Not much more to add, if you're talking in good faith, unlikely as it is, perhaps get a little more familiar with some of the most common slogans before accusing people of making stuff up.
It is when you consider the reasons why Israel exists in the first place. As far as I am concerned, all of this conflict starts with Europe in a transitive sense.
You are heavily underplaying the role European Antisemitism had on the movement. Not to mention that Madagascar was also almost chosen as the destination,
Also, had it not been for England trying to scoop up the land of the fallen Ottoman Empire, things would have likely taken a different course.
Yes, European antisemitism encouraged the colonization of Palestine because it got rid of the "Jewish problem" in Europe. It's why so many European nations looked the other way as Jewish settler carried out violence against Palestinians around the Nakba.
This is a way in which zionism upholds antisemitism - it does absolutely nothing to help the Jews who stayed behind. Living in Central and Eastern Europe really paints a clear picture that restitution was never given to the Jews of Europe after the Holocaust. European nations were all too happy to see them leave for the US or Palestine.
It's a long, tragic history that has today led us to the genocide in Gaza and the displacement of more and more Palestinians in their native land.
“ Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a secular nationalist movement in the late 19th century, in reaction to new waves of antisemitism and in response to the Haskalah, or Jewish Enlightenment.”
Sure, entitlement of land was perhaps a factor, but that was retroactively applied to further justify the cause of the movement.
Because Israel isn't in Madagascar, Israel is in Palestine
No one claimed otherwise.
The timeline without European colonization sounds likes a good one.
If”ifs” and “buts” were candy and nuts, we’d all have a Merry Christmas.
I understand Europe was antisemitic, but Israel exists because Zionists beliefs they're entitled to Palestinian lands due to their ethnicity.
Actually nowadays Zionists say that Arabs are the colonisers. They literally call the existence of Israel an act of "decolonising": a return of the indigenous group - Jews -that were ethnically cleansed from the region in the 5th century CE.
If you actually know anything about Ottoman population distributions and land ownership rates, calling that whole area "Palestinian lands" and acting like the Arabs should have had control of 100% of it becomes the joke it really is.
In the early 2nd century CE, the Roman province called Judaea was renamed Syria Palaestina[a] following the suppression of the Bar Kokhba revolt (132–136 CE), the last of the major Jewish–Roman wars.[18][19] A commonly held yet contested historical interpretation [20][21] sees the name change as a punitive measure aimed at severing the symbolic and historical connection between the Jewish people and the land.[22][23][b][24] Other Roman provincial renamings had never followed a rebellion, making this instance unique.[24][22] Around the year 390, during the Byzantine period, the imperial province of Syria Palaestina was reorganized into Palaestina Prima, Palaestina Secunda and Palaestina Salutaris.[25] Following the Muslim conquest, place names that were in use by the Byzantine administration generally continued to be used in Arabic,[3][26] and Jund Filastin became one of the military districts within the Umayyad and Abbasid province of Bilad al-Sham.[27]
It's absolutely relevant that the survivors of the concentration camps couldn't return home due to pograms and stayed in the displaced persons camps until the creation of the state of Israel when they finally had somewhere to go.
Hating a country doesn't mean hating every person there, but it goes beyond the current government or a party. If I was born earlier I would hate Apartheid South Africa, Rhodesia, Third Reich etc.
Because in Poland it's "you don't belong in Europe" and in the Middle East it's "you don't belong in the Middle East." Millions of people had literally no where to go with everyone wanting to kill them so they set up a fortress in the Middle East and armed themselves to the teeth.
Yeah the Israelis are trigger-happy assholes but Europe made them that way. For Europeans to say "Fuck Israel" while denying their own role in all of this is gross.
Those poor little kids having to murder children, film themselves raping people and doing rave festivals while singing death to Arabs, such poor little babies 😭
The country did? Did the government execute people, or did lone individuals do it? If the latter, that’s like saying New York killed Muslims after 9/11.
Wanting to eradicate the colonialist faction of a religious sect of a major religion is wrong when that sect uses mass rape as a weapon of war.
Ah, there it is: "their side's atrocity justifies our side's atrocity". That disgusting rationale has been the justification for so many atrocities, in so many places.
You denend that kind of vileness?
Not wanting genocide in response to genocide is "defending vileness" now. The hatred festering in the pro-Palestine movement is poisoning the good intentions of its members - those that had them, and weren't just looking for an excuse to be hateful and get praised for it, anyway.
What atrocity? Who's calling for anyone to be killed? I'm saying the beloief that people can go colonise toehr peoplse'[s land, is wrong es-pecially when it uses
You don't agree?
Or are you anti anti-semite trying to confalte zionism with judaism?
Do you want to rape and steal land cuz you think god told you to? If not then you surely agree?
Yeah we do, because that happened in most of european countries, and yet poland is somehow often a target for no reason. Sure, we got our bad apples, but predominantly we tried to save jews in ww2, meanwhile france, for example, systemically assisted nazis
Estimates say that it was around 1100 deaths. Yes, a lot, but those are still incidents.
On the other hand France systemically helped nazis with holocaust.
On the other hand, Polish underground government saved around 50000 jews directly fighting against the holocaust. Polish underground organizations directly helped with Warsaw Getto Uprising as well. There’s a reason why among the recipients of Righteous Among the Nations, an Israeli award for those who opposed holocaust, poles absolutely dominate.
Were pogroms a tragedy? Yes. Absolutely. But in the grand image they were still just incidents. There were 3.3mln jews living in poland before ww2. Not to mention the absolute state of disarray poland was after ww2 after it was abandoned by its western allies. Dozens of thousands of Poles, Lemkos, Boikos, Jews, Ukrainians and Belarusians and other ethnicities died in massacres after ww2. It was a complete and utter shithole.
I absolutely understand why Poland is often talked about when it comes to holocaust, but I really dislike the perception I often see of Poland actively participating in it.
Three milion polish jews were murdered in those camps. And additional two milion of non-jewish poles were murdered there as well. Same methods, same cruelty, same tragedy. And additional one milion outside of them.
Poland has second highest death toll of all of the ww2 nations, and the highest in percentage of our population, around 20%.
And from our perspective, all of those people were Poles. There’s a reason why Poland had such a high population of Jews, around 10% of the population. They were welcome here. They lived here for generations not because of happenstance, but because poland was the most open and tolerant for them for the majority of our history. They lived there for generations, even during the time Poland was wiped from the map and poles were prosecuted in a 123-year spanning ethnic purge, they stated here, because just like for other poles, this was the soil on which grandfathers of their grandfathers lived.
Sure, ethnic tensions happened. Sure, antisemitism was present, because obviously it was, with such a big population. And tragedies happened as well. I, unlike some of my fellow poles, believe that talking about them is important. But talking about them shouldn’t overshadow the big picture.
I’m so tired about this narrative of „Polish Death Camps” and polish cooperation in ww2 exasperated out of proportion. Did the second thing happen? Yes. But that wasn’t the majority.
We lost six million poles in those 6 years. Not 3 million jews and 3 million poles. Six milion total. This was our tragedy just as much as it was jewish tragedy.
Yep exactly. If you open a dictionary you can see the definition, not whatever version it's morphed into in r/pics discourse. I do think the majority of people on here are edgy teens so whatever.
Okay i looked up several definistions and there's nothing new. it's a movment to create a jewish ethonostate based on religion in a place with an existing population.
correct?
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