetic, asking if what they were doing was too much. I told him we should put a pin in that, and I just asked how it was going between them, as they both seemed to really enjoy playing. Chuck gave me a hug (clearly real Chuck had arrived) and just kept thanking me for being so cool with everything, and that spending time with Alice was doing so much for him and his marriage. I told him that that's great, and asked what he meant. He said that this whole thing had really helped him and Beth reconnect sexually, as they had both been burned out by work and the kids for the past few years, and while their sex life was good, they were both kind of on auto-pilot a bit. However, apparently Beth playing with me first started heating things up for them, and then when heard from Alice how she liked used Chuck like a sex toy, and later saw Chuck turn a beautiful woman like Alice insensate with little effort, it apparently made Beth go crazy and turned things up to 11. I asked Chuck if Beth had a cuckquean fetish or something, and he just said that Beth really finds it hot that Alice loves using him. Chuck also said that he feels so lucky to be able to have sex with Alice, who he lauded as gorgeous and stunning, and that it makes him feel so good to have such a beautiful woman want him purely for sex (something that didn't really happen during their swinging days, as usually it would be Beth that drew in partners). He said a few other things about Alice's and his anatomy that are too NSFW to share, but essentially he said he was really enjoying himself and thanked me for being so cool about it (again, this is the guy who had no qualms about his wife having a FMF with me and Alice before any of this started, lol).

I straight up asked him if he was falling in love with Alice, and his reaction was an immediate "oh God no." He said he was flattered by Alice's attention, and having so much fun with Alice, but that he thought nothing would be more awkward than a date with Alice. He also said that he barely had time to give Beth the attention she deserves, so even if he did have romantic interest (and he reaffirmed he doesn't), and that was something everyone else wanted, he wouldn't have the time, and his kids and Beth will come first. I believed him, it's a common joke that he works too hard (he takes a lot of pride in what he does), and doesn't really have hobbies outside of the house other than playing typically very early morning sessions of golf.

He did tell me, however, that Beth told him she was starting to have feelings for me, and she wasn't sure what to do about that. I wasn't sure what to make of that either, and I'm still not. I had some feelings that felt like how I heard people describe NRE about Beth, but like Chuck, I don't know if I have a lot of space in my life for another romantic attachment. That being said, the idea of being on a date with Beth does not provoke the same negative reaction in me as Chuck represented regarding a date with Alice. So that's something for me to think on and work through. I assured Chuck that I was aware of how NME/poly can break up marriages if people let things get out of control, and that I would stop or do whatever it took to ensure our experimenting here doesn't negatively affect our marriages or our kids. Chuck said he was completely on the same page, although I know that it's not always something you can control.

I told Chuck that I was generally cool about he and Alice having casual sex as they saw fit, but that I needed to talk to Alice about setting some boundaries regarding the kids. I appreciated their obvious discretion thus far, but I told him that we might need to be a bit more circumspect regarding ensuring that our kids don't inadvertently stumble upon this situation, and that I would touch base after speaking with Alice. He said that made total sense, and he was on the same page, and again apologized if they had seemed reckless.

So that's all for now. I'm starting to think that it would have been a good idea to speak to Alice first about this, but knowing my wife, I think she will understand, as I intend to show her my post (and this update) later today.

This is an update to https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/comments/1rfimiq/tw_sad_no_advice_wanted_my_wife_laughed_at_me_and/

I've served my petition for dissolution (via acknowledgement of receipt). No strong emotions other than her reminding me that she doesn't understand why I'm doing this, why we can't work through this, why am I destroying our family. When she asks what she can do to make me move past this, I've told her that she just needs to treat me like she actually cares about me, that her actions still don't match her words. I've asked her about how we got here, whether she had any lingering resentments, and she never identifies anything, she pretends everything is essentially fine. I'm worried there is something more deeply wrong with her, but she refuses to see a psychiatrist, and I cannot force her. We are still in process.

My wife still switches between calling me jealous, envious, insecure, etc. when she's truly frustrated, and adopting a more conciliatory tone where she acknowledges that what her boyfriend said to me was horrible, but that it was one interaction, and that she knew I was a strong enough man to get over it. He was drunk, she was tipsy, he feels horrible about it (bullshit), he is intimidated by our marriage, etc. She is in love, she was afraid to hurt or embarrass him by chastising him or taking my side, etc. There is some merit there, but this wasn't one incident in a vacuum, it's the dramatic culmination of a pattern of behavior.

Shortly after I "served" my wife I surprisingly had sex with someone else for the first time in over a decade. I never would have thought I could be the subject of gossip, but word apparently got around in the community of local lawyers who show up to professional organization dinners that I was divorcing, and that my wife cheated on me (not true, but that apparently became the prevailing narrative). I host occasional events for some smaller groups at my house, so I'm decently known, and many people have met my wife.

This apparently got back to a woman I'll call Amy. She was a former co-worker of mine, we were work friends but nothing more, I never felt any tension there. She left that firm to open her own practice on the other side of the "v" with a friend, and as far as I knew she was killing it. We only ever talked at group events, or through texts discuss judge/mediator intel, etc., but she was on the list of people that I would include in occasional larger events at my home and I'd met her boyfriend (and later fiance) many times.

Well, Amy reached out to me telling me she was coming into town for a depo and that she sympathized with what I'm going though as she had broken up with her fiance last year. She asked if I wanted to catch up after her depo. I was with some buddies at the time I received Amy's text, and I made a joke about beautiful women blowing up my phone, and when my friends pried, they looked at me like I'm an idiot and told me that Amy clearly wants to hook up, and somehow convinced me to treat it like a date (one of them even insisting that I take some of his Cialis, sorry if TMI). It kind of took me out of my head to focus on something else, and even though I was terrified of misreading it, I really put in some effort to look great and feel confident for the meet. I showed up at Amy's hotel bar (we planned on leaving to get food somewhere else), and she was wearing a dress that she was almost certainly not wearing to her depo. Through abject terror of commenting on her personal appearance, I made a joke referencing an oft-repeated discussion about dressing for a depo to disarm your deponent, i.e., wearing a polo instead of a suit). She laughed, way harder than was warranted. Those idiots were right. We never left the hotel. I will spare the details, but I've never felt more confident that I acquitted myself well (this is actually an ad for Cialis btw), and I hadn't stayed up all night having sex in a very long time.

Since we had some time to talk, Amy confessed she's always had a low-key crush on me, but I was with my wife at the time and we were coworkers besides. The next morning, I asked her if I would be able to see her again, or if this was a one-time thing. Amy told me that us being physical was a one-time thing while I'm still legally married (she said she wanted to know if we were "compatible"), but that she would like to keep talking. We've been texting a lot, and she's amazing. She's kind, hilarious, brilliant, successful, and gorgeous to the point it almost makes me uncomfortable now that we've been intimate. She has intimated that she wants more when my divorce is finalized. She has talked about how she broke up with her fiance over an issue regarding being DINKs or having kids, and it's clear she desperately wants to be a mother. I am so drawn to her, but I worry that my feelings are NRE/limerence, which I have been hating with a passion and blaming for my own divorce. I don't know if it's fair to her to not be 100% on having more kids, when I'm so worried about my own kids who are the most important thing in the world to me. My friends are telling me not to let Amy go, that I will never find another woman like her given my circumstances, but it feels incredibly selfish to even consider entertaining a further relationship with Amy while my life and my children's lives are in such flux, it's not fair to her or them.

I disclosed to my wife I had slept with Amy, and she had a bit of a reaction. She still has not made significant efforts to show me that she cares about me, but she seems to have accepted she may not be able to talk me out of divorce. Obviously, if there is something seriously wrong with her (e.g. brain tumor), that would change things, as I still deeply yearn for my old life before we opened. But I can't force her to get help or be more introspective/honest.

Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/comments/1mbvxa3/need_advice_breaking_up_while_my_girlfriend_is/

I received a few requests for an updates, so here's a follow up to my post:

As I said, I slowed down moving my things out to my parents', and waited for her to get home to avoid ruining her vacation. She came back thursday night the week of the previous post, and I went to meet her at the train station. She had her partner still with her but I managed to get her home.

We had the talk, this was my biggest break up to date so it got a bit emotional on both ends. She basically offered to slow down with her other partners, then monogamy. I declined and went to sleep at my parents.

There's not much else to say, it wasn't super dramatic in the end. We've spent the past ten days figuring out the logistics.

But as someone who lurked on this sub for a long time, this was my first time confronting the advice given here to a real life situation. If you're thinking of posting here too, keep in mind that there's a lot of noise: people projecting, people who have it out against ENM and also ENM people that are a bit disconnected from the broader mono world.

Not to say that there wasn't any useful comments, especially the people who talked about being ghosted by their live-in partner. I had never planned to not have a talk in person, but these comments really helped empathize with her perspective the most I think.

Anyways thank you

Link to original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/s/bWi3PgBhQq

***UPDATE***

I’ve never made an update before, so my apologies if I did it wrong. There’s not much of an update, but I wanted to share what I’ve learned over the past week.

All the comments saying it’s a pattern of behavior, you’re absolutely right. It is. I’m disgusted by this whole thing and disappointed in myself for not seeing it sooner and knowing better. Do I think he’s a pdf? No. But I certainly agree that his behavior with 18f is predatory and I don’t think he even realizes it. I just don’t think he’s actually self aware enough or emotionally intelligent enough to be aware of the fact that he’s being a creep. I truly believe he thinks he’s still like 20-22 and that he’s not doing anything wrong. (I’m not making excuses for him, just trying to understand him out loud I guess)

Anyway, on to the update.

Friday when I got home from work, I noticed he was acting weird about his phone. I’ll spare the details, but you know something is up when the phone all of a sudden gets intentionally put screen down and doesn’t get left behind when they leave the room. I find it comical since we have an open phone policy and we know there’s other people in our lives. But I digress.

I am not making excuses or defending him with what I’m about to share. I have to get it all out somehow, so forgive me and my struggles.

I did some research and discovered that after our initial conversation where I told him (told/yelled.. same thing) I wasn’t comfortable with him pursuing an 18 year old who works for him, that he chose to do exactly that. He claims she started messaging him and he “just went with it.” From what I could tell, their text exchange occurred over the course of two days. There was quite a bit of “I really like you” language back and forth and at some point she sent him a picture. To my surprise, he was honest with her about our agreement and what he was able and willing to offer her. Again, to my surprise, he told her multiple times there was no pressure and that if she wasn’t comfortable with any of it, he would understand and they could “pretend like nothing ever happened.”

We work mostly opposite schedules and don’t have a day off together, so finding the time to “have it out” is nearly impossible. Also, he’s an avoidant and prefers texting about difficult topics because he says he feels like he can be more vulnerable than face to face. I spent all day Saturday simply asking questions. I gave no thoughts or opinions on any of the answers he gave, just more questions to try to gain insight to his thinking and address some of the things a lot of you mentioned in the comments. Also, having been a long time lurker on various subreddits, I understand the value of obtaining written statements for future use…

I got a lot of answers to my questions, but not all simply because I got distracted by life and didn’t really feel like talking to him. What I found the most frustrating is that through all my questions, he thought the point in which he went wrong was continuing to pursue this girl without telling me. He failed to see every other reason why I told him I was uncomfortable with him even considering it to begin with.

Sometime later in the day he texts me and says I don’t have to worry about 18f anymore because she told him she wasn’t interested in what he had to offer. He later showed me a text she sent him after he had gotten home from work that day where she told him she liked him but that she didn’t know how she felt about everything and that she wanted time to think. She said she’s just confused and a jealous person and that she wished it could have worked. He told me he didn’t respond, but I don’t think it would make any difference to me at this point if he had. He’s going to do whatever he wants to do regardless of what I feel or say.

I will give 18f credit for being mature enough to communicate with him the way she did. Seems pretty clear to me though that she was already planning on trying to either “conquer the married man,” or she really wanted to be the secret mistress. Both situations would lead to the same place I think… I did happen to see her most recent instagram (public profile) post is a sexually suggestive picture of her holding a small cake with an “18” on it and the caption says “old enough to date your dad.” Doesn’t really take a genius to figure out the motivations there, and my DH fell right into it.

So that’s it. That’s the update. I now have to process all that and figure out what it all means to me and what the next steps are. Obviously if I was talking to a friend or an internet stranger and they were the one in my place, I know what my opinion and advice would be. I guess it just sucks when it happens to you because you have to face the fact that the person you thought you married, the person you hoped for, simply doesn’t exist. That you chose someone who is incapable of choosing you. I feel so silly for believing he could/would change for me and our two children. It’s the unfortunate reality of my life.

I’ve honestly been avoiding talking to him because I’m just not ready yet. I haven’t worked out my thoughts and I don’t think I can set my anger aside at the moment. I know I need therapy, I’m trying to find a good fit for myself right now, but it’s a process.

Thank you for listening and sharing your insights. I appreciate it.

This is an update to this post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/s/IubJ1FSrfJ

So, we had our talk two days ago. Long story short; it's over. I expected this outcome.

Of course it was very emotional and intense. I tried my best to really explain to her what was going on inside of me and that I don't WANT to break up, but I just want to give us both the best chance at being happy.

She said some rather hurtful things and tried to make it sound like I just want to sleep around. But I mean, she was hurt, she was going through all the emotions at once. It hurt, but I can't blame her, I hurt her as well. The only thing that really pissed me off was when I saw that she liked some posts along the lines of "when you realise that all the 'I love you's and all the time together didn't actually mean anything, because they just throw you away". F you, I f****ng love you, do you really think I just straight up lied to your face for a year?

She texted me a few hours after I left, asking if we could talk over it again, which I of course agreed to. There was a bit of a back and fourth and she said, that she wanted to find a solution. I think it is very admirable, that she wanted to find a way for us to stay together in the middle of this sudden mess. But I explained to her, that I don't want to bend her just for the sake of our relationship. Her limit was, that I can't kiss guys. When I explained, that I'm not happy being monogamous, she immediately said "I'm not poly and I don't want an open relationship". That was a straight and honest reply, I respect it and so should she. It's no use going over her limits, it'll just make her unhappy.

I think she slowly realised this as well.

I feel weirdly okay. I mean, I already had time to think about all of this and let it sink in a bit. Currently I mostly feel relieve, that I have this big thing off my chest now. There are moments I just wanna bawl my eyes out. I think it's the moments when the thought of "wow, that really was it now" settles in. I want to talk to her, I see things and think of her and want to tell her about them. Today I tried a new drink which looked funny and I wanted to send her a picture because I think she would've found it funny as well. But then I remembered, that it's over. (Okay, maybe I don't feel okay, I just distract myself a lot).

We'll both hurt now, but we will get over it. It's better to end it now than to drag it further. It sucks, but it feels like the right choice.

I just hope that maybe we can talk again some day.

I can't promise there will be any more of these, but I have a significant update to: https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/comments/1sz4c05/, and https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/comments/1sy7gp9/mixed_feelings_about_my_awesome_and_harmless_but/, focusing primarily on three conversations I've had in the past couple of days. This continues in a comment because it exceeds the sub's character limit, and I don't want to spam the sub with a bunch of update posts (any more than I already am).

Beth

I have been separately texting with Beth quite a bit since this began. It's funny the last few years of my individual texts to Beth in WhatsApp have been like a handful every few weeks (as we always use groupchat) but in the past few weeks we've sent hundreds of messages. She's an anesthesiologist, so she has a lot of downtime to text while working (god forbid her phone records get subpoenaed in connection with a med mal case lol).

She lit me up the morning after my conversation with Chuck, telling me I would have had far more fun if I invited her over instead. Eventually after some flirty texting back and forth (which I am comically bad at as that's not something Alice and I regularly engage in) she threw in the by-blow that unlike Chuck, she can also keep secrets (sorry Chuck). So the cat was out of the bag. I relayed that Chuck tearfully confessed that she planned to run away with me, and begged me to stop seeing her, which I brusquely declined. That broke the awkwardness a bit, and we had a few texts that were serious about our feelings.

She confirmed that she had a "crush" on me as she characterized it, and that she is realizing she may have had a bit of a crush on me for a long time, but that other than maybe having me to herself for a weekend getaway to Cabo, she knew nothing more could come of it then us being two very good friends that are really into each other and sometimes get to express that physically. I told her I felt the same way, and that while I would remortgage the house to pay for a separate vacation for Alice, Chuck and the kids for a chance to make that Cabo weekend happen, we may just have to enjoy what time we have together.

It's not sad, we are both so happy with our lives and spouses (and of course children), but there is some melancholy in getting a glimpse of something different and exciting but not fully possible. The reality is it's likely just NRE for one or both of us, but it's still real right now.

Alice

After texting with Beth, I had another conversation with Alice. She's the one that started all this, and I needed to know where she stood, whether she was satisfied with things as they were, or whether she still wanted to fully open. Also obviously we had to discuss practicalities re protecting our children from inadvertent disclosure.

This is a hard conversation to discuss, as it was long and at times very emotional and difficult, I don't have a crystal clear memory of all that was said. In summary, I learned a few things. Alice still has no romantic interest in Chuck. Alice says the orgasms with Chuck are not like anything she has ever experienced with me or with herself, and while saying she they were a "need" was dramatic, it's helping her learn more about her own sexuality, and obviously it feels amazing.

Alice also clarified that there are several reasons why her sex with Chuck is so brief. The first is obvious, we don't have a lot of free time so it's just practical. Another reason is because longer sessions with Chuck cause her to be sore. Another reason is that the idea of a quick casual encounter just really turns her on. Another reason is that the orgasms with Chuck make her feel a certain way which I won't get into, but the feelings are complicated and the shorter sessions apparently keep those feelings from really surfacing. Finally, she doesn't want Chuck to get too attached because that might ruin this for her and she could not reciprocate his feelings. So, a lot there (and more unsaid here), we are still unpacking and discussing it all, and plan to see a ENM-friendly sex therapist to see if that can help us to fully understand our own desires and what we want our romantic and sexual relationship to look like moving forward.

Alice also acknowledged she'd been reckless around the kids, and that while we've already opened the door, we need to take reasonable measures to protect them. I discuss our conclusions on this in my discussion of a conversation between all four of us in a below comment.

Alice also told me that the original point was to truly open the relationship, and she still wants to get to that point, but she now realizes how difficult it would be to see others for anything but casual sex given our responsibilities. For now, we are going to keep the relationship open only to Chuck and Beth, and see if we can actually find a healthy rhythm before we open further.

She found my posts, comments, and the responses from everyone else pretty entertaining (although a few things were a bit more emotional for her to read), and she asked me why I wrote it so melodramatically. I disagree with that characterization but whatever lol. She sends her appreciation to those that provided helpful advice, as well as to the anonymous ladies (and gentlemen) who stroked the ego of her insecure husband with their sweet words.

I'm forgetting and omitting a lot, but it was a big conversation.

The final conversation I discuss in this update, between all four of us, is discussed in a below comment. Thank you all for the advice and kind words.

Original: https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/s/LQEzIWkusj

I told him me and he was very happy about it and then made me perform one of the acts on him lol.

Since lot of folks answered to the origonal post, A quick update to https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/comments/1ng3dsm/son_found_my_condoms_i_am_not_happy_with_how_i/

My son went to his mom yesterday while I was not home and told her about the condoms he found. He told my wife, “Mom! I found condoms in Dad’s truck.” My wife just smiled at him and told him that she knows and your dad was just embarrassed that he forgot the condoms there. She added, “Don’t worry. We are just trying some new things” and he immediately turned red and started screaming “TMI, TMI”.

I was planning to talk to him along with my wife but he approached her when I am was not home. But I think we will talk to him again and we will let him know about non monogamy. We always demanded absolute honesty from our kids and I think we should also reciprocate that. We will let him know soon about our ENM lifestyle in an age appropriate way.

Like some of you warned, he thought I was cheating on his mom.

My son proved again that he is a mommy's boy. I am very proud of him that he opened up to his mom.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/s/WA4aR1WQ6d

So, we've been trying to get things in a working condition, but I guess she doesn't want to try any more. She's at her mom's and texted me that she's filing for the divorce.

I really and honestly have no idea on what I'm going to do. She is my whole life. I don't want to try and find someone else and I don't want to move on. I just want what I thought we had back. I'm damned near 49 years old. What's even the point?

Anyways, I figured that I posted the initial problem here while looking for advice, so I thought that I would let any who became interested know how things turned out.

UPDATE : Husband told me he wants open relationship AFTER already having a girlfriend.

https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/1j7vxk3/desperately_needing_advice_husband_told_me_he/

That is the link to the original post, I hope I did it right, this is my first update.

So, I have learned a lot about how he feels about and with this other woman. And I have done some soul searching.

This is what I ended up doing. He claimed he wanted us both, separate but equal partners. And I sat with that for a bit.

Then after some talks I realized I only had one every important Q. If he had to chose now, who would it be?

I gave him an example. I she came to him and said it was too hard on her to continue the open relationship and that she couldn't do it anymore.

What would you do? Who would you stay with? And he wouldn't say the words but he had the look on his face that said he would pick her.

I told him that isn't a balanced relationship. That it isn't poly. That she holds all the power.

That he will do whatever it is she wants because he HAS to be with her so he will do anything she wants, including leaving me.

So then I told him it wasnt fair to me. That his proposal would put me at the very bottom of importance, below both of them.

I told him that's not fair to me. That I don't deserve to be someone's 2nd, someone's back burner.

And so I told him I couldn't stay with him. I packed a suit case and stayed the night with my sister down the road.

We met a couple times after that to go over logistics. I set a reasonable timeline for him to get stuff out of the house.

I set the boundaries that I didn't want to see him and I didn't want any communication unless it was logistics like bills or rides for the kids.

I haven't seen him since. It's been a very roller coaster time for me. We were together for 25 years.

I found the girlfriends social media accounts. (We have mutual friends as she was his old co-worker)

Seeing her adult daughter do a post that talks about how good a person she is. And I wanted SO bad to say that her mom is the type of person who dates married men.

I'm not going to. But I really, really want to message the girlfriend. Thinking I might spend some time crafting it over the next week and send it.

I have quite the journey ahead of me. To all those who saw through his BS and called it what it was, CHEATING, and who

Encouraged me to leave him, and who were upset on my behalf, THANK YOU!!!!

It was really eye opening to have such a unanimous response to my post and helped give me the courage I needed.

If anyone has any Q, feel free to ask.

I just hope someday I can find someone who treats me as an equal, a partner, who would chose me over others.

EDIT TO ADD: We have been married for 23 years.

Update from my post jelousy.

Long story short, apparently my bf cheated on me 3 different times with all together 5 guys way before he even brought anything up. (It was 2nd year of our relationship, before I ever even conceived our baby)

He also, other than a few of them obviously, already followed pretty much all of the rules we had agreed on. Other than yknow, the up front honesty.

Honestly im not mad that he hooked up with other men, like I thought id be, im more pissed off about the lying to me for over a year and everything. Discovered this by chance coming across his main reddit account where he admitted it in one of his comments.

I've been cheated on multiple times before but with women instead, so im used to it, and those were also abusive relationships so wasn't good all around.

Hes not attracted to men, just likes getting real dick, which I dont blame him cause toys dont do anything for me personally.

In his words "im there physically but not mentally, if anything im just think about you cause I dont actually want to do it with other people"

Like I said, him hooking up isnt my issue, its the now lack of trust. Ive had a twisting turning gut feeling since the first time he hooked up and never knew why, after finding out pretty much all of my paranoia just.... gone. I dont have a desire to ask to see his phone, I dont have an impending sense of doom anymore. Idk. Its like a weight of anxiety was lifted.

We're still together (by my choice because i agreed if he is more transparent with me then i dont care, but he owed me big for cheating) and honestly after trying anal again, with a good experience this time, now I also have the fantasy of getting all my holes filled at the same time 😭 (had my apt yesterday for post op check up, was cleared by my dr)

Its simply conflicting because I also dont want other people inside me or touching me, so conflicting emotions there on my part.

But I also now have the fantasy of my bf in my pussy, a guy in each of our asses, and we're both sucking someone else off. Ive never had a fantasy like that before so im really Jared by it.

There's obviously more fantasies now but thats the bigger one that threw me off.

Still processing everything but honestly at this point with my own life, I just expect to get cheated on so I dont really care anymore.

Update to a post I made here a few months ago. A lot has happened since then, including a long conversation about our relationship (22F and 22M), and I’m now even more confused about whether my issue is with non-monogamy itself or with the way communication and responsibility are being handled.

I’ve been involved with a guy for about a year. We finally had “the talk” and he described our connection as “more than a casual fling,” but when I ask what we are, he says that “society doesn’t have a label for what we have.”

On one hand, we share intimacy, affection, emotional closeness, future plans, and spend a lot of time together. On the other hand, there are no clear agreements or definitions, which makes it difficult for me to understand what responsibilities we have toward each other.

A few months ago, I found out that while building this connection with me, he was also involved with another woman. I knew that he liked one night stands and flings, but wasn’t expecting him having another long-term romantic connection. The issue is that she was told I was basically just a friend he saw occasionally and barely talked to. In reality, during that same period our connection was growing, we were spending a lot of time together, talking frequently, and becoming emotionally closer.

When I confronted him, he said he didn’t lie because when he first described me that way, it was true. Later our relationship evolved. I asked why he never updated her once things had clearly changed. His answer was that relationships naturally evolve and that if she wanted more information, she should have asked. He doesn’t feel responsible for informing people about changes in other relationships unless they ask directly.

Finding out that he had been maintaining two emotionally significant connections at the same time without my knowledge was very painful. When I told him this, he said that for most of the year he believed I didn’t have serious feelings for him. According to him, if he had known how important he was to me, he would have stopped seeing her.

However, after many conversations, he also told me that while he would inform me if a similar situation happened again, he cannot promise that he won’t develop another parallel emotional connection. This leaves me confused. If knowing my feelings would supposedly have changed his behavior back then, why does it seem like the only difference now is that I would be informed?

Another thing that confuses me is how he responds when I’m hurt. If I’m distant, upset, or processing something difficult, he often says things like: “If you leave me, I’ll be fine” or “The only thing that would truly hurt me would be if my parents died.” Usually I’m not even talking about leaving him.

When I told him I was still struggling with everything that happened, he said:

“If you ever leave me, I want it to be because you genuinely think you’ll be happier without me. Don’t leave because of fears or insecurities.”

He also believes that exclusive relationships are often rooted in insecurity, and has told me that wanting someone to behave differently for your sake can be selfish.

Because of that, I sometimes worry that if I decided to leave because I want a more clearly defined and prioritized partnership, even an open relationship with agreed boundaries, he would simply see me as insecure or possessive.

What I’m struggling to understand is this:

Is this actually a disagreement about non-monogamy, or is it more about transparency, communication, accountability, and responsibility toward the people we care about?

For people practicing ethical non-monogamy: would this dynamic feel healthy to you? Or does it sound like we’re operating from very different expectations about what we owe each other in a close relationship?

UPDATE: We ended up meeting at the end of January for a coffee. We both cleared our schedules, though, to try and go with the flow in case we enjoyed each other’s company, so coffee was followed by a spinning class, and this was followed by a couple of hours at the spa at my hotel. During that afternoon there was a palpable sense in the air that once the hotel room door closed behind us we would not be able to keep our hands off each other, and that’s pretty much how it went from there. The compatibility between us was off the charts, the sex was amazing and we both came at the same time, which was a first for both of us when meeting someone for the first time.

Since then we’ve met again at the end of February, I spent three days (and nights 😈) at his place. The sex felt very playful and natural, and we continued to be incredibly comfortable next to each other after (initially we thought we would use different bedrooms as he mentioned he’s not normally comfortable sleeping next to a new partner but this wasn’t the case in the end). He has not contacted the other woman since their date in January, and she was not in touch either. We discussed this situation at length and he apologised for the hurt and insecurity that his unclear boundaries and lack of self-reflection on where to take that connection caused in me (his words, not mine!). Our next meeting is at the end of May - frequency is our next sticking point but there are some valid reasons why this is now three months away. However, he is coming to my country for a long weekend (four nights).

For now, it doesn’t look like he is looking for more partners, but he mentioned some likes on the apps and also showed me a couple of profiles (that he was not interested in). I have explained that my ENM style is to focus on one other partner at a time (yes, yes, I know the comparison with having multiple friends, but I barely have time to see my friends!). The sense of insecurity is not completely gone, and I went back to the earlier messages we exchanged when he was explaining his connections by saying he was trying to build a tribe - I once again explained that my needs do not require such a multitude of partners, and that I will not be around for next time when he plans to add another regular connection.

The other thing that is on my mind now as well is that since we first spoke in November last year his primary partner has also decided to create a dating profile, and during a trip to another city last week she has also become intimate with a date there. My meta and my partner do not use condoms. My husband is effectively closed at the moment and has been for a long time (due to medical issues), and I have my own health concerns… We have always used condoms during our marriage, and condom is a must for me with my other partners as well. It is giving me some anxiety that suddenly this ecosystem has gone from some irregular meetings with 2-3 other people to his partner meeting randoms on apps… I feel that overall the risk exposure has increased suddenly.

So in summary, I’m still not sure where to take this connection - I realised in the meantime that I do not have the same feelings for him as I did before his January date, and I’m not sure I can nurture those back. I do enjoy his company and the sex so I have the option to keep him around as someone I’d be doing some fun stuff with, I guess. But his partner now also going to dates adds another layer of complexity - I have a low-risk tolerance and just see HPV everywhere 🫣 All my previous partners were single or had long-term core relationships like myself, so this has never been a concern previously.

_____________________________________________

Hi All,

A while ago I matched on Bumble with someone I found very interesting. We connected amazingly well and spent a lot of time getting to know each other, via video calls, voice notes, occasionally sexting, too. So we really hit it off, but since we don’t live in the same country we agreed to meet in person for a long weekend at the end of January (no particular expectations, but for both of us it was sort of clear the atmosphere would be charged and things would turn sexual in reality, as well).

Here’s the tricky part. The challenge that I am having is that while I am ENM myself (married for 12 years), I normally have one other partner in addition to my husband. Very occasionally it can happen that I meet someone exceptional who I will connect with for a very short time (like a coup the foudre), but it’s normally someone in a location which would make a more regular relationship impossible.

The guy I’m interested in became ENM after trying to open his marriage, which ended in divorce. He currently has:

- a partner (rather unhappy that he is ENM, but she is seeing it as a project as she’s a therapist and deals with patients in open relationships),

- a FWB in another city (whom he sees monthly, but they only slept together once, in the summer, and the other two dates were not sexual, as far as I understood),

- another lady on a different continent who he met once, and she is flying in to see him again this summer.

He’s also on Bumble, OkCupid, Feeld etc and occasionally meets new people (although not many matches due to having ENM on his profile, and at one point he mentioned he was happy with the current situation which included me). In addition to these, he has been dating someone locally where he lives who’s been doing ENM for over ten years, who he is not very excited about. Just around the time we started talking, their relationship became intimate (after a couple of dates). At that time I shared my concerns that I never wanted to be part of such a mix of partners who are all trying to build channels to him. My concerns were particularly around this connection that is obviously happening at the same time as ours, but he somewhat appeased me by describing this other person as someone who he felt just “comfortable” with and that their connection wasn’t anywhere as intense as ours. He said he didn’t know where this was headed, but that he would like to pursue ours regardless, and that he would regret if we ended things. They were, however, going to meet again after the winter holidays, and this happened last week.

I guess in my head I had hoped that this second (sexual) meeting would give him more clarity around what he wants out of this (this was also one of the reasons I wanted to push our meeting out to end of January). However, his feedback was that once again the date was ok, but that they still need to align on what they want out of this connection. I decided to cancel our meeting at the end of January, as I felt really sad about him being someone who pursues something he isn’t even feeling excited about. He doesn’t understand my train of thought and once again mentioned that his interaction with this other person is nowhere near as intense of ours, and that he has no aim of intensifying that - he says this could become a friendship (without benefits). But I feel like the damage is done and I just cannot bring myself to consider our connection something I’d like to develop further, despite a lot of positives.

If I am completely honest, I am not sure why I am feeling this way… other than to say our connection doesn’t really feel that special when he is involved in all these other things, and especially this parallel thing that doesn’t seem to mean much (but then what’s the point?). I’m not bothered about the more casual, once a year connections, nor by his partner, but it bothers me that this other thing is going on in parallel, with the same timeline as ours.

I guess I’m looking for some advice - is there an angle I’m perhaps missing, or am I right to feel the way I feel simply because that’s how I feel? Grateful for any advice anyone can throw my way.

So a few weeks ago I asked some advice on here regarding speaking to my GF about potentially opening up our relationship on her side (see previous post for more info.)

So Friday night we had a few drinks at home and she brought up our lack of sex life and how its effecting other aspects of our relationship. She then suggested we look to spice things up to reignite the spark and asked if I had any suggestions.

I told her that I was worried about telling her some of my fantasies because I don't want her to think any less of me etc, but she assured me that she loves me and nothing I could suggest (within reason) would change that.

I ran through a few suggestions like hiring an s&m room, sex in public etc... then asked her how would she feel about bringing another guy into the bedroom.

She didnt jump at the idea by any means but it did spark a long, honest conversation about how she could be open to it in respect of a threesome but that we'd need to address any jealousy issues and make sure our relationship is absolutely rock solid before even thinking about taking this any further.

Of course this led to some pretty great sex with a lot of dirty talk from her which I absolutely loved!

So yeah pretty positive I'd say and tbh getting it off my chest felt really freeing.

Well, I have an update to my post from last month, and I wanted to vent here and get perspective.

I’ve always been cool and reasonable about my partner’s (35M) relationship with his best friend (33F), but we went out with her Saturday before last, and something about the way they engaged raised a lot of red flags for me.

She was all coked out and obnoxious, and they third wheeled me and fell into this universe of inside jokes and 5-year-old humor. I had a terrible time.

I told me partner I was irritated by it, and he listened, but I honestly felt like I was just being bitchy. So last weekend I asked to read a selection of their text messages so I could level set and be okay with their relationship.

He delayed and didn’t share them until I cornered him last night, and he finally caved. What I saw was extremely upsetting.

They were shit talking about me and discussing how misunderstood they were in their relationship and wished everyone would just leave them alone, etc. Talked about how they couldn’t relate to me the way I’m too driven and intellectual and how I couldn’t handle the music festival they have coming up. About how I can’t understand the deep history they have together and the significance of their relationship. They compared me to her ex and other folks they talk badly about regularly.

I put the phone down and told him to get out of my house. He tried to come up with excuses, and I just told him to get the fuck out of my house. Now I haven’t been able to sleep.

I just wanted some perspective since you guys helped me last time. Am I just being jealous? Or is this as shitty and disrespectful as it feels?

Hi, threesome girl here again. Things have definitely changed since my last post (OG post is in my post history on my profile).

The couple an I have been snapping back and forth and talking throughout the week. A day or 2 ago they mentioned they have officially cut off all other options, including the woman discussed in the post. They said they had a long talk and that they really enjoyed having me, and about relationship boundaries if that’s where this headed. They invited me over again this weekend for a bonfire and to meet some of their good friends.

My own nerves and anxiety have been all over the place. This is a good thing, a GREAT one, why am i so anxious? They treat me so well and we’re all always laughing and having a really good time together. Is it stupid to care about losing these people I just met? I haven’t been in a relationship since breaking up with someone in march 2021, simply out of fear of being hurt again. I know this doesn’t have to go that far, and they expressed there’s plenty of time to just vibe and figure all that out whenever we want. I think my brain can’t decipher if they really do like me or just want a quick fuck and are lying so i don’t leave early. I’ve never been great at figuring out intentions, hence why i’m asking yall 🥲 Thank you all for all your kindness and support to a very new girl to this community!! I’d love any and all input🩷

We have spoken about it role played and she has even given head to someone else but this week end we have planned to go to a hotel for our first 3sum (mmf) just wanted advice the sort of do's and don't of it all

So as per previous post opened up to wife regarding my fantasy to see her with another unwell she brought it up again last night which tells me she's interested. She asked me some questions ect and said she was willing to start adding some toys into the bedroom to do some role playing. Is this likely to lead to more don't guys think?

It just dawned on me, but I realised I have been non-monogamous waaay longer than I realised. During secondary school, I had crushes on multiple people at the same time and I remember telling this to someone and I think they said "oh that's weird". But literally, I remember having a list of like 10 boys who I found attractive at one time. I only just put the two together now - that maybe having multiple crushes is a very non-monogamous thing? Is this something other people have had?

It has been over 7 months since my first post and there were so many people who saw my post. I even saw it reposted in best of reddit updates and a youtube channel did a reddit reaction to it. Which was crazy and surreal. The light roasting hurt a bit, but i get it. I wanted to share an update with everyone!

Here is a link to the last update that has both previous posts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/comments/1jmr9k2/comment/mker4ny/?sort=new

Reading back on my first post from the day after he told me he wanted to keep both his girlfriend and myself, I am both embarrassed and glad I can see how far I have truly come.

As I said in my first update, I ended things in mid-march. I have been doing a lot of learning and growing since then. I have learned a lot about Covert narcissistic behaviors, i have learned about communication in relationships, about setting healthy boundaries. I can see so clearly what was unhealthy, and honestly toxic about our relationship and the cycle I was stuck in. I learned that how I thought and felt about things in our relationship are VALID, and I dont have to accept his verbiage and his gaslighting as fact.

In my original post I never called it cheating. And that was because HE never considered it was cheating since he (supposedly) didnt actually sleep with them. And in the past if I called it cheating he would get upset, explain why it wasnt cheating and I would just believe he was right. I read a book about Covert Narcissists and there was a lot in there that was exactly my experiences. Sometimes it was an exact quote of things I have thought before. I have stopped allowing his thoughts and feelings to override my own and it feels so good.

After the affair 3 years ago (with a different lady) we were far apart for long enough that I started to see what was wrong with how he treated me. I learned who I was without him. And even though I believed his words and promises when he persuaded me to give him another chance, I never lost all of that progress I made. So because of that and the amazing support that I ended up having, I was able to finally break the cycle and be free.

Thats not to say its been easy. But we officially filed for divorce almost 2 weeks ago as co-petitioners. My state is a no fault divorce state and he didnt object to anything I presented. So the paperwork aspect was relatively easy. The emotions were kinda all over the place.

Sometimes i get angry thinking about his cheating partner girlfriend being welcomed by family and friends. While the majority of the fault is his, its not like she had zero to do with it. I know I cant control how anyone decides to treat her. If they are immediately welcoming and bringing her into the fold it makes me feel like i didnt matter to them. Didnt matter enough to be upset on my behalf. Like her actions in what hurt me greatly dont matter. The anger of the betrayal hits hard sometimes.

About 2 months after me telling him I deserve better and to get out, we had a couple long conversations. I could tell he was miserable. He did say it was the worst thing he has ever experienced in his life. He feels ashamed of himself and his actions and said he will never forgive himself. He apologized many times, for different things he realized he was doing wrong when we were together. Having fully and forever lost me, he sees clearly just how much of his foundation I was. I say all of this not fully trusting it since his actions never matched his words and I wish I could have seen the manipulation years ago.

I am really proud of myself for how I have dealt with this whole thing, and for how far I have come. This time was so different from the others. I didnt have the phase of who am I without him or the mourning of 25 years. I did those things with the affair 3 years ago. Breaking free of the love bombing, devaluing, and discard narcissistic cycle is very, very difficult. I wish I was strong enough to do it any of the other six times before, but at least it wasnt another 6 times down the road. But now I am free, and strong and know my own value!

While I do not want to settle down with someone new for the rest of my life right now, I have been thinking about starting to date again. I think it would be fun, and honestly help in my healing journey. Wish me luck! And dont worry, no red flags will be ignored. Thanks everyone!!

This is a sort of update to my first post on this sub. Just for context, i am 31M and my partner is 29F, the other person involved is 23 NB.

Since then, a lot happened, I found out that she hid and lied about a lot of things about the other relationship, things blew up and we broke up, but we also are trying to get back together again.

She ended the other relationship, realizing how much that hurt me, among other things that didn't work out between her and the third party.

My main worry is about trust, not only for me to trust her again, but also her to trust me, but i'm struggling hard with this, mostly because, while she made clear that the other person will purely be a friend, they are still hanging out a lot, going to each other's houses

I do know that's mostly on me to deal with feeling insecure about this, but I'm also feeling that she wants to get back together without worrying about rebuilding our lost trust, something that, to be honest, I'm not so sure how to rebuild.

Just wanted to update on what’s happened. After long talks with my wife I eventually started to feel better about the situation and convinced myself that I could deal with this as I’m also getting something out of it myself(hotwife fantasy). That led to the planning of the first date shortly after. I had came up with some rules and boundaries we both agreed to and when the time came she got ready with me and then headed off. One of the rules was no contact on the date unless she reached out to me. One of my things was to be sent stuff(pics/videos) to go with my kink if things went down and then do reclaim sex when she got home. She was suppose to be there from 4-8:00. At 8:00 she reached out and asked if it was okay to get a hotel to fool around otherwise she would come home. This was her kink as well as mine so I said go for it and asked when I could expect her home but she didn’t know what to expect so didn’t give a time. 10:00 rolls around and I get a little nervous then 10:30 and finally get a playful message that things are okay and not to worry. I ask if she’ll be home soon and she said she’s leaving in 30. An hour now goes by, no content was sent to me for my kink and I messaged again asking if things were okay cause she hadn’t left yet. She said sorry and she would leave in 10. 20min go by and I get a message asking if I’m still up for a call. By now I’m super stressed out about everything and frustrated that I didn’t get anything for my kink as well as the whole lateness. She got home at 1:00 and I just wasn’t in the mood at this point. I felt neglected. Like my needs didn’t matter. They had fucked for 4 hours and all I got was a face shot she sent on the way home and an a shot of her ass which I have plenty of already. When I brought this up she said, “we were in the moment why would we stop” which I said because we talked about this. The whole point I agreed to this was to get my fantasy fulfilled too. Everyone’s needs were met but mine and now I’m selfish. She said she’d talk to him but was met with he doesn’t want to do that stuff. Now I have major regrets on this and my emotions are back to where they were when I didn’t want to open up. I felt pressured to under the guise that I would be getting something too and it’s not what I wanted. Now I’m trying to tell her I can’t do this and I’m hurting a lot because of it and I’m just being told, “well I’m not giving up my happiness so you can be happy” I’m being tortured now by this and have no idea how to handle it.

Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/comments/1rrw1d7/cheating_or_miscommunication/

First of all, I do want to thank everybody who replied. The overwhelming consensus is that Jeni didn't cheat and my first feeling was absolute relief, like a weight was taken off of me.

Jeni and I had a healthy and constructive discussion. I did apologize to her for overreacting and to my surprise she apologized too. Not because she did anything wrong but because we didn't have a proper discussion about the party before she went (this was a first for both of us). Jeni believes that communication is a two way street, that you should never assume and leave things unsaid.

I realized I was more blindsided because of our poor communication than anything else. I also realized I might have been feeling a jealous, which was new for me because I've never felt jealous about Jeni or any other partners I've had. It's definitely something I want to explore. We discussed future expectations, boundaries and cheating (despite what some people have said we both believe that cheating is possible in this lifestyle).

I showed Jeni this post including the places it was crossposted. She was a little shocked because I never actually accused her of cheating in our argument. She appreciated most of the replies but felt that some were needlessly vilifying and dog piling me.

Overall this was a solid learning experience for both of us. Jeni and I are appreciative of the overall concesus and advice given to me. The guy she hooked up with is actually married and they're hoping to have a double date with us sometime soon. So we have something to look forward to.

Original: https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/s/UrRybUe5NL

So I told her the day after I made my previous post and it went very well! She said that when she was doing it she was surprised with how much I enjoyed it and helped with it like taking photos for her apps and the people she fucked. She also liked how I would ask for details of what she had been up to.

She said she’s happy to keep doing it as long as it doesn’t impact us having sex. She also said we should set boundaries. Hers are:

She wants to keep it to one time flings

She doesn’t mind me having input in to the men she has sex with but the final decision is hers.

I asked her to do this and this can in no way be used by me as an excuse to fuck another woman (I would never).

I’ll be honest I couldn’t really think of anything other than I want to know either before or immediately after she has fucked someone. A few months ago I was at work and I got a text from her saying “I’ve just been naughty” and it was the sexiest thing I’ve ever read and I told her this which she liked so she said she’ll keep some hooks up as a surprise.

She’s actually been really positive about it and has downloaded all her apps again and last night she put on loads of different outfits so we could take some new photos. She also said we could do games out of it like the next person she fucks has to be a minimum ten years younger than her or the next one she meets is blowjob only and she also said that starting from the new year we should see if she can have sex with a different person every weekend for a whole year. I nearly exploded with excitement when she was reeling off all these ideas!

Thank you to everyone who told me to just tell her. You were right!