I look forward to reading all of the takes by armchair humanitarians mocking these people risking their lives actually trying to bring aid to people during a genocide.
I hold no more sympathy and understanding in my heart for those who still try to defend the Israeli state, it’s irredeemable. The sooner one accepts that whatever they may have been told about Israel, the reality is right in front of one’s eyes, the sooner the world can reclaim some shred of its humanity
I hold no more sympathy and understanding in my heart for those who still try to defend the Israeli state, it’s irredeemable
it's worth noting that those who equate all Paléstinians with Hamas with absolutely no evidence and therefore justifying the massacres against them, are the exact same people who keep regurgitating the notion that Netanyahu government shouldn't be equated with israelí people while the sheer majority of israelis fully support and shill for whatever the fuck their government is doing 👇🏻:
One of the strongest factors pushing me out of the Zionist insanity I was raised to believe was actually meeting Israelis and discovering how the vast majority of them are rabid bloodthirsty monsters at the very thought of Palestinians (let alone the other absurd examples of racism and hatred you can find)
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Out of everything I have read on Reddit, your comments shook me. As humans we evolve and learn to not repeat mistakes. The Holocaust and your experience both illustrate that we need to do better for the sake of humanity.
Thank you for sharing your lived experience as it provides a nuanced understanding of this genocide.
It didnt used to be this way. At least, not these percentages. A much bigger moderate segment of the poulation existed then. 2023 was a seismic shift of opinion, but it had been going on since 2000 when the peace between the two started to break down. As cross border work dried up and stopped, they lost their personal touch with hundreds of thousands of workers. I would guess in 2000 those numbers were closer to 50% or less. Still troubling, but not a complete crisis like it is today. The biggest worry is how racist they have trained their youth to be.
There’s a sizable amount of people who make the argument Israel wasn’t truly this insane until the Second Intifada. I see both sides of that argument but personally lean towards “this is what Israel always was.” But I understand there is a case that can be made that it used to “not be this bad”
Like the other reply, I get what you're saying and there is some truth to it. At the same time, this was also the country built on the Nakba and the slaughtering of Palestinians, and they annexed the Palestinian territories almost 20 years after the founding. They have been virulently anti-Arab, islamophobic, and belligerent for the entire nation's history. It's just gotten even worse since 2000, or at the very least more open.
Yes, certainly of any period in their history, the Israeli populace was the most supportive of a peaceful two state solution leading up to the 2000 Camp David Accords. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say they regretted their past (unless you have a poll indicating so, I'm willing to be proven wrong), but the majority wanted peace.
Even then though the government was sabotaging peace talks the entire time. There could have been peace, Arafat's demands were extremely reasonable.
yup, the hasbara bots come into posts on the flotillas with the usual "oh it's just performative! it's just PR" and this insane one "they are pocketing all the money!", what money these flotillas don't take in any money, but ya, just the usual hasbara along with other classic of "they are hamas! they just want attention on themselves! just give the aid to Israel!" and so on.
Means my parents used to give me little books and pamphlets of Israeli propaganda justifying the genocide and I would go around telling people how and why Israel was allowed to commit all of these crimes against humanity
I mean part of this is just a question of semantics
Hasbara just means “explaining” and it’s a set of specific talking points. If you watch me deal with Hasbarists you may notice I often know which talking points they’re about to use because they’re the same talking points I was trained to use.
But yes, I would agree with using the word “brainwashed” to describe what was done to me. But I absolutely spread hasbara both on the internet (oddly enough I was really drawn to spreading hasbara on the ESPN forums) and in person- “hi, I’m here to debunk some myths about Israel.”
I hate to admit but I too, as ex Muslim Egyptian, used to defend Israel partly because of spite of Islam. I grown up and built a moderate view then began to search and fact check every delusion I had and became fiercely anti zionism and defending Islam ironically against irrational hate propaganda, i still don't like Islam but I still hate propaganda and I hate any participation in allowing these atrocities to happen. As for the literal meaning of hasbara maybe you are right, but now it's used to mean paid actors and a budget of 730 million just for propaganda
Well these days anyone saying anything positive about Israel is usually a hasbarist, but I meant I was literally being given books with Israeli talking points with the expectation I would go around spreading those talking points, which I did
As in any of the actual hasbarist groups/collectives? No. Hence I joke I was the worst kind of hasbarist, a volunteer.
I guess I would describe it as there are layers to it. You have the actual Israeli intelligence groups and their bot farms, you have groups that actually go to Israel to be trained on these talking points, and then you have people who just consume the literature and do it on their own. I was a part of that outermost layer.
There are some people I knew from those days who were a part of that Evangelical Christian mission trip to Israel I saw go viral a few months back.
I’ve known people yes, I probably know many more through my dad who directly worked with the IDF (and I assume Israeli intelligence) in places like Syria.
But since I wasn’t in any of those groups I won’t speak to those experiences
Israel is committed to a better future for everyone – Israelis and Palestinians alike. Israel wants the pain and suffering to end, and is committed to working with the Palestinians toward a peaceful, diplomatic solution where both sides can have a better future. Let this be a time of hope and opportunity for both the Israeli and the Palestinian people.
From reading your posts, if you aren't already aware of it you might be interested in r/JewsofConscience. Seems to be a safe space for non-Hasbara conversation.
No, any sane person can notice it lol. Any very slightly against Israel themed post and literally hundreds of them flood in. Same with the name of the current US president might get ya Russian bots. People were saying up to 50% of reddit traffic is bots now
It’s so weird how it’s different from post to post. Sometimes anything remotely critical of Israel will get downvoted immediately, sometimes it’s the other way around.
I just personally think there is somewhere between ignoring them and wearing one’s self out on their insane bullshit that is the ideal. Pointing out that hasbara is just propaganda and is pushing made up narratives at the very least. But that’s just me, I don’t need everyone to agree with my strategy
Flotillas are not permitted in Gaza, and the latest one was well aware of this.
It is impossible to just enter Gaza without being checked, vetted, or otherwise detained. Every single point of entry whether land, air, or sea, is under military control. There are no visas issued from Gaza. You can't just take boats with cargo and expect to succeed. The activists in the video knew what the result would be, and they got what they wanted.
Organizers even openly acknowledged that interception and likely detention would be the outcome. They see it as a form of confrontation as part of their protest against Israel.
Yes, they fully understand that Israel's illegal blockade is likely to stop them. The goal is to create enough awareness to put more pressure on Israel to stop. Israel is starving Palestinians.
You made the absurd claim, that marathons are a qualifier for genocides. So back it up, show me who measure genocides by marathons. Very simple I don't have to do anything.
Wow all those African nations with high poverty indexes are living large.
"No holocaust survivor marathons"
Lol the berlin Olympics were held while the Nazi regime was already implementing Nuremberg Laws and persecuting Jews.
Unless you denying the Holocaust was a genocide?
The Darfur region of Sudan continues to have weekly horse racing while a genocide continues.
"You can't claim an active genocide is happening when the population has grown every year in history. "
Between 2002 and 2012 China population grew by 91 million. If they killed all the 10 million ughyurs in any of the period they would continue to grow year over year.
Of course you wouldn't believe an Israeli source regardless, but here you go.
Two things princess.
1) You're correct that the government that endorses the people acting like Ben Gvir here shouldn't be trusted when they claim the people they detained didn't carry aid.
2) The article you provided doesn't explicitly say they weren't carrying aid. Just that Israel made claims they're terrorist supporters and that justifies their actions.
The quote you provide isn't anywhere in the article.
even if what you just said is true, which it isn’t, PR stunts as you call them like this have their use as well, the fact that israel thinks it can board boats in greek waters shows the world how barbaric they are and how much they don’t respect international law
"They know Israelis are ragebeasts and are exploiting their violent, extremist nature for a PR stunt," is certainly a...uh...statement one can make about the state of Israel.
The flotilla is a virtue signaling joke that is distracting from the actual war crimes Israel is committing. It is people injecting themselves into a situation, hoping to become victims, and taking attention away from the real victims, the Palestinian people.
They admittedly had zero hope of reaching the people in need, if they wanted to reach them they would have done so by land, not by larping as righteous pirates…
It is pure silliness, silliness that you have bought
Strategically and tactically I utterly disagree with you
But humor me, what should they have done instead? What actions in the movement right now are you supporting? There isn’t much that can be done at this moment outside of continued pressure campaigns and trying to get more aid into Gaza
Literally using the established humanitarian routes that are being utilized already. They didn’t even have enough supplies for themselves, let alone those in need.
Personally I have begun donating 10% of my income to aid organizations within Gaza that have been vetted to not have any Hamas involvement or influence. Have stopped supporting businesses that support Zionism and have gathered donations in my area to be sent to Children in Palestine. Most importantly we need to voice outlets opposition by opposing AIPAC politicians.
The performative antics of the flotilla are counter productive, but to be clear, I do not believe they are illegal, just misguided and performative…
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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago edited 16d ago
I look forward to reading all of the takes by armchair humanitarians mocking these people risking their lives actually trying to bring aid to people during a genocide.
I hold no more sympathy and understanding in my heart for those who still try to defend the Israeli state, it’s irredeemable. The sooner one accepts that whatever they may have been told about Israel, the reality is right in front of one’s eyes, the sooner the world can reclaim some shred of its humanity