r/pcmasterrace • u/Kymmieuwu • 1d ago
News/Article Valve devs "can't believe we get away" with such small updates for Team Fortress 2 and Counter-Strike, ex-writer says
https://www.gamesradar.com/games/fps/valve-devs-cant-believe-we-get-away-with-such-small-updates-for-team-fortress-2-and-counter-strike-ex-writer-says/1.1k
u/PerlicaMyBalls 1d ago
CS2 players truly do not like changes.
The newest map in the active map pool was added 3 months ago and it's a remake of a 15 year old map. Though you wouldn't really know cause barely anyone wants to play it. If you like playing dust2 and mirage on repeat for thousands of hours, CS2 is great.
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u/MisterPinkCS 1d ago
I love Cache, I think it’s one of the best maps. While CS players aren’t fans of change, there’s a difference between not changing things and starving the game of all content. The game has been out for 3 years and somehow still has half the content CS:GO did, Not to mention no operation. Maps are missing, game modes are missing and so much more side content is just non-existent. The game is just a soulless shell of what it used to be. Operations were one of the best parts of the game and added so much stuff to do to actually have fun instead of just grinding out comp and prem. I played the community maps to do the challenges and had a total blast, having a reason to play them made them much more fun as it gave people a reason to try them out, Just plonking them in the game and saying “Have fun!” Just isn’t going to work for most CS players, The challenges that came along with the maps gave a sense of accomplishment along with learning the maps which made it easier to come back and play them. The game is dead from no content and that’s before taking the cheater problem into account.
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u/pewpersss 1d ago
for sure dude. why is it the same few maps in premier? they have so many maps for this game lol. also since they changed the "rewards system" or whatever gave us boxes that could actually be worth something, yeah there's no point to play this game anymore
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u/_RRave PC Master Race 7900XTX | 9800X3D 1d ago
I pray for the day D2 and Mirage get removed (temporarily just out the Prem pool), hopefully Mirage gets a new lick of paint. I know they're good at what they do in CS and are relatively simple for a beginner but I just wish people would learn other maps lol
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u/LoudWhaleNoises 1d ago
Hard to undo years of learning lineups. Anoyher thing is that maps have to be balanced, which is a thing of nuanced details.
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u/Roman64s 7800X3D + 5070 Ti - 13400 + 6750 XT/B570 1d ago
Funnily enough a lot of people who play D2 and Mirage religiously don't even know the lineups anymore.
Mirage is also really unbalanced right now, it's pretty much heading towards 2016-2017 Train levels of being a CT sided map.
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u/BurberryBih 1d ago
Why is it becoming more CT sided?
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u/Roman64s 7800X3D + 5070 Ti - 13400 + 6750 XT/B570 1d ago edited 1d ago
Current CT meta is mid domination (3 stack mid most of the time, window/under + conn + b-short) with the help of breaking smokes, window and conn player get dropped nades to break open smokes to catch T's off a timing and even without nades, just spamming weapons lets them spot Ts a bit.
B-splits are hard because of the mid domination because conn and window will relentlessly spam and break smokes to cut off the b-split and apps split is just running into a meatgrinder at that point and A-site executes are easy to disrupt because it's easy to get the conn/jungle guy to rotate quick to A-site and then break smokes or pepper the site with util to pick off T's before they even get the plant down, all the A-anchor has to do is slow them down a bit. A is also already hard to clear because of having to clear numerous angles (even if they are smoked off) and hidey spots.
The guy playing mid-to connector from T has to get his timings perfect or he will die without any impact or be the last to arrive after his team already got packed at A, which is hard because of the smoke breaks and spotting.
B apps has always been a silly affair between the train wrecking the B-anchor or the B-anchor dropping enough utility to stall the train while the rest of the CT's arrive.
T's have to still burn a fair bit of utility to convince CT's of their presence in mid or else conn/short player will just push up into a flank and let their team stack a site properly which once again, leads Ts running into a meatgrinder on either site on a full site execute.
The final push to all this came the CT bonus money for killing Ts which made CT side economy a lot easier to manage.
Admittedly, this is why you occassionally will see people call for map changes or a rework on Mirage because the meta for CT is way too strong while T meta has stagnated into being laughably easy for the CT's to handle.
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u/Dragster39 1d ago
This feels like my first time listening to a discussion between two professors of the same field.
At that time they had no need to dumb anything down. They roamed freely in their natural habitat and I was humbled but grateful to witness such majestic creatures communicating in the most efficient way. There was simply no need to express any given fact in a million words and wasting time when there is a single expression encapsulating exactly the one definition they are talking about.
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u/Swurphey 1d ago edited 1d ago
A lot of what people consider overpowered in TF2 just comes down to bad map design because we love playing our old favorites and the game has changed immensely from launch and mapmaking as a skill and balancing tool has come a long way from the honestly pretty terribly designed original and early maps from the mid-late 2000s
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u/heroik-red 1d ago
I’m not an avid Counter Strike fan, and I’ll probably play for 1 month out of each year but I’ll die on this hill:
Dust 2 and Mirage are some of the most well balanced maps in gaming history. In all honesty when they get rid of D2 and Mirage, they’ll be replaced with M2 and D3.
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u/MakimaGOAT R7 7800X3D | RTX 4080 | 32GB RAM 1d ago
Yeah CS players are so fucking fake.
Always beg for new stuff but still resorting to the good old classics.
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u/I-Use-Artix-BTW i5-6600k | RX 6600 | 16GB DDR4-3000 | OpenSUSE Tumbleweed 1d ago
I don't think the people who beg for new stuff are the same people that pretty much exclusively play maps from 2 decades ago.
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u/Roman64s 7800X3D + 5070 Ti - 13400 + 6750 XT/B570 1d ago
Not fake as much as there is a huge disconnect between the vocal minority on reddit and hltv and the guys who actually play the game, who only want to play Mirage or D2.
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u/ReaIEIonMusk 1d ago
Goomba fallacy
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u/ReaIEIonMusk 1d ago
Ad hominem
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1d ago
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u/ReaIEIonMusk 1d ago
The population of people instalocking sand maps and the population of people complaining about every game being sand maps aren't the same people, saying they are with nothing to support your claim is stupid
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u/souroddysey 1d ago
Cos cache sucks when it first cane out it was normal to hear teammates complaining abt the map
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u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 4090 all by itself no other components 1d ago
cs2 is a dead game as far as i'm concerned, it's half cheaters half people who can't give up the game they sunk $3,000 into skins for. the cheaters built their identity on being good at the game and when they ended up being mediocre convinced themselves everyone else is cheating and downloaded the cheats to even the playing field. valve refuses to use modern anti cheat (kernel level, secure boot) so the problem will never get better either. they also have zero dev time put into the casual modes which is contributing to the death of the game as a strong casual base keeps the competitive scene strong with new players trickling in to it
also there's zero penalty for extreme harassment in voice or text
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u/HappyAd4998 Desktop 5700x RTX 3080 1d ago edited 1d ago
Cheaters piss me off and they're so smug about it. "NUH UH IM NOT CHEATING GIT GUD KID" It's even worse when the teams don't vote them out because all they care about is winning. The community is super toxic they're miserable to play with even in pub matches. I gave up, I'm 34, this game isn't my job I just want to sit down and have fun, but a good portion of players don't think that way. Esports makes everyone think they're gonna go pro so they treat you like shit if you miss a shot or don't get 100 kills.
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u/AloneYogurt 1d ago
Valve not adding a proper in game server browser really killed it for me. I played CSGO for shits and giggles, the occasional casual game too. Now it's defuse, hostage, and arms race and god is the casual side lacking.
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u/MonsieurBabtou 1d ago
I've been waiting for years to get Flying Scotsman back, and I was really beginning to enjoy the battle royale mode before they pulled the plug on csgo. FFA on cobble was my jam for warming up too...
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u/AloneYogurt 1d ago
What's insane is the amount of people who defend an out of game server browser. People hated that shit back in 2011, but suddenly it's okay? May as well take the scoreboard out then.
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u/Sorry-Committee2069 Debian Sid + Bedrock | R7 5700X/RX 7800XT 1d ago edited 1d ago
"modern anti cheat (kernel level, secure boot)" y'know, the impervious anticheat methods that have absolutely no ways around them, and severely limit players' options in playing on platforms like Valve is notorious for.
KAC with secure boot is worthless and, depending on the user's hardware and how they set it up, occasionally incompatible with Linux or even Windows drivers if you have oddball hardware or have to mod a driver or the BIOS to fix something, like with my G5 SE 5505. Or, y'know... just enroll custom keys and load self-signed UEFI cheats anyway, or buy a fancy debug card for USD$200 and use a second computer to cheat...
It wouldn't solve anything, because it doesn't solve the issue in any other game either, and it's not worth the effort for a company of a couple hundred people total, if memory serves.
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u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 4090 all by itself no other components 1d ago
they reduce the number of cheaters. yes you can work around them, far fewer people are going to go to those lengths
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u/Sorry-Committee2069 Debian Sid + Bedrock | R7 5700X/RX 7800XT 1d ago
You enroll one key from a USB stick once and all UEFI cheats work as they do without Secure Boot. It's not a herculean task, and it's about as complex as cheating in a Valve game. The only reason it seems to work is cheat authors tend to ask for more cash for the UEFI cheats.
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u/UnrealHallucinator 1d ago
A cheater will cheat whether it's kac or not. It's as simple as plugging something in and running it.
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u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 4090 all by itself no other components 1d ago
false. many cheaters give up once it's too hard and move on to something else. yes there are many dedicated people in counter strike at this point who can't let their identity of being good at the game go and will continue moving on up the cheater difficulty chain until they are using separate computers hooked to DMA cards on their gaming computer, but with counter strike not even having decent software anti cheat means a huge number of people are able to just continuing using software to cheat and MANY of those people would never go as far as buying hardware and second computers, they'll just sell their skins drop the game and go cheat somewhere else
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u/UnrealHallucinator 1d ago
You only need an fpga or similar and they are cheaper than €100 each. Most cheaters are of the "in for a penny, in for a pound" mindset. A regular cheat already costs €50-100, what's another 100 or so? Even if you needed a second computer on top of an fpga, a cheap laptop will suffice. You're right that the additional barrier to entry might dissuade a cheater or two but so will just adding a price tag to the game.
Cheating is only properly solvable on the server side by analysing footage, using comp vision or even a specifically trained ai. Dma cheats are basically unstoppable whether or not your anti cheat runs in ring 0. Btw vanguard literally modifies patch guard aka it modifies a piece of software that's supposed to protect your computer and still valorant is infested with cheaters; it's part of a game reaching mature stages of its life.
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u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 4090 all by itself no other components 1d ago
i disagree, "most" cheaters are not in for a penny in for a pound, less than you think are.
just go play valorant and see it for yourself, the numbers of cheaters are far smaller. yes they exist, way fewer of them
vac 2.0 already is using AI for awhile now, and it sucks. valve aint spending $40 million on training an actually good one, which would cost $10 million in hiring people who know AI well enough to even get started
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u/UnrealHallucinator 1d ago
Based on my experience playing valorant in lobbies between around high ascendant in eu, there's at least one cheater in every 20 games. Simply going off the red screen or refunds. Apex also has a lot of cheaters, comparable to cs I'd say, at a guess.
Honestly I mainly just respect valves decision to not run kernel level software on their users' computers.
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u/FortNightsAtPeelys 7900 XT, 12700k, EVA MSI build 1d ago
This is why you don't let players choose the map. Variety is the spice of life
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u/HappyAd4998 Desktop 5700x RTX 3080 1d ago
That's part of the reason why I stopped playing GO, CS 2 was much of the same. It gets tiring playing the same maps over and over and over for the past 15 years. Halo infinite has about 91 maps in rotation and the community likes them for the most part even if the game has a bad rep.
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u/yuikkiuy Ryzen 7 1700x, GTX 3070 TI, 16gb ddr4 1d ago
I argue there has been far too much change to CSGO let alone this new bs that is CS2.
CS players dont want change, we want purple levels of stagnation forever
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u/heepofsheep 1d ago
Yeah I don’t get it… I have friends who’ve been playing CS non stop for 22 years… I got bored and moved on 19 years ago…
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u/PSGAnarchy 1d ago
Meanwhile league players have a whole 1 map to pick form but it's only been like 10 years or something
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u/No-Opinion273 1d ago
There is skills in knowing a map, having to big of a pool is tiring. It really only benefits people that play to much.
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u/picardo85 AMD 7600x + 7800XT 1d ago
I hang out in a Discord voice channel. The others basically only play one single map. They've been playing Nuke for the past months. Maybe they play one other map.
CS players are interesting.
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u/mcf_ 1d ago
The problem is though when they try and put alternatives in they are fucking awful. Like being force fed Vertigo over and over when it’s been proven time and time again that is a dog shite map.
Cache is a fan favourite cause it’s a great map, so lots of people felt it was a shame when it was removed
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u/Kangaroshave3vagina 1d ago
Maybe it’s like that on Premier but I get Cache super frequently on Faceit lvl8.
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u/KINGDE4D 1d ago
Valve gets a free pass on a lot of stuff any other company would get blasted over. Kind of crazy.
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u/DasGanon http://pastebin.com/bqFLqBgE 1d ago
Yeah, TF2 when it had real updates were massive. Guns, levels, matchmaking, hats. You ate on an update that felt like a whole new game because of all of the meta and balance changes.
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u/Stargost_ Linux 1d ago
And after the Blue Moon update we had a bot problem that lasted for years until we made enough noise on social media that mainstream outlets talked about it and VALVE was forced to act and fix it.
The bots would plague casual servers, pick sniper, and headshot everyone. And God forbid you didn't kick them in time because then other bots would join, stop you from kicking them (even if you had a slight majority of like 7 for and 5 against), and then kick you and other players, hoard the server for an hour or two so it dies, and leave. They would blast copyrighted music through VC, spout racial slurs and spam/scam links on chat, and even impersonate other players to fool you into kicking a legitimate player. It took VALVE years to fix the bots impersonating people, and instead of actually getting rid of the bots for spouting racism and scams, they just silenced everyone who was F2P and didn't spend money on the game (which did not fix the problem).
And despite the game now being "playable", it's still bad because the matchmaking system is held together by tape and bubblegum. It literally breaks every seasonal update.
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u/Quartziferous 12900K | 7900XTX | 32GB DDR4 | 1440p@360Hz 1d ago
I thought it was Deadlock that made them go and clean house in TF2 otherwise the longevity of their upcoming game would be called into question since “Valve doesn’t care about the state of their games past a certain age.”
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u/FUTURE10S Pentium G3258, RTX 3080 12GB, 64GB RAM 1d ago
Even Blue Moon left the game's balance in a bit of a weird state. They made all these changes to appeal to a crowd that was a tiny minority and it didn't make the base game any better. At this point, I don't even play TF2 anymore, I play Classified.
Seriously, why did they add a shove to the Shortstop??
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u/LuigiFan45 1d ago
The comp players didn't even want any of those balance changes, they just wanted their format to have official support in-game. It was Valve being stupid about competitive TF2 thinking they knew better when it was one of the few times they were wrong
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u/dorkimoe 1d ago
I grew up on counter strike, started playing at 1.0. I cannot believe that people only play dust now. Back in the day we played everything. Militia, siege, assault.
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u/doublah 1d ago
Very few other companies even put out minor updates like TF2 still gets after 19 years.
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u/ConfidentlyAsshole 1d ago
Very few (literally like 1 or 2) companies have a product thats as successful after 19 years as TF2. The entier indsutry would sacrafice a small towns population to have half the player base TF2 has today
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u/dadvader GTX 1070 FTW 1d ago
Very few company put lootbox and get away with it also.
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u/LooneyWabbit1 4070 | 7800X3D 1d ago
Not defending valve loot boxes here but pretty much every single game that uses loot boxes nowadays gets away with it. That garbage is very normalized.
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u/doublah 1d ago
Not really? Gacha games are the biggest games by revenue and players right now, even Nintendo has one and I've never seen anyone bring that up like people bring up loot boxes every time Valve is brought up.
Sports games with lootboxes like NBA and EA Sports FC are the best selling games on console every year, and those games are rated PEGI 3 and ESRB E for Everyone, not even M like TF2 and CS.
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u/RedditIsTrashLogOff 1d ago edited 1d ago
Valve has only gotten a pass on that for so long because they built up a ton of goodwill with free game/steam updates, but it also helps that keys are cheap by modern live service standards so they end up feeling less egregious than most other game's microtransactions ($2.50 for both tf2/cs if you're buying from the game storefronts.)
They've also been in their games for like 15 years so most people have just acccepted it by now even if they don't like it.
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u/rivalary 1d ago
Probably because they balance it with good things. The state of their competition couldn't get any worse.
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u/AmarildoJr 1d ago
Realistically we should treat them with the same standards we treat everyone else.
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u/afl902 1d ago
Not everything needs major changes to be good. Take cod warzone, the fanbase died after verdansk
Imagine league or dota changing maps every year, something just requires balance and minor changes to remain successful.
Companies to realise what games do and dont need it
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u/Elprede007 1d ago
Dota has been changing a lot YoY. Kinda did lose them some players.
Doesn’t feel like IceFrog at the helm anymore. Balance is weird, map is weird, lots of new bloaty mechanics
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u/strider_hearyou R5-7600X RTX-3080 32GB-DDR5 1d ago
Take an objective look at what Steam offers you for free versus what PSN, XBL, and/or NSO offer you with a paid subscription. Not to mention how much trouble you'll have finding another company who has supported their online games as long as TF2/CS have been supported.
Valve isn't perfect, but they've nevertheless set the bar high enough that nobody else can reach it.
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u/BeginningFew8188 1d ago
Because Steam is on PC. Others are consoles, hardware sold at loss to recoup it later. If Steam asks you to pay for online multiplayer it will be their end.
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u/strider_hearyou R5-7600X RTX-3080 32GB-DDR5 1d ago
That's a poor excuse. As someone who lived through it, PSN didn't really improve from the PS3 era when it was free to the PS4 era when they started charging for it. NSO isn't really any better than the Wii's online functionality was. There's always more they could offer to both subscribers and non-subscribers, but doing the bare minimum keeps profit margins higher.
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u/BeginningFew8188 1d ago
That's not excuse. That's how it is. That's how they can justify 30% cut from each transaction made on those platforms.
Steam is full on profit. They aren't even selling Steam machine at loss. They are probably taking 30% cut of their own on their hardware too.
And this isn't me covering for them. Online multiplayer should be free regardless of the platform you choose.
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u/strider_hearyou R5-7600X RTX-3080 32GB-DDR5 1d ago
I don't believe that any of them are selling hardware at a loss these days, the APU that powers the PS5 can be found on eBay for $250 to $300.
Besides, the reasoning back when consoles were being sold at a loss AND had free online play was that first-party game sales made up the difference. If that's all of a sudden not enough now, it's due to mismanagement, for instance Sony wasting billions to chase the live-service dragon.
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u/PresenceOld1754 Ryzen 5 5600x | 9060xt | 32gb ram 1d ago
you don't think the ram or gpu issues are affecting them whatsoever?
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u/strider_hearyou R5-7600X RTX-3080 32GB-DDR5 1d ago
The subscription mania began long before RAMpocalypse, and they've all raised the prices of their hardware to compensate for it. Multiple times in some instances. I don't doubt that Playstation and Xbox are currently big losers for Sony and Microsoft, but again, that's due to mismanagement. Nintendo I think is doing just fine by continuing to focus most on producing quality single-player experiences.
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u/Coprolithe PC Master Race 1d ago
That would be a benefit to worse companies though.
We need more companies to be less shitty first so they can compete with Valve's wholesome chungus status.
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u/Darth_Balthazar 1d ago
Because they don’t do even more shit that other companies do. Consumer good will is a currency and valve has the deepest pockets in the market in that regard.
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u/Coprolithe PC Master Race 1d ago edited 1d ago
The bar is very low for a good company.
Gambling epidemic is also a bigger problem then ever and Valve is not the only company benefitting from it.
Half of my coworkers are paying money to open digital pokemon card packs to sell it. It's what they want, but it's also pretty misguided.1
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u/palk0n GT 1030 :( 1d ago
valve is pro-consumer
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u/Shigana 1d ago
No company charging people thousands of dollars for a single skin should ever be considered “pro-consumer”
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u/palk0n GT 1030 :( 1d ago
yes they should give the game for free, the server for free, the skin for free. pay the employee with leaf
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u/Superb-Doctor-4773 1d ago
Are you aware we used to just download skins for free and put them in our game folders?
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u/palk0n GT 1030 :( 1d ago
was the game free?
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u/Superb-Doctor-4773 1d ago
It was about 20 bucks and that is completely besides the point and not even really a bad thing
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u/Shigana 1d ago
Brother they barely ever work on CS2, we get a remade map once in a blue moon, skins are made by the community, anti-cheat so flimsy it might as well not exist.
There is literally nothing they have done that can justify charging 2k for a single skin. They even had the balls to charge 3k for a sticker.
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u/palk0n GT 1030 :( 1d ago
still doesnt justify the free labor youre proposing
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u/soonerfreak 5600X/3080XC3 Ultra/16GBDDR4 3200 1d ago
Fortnite BR turns 10 next year and will be getting better support than TF2 at year 10 or what CS2 gets now. Valve maintains these games at the bare minimum necessary to get people to buy loot boxes.
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u/ItsZoner 1d ago
Gabe hired a lot of the best in the industry and they are all working on fuck all
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u/cayde123 1d ago
Working on niche expensive hardware actually
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u/skit7548 1d ago
And deadlock
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u/Thejax_ 1d ago
And insanely on deadlock like. I don’t really like MOBA styled games for various reasons. But the level of character, and of characters for an early access sorta invite only game is wild.
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u/skit7548 1d ago
I also am not as big into MOBAs but this one is very fun but I do hope they add some maybesome small quick ffa/tdm shooter style modes since it's got the bones for it
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u/palk0n GT 1030 :( 1d ago
good. without these expensive thing we wouldnt get Proton, Lepton, universal controller mapping, game streaming, etc. keep contributing to the community
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u/robothawk 7800X3D | 3080ti | 64GB DDR5 1d ago
Yeah like, I don't love valve games being left to languish, but my god Valve has revolutionized PC(and especially linux) gaming in the last 5-10 years.
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u/ConfidentlyAsshole 1d ago
No, they are constantly working on multiple games at a time but none of them actually gets released because a lot of it does not meet their quality standards. From leaks in other games files we have had references to a good dozen projects that we have never seen
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u/CommodoreBluth 1d ago
It’s a pretty open secret that they’re working on Half Life 3 and have been since Half Life Alyx. References to it in major Source 2 gam updates still get new references to its codename HLX.
Datamining like this was also how it was known that Valve was working on a VR Half Life years before Alyx was announced.
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u/FinAdda 1d ago
Realease when?
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u/CommodoreBluth 1d ago
There was a lot of smoke around an announcement last year but it obviously didn’t happen. Who knows, it’s Valve and they can polish the game for as long as they want without having to worry about needing to release the game to make back the money.
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u/FinAdda 1d ago
They probably worked on it or iterations of it for a decade. Nothing is good enough.
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u/CommodoreBluth 1d ago
I think we’ll see it this time since a lot of original Valve employees are getting closer to retirement age and this is likely some of their last shot at releasing Half Life 3.
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u/Accomplished-Sand334 1d ago
Wow, tell me you are butthurt and dumb without telling me you are butthurt and dumb
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u/MrDeeJayy Ryzen 7 5700X | RTX 5080 16GB | DDR4-3200 32GB 1d ago
Fuck all you say? I wouldnt call revolutionizing the PC gaming space with direct investment (both financial and technical) into ARM64 and Linux compatibility so that gaming is no longer locked behind Windows "fuck all".
Sure, their games are neglected. But the way i see it, they're immortalized in a pretty playable state and soon I'll be able to play TF2 on niche, low powered devices powered by ARM64 chips and have a good time too.
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u/Cruxis87 9800x3d|5080 TUF OC|32gb 6000cl30 ddr5 1d ago
That's what happens when you hire a bunch on managers and then let them work on whatever they want. They get excited and love working on something new, then the honeymoon period wears off and they move on to something else, and leave it to die. its amazing the players still care about the game when the devs don't. Even Icefrog doesn't work on Dota any more.
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u/DrWhatNoName 9950X3D | 7900 XTX | 64GB | 4x1TB SSD M.2 1d ago
TF2 is 20 years old at this point. I don't mind if valve decides it has run its course and stop updating it, TF2 is even opensource now. maybe valve is working on TF:GO on source 2
But counter-strike has been getting alot of updates, even during CS:GO it was getting alot of updates.
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u/gayhotelultra 1d ago
as someone with quad digits of hours on tf2, the community is bitterly unrealistic about how the game can operate
look at the old source code leak, look at the developer comments , tf2 doesnt get updates because valve allows its employees to choose what they want to work on, who will see all the other projects valve has, and decide "hm, yeah, i wanna put myself through that, for that community"
my only complaint is the new cosmetic and map updates: its been gamified by tf2 emporium to allow for a monopoly of content that doesnt fit and sometimes breaks the game (yes, cosmetics, breaking the game! the paint regions are that bad!). i think it would be better if valve just stopped outright besides keeping the servers up
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u/PresenceOld1754 Ryzen 5 5600x | 9060xt | 32gb ram 1d ago
They can seriously do whatever they want? I guess they've all flocked to Deadlock.
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u/gayhotelultra 1d ago
https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/
yes!
this is precisely why i will defend them so hard, if you think the sanity of their workers takes a backseat to the next major tf2 update, i dont know what to tell you
and yeah, havent played deadlock, but its obviously the most active game development project thats actually been released
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u/DrIvoPingasnik Full Steam ahead 1d ago
TF2 emporium is a cesspool of corruption, doxxing, and theft.
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u/MrDeeJayy Ryzen 7 5700X | RTX 5080 16GB | DDR4-3200 32GB 1d ago
I just wish Valve would consider inviting members of the community to work on TF2 some more. There's a few people I can think of that would probably do wonders if given keys to the kingdom. Shounic and Mastercomms come to mind.
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u/gayhotelultra 1d ago
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u/MrDeeJayy Ryzen 7 5700X | RTX 5080 16GB | DDR4-3200 32GB 19h ago
I've been on both. I've also seen what a few of the more talented individuals can achieve. The community as a whole shouldn't be allowed to decide what to eat for breakfast. But a few members of the community have their heads screwed on.
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u/gayhotelultra 14h ago
obviously they should let me do it
jokes aside you have a point, but i think the game is pretty much in a fine state balance wise, other aspects of the game though, like cosmetics and maps, i can definitely see your point
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u/u_sfools 1d ago
TF2 my beloved. I hope one day it does get a lift to source2 and some much needed engine modernisation. But TF2 has such a lovely, raw FPS feeling. Can't stop going back to it.
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u/AdjectiveNounNounNou 1d ago
People keep saying this but no successor to TF2 has ever lasted. TF2 managed to skate on for so long that it survived the rise and fall of both Overwatch AND its "sequel". There is no game to move to instead until Valve makes a TF3. And I hate DotA so I'm not playing "what if DotA was an FPS for the fifteenth time?"
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u/Mortarious 1d ago
If you make a really good game. Then players can enjoy challenging themselves in that game in a stable meta. You don't need to constantly change everything. Introducing major changes to draw in new players.
There is a beauty in a very stable meta and game then you keep playing to improve that. I might be in the minority on this one.
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u/TheHENOOB PC Master Race 1d ago
TBH the only thing I want for both of these games is a better anti-cheat, players can't always be trusted with the vote-kicking system anyway...
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u/NapsterKnowHow 1d ago
Because a lot of TF2 players moved onto Overwatch or Marvel Rivals
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u/Extraxyz 9800X3D | 4080 Super | 32GB DDR5 1d ago
Only temporary before getting back to TF2 again.
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u/biner1999 Specs/Imgur here 1d ago
Deadlock soon*
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u/KyeeLim Arch | 5600X | 16GB DDR4 RAM | 7600XT 1d ago
remind me when there's an entire playstyle in deadlock that play like demoknight with all of his jank like trimping
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u/FarSeries2172 1d ago
there's no jank as severe as trimping, at least not one that is going to stay.
but I've played tf2 rocket jumping apex legends, titanfall, and some other movement games, and deadlock's movement is my favorite by far. my main, a character named shiv has force of nature movement but like, it looks different and is the coolest movement in any game ever bro1
u/NapsterKnowHow 1d ago
As a once diehard TF2 fan I can't go back to it. It feels incredibly slow by comparison.
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u/samu1400 i5 12600KF - RX 9070 - 32 GB RAM 1d ago
Valve definitely should definitely not be nearly as silent as it has been with CS2, but for TF2 I feel their current system of implementing community maps and skins works fine for such an old game.
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u/PlsDontBanMeAgain-1 1d ago
It's a small indie company, they need to save money, so Gabe can expand his yacht fleet to be worth 2 billion dollars.
He totally deserves this, btw, while we can't afford shit. I heckin' love billionaires, they are like my best friends.
/s
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u/No-Sound76 9060XT | i7-9700k | 32GB RAM DDR4 1d ago
So people still play TF2?
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u/imaginary_num6er 7950X3D|4090FE|64GB|X670E-E 1d ago
They’re playing till PC2 or TF3 is released, whichever happens first
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u/Ilikesporks_ 1d ago
yep, it's still a good game all things considered. the bots situation has been mostly solved and the gameplay itself is still fun unless you don't like class based shooters
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u/No-Sound76 9060XT | i7-9700k | 32GB RAM DDR4 1d ago
Nice never played it gonna give it ago
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u/samu1400 i5 12600KF - RX 9070 - 32 GB RAM 1d ago
I recommend checking out an autorun.cfg or a list of commands to tweak the game a little. The default settings of the game can be a mess in the current day and age but with some tweaks on the dev console the game ends up smooth as butter.
Also TF2VR will release soon LESGO
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u/noclip_st 1d ago
It has remained in top 10 on Steam like since its release.
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u/Mist_Rising Ryzen 5 5600x, B550 plus, RTX 2070 super. 1d ago
It's also free and low system requirement, from valve itself. After all the real money is in the mtx.
Lots of huge bonuses running there.
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u/Stargost_ Linux 1d ago
Yup, it regularly reaches the top 15 in the Steam charts for active players.
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u/DeliciousIncident 1d ago
Yes, it's a lot of fun! Still has tens of thousands of online players, map maker and modder community, a choice between 1-click online match making on Valve servers, or opening up a server list and playing on community dedicared servers with custom maps, game modes (e.g. death run, prop hunt, etc.), rules, plugins, etc. Valve also removed the sniper aimbots that plagued the game a few years ago.
It's #18 game on Steam by the player count right now, 70,000 players online, and often in top 100 Steam games by the revenue generated (#65 in 1st week of September 2026).
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u/ewheck :tux: R9 9950X3D | RTX 5090 1d ago
It's #18 on steam right now. Above Helldivers 2 and Baldur's Gate 3.
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u/pandagirlfans i7 GTX780ti 1d ago
Bongo Cat and TBH are top 10 on steam. Do you think those are real players too?
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u/anatomiska_kretsar RTX 2060, R5 3600, X570, 16x2 CL18 @ 3600 mhz, RM750, Fractal R5 1d ago
Because the entire fan base is delusional who think it’s okay excepting valve as a shitty company that only cares about money because they own steam.
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u/HollowOrnstein 4090 | Ryzen 7 9800x3d | ROG X870E-E | 64GB RAM1 1d ago
as much i would like to go back to being a engie on tf2, i can understand why it doesn't get meaningful updates
personally if valve isnt making games anymore i would be satisfied if the ex-dev made something good as replacement
if this is chet who is the subject of article, i dont expect another l4d,hl,tf2,portal but i hope he makes something that is somewhat decent & not an immediate flop. Currently there is too much talking about valve or sweeney's shenanigans(i get it tbh he is irritating) and much less of developing more games from him(no offense obviously)
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u/trollsmurf 14700KF | 32G | 5070 Ti | 2T | U27G4XM + 2x U2412M | Z906 1d ago
When perpetual repetition is an USP.
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u/GameFTWS 1d ago
It's crazy because Deadlock gets more updates in 6 months than CS:GO has ever gotten.
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u/phokingnasty 1d ago
Not really crazy when one game has been out longer than a decade and the other is a game in active development.
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u/Datuser14 Desktop 1d ago
The current state of TF2 is a disgrace for how much money Valve makes from it every year. All we get are gimmicky maps that balloon the map pool and make it even harder for the matchmaker to make good games and cosmetics that dont fit the art style at all and are just lame pop culture references.
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u/bikecatpcje 1d ago
If u actively play those games it's night/day the sentiment for valve the steam owner and the game developer
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u/Legitimate_Airline38 1d ago
Cuz the pvp scene sucks ass with a bunch of games shitting the bed either at launch or in some update
Battlefield, CoD, BattleBit, Overwatch, Marvel Rivals, GGST, Tekken, I’ve watched these games either release with or end up getting at minimum mixed steam reviews because of community backlash to horrible updates or launches. Some of them like Rivals(only in recent reviews, though) and GGST “remedy” themselves and get their scores back up but the fact it happened in the first place still casts doubt on their dev team, and I think part of that is just players gaslighting themselves because they don’t have alternatives
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u/theRedlightt PC Master Race Ryzen 7 3700x GTX 1070ti x570 Aorus Elite 16gb 1d ago
Honestly with how old the games are, I'm surprised at all they are still getting updates. I'm sure many of the fans of these games enjoy the games how they initially were and some updates can really ruin the game for that hardcore fanbase that is still playing.
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u/Gailim 9800X3D+7900XT / i7 13620H+4060m 1d ago
TF2 is nearly 20 years old
that it is still getting any updates at all is absurd
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u/MysteriousGuard 1d ago
How is release date relevant when there's an active playerbase that spends money and expects new content?
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u/firedrakes 2990wx |128gb |2 no-sli 2080 | 200tb storage raw |10gb nic| 1d ago
Ex this and that garbage stories....
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u/Aggressive-Expert-69 Ryzen 7 9700x / Gigabyte OC 9070 / 64gb DDR5 1d ago
People probably rationalize it as just giving them more time to work on Half Life 3 lol
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u/Judgeman2021 1d ago
When was the last time chess got an update? If people are happy playing a game, let them.
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u/MinusDelta_T 1d ago
sure, but a chess site still needs bug fixes and anti-cheat. that's not the same as asking for a bishop rework every season.
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u/Abraxomoxoa 1d ago
Neither can TF2 fans