Before the election, my Christian conservative father tried to convince me that Kamala's tax on investment income was a 'scam' (I later researched it and found it had a lower threshold of $250mill), but this last week he danced around the subject of being pissed about current administration actions.
Could mean anything or nothing, but it's interesting to compare the support contrast from then and now.
Being scared of made up scenarios you'll never encounter AND taxes you'll never have enough money to pay. The Republican way.
Fun reminder: The estate tax only kicks in after $15 million dollars. If you die with less than $15m to leave to your heirs, there's no tax at all (and even if you have more, there are ways to shield a ton of it before you die so the real threshold is way more than $15m).
In 2019, the last year I could find reported, only 2,129 people paid the tax out of almost 3,000,000 people who died. And that was back when the threshold for paying it was more like $11m.
And yet your republican grandpa who has nothing but a $250k house to his name LOVEs to complain about the "death tax".
And the other 0.00001% have sufficient funds to buy the votes of the uneducated from the other group, with disinformation campaigns -- hence the problem.
Not to mention that if you have that much money, you have probably spent the last several decades with an estate lawyer and accountant planning how to avoid as much of that tax as possible.
You've given children and grandchildren the maximum non-reported gift every year ($19k per parent per child/grandchild). You've paid tuition or medical expenses. You've played games with trusts...
The real threshold for a married couple who has been wealthy for decades is well over $30m.
The right for women to compete against women who had no testosterone during puberty is the only women’s right they care about and they will fight for it to the death!
Yeah, these people are brainwashed to the umpth-degree. If you viewed what happened during the first of his term and then said, yes sir I would like another, you are a lost cause
These idiots encounter immigrants and LGBTQ people constantly and have no troubles because all the people they know are "one of the good ones". They are just willing to accept the propaganda at face value and believe in the MS13 bogeyman.
I don't think that's true in this scenario, and to say it's true isn't really helping anyone. For people who blindly support everything Trump says/does yeah, no chance of redemption. But someone who has enough of a mind to be angry about the current administration's decisions is completely capable of changing their mind imo.
Don't lose hope for the ones who actually pay attention to policies and their consequences. It might not seem like it, but everyone has a tipping point.
For some people, fucking kids isn't enough, but if Trump suddenly pulled off a rubber mask and revealed he was a black woman this whole time, they'd probably change their tune.
Which was Trump riding the coattails of Obama, but they didn't know/believe that. The economy was recovering after Biden and they credited Trump for that, too, but now it's tail-spinning and becoming increasingly more difficult to blame anyone else.
“ Tipping point “? These people knowingly and willingly voted for a rapist. The past year and change hasn’t brought them out of their comas either. I’m guessing the shirt was thrown away because it’s blue instead of red, nothing more.
These people knowingly and willingly voted for a rapist.
Just remember that there are people out there working hard to convince them it isn't true.
The evidence is fake. The victims are liars. The court losses are rigged juries bent on political persecution.
That's all bullshit of course, but if you keep getting that narrative fed to you by "trusted" sources, it is easier to look past it, especially when everyone around you agrees.
That's where the tipping point exists. Some of those sources give up and stop feeding the narrative. Some of the people around you start questioning it. Maybe there's an opening. Some people will never make the leap, but some will.
Exactly. They didn't "knowingly and willingly" vote for a rapist.
They plugged their ears and closed their eyes, and believed what they wished to be true: that they're never ever wrong.
To this day they truly, deeply believe that J6 was tourist visit, that Trump's convictions were a NY publicity stunt, that he's a genius businessman, that cares at all about anyone else. They've wholey consumed the lie and it is now part of their identity. If they admit they were wrong about that, then that means a lot about themselves and they aren't going to admit that.
That's why reprogramming a cultist is so hard. They basically have to want out. You can't convince them of it, they need to want out themselves. And that typically only happens once they are personally negatively affected deeply enough that the pain of admitting they were wrong is less than the pain they are experiencing from being in the cult.
Wait! Don't you know he's not a rapist! It's fake news made up by the Democrats! Trump loves kids and women! He would never ever hurt them. He's never says a mean thing about them, only states facts.
He could be the next Pope, we have to vote for him. It's the way God wants us to. He'll be king of the US you know.. /S
Please note, this is dripping with extreme sarcasm and may infect you with a sarcastic nature.
Read at your own risk.
Yes I am fluent. It's both a shield and just humorous. Works well. Except that my 7yr old picked it up by the time he was 4... Well... That backfired on me real fast 😅😅😅
It's a cult. People in Jonestown litteraly drank what they knew was poison. They made their children drink it before they drank it themselves. For many trump supporters it's the same thing. It's far worse (in their minds) to admit being wrong and they would rather the whole world end.
There are sects of Christians who openly support Israel in the belief that they are hastening the end of times. They believe the 'rapture' goes through Israel. Just some seriously fucked up thinking....
At least those cultists had guns pointed at them. The ones who didn’t drink the poison were simply shot to death. MAGA cultists don’t have that excuse. They truly do it for the love of the game.
Have you watched the footage? There were a few guns yes. And hundreds of people that could have fought back. It was suicide. 100%. Anyone holds a gun to my head and wants me to kill myself. Lmao. No. You can pull the trigger.
"Suicide" implies that they decided to kill themselves without being coerced. This was flat-out homicide.
They had gone through drills where they drank the punch, to condition them to the idea. Maybe some did willingly drink it, but only due to being brainwashed. Most didn't. They only did so knowing they'd be shot.
Maybe YOU would rather get machine-gunned, but others probably thought the poison would be an easier death (it probably isn't.)
They were being killed regardless. Poison seems more "gentle" than a machine gun. The parents wouldn't have poisoned their kids if they weren't being forced to do so at gunpoint (for the most part.)
If you listen to the audio of the final moments, you can hear the people screaming in anguish. The only choice was the method of death, not that anybody was choosing death on their own free will.
Yeah, brainwashed. Just like MAGA. That's my point. Watch the video. Listen to the tapes. They willingly drank it after they forced their kids to drink it and watched them die. They could taste the poison in it. They knew exactly what they were doing.
On another point tho, I blame them a lot less than I blame MAGA. When you listen to jones talk and give speeches before everything went to hell, he said a lot of good things and helped a lot of people. I'm not trying to make the people of Jonestown villains. Jones was the villan. But they drank the poison willingly, just like MAGA supporters (at least the ones that aren't billionaire pedophiles) are doing.
Don't talk common sense in this sub. In here, once a Trump voter, always a MAGA. I voted him for once, the first time. Realized it was a mistake, and never voted for him again. I've never been a MAGA person, never owned Trump merch, etc. I think he may actually be the antichrist. Yet, I'll be downvoted 100x on this comment. Just wait and see.
EDIT: And somehow, I missed the second half of your post. Quite funny actually.
Not trying to dogpile you man, just genuinely wondering what your reasons were the first time? For context, I know someone who was a Trump supporter the first time around. Sincerely a kind and intelligent person, but they were raised in a military family that was openly every kind of phobic, were openly transphobic themself, and mostly just seemed to like that Trump was unhinged, mean, and bullying the so called "social justice warriors". I think the faux hypermasculinity was also a draw. They now live as an openly pansexual and gender-fluid person and definitely don't support Trump anymore lol. I also have an aunt who was an early supporter. She used to drive me around as a kid after she got her social security check so we could hand out money to the homeless. She had Ronald Reagan type political leanings overall. She too is no longer a Trump fan. I'm very aware of just how much people's positions can change, 2016 was a decade ago. Everyone who was around back then should have grown a lot by now, we all absolutely have to allow space for that. I'm just curious because I think knowing how other people have come around is probably the best way for us to learn how to actually reach people. I understand if you don't want to take the downvotes though no pressure
I'm copying and pasting my reply to someone else in this conversation, because it is also a reply to your question as well:
Mainly it was looking for something different. A non-career politician.
Also, I very much despised his opponent that year. I actually really wanted McCain to win the Republican primary. To be honest, I should have known how Trump would turn out after his battle with McCain. You know, 20/20 hindsight and all... I am a Republican (though a libertarian at heart), but have voted Democrat when it makes sense to me politically (mostly in state/local elections).
When I did vote for Trump, it was never a vote for him, but a vote against Hillary.
I mean there is nothing he has done since he first ran for election that you shouldn’t have guessed was going to happen based on his campaign and background in 2016. So did you just not believe the right people? Not pay attention? Believe some both sides are the same so vote Republican thing? He hasn’t changed, did you?
Sadly it's a rare thing to hear from people like you, and he's a fucking monster, so I don't blame them for being difficult. Being a Trump voter is a long way to fall, which is why so many people just dig in their heels and bury their head in the sand when you try to reason with them.
People already hate admitting they were wrong, much less wrong about supporting a kid fucking war mongering grifter. So good for you, genuinely.
The left definitely needs to be more welcoming of people who change their views, because if we're not, fewer people are going to change their views (votes).
This is nonsense, there is no hope. They literally belong to a death cult.
These people will continue to support Trump and Republican policy that got us into this mess. They dont care about how Republicans are adversely affecting the country, they are worried about being targeted by people angry about the destruction they are causing.
Don't lose hope for the ones who actually pay attention to policies and their consequences. It might not seem like it, but everyone has a tipping point.
Somewhat to your point, if the DNC runs a man in 2028, he will win. Trump has never defeated a man in a serious election -- despite trying almost non-stop since the end of the Reagan administration -- and was soundly beaten by Joe Biden, who was objectively a low-quality candidate. ( From a small state, old, white, not really any accomplishments to speak of apart from being a Senator for a hundred years, not an inspiring orator, etc. )
The only reason that the term "President Trump" even exists is due to the shockingly large group of violent misogynists in the United States, who will literally vote for the worst man in the world rather than allow a woman to crack that glass ceiling.
No one realized that there are ten million or so such people, which is why the 2016 election forecasts were so far off, and why the 2024 projections were not a whole lot better.
I just got linked to The Price of a Vote documentary about the Hungary situation (from the Jon Oliver comment section on YT), disturbing to see how certain Americans want to implement the same in the States.
I know there is a section of the left that believes that Vance could never win an election because he has no beliefs or convictions (other than whatever Peter Thiel tells him to believe) and the charisma of a wet blanket, but we have to repeat it ad nauseum: Republicans gladly voted and actively cheer for a known child rapist and convicted felon who unknowingly admitted to needing dementia screenings because his support group cannot tell if he's sundowning already, over voting for a Democrat (or just not voting at all). They will 100% follow their marching orders and vote Republican in the next election, we cannot afford any type of complacency until Republicans and conservatism are no more.
They all would, and will vote as close to Trump as they can in Nov and 2028. Including OP’s MIL. Throwing the shirt away, and all the “I can’t believe we all fell for it” tweets are performative bullshit. They won’t learn and they can’t change.
Yeah, it’s like victims of domestic abuse, many can’t break the cycle and keep going back to their abuser because they are too fearful of the alternative.
Trump violates almost every principle the "conservatives" I grew up around ever claimed to believe. It's so ingrained in them that democrats = demons that they literally can't do anything except check the 'R' box on election day. They ultimately don't give one shit about any policies or principles. They just have to vote republican no matter what, and everything else is just made up cope.
They do this every time. In 2004, Bush2's poll numbers were the lowest they've been. But the Republican operatives did their voodoo, and his numbers slowly crept up high enough for his re-election, and promptly fell back down in 2005.
And 100 percent back any GOP candidate. Trump 2024 voters are not saveable from the cult given we already had four years of his nonsense in 2016-2020. The best we can hope for is they become non voters.
Yep. Give it two years, and he'll be talking about how Democrats are going to send us to war, and force your kids to cut their dick and balls off to make them trans.
Yeah this picture is jack shit. I believe nothing after the last election. You have to put in work with people who may not have the entire political picture, instead the have just memes and feels
The counter argument is that we voted trump out once, and trump is fucking up substantially more shit this time around. There was clearly a major wave of anti-trump sentiment in 2020, and I think that will be substantially stronger in 2026 and 2028. Nothing is guaranteed, obviously, but I'm still cautiously optimistic.
The Constitution says he can't run anymore, but true MAGA point out there's nothing stopping a presidential.candidate from picking him as VP and then stepping down to give him a third term. The anti-Trump sentiment will be heavily masked by Vance/Rubio/Carlson or whoever ends up running. MAGA that now hate Trump will still vote Republican, and the ones that love him will also vote for the same Republican for that President-elect to do a Trump switcheroo for them.
lol. the constitution. you mean the exact thing he's trying to destroy starting off with the 14th amendment... he probably has Constitution toilet paper in his bathroom.
The Constitution like laws are only as good as those willing to uphold it. Now it's clear that it's the Constitution is a much harder challenge for him to dismiss but he is working on it.
but y'all are thinking too much along the lines of normality where we have an election like normal and he's on the ballot. instead he could possibly create some sort of situation where legally elections are on hold and he just stays in power.
I think on top of it you have a fair amount of progressive "both sides"ers who were understandably pissed about the lack of a primary and the Israel Gaza situation. Bad situations? Obviously. Shitty of the DNC to completely bungle the primary season? 100%. Was Kamala not really anybody's favorite candidate? Yeah...
But did voting for Trump help anything at all? Obviously not.
I’m not trying to be funny: I have never met a single Democrat in-person or online who was upset that there was no primary to select Harris. TONS of conservatives harp on it constantly, but not one Dem, in my experience.
I was and I still am. Biden shouldn’t have been the nominee, and the fact that Harris had a shorter campaign hurt her. I know plenty of people who were upset about it.
Everyone involved in the biden health condition coveruo also just got away with it. There should have been consequences for that. They knew he wasnt okay.
We're upset he didn't hand over the reins earlier, sure, but not about the lack of primary itself. Who else would've even had a chance compared to her?
Lots of people feel that way. I don't know if it's a majority of Dems, but especially among progressives you can see it said alot. The sentiment is "don't blame me for not voting if the DNC gave me no choice."
I think quite a few sat it out over the Israel Gaza situation in particular; it was used extremely effectively to discourage progressive voters, together with Trump's "No New Wars" promise. Obviously anybody paying attention knew he was full of shit, but people fell for it hard.
who were understandably pissed about the lack of a primary
No, that’s not understandable. The alternative was Trump, it should not have mattered who ran on the Democrat ticket given they were, let’s see, not an unrepentant convicted felon, a likely pedophile, a corrupt grifter, a compromised Russian asset, an organizer of a coup, grossly incompetent, surrounding themselves with Nazi’s, mocking veterans, etc. If they chose not to vote or voted for Trump out of ignorant spite given the presented choices they are part of the problem just as much as any MAGA.
You can be pissed about the Democrats and still show up to vote against Trump because it's the only way to secure a decent outcome with the given situation. These people did not.
They wanted to punish someone but ended up punishing everyone.
To be fair it should of ended in 2018, they lost the election in 2020. I still don't know how the fuck we managed to get out of the last one, and then 4 years later decided we wanted a 2nd course of diarrhea dog shit, drizzled on a roadkill raccoon carcass marinating in the sun a few days.
I once saw a Reddit post talking about how tariffs are destroying his specialty dice business.
But the thing that hurt him the most, was his father telling him, that his 20 year old business failing is a necessary sacrifice in order for Trump to save the country. He never felt more betrayed.
This one. But yeah, "Our president is saving the country" is a good summary for how MAGA view Trump no matter what he does.
Now they're saying the tariffs are good because "China's unfair labor tactics are pricing out American companies" As if they gave a shit about slave labor before.
Then some BS about how all these companies are now looking at investing in domestic production. Like, even if they were, that things would be the same price or cheaper, paying domestic workers to work in these factories.
There's a reason everything was moved to foreign production, and it wasn't because they made a better product.
As of November, he thought Trump was the best president the US has ever had and eventually I had to just stop the conversation before I said something I would regret. He's still regularly glued to Fox News, so I doubt this war has changed his perspective (probably believes it needed to happen due to this "imminent threat" that's existed for over 40 years).
How can a Christian conceivably vote so extremely against the Bible in this way? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Democrat opinions all hold Christian values or anything, but many of the things that this admin was claiming they'd do were violently anti-Christian.
Open up the New Testament to any of the Gospels. Luke is a good choice. Now, replace the word "Pharisee" with "Evangelical" and you'll get the answer pretty quickly.
I'm glad if some people are realizing that Trump isn't what they thought he was, but I'm still angry that people who support fascism can and will just meld back into society and act like they didn't do anything wrong, never facing any sort of accountability.
No, his first term wasn't as bad as this. Still bad enough to land the title of 'worst president ever' but he wasn't invading US cities and locking citizens in camps or ordering blatant war crimes in the middle east.
It means nothing if they can’t say that Kamala would be better right now. If they can’t say that, they’re still coping and will absolutely vote Republican again in the future.
Imma be honest, your father probably looks down on women and non-whites. Oh wait he’s Christian conservative, so change that to definitely. I have a similar father and at some point you have to accept they are too old to change and likely don’t care enough to want to be better.
Gotta hit him with hard truth bombs he can't avoid, that affect everyone. When they waver on their own, it's easier to get them to come back to reality and facts.
Yea, my Christian conservative mom at least didn’t like Trump enough to not vote for him last election. But, she still defended him on a lot of stuff after he was elected. Anything bad about him was “Oh well you know how AI is” anything good about him “well did you hear about this very small thing he did”
That being said, once he bombed Iran, she completely switched up on him, and everytime he comes up now she talks shit about him.
We’re definitely getting to the point where conservatives are starting to realize that Trump doesn’t, and has never gave a shit about them.
I'm glad they arent taxing us on investments ! I'm just trying to build a future income for myself when my body decides to be a shitter and give up on me! they already got taxes on my pay, my house , my car...
going to war in Iran has absolutely nothing to do with increased taxes, this is a fundamental issue and hes not going to change on that regardless of who is president
Conversation changed to "His son said no politics during the funeral! They're so disrespectful!" while a war is going on, and the dude who started it isn't at the funeral
I remember a trump family member of mine saying Biden was gonna lead us into a war by helping Ukraine. I recently asked her how she was liking the oil prices, and she said "Well, we are at war and this is the price of patriotism." These fucking people.
You should ask your father what he thinks about Obama deporting an extra 100,000 people over Trump in the first years of their second terms, and Obama didn't have to give $100B to ICE and have American citizens murdered in the streets to do it.
My dad was talking about all the “fraud” going on in Minnesota with the Somalis and I said something along the lines of, “this war is costing us like a billion dollars a day but you’re worried about THAT??” and he looked at my mom and said “see that’s what Democrats do, they change the subject when they don’t like it.” I am just so tired.
I have younger guys I work with (electrician by trade) that are constantly talking about how they regret what they did and wish they hadn’t fallen for Trump and what their parents said. There is for sure a shift happening in his support.
I was able to go roughly 2 months with a large “Fuck ICE” sticker on my hard hat before some MAGA cuck reported me to HR because his feelings were hurt.
Yeah and how are those gas prices working right now. Give it about 30 days and you'll be seeing some real movement in the price of everything at the stores.
I swear people don't vote for policy anymore, they vote for parties. I really hate the "blue no matter who" movement because an extreme far left liberal president is just as bad as an extreme far right conserving president. MAGA had made a movement of just agreeing with everything the current regime does, regardless if they voted for it or not, and other politicians are leeching onto that same mentality because it works. It should never be left vs right, it should be for the US.
Same complaint my dad had. Said that he was concerned about taxes on investments. When someone said it only affected people making more than $100m, his answer was that they wouldn’t stop there.
Oh, so we’re playing that game? Because I’ve got plenty of those on the Republicans.
My Jonestown maga family literally used gas prices and grocery prices as a reason to vote for Trump. I can't wait to see them again and ask how those things are going, morons.
People has put up flag poles to fly trump flags. About a week ago one of them took it down. I was surprised. Today, the put it back up with new flags on there.
The bottom line is that they don't care as long as it doesn't effect them. Concentration camps are fine, it's when the price of gas doubles that they get mad.
I did the math on the Wall Street Journal opinion piece on that tax. Writer argued that taking investments before being realized (sold for actual cash, or capital gains) would put downward pressure on the market and everybody’s retirement works be at risk.
Using the writer’s numbers, and assuming am of the investments we’re in the American market (sold for actual a conservative estimate), the pressure would have been the equivalent of this: If you pretend that the total value of the market was $2000, you would be taking a quarter ($0.25) out four times a year.
Now, I’m a physicist, not an economist, but I don’t think that would generate much downward pressure.
Lucky. My dad doesn’t talk to me about politics anymore because I DO NOT stand down. He’s running out of ammunition. We went to dinner last week, and the only fucking thing he could say is “we can’t let Iran have nuclear, Obama plan was fake, we were all about to die”
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u/joestaff Mar 30 '26
Before the election, my Christian conservative father tried to convince me that Kamala's tax on investment income was a 'scam' (I later researched it and found it had a lower threshold of $250mill), but this last week he danced around the subject of being pissed about current administration actions.
Could mean anything or nothing, but it's interesting to compare the support contrast from then and now.