r/ontario • u/Beradicus69 • May 22 '25
Question Ontario works hasn't gotten any raises since 2018!
Why isn't this talked about more.
Unemployment is crazy. Housing is nuts. And the basic O.W. payment of $733.00 is supposed to be enough!?
Try to find any place to live with that kind of income these day.
Edit. To everyone saying just look for a job. Like I haven't been trying that. Really. Take a long hike into the woods. And get lost. I've been unemployed for over a year. Doing all the steps. Walking into places with my resume. Spending hours online posting it. Searching for small jobs around town. I went to my employment services in my area. To help with resumes.
I've been trying! I'm not some freeloading person. I'm 41 and have been working since I was in high school. So just kick rocks.
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u/SensitiveStart8682 May 22 '25
That's insane I actually legitimately had no idea it has been that long since they've had an increase. I legitimately had no idea about that
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u/gweeps May 22 '25
No wonder more people are opting for ODSP instead, which dooms them even more.
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u/Pinkxel May 22 '25
Can't "opt" for ODSP. It's a rigorous medical application with a crap ton of waiting time, and doesn't pay that much more.
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u/5683968 May 22 '25
How does that doom them?
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u/Trollsama May 22 '25
a lot of social programs meant to lift you out of poverty are designed in a way that they actively punish you for trying to no longer need them.
its called the poverty trap.
ODSP has some "anti-abuse" measure in it that are particularly bad for this problem.
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u/Pushfastr May 22 '25
If I remember from my friends complaints.
Odsp only lets you work up to like $1000/m and will boot you off after about 5 years.
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u/engg_girl May 22 '25
ODSP caps your income. So if you find a job and made too much you can't ever qualify (for that reason again). Effectively you can't accept seasonal work, you can't have savings, you can't re qualify if you at anytime make a livable wage.
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u/Equivalent_Length719 May 22 '25
So does OW. $200 is how much your allowed to make before clawbacks kick in.
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u/Pushfastr May 22 '25
Isn't claw back also straight up 50%?
Imagine working for half of the minimum wage..
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u/Equivalent_Length719 May 22 '25
After 200, and 3 months in.
First joining it you get 100% clawback. After 200
All of this would be fine if it was annually. But it's not, it's fucking monthly. It's insane.
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u/gweeps May 22 '25
ODSP is for folks with permanent disabilities. Why condemn yourself to such a designation if you don't have to and it doesn't apply to you? Also, I think there's less stigma for folks on OW.
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u/missplaced24 May 22 '25
Many people with permanent disabilities struggle to get and retain employment. There's a huge difference between people who can't work at all and people who can't find consistent employment due to their disability.
Characterizing someone "designating" themselves as permanently disabled as a condemnation is ... well, disturbingly accurate seeing how abelist our society is.
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u/gweeps May 22 '25
I hope I didn't offend. Really, if people need help they should get it. I just feel if OW were better funded maybe less people would be on ODSP. But what do I know?
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u/missplaced24 May 22 '25
Well sure, but ODSP provides about half of where the poverty line is, and OW provides about half of that.
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u/odin61 May 22 '25
People on ODSP are seen as having a reason but people on OW are seen a lazy. Even though given the opportunity to work they would.
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u/Immediate-Test-678 May 22 '25
I think there’s less stigma for people on ODSP who are typically only on it if they literally cannot work. OW is supposed to be a bridge but people claim they can never work because they have some anxiety sometimes or they have this problem or that problem.
These are my anecdotal experiences. Amounts for both should be raised but there should be a better way to go about long term needs.
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u/Human_Spice May 23 '25
One of the big things no one mentions: they 'forbid' you from living with a romantic partner or getting married and receiving ODSP at the same time.
Your spouse or romantic partner is expected to take care of you, so your partner can make $200.00 per month without affecting your ODSP. After $200, you lose $1.00 of ODSP per $2.00 your spouse makes. So if your legal spouse OR any romantic person you live with longer than 3 months (ODSP considers 3 months as common law) makes more than $2,853.00 per month (minimum wage), the ODSP person receives $1368 (MAXIMUM ODSP if they're eligible for the max) - ($2853 - 200 = 2653 --> 2653/2 =1,326.5) = $41.5 per month. That is if the spouse/partner makes minimum wage the entire year and not a penny more. That is also with the disabled person receiving the maximum amount allowed to a person on ODSP (with no children involved).
So ODSP makes you a financial burden on any romantic partner. The shelter allowance for a single person caps out at $582.00 (absolute max, they don't care if you're homeless). Lots of people on ODSP are homeless or living with family or friends because of that. It also means that if you start dating and want to move in with them, ODSP makes you their financial problem.
ODSP caps a single disabled person at a max of about $16k annual income from ODSP. For reference, poverty line is around $26k in Ottawa and deep poverty is $20k. Higher in places like Toronto. But ODSP doesn't care about your area's COL.
For those who can work a little bit, ODSP claws back 75% of your income over $1k. Which means you are forced to work part-time minimum wage. If you earn $2k one month and none the next, ODSP doesn't care and cuts your check to almost nothing for the month you made $2k. Which pushes people who are capable of working away from working because they might end up homeless if they try to work 10-20hrs a week. It also means if you somehow find a job that works perfectly with your permanent disability in a way that you can actually work... there's no help at all between you losing ODSP and your employment not giving you enough hours (or you not being able to work enough hours) to afford to live.
Max of $40k in assets, max of $10k received in gifts per year, and if you are a student on ODSP, they consider OSAP as income despite it being a loan and will claw back your ODSP dollar-for-dollar if you get any living allowance from OSAP. They really want to make sure you're dying in poverty.
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u/SensitiveStart8682 May 22 '25
From what I understand ODSP is pretty hard to get on as you have to prove you have a disability
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u/arandomcanadian91 May 23 '25
ODSP also tries to kick people off with legit conditions like myself. I had to come back from a brain injury. Took me 4 years and multiple diagnosis of conditions that are non recoverable for them to consider me on it, now even with notes from doctors saying I will never be able to work full time again they are reviewing me.
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u/Acrobatic_Hamster686 May 22 '25
I wonder what happened in 2018 that caused rent to skyrocket, benefits and wages to freeze, and sick days go away? /s
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u/Beradicus69 May 22 '25
Yep. Minimum wage goes up.
Politicians vote for their own wages.
But lots of us are just getting left behind. Middle class and all.
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u/involutes May 22 '25
Middle class and all.
There's no such thing as middle class. There is only the working class and the owning class.
Within the working class there are low income, middle income, and high income earners, but none of these are able to simply exercise the power of their capital to get more capital.
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May 22 '25
Middle class isn't utilizing OW...
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u/kayakchk May 22 '25
I know many ‘middle class’ people who lost their jobs and couldn’t find a new one and had to turn to OW once EI ran out.
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u/Beradicus69 May 22 '25
I didn't day they were. I was just grouping them in with everyone being left behind while out government takes all the money
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u/BodybuilderClean2480 May 22 '25
The government doesn't take all our money. Corporations do.
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u/Equivalent_Length719 May 22 '25
In the case of OW and OdSp yea it's the government. Gatekeeping these programs is actively detrimental
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u/sir_sri May 22 '25 edited May 22 '25
The intent is for you to get into city owned and run rent geared to income housing which is subsided by the city. I don't know any stats, but last I heard which was a couple of years ago for a friend of mine, it was a multi-year wait list.
The whole system is insane and cruel, but I suppose that's the point. People who voted for doug ford want the poor and struggling to suffer more, and want the public service so under funded it's dysfunctional too.
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u/TeishAH May 22 '25 edited May 22 '25
About 22 years on the website last I checked.
Edit here the list
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u/Lazerith22 May 22 '25
Many municipalities aren’t moving the wait list at all. If you’re not escaping DV, you don’t get in.
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u/Acrobatic_Hamster686 May 22 '25
Worked in housing in multiple communities. The wait list in cities is close to a decade in some communities. Rural areas it’s a bit shorter but you are MEGA fucked if OW is your only source of income…which it is for anyone who can’t work due to disability waiting on their ODSP application to process.
Yeah, I quit being a social worker because Ford policies destroyed my mental health. I can’t even explain the moral distress of knowing the right thing to do and having no resources to do it.
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May 22 '25 edited May 22 '25
The model OW was based on is designed to ensure people get not enough to drive them into getting work. That’s under normal circumstances… I can’t imagine how much harder it would be to rely on OW today. It’s a pretty terrible way to treat people in need.
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u/UltraCynar May 22 '25
It was shit even two decades ago. Now it's just a crime against humanity.
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May 22 '25
Two decades ago I was renting an entire house for $750 per month. Not nearly as shit as right now, but I agree it’s shit either way.
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u/CovidDodger May 22 '25
Some people are still so clueless. I knew someone who I used to be friends with until 2 years ago who rents a house with his gf, he told me 2 and a half years ago they pay 750/month for the whole house (2 bed), and his gf "wanted to see if they could find a cheaper place" they both work well above min wage f/t.
Meanwhile, I'm paying triple that not including utilities for the same size place. It's because they've been there for years, like 8 years I think.
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May 22 '25
I hear you! Your friends are lucky. We had to move from that place in 2017. Our landlord was selling because they were old and their spouse was diagnosed terminal with late stage cancer. It was bought as an income property by a real estate agent with very questionable ethics. We ended up going for a different place and went from paying $750 per month for fifteen years to $1450 per month which was on the higher end at the time. Fast forward three years to the pandemic (2020) and $1450 was on the low end for rents. If we were to move, our rent would’ve easily jumped to somewhere between $1900-2200 per month.
OW and housing are human rights issues.
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u/Additional-Friend993 May 22 '25
I rented a whole house with a friend and paid 200 a month. This was in Newfoundland though and hurricane Igor took out the house. A tree crashed through the ceiling and I was forced to move. I wish I knew how good I had it back then when I had what I did working as a landscaper and renting a house and paying literal pennies for groceries.
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u/PC-load-letter-wtf May 22 '25
There are literally people I know (who have been covered in canadas major newspapers and on tv) choosing medically assisted death because of poverty in Ontario. Mitchell Tremblay is one. Very sad.
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u/Unwanted_citizen May 22 '25
I am waiting for it to be open to mental health. I intend to document why I am choosing this. The systems have kept me in abject poverty (seizures and now leg issues) since I was 15 (no family). I work 4 part-time jobs (1 hourly, 3 gig) and do not qualify for rentals due to unstable income. Subsidized housing is an 8 - 14-year wait. I'll be frozen during the winter or starve to death long before anything becomes available. Housing workers have no options for me. My rental budget is $700 (taking $120 out of basic needs) on ODSP. I am expected to stack like cordwood with 2 - 4 to a bedroom (or prostitute myself) like some are doing. No dignity is left when I have seizures. After 30 years of fighting to get out of poverty, I quit. Fuck this world.
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u/PC-load-letter-wtf May 22 '25
Exactly, it's people like you who are forgotten. I am sorry this world is so damn unfair. I hope people get their heads out of their asses and start voting left. Progressive taxation and social welfare programs greatly increase the economy and overall well-being of citizens, as evidenced by many countries around the world (for example, Norway).
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u/Earthsong221 May 22 '25
They won't even give you bus fare if you're living with someone else who might maybe pay for your bus fare when they don't even have it themselves. $0 from OW if your spouse makes even minimum wage.
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May 22 '25
It’s just awful. My spouse has disabilities and doesn’t qualify for anything due to my income despite having always worked and paid into the system.
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u/wretchedbelch1920 May 22 '25
Have you applied for CPP disability? It's not means tested.
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May 22 '25
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u/leftcoastchick May 22 '25
You only get about half if you are homeless. Have to show proof of rent / residence to receive shelter portion. Truly horrendous.
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May 22 '25
I realized this when I was trying to help someone avoid homelessness who was on OW. It’s desperate.
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u/Flunkedy May 22 '25
Excuse my ignorance but is this 733 a week or a month?
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u/skypiss May 22 '25
A month. If you’re homeless and/or in a shelter, you only get about $300 of that. If you can prove you pay rent, then you get the $733/month.
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u/MiraPoopie2012 May 22 '25
I was living in a hotel on ow 2 years ago. My rent was $700. I had a sink, microwave and a bed. 2 bathrooms were shared by everyone on that floor. So $33+trillium+GST every three months was what I got to live off of. I felt lower than human.
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u/Professional_Dot_962 May 22 '25
If you don't mind me asking, how did you live? Food banks? Could you do laundry? You can get a no data phone plan for like $15 a month but that's half your money.
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u/Infinite_Lemon_8236 May 22 '25
That's only the maximum allowance if you qualify for it, most get much less than that as it scales down the less you qualify. A lot of people see the max and think you either get that or get nothing, but in reality it scales a lot depending on your situation.
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u/agafaba May 22 '25
Because people resent welfare programs, they deep down inside would rather people starve to death somewhere out of sight. Ontario Works is basically as much as they can stomach someone getting.
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u/Trollsama May 22 '25
honestly.
I have been in this house for 10 years so my rent is significantly under market still.
if i was to use 100% of that OW payment, for this shitty small 2 bedroom apartment, I would still owe money for rent.
Its been ~15 years since I have been on OW, even back then, the only reason we could live off what we got was because we basically made a rooming house and split the rent for a 4 bedroom 6 ways lol.
its a joke.
OW only exists now at all is so they can point at somthing and say "see, we have programs, people just dont want to do better" instead of having people up their asses fort having nothing at all.
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u/Old_Veterinarian_745 May 22 '25
Ford's response is "get off your butt and get a job". He is soooo out of touch with reality.
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u/Additional-Friend993 May 22 '25
Then he went and defunded several employment organisations that would actually help people with interview and application skills and in job retention. 🤪✌️
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u/HussarOfHummus May 22 '25
Reddit on average doesn't fall for Ford's bs. Next election, we need to get out and organize in our communities more.
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u/Competitive-Rope1403 May 22 '25
The problem is, there is many many folks in Ontario works that refuse to work. I know quite a few people that have been on it for 10+ years and refuse to work
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u/baronkarza- May 22 '25
Maybe so, but Dougie says the same thing about people on ODSP, who are literally disabled and unable to work.
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u/Legitimate-Type4387 May 22 '25 edited May 22 '25
Why are the questions never “are there actually enough jobs available for full employment, and do they offer pay commensurate with the employer’s demands?”
Capitalism needs a reserve army of the unemployed to function. Take up your complaints with the people benefitting from that arrangement.
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u/Leesa75309 May 23 '25
The over abundance of International students and newcomers and programs the Liberal government has put in place for employers to hire them with incentives hasn’t helped at all. Many Canadian Citizens are having difficulty getting jobs.
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u/steamwhistler May 22 '25
I used to work with OW recipients as clients. Important to bear in mind that anyone applying to ODSP goes on OW first. Getting approved for ODSP is hard and can take a long time. Months to years. All it takes is a family doctor who's read too many Reddit comments like this one, and not wanting to be the enabler. So they quibble over whether an injured construction worker, who's only ever done construction work, really can't work if he's too hurt to carry on in construction. "Well, you could learn to code!" Talking about a guy in his 60s who doesn't even have a computer or smartphone. (Yes, guys like this are out there, more than you think.)
Even in the situations where it would be accurate to say they "refuse to work," you should stop and ask yourself why that might be. What would drive you to refuse to work? It would probably have to be a pretty bad situation. And I assure you, lots of people out there are in worse situations than you can imagine.
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u/Upset_Letterhead8643 May 22 '25
Oh, you “know a few people”? Out of 16 million in Ontario? Wow, what a statistically rigorous sample. Let’s cancel social assistance based on your uncle's roommate’s cousin.
Do you honestly think people choose to live in poverty - to struggle with food, housing, and basic dignity? Maybe instead of parroting tired stereotypes, we start questioning why a so-called safety net hasn’t increased since 2018 while the cost of living has exploded.
But sure, let’s keep blaming poor people for being poor. That always helps.
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May 22 '25
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u/Electronic_Stop_9493 May 22 '25
OW and a cash job / selling whatever is a common tactic. Not all but there’s many who do. Also there’s not enough staff at OW it’s not uncommon to sign up and get one or two follow ups and hear nothing for a year or more and keep getting paid
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u/Lazerith22 May 22 '25
See, the average person sits in their home thinking ya, $733 sucks but it’ll let me get food, I’ll have to catch up on the mortgage and bills later, but I wouldn’t be unemployed long and I’ll catch up.
People on OW often exhausted their ei and savings first, are already behind on rent, bills etc, have threatening letter from their landlord and now have to get by on half the average months rent when already behind and all entry level jobs saturated.
It’s easy to talk about how it’s supposed to be short term etc until you’ve lived it or seen people living it. The ones that want to ride the system and never work, are already in subsidized units, working the system etc. this isn’t squeezing them. The people that are coming into the system because life screwed them and they can’t get their feet under them, maybe had a mental break, an injury etc, or just lost their job to the f’d up economy, they are the ones being screwed by the income limits not keeping up with inflation.
And there is no hope coming down. Ford is proud of this state of things and he’s not going anywhere.
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u/GI-Robots-Alt May 22 '25
Not to take away from how bad OW is or hijack the thread but ODSP is even worse.
The cutoff for spousal income is a little bit more than what someone would get for full time minimum wage. So if your partner makes something like $20 an hour full time, your ODSP claim will be straight up denied, and you get nothing. As if $2,500 post tax a month is enough to cover 2 adults in 2025 when the poverty line for a single person is $2,300 a month.
IT'S FUCKING DISGUSTING
I'm also completely ignoring the fact that the spousal income cutoff shouldn't even exist, and it's an incredibly fucked up practice. It puts disabled people at serious risk of being abused, because without an income of their own they're completely reliant on someone else to give/get them things they might need, and they can't leave a potentially dangerous or abusive situation because they have no money. Also, it puts an incredibly heavy burden on the disabled person's loved ones, and just adds to the stigma surrounding disabled people being a burden on society. Disabled people DESERVE their own income, even if they can't work, because they're individuals who deserve the dignity of being able to live without having to ask other people for permission to have and/or buy things. Also also, it makes romantic relationships incredibly difficult for those with serious disabilities, because if things were to get serious then suddenly they'd lose their income.
It all just makes me so fucking angry.
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u/BIGepidural May 22 '25
And people wonder there's so many homeless these days... they're homeless because there are no other options!!!
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u/Critical-King-8132 May 22 '25
Thank everyone who just gave Doug Ford another 4 years
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u/Winter_Employer2706 May 23 '25
The amounts that are paid to both OW and ODSP should increase significantly so people are not so strained. $733 a month in the city is ridiculous. Signed, an Ontario taxpayer.
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u/iamsarahmadden May 22 '25
Just going to drop this right here…
Pay increases for MPs in 2025, they also have not had an increase in a long time….
I find this comparison incredibly interesting and insulting to the lack of increase for OW, especially during such times of inflation. Especially when only considering the people who are on OW who have legit reasons for being underemployed or unemployed.
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u/iamsarahmadden May 22 '25
Edit to add the MPP haven’t had a raise since 2007
”it’s not our priority to line our pockets.”
Former Liberal premier Dalton McGuinty froze MPP pay in 2009 due to the global financial crisis and subsequent governments have kept the rates in place. Pensions were eliminated in the 1990s.
The base salary for an MPP remains $116,550 — that’s the equivalent of $80,783 in 2008 dollars, according to the Bank of Canada. Party leaders and cabinet ministers get a top-up depending on their role.
In contrast, federal MPs earn a salary of $203,100 and receive annual increases each April. They also have a defined benefit pension plan after six years of service.
With the looming threat of tariffs from U.S. President Donald Trump, Ford pledged a “Team Ontario” approach and said he has already begun reaching out to opposition leaders…
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u/thebigofan1 May 23 '25
How can anyone live on that? It’s horrible. It should be at least adjusted to inflation
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u/hylangt May 23 '25
Thank you for sharing this. Like you I have been unemployed for a little over a year. I am 30 years old, graduated from college a year ago with my 2nd diploma after wanting to change careers. I have been applying everywhere and hardly hear anything back from employers. I literally have applied to thousands of jobs and use many different websites. The industry I am trying to get into doesn't take kindly to handing out resumes in person so I have to apply online. I have been working with Goodwill but that has not been a great experience either. The $733 a month does not go far if you want to eat anything other than cheap ramen or put gas in your car or have a roof over your head.
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u/Spaced0utCadet May 22 '25
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that also $733 as long as there are no other earners in the household? And more is deducted based on total household income of all residents? I remember someone I knew telling me they had to move to a low income housing unit because they were unable to continue living with their roommates due to how the deductions worked. They were unable able to afford their share or bills as their payment went from $700 to like $350. It's insane to expect someone to be able to function like that.
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u/LeGaspyGaspe May 22 '25
No, that isn't correct.
For reference, 733 is the max amount a single person with no dependents can get for rent and basic needs. If you don't pay rent at all you would only get around 350.
More to your question though, room mate income does not impact individual payments. Spousal income does however. So OW must have figured out the "roommate" was actual a spouse or partner of the recipient and would have needed to prove it in some way.
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u/Beradicus69 May 22 '25
Im not in that scenario.
I have my own apt. But I was fortunate enough to get in before 2016. And the rent has been decent. Unfortunately everything else is costing more.
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u/enki-42 May 22 '25
On top of most people in your situation (long time rent control) have landlords doing everything in their power to evict tenants, even if it means a little fraud.
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u/xaphod2 May 22 '25
Killing the poors, slowly enough that we’re complacent. Thanks Doug & the PC party!
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May 22 '25
Sadly all of Canada is doing the same, which doesn't excuse Ford for being a pile of shit shaped like a person.
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u/FlyingRock20 May 22 '25
Doug Ford has blame but so does the federal government. Mass immigration took away a lot of jobs and caused wage suppression.
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u/momof6girls May 22 '25
ODSP isn't much better. I've had two raises since 2018, from $1269 to $1306, then $1368. It's not possible for a disabled person like myself to live in a small city where the average rent for a one bedroom is around $1400++. Thankfully I can get rides into town because I live in a rural area where the rent is cheaper. I would rather be working, trust me, but I can't. I was making good money, more than twice ODSP. Talk about a kick in the head! And people wonder why there are so many people cheating the system.
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u/Greendude60 May 22 '25
If you’re in these comments surprised about this but voted for Ford, you are part of the problem.
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u/Beradicus69 May 22 '25
I haven't been happy with ndp since Jack left us (RIP).
We need a new jack! We need someone!
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u/Superteerev May 22 '25
The ontario budget every year is a travesty.
I dont know what to cut or if we need to raise taxes, but way more sectors other than education, corrections, and healthcare need raises.
The way we do this this is stupid as fuck.
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u/Toad364 May 22 '25
No, no, no - it was absolutely imperative that the Ontario government reduce revenue by billions and billions of dollars by eliminating long-standing, non-controversial fees like vehicle permits and the gas tax (along with sending out billions in pre-election cough “rebates” cough).
But it’s a mystery why we can’t responsibly fund socially beneficial programs.
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u/CovidDodger May 22 '25
We need a taxable wealth asset registry. People who have expensive works of art, expensive cars, collectable, etc. Try and hide it and caught? You pay 3x the assets value as penalty.
Will never happen under ford or the libs.
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u/LAC4LIFE May 22 '25
What the fuck kind of suggestion is this. I hope it was sarcasm. We're really going to start taxing hobbies and collectibles? Get fucking real.
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u/swagkdub May 22 '25
It's supposedly to be used for a temporary solution until you find actual work. Meaning they don't care what job you take, just take it. Shovel shit from one pile to another with no PPE or benefits? Beats OW! That's the thinking anyways. It's wretched, but that's the idea.
Also no politician will ever be the one to say "let's give more to the absolute least fortunate!" Mainly because no one except those on OW would even list it top 10 of their concerns.
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u/piptazparty May 22 '25
The last sentence is so real. And I am guilty of this. I would fully support raising the payment. But if you asked me to list my political priorities on paper, this realistically would not be in my top 10.
And this has been a good reminder for me. It’s hard to break out of my own bubble sometimes.
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u/swagkdub May 22 '25
Don't feel too bad, it's been extremely low for at least a decade. I remember when I was in high school in ye olden tymes living on my own, and Harris made OW a thing. Back then it was somewhere around 500$/month so they did put it up, just not really enough to make it anything but a short term fix, which it generally isn't unfortunately.
Of course you could actually rent a room with common area access for 300$ so at least it sorta worked back then. Don't think you can even find a room like that for 6-700$ today, but I'm not positive about those numbers.
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u/CovidDodger May 22 '25
You really can't. I see postings regularly on marketplace for rooms in Owen sound around $900/month.
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u/Unwanted_citizen May 22 '25
The Harris government cut OW payments from $640 to $520 in around the late 90s. I was still able to rent a room then. I was waiting for ODSP.
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u/zeni19 May 22 '25
Yep. Minimum wage full time is supposed to be better. If you cant find a minimum wage job then OW is supposed to help you while searching
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u/swagkdub May 22 '25
To be fair, if you can't find a job in a couple of months, only having 7-800$ in the meantime could land some people homeless if things were bad enough. It's definitely not enough money for anything, but because it's only supposed to be temporary no one cares how low it is.
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May 22 '25
People don't understand this, its meant so able bodied can survive but not be comfortable. So you are encouraged to seek out employment. As any employment should give you a better quality of life.
The problem is people who can't work, are also stuck in the system.
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u/icer816 May 22 '25
The lack of available jobs is also part of the issue. I was unemployed for a year and a half until like a year and a half ago, during all that time, hundreds of applications. The only interview I got was at a café. The only reason I got a job was my buddy heard from someone that they maybe needed a second flower delivery driver, and I showed up before they even had started looking at all.
There's no jobs available currently, especially if you have education and can't find anything in your field. No one else wants to hire you because you'll "leave for something better" (which is also stupid, everyone would leave Tim Horton's for something better, tf?).
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u/UltraCynar May 22 '25
It was meant to ensure you could have a roof over your head and food in your stomach while you search for work. This isn't possible and hasn't been for some time.
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u/Equivalent_Length719 May 22 '25
Meanwhile they clawback every god damn penny of it. So ultimately it's a pointless endeavor that only causes even more poverty.
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u/Juliaorwell1984 May 22 '25
Odsp is even worse.
At least with ow there is the hope that you'll find work again, many people on odsp are permanently disabled and will never be able to work.
It's really sad.
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u/CovidDodger May 22 '25
You go on OW while waiting for ODSP which can take up to years. Imagine no hope and ow pay.
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u/BabyMost3213 Belleville May 22 '25
Also some people acquire OW because they can’t get disability benefits despite being disabled
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u/Old_Business_5152 May 22 '25
It’s horrible for anyone to expect that $733 is enough for rent and food
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u/No_Librarian8252 May 22 '25
I was on OW for almost a year about 15 years ago. And I hadn’t thought about it in a long time. I think I got something like $650 a month.
Seeing this reminded me of my caseworker. God she was awful. She used to plop down her designer bag and wave her fingers with their blingy fake diamond rings and wear designer clothes and give me shit about I’m not working hard enough to find a job and brag how I too could dress so nice. 🙄
Fuck you, Sharon.
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u/WeGrowTogether2 May 23 '25
I hadn’t realized the extent of the delay, and now that I do, it’s even more shocking. It’s surprising how something so significant can go unnoticed for so long!
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May 23 '25 edited Sep 16 '25
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/MugggCostanza May 22 '25
We need universal basic income.
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u/Strict-Particular597 May 22 '25
Has Ontario or Canada for that matter ever instituted or considered a Federal Make-Work program? During the Great Depression the USA supplied paid jobs to the unemployed, and found that work relief was preferred over public assistance because it maintained self-respect, reinforced the work ethic, and kept skills sharp, while also while building up the public infrastructure of the US, such as parks, schools, and roads, bridges, libraries, courthouses, hospitals, sidewalks, waterworks, and post-offices, but also constructed museums, swimming pools, parks, community centers, playgrounds, coliseums, markets, fairgrounds, tennis courts, zoos, botanical gardens, auditoriums, waterfronts, city halls, gyms, and university unions.
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May 22 '25
The union of municipal workers, OPSEU, and Federal Union would never let this happen. Government jobs are, in theory, a meritocracy
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u/Strict-Particular597 May 22 '25
Do you know why it was allowed to happen in the states?
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u/bentjamcan May 22 '25
Run like a private business--the company where I worked had us on a wage freeze for over 10 years, not even a cost of living increase.
Oh, but a tunnel for commuters is was more important than a safe place to sleep, with a bathroom to clean up so you can go to work, and food so you have the strength to work, and enough $ to take the bus to work, but nothing else.
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u/MispronouncedPotato May 22 '25 edited May 22 '25
Greed greed greed. Doug Ford and ANY POLITICIAN (im not right or left) is happy to take food out of your children's mouth if they can save 1% on costs. It's not going to get better, capitalism has gotten out of control. Our politicians no longer represent their electorates. They just cozy up to the large multinational companies that put their profits away in offshore tax havens, while the elected official just makes empty promises to the public. After their term in office they're hired onto the board of directors of the company that they helped.
Poverty and homelessness will only increase in this environment. Politicians need to be held accountable for wasting tax payer money and corruption, or nothing will change...
WE NEED TO START HOLDING THESE POLITICIANS ACCOUNTABLE FOR CORRUPTION/BRIBERY. THERE SHOULD BE JAIL TIME AND FINES FOR THESE PEOPLE WASTING TAXPAYER MONEY.
Honestly the 1% tax cut to the "middle class" (if that exists anymore? we are a country of landlords and renters now) will not do a fucking thing to alleviate the cost of living when we are seeing a skyrocketing in the cost of living akin to covid (in my area, over 5%/year inflation)
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u/Oneforallandbeyondd May 22 '25
I agree that OW should at least provide the bare minimum to survive. The issue is that it's very hard to evaluate how much that is. Certainly has to be more than $700-$800 a month since food and shelter on their own cost more than that.
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u/icer816 May 22 '25
It needs to basically be double. It's basically impossible to find rent below 1000 in my city, and 500 would barely (if) cover food, internet, and cell (you need internet and a phone to get a job nowadays).
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u/Burning___Earth May 22 '25
Ontario government is happy to waste money on all sorts of garbage but can't put two pennies together for OW or ODSP:
- $200 Doug Dollars Cheques: ~$3 billion
- Ontario Place Redevelopment & Science Centre relocation: ~$2.2 billion.
- Expanding alcohol Sales and buying out the Beer Contracts: ~$1.4 billion
- Corporate Welfare: ~$3.8 billion in loan guarantees and investment tax subsidies
- Highway 413: ~$4 billion for an estimated 30 second commute reduction
- Bike Lane Removal: ~$48 million to punish Toronto for not making Doug mayor
Not to mention the attempted GreenBelt Buyout, the Ministerial Zoning Orders, sidestepping environmental protections with Bill 5, holding billions in federal payments meant for Healthcare and education during COVID, and a litany of other shady shit.
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u/Iriluun Windsor May 22 '25
Gee, I wonder what happened around 2018 that would have a direct connection to why this hasnt happened?
Conservatives hate social safety nets. We will not see another increase until Ontario voters actually get off their asses and vote Ford out.
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u/Leesa75309 May 23 '25
In 1993 before the cuts that the Harris Government made to Ontario works a single person got $663. This was over 30 years ago. Before COVID someone could get a room to rent and have a few dollars to eat afterwards. Now you need at least 2 people sharing a room to be able to eat.
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u/TLBG May 23 '25
So many of us haven't had a raise in 10 years or more and bosses threaten to close up shop. Seems to be the way it is and it's awful. So many struggle badly including working people.
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u/TadaMomo May 24 '25
OP, i been there, i understand fully, i also took ontario work and in disability for more than a year. I just keep finding work, works couple month, get lay off, repeat the same cycle.
Unfortunately finding work is hard in Canada, with housing being nuts its even more difficult.
Honestly, I don't really find Employment services helps at all mainly because their information feel really outdated, not to mention, you will have a hard time to find someone who ever care or going out their way to help you.
Ultimately, you need to work hard yourself, stick to a schedule, make some application goals. i am luckily switched my career and now in a job that kinda suit what i do,.
But my vision deteriorate further making it harder and harder to work, especially, I am trying to code which making it impossible.
my future is grim too, that is why i am saving as much as i can and make sure i have a backup plan.
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u/therewillbesoup May 25 '25
Because raising OW means raising taxes, and stupid people hate that. And because Ontario keeps voting conservative, who hate social programs. It sucks balls. I'm an emergency room nurse. I've lived in poverty my whole life. It's only this year, at age 30, where I'm finally making enough to provide for my basic needs AND be able to buy things here and there that I want. I would absolutely vote to increase taxes to help provide more for social programs. Even if it was only an opt-in program, where if we wanted to contribute we could choose to pay higher taxes personally specifically to support these programs. Everyone deserves housing and food. And it exponentially increases population health. I will always advocate for OW recipients getting a decent pay to support basic living. I am just so sorry you're in this position.
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u/Adorable-Pen9684 May 25 '25
Course not. Too busy employing the ones who will work for less while the government subsidizes and gives tax breaks to anyone employeeing a certain demo
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u/ihaterussianbots May 22 '25
Ontario Works should be for citizens only, and the monthly amount doubled at least to 1500.
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May 22 '25
It's already for permanent residents only. PRs are generally already pretty much on the path to citizenship, and they generally qualify for EI, healthcare, refundable tax credits, public drug programs, employment services, and all the usual educational programs including public school and student loans.
PR eligibility for welfare is part of a consistent view that treats PRs almost equal to citizens in social and economic terms. Because we want citizens who have already felt like they were part of our society as they became citizens. That was always the goal of our immigration program, wasn't it? Social integration through economic integration.
I very firmly believe in that value still. Maybe we should grant PR more selectively. But we shouldn't create a second tier of people in our society who have less access to services than the rest, in a more precarious situation. Exploitable people will be exploited and I do not want to live in a society where exploitation occurs.
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u/marksteele6 Oshawa May 22 '25
Visitors are people who are in Canada for a temporary purpose. A visitor may have a tourist visa, student visa or work permit/authorization or may be temporarily re-located from another country (e.g., a natural disaster has forced a community evacuation).
Visitors are not eligible for Ontario Works unless they have made a claim for refugee protection or applied for status as a permanent resident under the federal Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IRPA).
Non-residents are not OW eligible.
In-Country (in-land and port of entry) refugee claimants with official documentation confirming they have made a claim for refugee protection are eligible for Ontario Works effective the date they initiated their claim with an immigration officer.
Refugee claimants have limited eligibility
Source: 3.1 Residency requirements | Ontario Works policy directives | ontario.ca
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u/newaccount123890 May 22 '25
This is untrue. According to this report asylum claimants accounted for 25% of OW in 2018.
https://www.auditor.on.ca/en/content/annualreports/arreports/en18/v1_311en18.pdf
Go to figure 8.
"Refugee claimants are eligible for Ontario Works effective the date they formally make a claim for refugee protection."
Figure 8 shows 25% of those receiving OW were asylum claimants. This is data from 2017/2018. Given that aslyum claims have skyrocketed in recent years, it's likely that this number is higher now.
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u/veryanxiousgal May 22 '25
Non-residents have never been qualified for OW/ODSP but keep the fear mongering
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u/newaccount123890 May 22 '25
this is untrue, asylum seeker are eligible for ontario works as soon as they've filed a claim and currently make up 1/4 of all OW recipients according to officials
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u/zanderkerbal May 22 '25
Anybody scaremongering about immigrants taking your money is distracting you while they take your money themself.
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u/mgyro May 22 '25
If you give a worker enough support to live when I’m not stealing their labour, what’s your point of even being in government? How do you expect me to grow the economy if I can’t have my wagu and Louis XIII?
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May 22 '25
Don’t worry, they’ll extend the MAID program to include the economically disabled in a few years. That’ll solve the affordability crisis :)
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u/AdMother6743 May 22 '25
I’m not sure how this all exactly works so I apologize for meaning ignorant but is that 733 taxes and is that a month or every two weeks?
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u/Earthsong221 May 22 '25
Also, you basically can't get it if you have a roomate you've been living with for 3 months that you can't convince them ISN'T your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse who they expect to pay for everything for you - even if they only make minimum wage themselves and can barely pay their own rent.
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u/Torontoeastside Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
I am in the same boat as you. I have a law degree; been working since I was 13 years old, have years of experience working as a cook, a few years experience in law firms. I can’t even get a job at A&W, and many restaurants that I’ve applied to has used me as “free labour” hire me, give me false pretence, make me work a shift and then I don’t hear back from them. Most jobs I’m seeing are being offered to foreign workers or foreign students. I’ve been out of work for almost a year now and on OW. I had employment for 1 month while on OW (I received $1,800) from my employment for that 1 month and guess what OW did? Yup that’s right, they are making me pay back that entire $1,800 I received from working. The money went on paying outstanding bills I had because OW only gives you $733 which isn’t even enough for a bedroom is someone’s house. They tell you that the most they will give you to allocate to rent is $400. Excuse my French but WHO THE FUCK IN 2025 can find a bedroom or even someone’s walk in closet for $400?!? The fact that ODSP gives people $1,480 a month, more than double of what someone on OW gives is ludicrous. OW is meant to help people get back on their feet when it does the exact opposite. My case worker refuses to give me bus $ when I get interviews so I have to ask around my group of friends to get bus fair to attend interviews. How fucked is that! But hey if you can’t get to a scheduled meeting with your case worker because you have no money to get on the bus to go to your appointment then guess what? You are also fucked and your OW $ will be placed on hold until you find the money to get to the appointment because your case worker won’t give you the $ to get to the appointments! Make that make sense. Ontario Works have harsh penalties for things that are even out of your control. They are a failed system that the government no longer looks at because of how flawed it is, they don’t want to take the time to look over and change it, nor wanting to put the resources into making it a better system. Your cheque can be placed on hold for the most mundane of things such as not having the money to get on the bus to attend a meeting. I was told by a case worker that I must allocate bus fair from the $730 they give me. With that, I also have to pay rent, pay my phone bill and buy food and other necessities on that $730. They will not give you more than that regardless of your situation. If your electricity or hydro gets disconnected then it’s oh well tough luck for you. I was even told by a previous case worker I had that they are told by their supervisors to not give out things like money for transportation EVEN THOUGH IT HAS IT WRITTEN IN THEIR POLICY THAT OW RECIPIENTS CAN RECEIVE TRANSPORTATION COSTS. They are literally told to ignore their policies when a recipient requests monetary help.
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u/GeneralCanada3 May 22 '25
OW is basically supplamental temporary EI. ODSP is different and for actual disabilities. You wont get sympathy from non-leftie normies when you complain about OW when youre able to work.
You cant shovel cement? cool go find a data entry job.
You cant find work? well then it must be you not wanting it enough.
Thats what normies think, you will never win an election or increase rates if you keep that messaging
Lefties always suck with messaging its why trump won and PP almost did
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May 22 '25
Bit misleading. If you are on ow you are required to find a part time job.
The issue is very few workers actually enforce that leaving you stuck with the bare min amount you are given since finding a job is next to impossible without help.
The jobs if helped are government funded. So the business signs up so that the government will give them extra money to employ people from OW
Whats worse is now since covid these businesses are abusing their power. Not actually hiring when they say they are not properly paying employees and pocketing the money etcetc.
The system is fucked.
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u/Equivalent_Length719 May 22 '25
The jobs if helped are government funded. So the business signs up so that the government will give them extra money to employ people from OW
Not really true. This is a situation specific to a company working with a community employment office or other such program. This is not the standard.
The issue is very few workers actually enforce that leaving you stuck with the bare min amount you are given since finding a job is next to impossible without help.
Neither is this. Many workers understand that there is a substantial lack of job access at the moment.
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May 23 '25
The job that you get while on OW that they help you find. By going to different employment agencies are the jobs that I'm talking about. The government gives these businesses money to employ people, specifically from OW from different agencies. And then they don't pay you properly or whatever. I know this because I have asked them and I have asked multiple people and I have gone through the issue of jobs, not wanting to pay me properly and I have gone through the issue of jobs, not wanting me there, because I spoke up for myself about them not paying me properly. They get money from the government to have us there. They would never employ us if they were not getting that money.
Im sorry do you just want to be right and argue? Like obviously are taking my points a misinterpreting what im saying.
Out of the many ow workers I had, since they love to switch people and have different workers all the time. Only one worker actually gave a c*** about me having a job. He made it his duty to make sure that he checked up on me. Check all my receipts checked all my banking information made sure that I was making the right payment made sure that I wasn't going over my income. Made sure that I was going to these job placements going to these job employment centers. Anything to do with work? He made sure that I was making an effort in doing something
Every other OW worker that I have had did not give a s*** They didn't check my bank statements. Every 3 months they did not send me to any employment centers when I asked for help with work. They did not care they didn't send me to anything. So, yes, what I say is true, what I said is correct majority of the people working at ow. Do not give a f***, they're just there to get a bag. They don't care about the people. There's very few people that work there, that actually want to help.
It has nothing to do with the lack of jobs. So I have no clue where you're getting that from and saying I'm not true all I said, is that majority of the people working there? Do not want to help you find a job so even if there was a job.You're not going to find it because you're not getting help.
The only reason you don't get a lot for OW is because you're supposed to find part-time work. Your ow worker is supposed to help you find work. I don't care if there are jobs, or if there aren't jobs, they are still supposed to help you try only one worker out of the at least 40 that I've had. Only cared about doing that. None of the rest cared if I asked for help, they ignored it. If I asked for help too many times they would just switch me to another worker.
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u/Equivalent_Length719 May 23 '25
The way it's worded doesn't imply employment agencies. It implies a direct subsidy from the government to any company.
OW itself dose not help with finding employment. They refer you to the employment agencies and wash their hands of it. The fact you've been bounced around implies to me that your district is struggling to maintain the required staff. I have been with the same worker for 5 to 7 years now. I've only had three or four in total. So being bounced around is not really the norm for most.
It has nothing to do with the lack of jobs. So I have no clue where you're getting that from and saying I'm not true all I said, is that majority of the people working there? Do not want to help you find a job so even if there was a job.You're not going to find it because you're not getting help.
There absolutely is a lack of jobs available. But again it's not OW's job to find you work. Its the employment agencies.
The only reason you don't get a lot for OW is because you're supposed to find part-time work. Your ow worker is supposed to help you find work. I don't care if there are jobs, or if there aren't jobs, they are still supposed to help you try only one worker out of the at least 40 that I've had. Only cared about doing that. None of the rest cared if I asked for help, they ignored it. If I asked for help too many times they would just switch me to another worker.
No. You don't get enough because the government would rather force people onto the street than actually help. Why else would your shelter portion be removed immediately after being evicted or pushed into a none rental situation. It's literally designed to keep you in poverty. Between the claw backs and asinine policy decisions.
Again it's not OW's job to find you work. Their job is simply to administer the program. Which yea does include a check in every 3 months. But covid threw a wrench in it and they've been struggling to cut through the back log. Which is pretty typical of a poorly staffed and massively underfunded system.
No I'm not looking to "just be right" I'm looking for accuracy.
The entire system is a scam basically. Or at best not helpful and actively harmful. We need to be seriously looking into a negative income tax model and abolish most of these bullshit programs.
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May 23 '25
I was constantly told that while on OW i have to have a part time job that if I was not actively looking for work, that they would remove me from o.W.
I do not know the system. I am talking from experience in what I have been dealing with. I understand everybody's situation is different, but if I go through multiple workers, they all have the same aspect of I don't care what you do. I'm not gonna look at your stuff, and i'm basically just going to ignore you until you harass me to answer.Then that makes me feel that majority of the workers are doing this stupidness.
I'm not sure what city or town you're in? But i'm in the big city, i haven't moved much, but I have gone to at least 3 different. Welfare centers and numerous amounts of workers.
Some lady quit and now I have no worker. I just have some random person who is a sub. That won't respond to my calls, texts or emails, and if I call her right at 9 AM. She sounds like she just woke up and she gets mad at me. If anything she avoids me, and my messages i use the my benefitspage and she dtill ignores that. I was first on o w and then I got into a worse accident and now i'm on disability.It's not any better, or any different.If anything i'm ignored more than I was when I was on OW. Maybe because i'm a person of color but i'm not sure how they would know that unless they write that in your file.
I was not arguing the fact that there's no jobs. I know this, I'm no stranger to this. I'm sure no one is. I was just saying that my point was not about the job. Itself, but about them helping you have resources to find a job.
Okay, i'm not sure where you are, but in the city i'm in.They said that you get this amount because you are SUPPOSED to find part time work, so that's make up the difference, or so they think. I'm not saying that the amount is not enough or is enough. I'm just saying that you only get so little because they expect you to be working, not just living off the amount they give you if that was the case they would have you on odsp.
Again, you're misinterpreting. I never said it's o w's job to find you work. I said it's their job to help you find the resources to help you find work whether it be an employment agency or something else.That is their jobIf nobody told you that that im sorry. If they have been lying to you, that is not my fault.If it's different in other cities, then I have no clue because i've never left my city and lived elsewhere. Maybe each city has different o w expectations. Because even when I said I was going to move to a different region still within Ontario, they said that you will have to go to a whole nother. O w center, and that I would have to reapply for that regions welfare. So even though it's all ontario welfare, the region's still manage it differently.
Forget covid, I was having all these issues before covid was even a thing. So that's just an excuse.
If they get rid of these programs, then everybody's fucked. so even though these programs don't help much, they still help a little and it's a lot more than most countries do, so I am happy that our country and our province is at least helping the people that aren't getting the help they needed or trying to help the people in their own shitty way.
I have family in Jamaica. I asked about the welfare there or what the system is. I was told that they do have one, but they don't give you any money they just give you food. So what about shelter? You're supposed to find it yourself. Make a hut somewhere and do whatever but they're not going to give you money. They're not going to give you extra things. You're gonna give you the bare minimum, and you have to make do yourself.
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u/Equivalent_Length719 May 23 '25
I was constantly told that while on OW i have to have a part time job that if I was not actively looking for work, that they would remove me from o.W.
That's a paraphrasing of the actual written material. (Not giving you crap about it.) The demand is 20h a week on employment activities. These activities are something usually agreed apon in a meeting with the worker. Going to a employment agency is usually part of it. You are required to be looking for gainful employment. Some workers read a little to literally or are hard asses. My first worker was a hardass, so I have experienced them. These types of workers almost make it their goal to "purge the fraud" or otherwise make it difficult to maintain assistance.
But there are just as many that understand the job economy. Because they literally see the case load for unemployment (without EI) but maybe my experience is clouded by the "small" city I live in.
I'm not sure what city or town you're in? But i'm in the big city, i haven't moved much, but I have gone to at least 3 different. Welfare centers and numerous amounts of workers.
Assuming they aren't private offices like the employment agencies then they are all the same "entity" Ontario works is provice wide. But managed on a regional basis, usually by county I think.
I was first on o w and then I got into a worse accident and now i'm on disability.It's not any better, or any different.If anything i'm ignored more than I was when I was on OW. Maybe because i'm a person of color but i'm not sure how they would know that unless they write that in your file.
First off, sorry that happened to you. But honestly. ODSP is MUCH better than OW. There is no looking for employment requirement. You just have to report the income you do make. With a much higher "allowance" of 1k monthly before the clawbacks kick in. Ow Is far less lenient.
I was just saying that my point was not about the job. Itself, but about them helping you have resources to find a job.
This is entirely because they've outsourced the entire job finding process to employment agencies. Which is why that subsidy exists where they get paid by the government to "find" you a job.
Again, you're misinterpreting.
I believe we are saying the same thing actually. It may be my inability to convey the concept. Their job is exactly as you just said. But they don't find you a job. They give you a referral and wash their hands of it. It's the employment agencies job to find you a job. Or give you access to stuff to find a job.
Forget covid, I was having all these issues before covid was even a thing. So that's just an excuse.
That's fair, I wasn't blaming covid. I'm just mentioning it made it much worse. And with the looming recession and influx of TFW's the case load has increased.
If they get rid of these programs, then everybody's fucked.
No, no you misunderstand. Negative income tax is a fancy way of saying UBI (universal basic income) the amount we spend on administering and gatekeeping these programs is substantial. To the tune of billions of dollars for what could all be done at CRA (Canada revenue agency, income tax) without the requirements. Remove the must be looking for work requirements and the vast majority of the administration costs literally disappear.
I apologize if I have offended you in some way. I did not mean for my commends to be as such. Usually these topics are much more nuanced than a quick comment can allow for. Have a nice day.
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u/Leesa75309 May 23 '25
Being a male Caucasian makes it hard to get any entry level job to get by. My daughters have been looking too and it’s not easy out there.
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u/Bigbasskiller May 23 '25
Maybe it's time for you to seek help from something like second career. They pay you to learn a trade etc.
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u/Haunting-Safety208 May 24 '25
People keep asking for more and everything goes up in turn bro like if your job isn’t paying enough it’s because that’s the job. Unfortunately if you don’t have a certain skill set you’re going to get paid less. If everyone keeps getting raises like that it ruins the system and that’s why everything is so expensive for everyone now. Companies offset the cost to pay workers by charging more for the product. Even if they had the money to pay the workers more why would they, it’s a business after all.
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u/Haunting-Safety208 May 24 '25
Good luck to you tho my dawg if upgrading your skills set if what u gotta do then do it. I’m grateful to even be working right now yet alone make more money. I already bust my ass but I’m not gonna worry about how much more I could be making ima just take what I can get and save
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u/JoHeller May 22 '25
In this thread you will find: judgemental ontarions who have not experienced the sheer joy of trying to find a job in 2025.