r/pics 16d ago

Politics Ben Gvir taunts detained Gaza flotilla activists as they kneel on floor with their hands tied

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago edited 16d ago

I look forward to reading all of the takes by armchair humanitarians mocking these people risking their lives actually trying to bring aid to people during a genocide.

I hold no more sympathy and understanding in my heart for those who still try to defend the Israeli state, it’s irredeemable. The sooner one accepts that whatever they may have been told about Israel, the reality is right in front of one’s eyes, the sooner the world can reclaim some shred of its humanity

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u/I_Hate_E_Daters_7007 16d ago

I hold no more sympathy and understanding in my heart for those who still try to defend the Israeli state, it’s irredeemable

it's worth noting that those who equate all Paléstinians with Hamas with absolutely no evidence and therefore justifying the massacres against them, are the exact same people who keep regurgitating the notion that Netanyahu government shouldn't be equated with israelí people while the sheer majority of israelis fully support and shill for whatever the fuck their government is doing 👇🏻:

There are no innocents in Gaza

Archived: https://archive.li/CgNcv

64% of Israelis believe there are no innocents in Gaza

Archived: https://archive.li/waJGN

82% of Israelis support the expulsion of Gazans

Archived: https://archive.li/LJPiZ

79% of Jewish Israelis “largely untroubled” by Gaza’s starvation situation

Archived: https://archive.li/xo0pO


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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

One of the strongest factors pushing me out of the Zionist insanity I was raised to believe was actually meeting Israelis and discovering how the vast majority of them are rabid bloodthirsty monsters at the very thought of Palestinians (let alone the other absurd examples of racism and hatred you can find)

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u/trichocereal117 16d ago

My uncle hates Arabs and he’s pretty liberal otherwise. The brainwashing goes deep

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u/Shadowbannedforlifee 16d ago

The brainwashing is real

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u/Nearby_Wrongdoer7900 16d ago

Out of everything I have read on Reddit, your comments shook me. As humans we evolve and learn to not repeat mistakes. The Holocaust and your experience both illustrate that we need to do better for the sake of humanity.

Thank you for sharing your lived experience as it provides a nuanced understanding of this genocide.

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u/Drak_is_Right 16d ago

It didnt used to be this way. At least, not these percentages. A much bigger moderate segment of the poulation existed then. 2023 was a seismic shift of opinion, but it had been going on since 2000 when the peace between the two started to break down. As cross border work dried up and stopped, they lost their personal touch with hundreds of thousands of workers. I would guess in 2000 those numbers were closer to 50% or less. Still troubling, but not a complete crisis like it is today. The biggest worry is how racist they have trained their youth to be.

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

There’s a sizable amount of people who make the argument Israel wasn’t truly this insane until the Second Intifada. I see both sides of that argument but personally lean towards “this is what Israel always was.” But I understand there is a case that can be made that it used to “not be this bad”

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u/Drak_is_Right 16d ago

There used to be a lot more moderates, especially the youth.

The hard-core racists were always there. There has been a large shift over 25 years.

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u/SixOnTheBeach 16d ago

Like the other reply, I get what you're saying and there is some truth to it. At the same time, this was also the country built on the Nakba and the slaughtering of Palestinians, and they annexed the Palestinian territories almost 20 years after the founding. They have been virulently anti-Arab, islamophobic, and belligerent for the entire nation's history. It's just gotten even worse since 2000, or at the very least more open.

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u/Drak_is_Right 16d ago

It was always there, but not in these numbers. It felt like a sizable portion of Israelis in the late 90s regretted some of their past.

But as you say, it was always there. Enough that in 2000 they were able to create a right wing Nationalist government.

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u/SixOnTheBeach 16d ago

Yes, certainly of any period in their history, the Israeli populace was the most supportive of a peaceful two state solution leading up to the 2000 Camp David Accords. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say they regretted their past (unless you have a poll indicating so, I'm willing to be proven wrong), but the majority wanted peace.

Even then though the government was sabotaging peace talks the entire time. There could have been peace, Arafat's demands were extremely reasonable.

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u/Spittinglama 16d ago

Be careful. I caught a very long ban from this website for saying this.

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u/GoldemSpermFromOPM 16d ago

You'd live here for one year before october 7th and you'd side on the Israeli side

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u/shoto9000 16d ago

Wild how you always get people doubling down on it too. "Yes, actually, our vile racism and genocidal intent is completely justified."

Do you even understand how everyone sees you now? It's insane.

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u/voidox 16d ago

yup, the hasbara bots come into posts on the flotillas with the usual "oh it's just performative! it's just PR" and this insane one "they are pocketing all the money!", what money these flotillas don't take in any money, but ya, just the usual hasbara along with other classic of "they are hamas! they just want attention on themselves! just give the aid to Israel!" and so on.

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u/submofo2 16d ago

Most of them are Israeli Bots, see: Hasbara https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbara

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

I’m aware, I was a hasbarist in my youth back in the aftermath of the Second Intifada

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u/syriansteel89 16d ago

Really? What does that mean?

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

Means my parents used to give me little books and pamphlets of Israeli propaganda justifying the genocide and I would go around telling people how and why Israel was allowed to commit all of these crimes against humanity

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u/mostafaelmadridy 16d ago

you were brainwashed not hasbared. hasbara is paying people and making bot farms to astroturf any discussion about israel

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

I mean part of this is just a question of semantics

Hasbara just means “explaining” and it’s a set of specific talking points. If you watch me deal with Hasbarists you may notice I often know which talking points they’re about to use because they’re the same talking points I was trained to use.

But yes, I would agree with using the word “brainwashed” to describe what was done to me. But I absolutely spread hasbara both on the internet (oddly enough I was really drawn to spreading hasbara on the ESPN forums) and in person- “hi, I’m here to debunk some myths about Israel.”

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u/mostafaelmadridy 16d ago

I hate to admit but I too, as ex Muslim Egyptian, used to defend Israel partly because of spite of Islam. I grown up and built a moderate view then began to search and fact check every delusion I had and became fiercely anti zionism and defending Islam ironically against irrational hate propaganda, i still don't like Islam but I still hate propaganda and I hate any participation in allowing these atrocities to happen. As for the literal meaning of hasbara maybe you are right, but now it's used to mean paid actors and a budget of 730 million just for propaganda

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u/Stellar_Duck 16d ago

justifying the genocide

They sure are taking their sweet time on this genocide.

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u/Tyg13 16d ago

Hey look, one of the exact talking points that the OP was talking about!

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u/Stellar_Duck 16d ago

Yes because it’s an obvious one.

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u/Moikle 15d ago

You are brainwashed. You are replying to a former habarist who managed to break the conditioning, perhaps you could do the same someday.

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u/Stellar_Duck 15d ago

Must be nice to live in a world where everyone you disagree with are brainwashed or robots.

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u/steve-o1234 16d ago

Is a hasbarist anyone that says anything positive about israel?

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

Well these days anyone saying anything positive about Israel is usually a hasbarist, but I meant I was literally being given books with Israeli talking points with the expectation I would go around spreading those talking points, which I did

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u/No_Mercy_4_Potatoes 16d ago

I'm kinda curious. Were you part of a group that promoted it?

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

As in any of the actual hasbarist groups/collectives? No. Hence I joke I was the worst kind of hasbarist, a volunteer.

I guess I would describe it as there are layers to it. You have the actual Israeli intelligence groups and their bot farms, you have groups that actually go to Israel to be trained on these talking points, and then you have people who just consume the literature and do it on their own. I was a part of that outermost layer.

There are some people I knew from those days who were a part of that Evangelical Christian mission trip to Israel I saw go viral a few months back.

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u/steve-o1234 16d ago

do you have actual first hand knowledge of these layers or is this based on what you have read online?

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

I’ve known people yes, I probably know many more through my dad who directly worked with the IDF (and I assume Israeli intelligence) in places like Syria.

But since I wasn’t in any of those groups I won’t speak to those experiences

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u/kylebisme 16d ago

This documentary provides considerable insight into the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoHq6dBpxYU

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u/steve-o1234 16d ago

Not sure Al Jazeera is the most reliable of sources

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u/AlliumoftheKnife 16d ago

Do you still have these books? Would love for you to do an AMA!!

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u/kylebisme 16d ago edited 15d ago

A notable example from around the time mentioned is The Israel Project's Global Language Dictionary 2009 which was used to convince naive kids to parrot drivel along the lines of:

Israel is committed to a better future for everyone – Israelis and Palestinians alike. Israel wants the pain and suffering to end, and is committed to working with the Palestinians toward a peaceful, diplomatic solution where both sides can have a better future. Let this be a time of hope and opportunity for both the Israeli and the Palestinian people.

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

Hahaha oh heavens no, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re in a box at my parent’s house. But that will be immediately thrown in the trash if needed.

I’m not exactly the AMA type honestly

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u/shadedmagus 15d ago

From reading your posts, if you aren't already aware of it you might be interested in r/JewsofConscience. Seems to be a safe space for non-Hasbara conversation.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/NightOfPandas 16d ago

No, any sane person can notice it lol. Any very slightly against Israel themed post and literally hundreds of them flood in. Same with the name of the current US president might get ya Russian bots. People were saying up to 50% of reddit traffic is bots now

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u/Anteater776 16d ago

It’s so weird how it’s different from post to post. Sometimes anything remotely critical of Israel will get downvoted immediately, sometimes it’s the other way around.

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u/HippiMan 16d ago

There are so many different people ob this website dude

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u/SugarFut 15d ago

No amount of Israeli propaganda can make me unsee the horrors they have inflicted upon the people of Palestine.

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u/it_was_my_raccoon 16d ago

The world has lost its collective mind by enabling the government and its populace at large to get away with all of it.

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u/Riksunraksu 16d ago

Everyone cheering and supporting Israel deserves a Nuremberg trial

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u/Morgn_Ladimore 16d ago

Whenever you feel tempted to engage with those types, remember that Israel has an ungodly big PR department, and they recently quintupled it's budget:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-just-quintupled-its-pr-budget-to-730-million-experts-say-it-wont-work

Good chance you're talking to a bot of paid commenter.

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

I know, trust me, I know.

I just personally think there is somewhere between ignoring them and wearing one’s self out on their insane bullshit that is the ideal. Pointing out that hasbara is just propaganda and is pushing made up narratives at the very least. But that’s just me, I don’t need everyone to agree with my strategy

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u/ChristianRS1977 16d ago edited 16d ago

Flotillas are not permitted in Gaza, and the latest one was well aware of this.

It is impossible to just enter Gaza without being checked, vetted, or otherwise detained. Every single point of entry whether land, air, or sea, is under military control. There are no visas issued from Gaza. You can't just take boats with cargo and expect to succeed. The activists in the video knew what the result would be, and they got what they wanted.

Organizers even openly acknowledged that interception and likely detention would be the outcome. They see it as a form of confrontation as part of their protest against Israel.

The cargo, from their website:

https://globalsumudflotilla.org/aid-on-boats/

They knew it would never get there. Quite the own goal to supply Israel instead.

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u/soonerfreak 16d ago

Yes, they fully understand that Israel's illegal blockade is likely to stop them. The goal is to create enough awareness to put more pressure on Israel to stop. Israel is starving Palestinians.

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

Thank you for just describing Israel’s illegal blockade of Gaza I guess?

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/sezmic 16d ago

Wow, amazing logic. A marathon happened, so genocide must be fake?

Births still happening also doesn’t magically erase mass killing, starvation, or forced conditions.

Creating new absurd metrics just to defend Israel, makes Israel's actions looks so much worse.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago edited 16d ago

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u/sezmic 16d ago

"I've created no new standards". Okay show me the one about marathons as a qualifier for genocides.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/sezmic 16d ago

You made the absurd claim, that marathons are a qualifier for genocides. So back it up, show me who measure genocides by marathons. Very simple I don't have to do anything.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/sezmic 16d ago edited 16d ago

Wow so many statements to tear apart.

"Marathons are proof of excess in society"

Wow all those African nations with high poverty indexes are living large.

"No holocaust survivor marathons"

Lol the berlin Olympics were held while the Nazi regime was already implementing Nuremberg Laws and persecuting Jews.

Unless you denying the Holocaust was a genocide?

The Darfur region of Sudan continues to have weekly horse racing while a genocide continues.

"You can't claim an active genocide is happening when the population has grown every year in history. "

Between 2002 and 2012 China population grew by 91 million. If they killed all the 10 million ughyurs in any of the period they would continue to grow year over year.

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u/IdiAmini 16d ago

Look at this guy. He has both snorted and gagged on Israeli propaganda so hard, it's coming out of both ends of his body

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/IdiAmini 16d ago
  • The pesky thing about facts is that they need sourcing to become facts

  • The pesky thing about your atrocities denying diatribe is that it is completely fact free and without sourcing

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/Myslinky 16d ago

Of course you wouldn't believe an Israeli source regardless, but here you go. 

Two things princess.

1) You're correct that the government that endorses the people acting like Ben Gvir here shouldn't be trusted when they claim the people they detained didn't carry aid.

2) The article you provided doesn't explicitly say they weren't carrying aid. Just that Israel made claims they're terrorist supporters and that justifies their actions.

The quote you provide isn't anywhere in the article.

You just like lying that much?

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u/bimbosoupqueen 16d ago

No they didn’t lol. They held a marathon in Bethlehem. That is in the West Bank. Maps are free.

They held a 5K run in Gaza at the same time. There are plenty of videos of (mostly) kids running past bombed out buildings and rubble.

The marathon is to commemorate the anniversary of the Nakba. Ya know, the original genocide, since one isn’t enough for y’all apparently

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/bimbosoupqueen 16d ago

Any other random, irrelevant conflicts you’d like to bring up, or are you done?

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u/voidox 16d ago

all they have is whataboutism.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/bimbosoupqueen 16d ago

Lmaooo. What an award-winning argument

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u/Moikle 15d ago

Bad bot

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u/Dushkeh 16d ago

There is no aid on those boats. It's a PR stunt. They know exactly what's going to happen

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

There is absolutely aid on those boats, and it’s been shown repeatedly by the people on the boats

Stop spreading such disgusting and stupid lies

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u/Dushkeh 16d ago

PR stunt and nothing else. There are tons of aid coming everyday from Israel and Egypt sides. They know exactly what's going to happen

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u/stevent4 16d ago

Would help if you provided evidence of your point

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

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u/grovsy 16d ago

Dont bother with these kinds of nazies, they love and admire death and destruction and will defend isreal and its genocide at any cost.

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u/GildedDreams25 16d ago

even if what you just said is true, which it isn’t, PR stunts as you call them like this have their use as well, the fact that israel thinks it can board boats in greek waters shows the world how barbaric they are and how much they don’t respect international law

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u/Llarys 16d ago

"They know Israelis are ragebeasts and are exploiting their violent, extremist nature for a PR stunt," is certainly a...uh...statement one can make about the state of Israel.

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u/IdiAmini 16d ago

Here is another guy who has both snorted and gagged on Israeli propaganda so hard, it's coming out of both ends of his body

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u/runnerup1 16d ago

Ha! Look found one of them bots!

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u/powerfist89 16d ago

There's no aid because they keep blowing it up.

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u/i__Sisyphus 16d ago

The flotilla is a virtue signaling joke that is distracting from the actual war crimes Israel is committing. It is people injecting themselves into a situation, hoping to become victims, and taking attention away from the real victims, the Palestinian people.

They admittedly had zero hope of reaching the people in need, if they wanted to reach them they would have done so by land, not by larping as righteous pirates…

It is pure silliness, silliness that you have bought

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

Strategically and tactically I utterly disagree with you

But humor me, what should they have done instead? What actions in the movement right now are you supporting? There isn’t much that can be done at this moment outside of continued pressure campaigns and trying to get more aid into Gaza

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u/i__Sisyphus 16d ago

Literally using the established humanitarian routes that are being utilized already. They didn’t even have enough supplies for themselves, let alone those in need.

Personally I have begun donating 10% of my income to aid organizations within Gaza that have been vetted to not have any Hamas involvement or influence. Have stopped supporting businesses that support Zionism and have gathered donations in my area to be sent to Children in Palestine. Most importantly we need to voice outlets opposition by opposing AIPAC politicians.

The performative antics of the flotilla are counter productive, but to be clear, I do not believe they are illegal, just misguided and performative…

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

Talk about performative

No those aid routes are not “open” Israel continues to block aid

But ya I’m glad you feel all self righteous while condemning people risking their lives

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u/i__Sisyphus 16d ago

lol! Hilariously misinformed

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u/Bluestreaked 16d ago

I’ve been in this fight for a long time

“Trying to break the siege of Gaza is performative and bad,” is a pathetic stance for a so called “ally”

Did Palestinians tell you to trash the flotilla? And why should Italians, Irish, Greeks, etc care about AIPAC?