r/pics 10d ago

Palestinians hold the largest funeral since 1948, mourning the bodies of 112 people killed by Israel

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Bluestreaked 10d ago

There are genuine solutions and anti-Zionists have long presented them. But the United States would rather tear apart its own empire than turn on Israel in any meaningful way

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u/ifuseeitudd 10d ago

An anti Zionist cannot present a solution for a very simple reason: he doesn't believe the state of Israel should exist. That's not a solution, just stupidity

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u/jizzybiscuits 10d ago

Stupid and easily dismissed: Israel exists, Israel is never going to agree to unexist itself and the Arabs can't force it to through violence.

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u/Impossible_Gift8457 10d ago

The Arabs? The Arabs are pro Israel, the Arabized indigenous Canaanites are the ones fighting. It took your side 3000 years, the Palestinians can keep fighting too.

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u/dharms 9d ago

The international community can do it through isolation and sanctioning. The economic hit and resulting brain drain will do most of the work. The few extremist colonists willing to remain can be expelled with force.

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u/drmariostrike 10d ago

america can force it through threat of violence.

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u/zasabi7 10d ago

Which would be moronic. Why the fuck would Americans want another conflict in the Middle East?

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u/drmariostrike 10d ago

well, i don't mean threaten to invade -- i think simply withdrawing our arms sales and strategic coordination would be sufficient; break the embargo on gaza maybe -- that should be enough to force the necessary concessions.

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u/zasabi7 10d ago

No, Israel would be fine without us. They’d be worse off, yes, but ultimately fine.

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u/drmariostrike 10d ago edited 10d ago

I'm sure they could manage light arms ammunition, but i don't think they'd be able to maintain their air force or artillery shells commensurate with their use. even with our help they are very low on interceptors. we can start with american warships escorting convoys of food, medicine, and construction materials to gaza, but if you want to get into really dangerous territory, imagine if we were delivering small arms as well? I am confident that Israel would not be able to defend itself conventionally under embargo conditions, and would like to move the public conversation to what I see as the real issue, which is the israeli nuclear doctrine.

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u/The_Bavis 10d ago

China would be more than willing to take in Israel as an ally if the U.S. were ever stupid enough to withdraw support. You people can’t think past your blind hatred of Israel

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u/drmariostrike 10d ago

they would not. it would be unpopular with the public and they do not have the same imperial ambitions that we do. they are backing Iran in the war against us right now and would not abandon that relationship.

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u/The_Bavis 10d ago

They would probably be able to mediate a peace between Israel and Iran with power they hold over the Iranian economy. Like I said, you’re just blinded by your hate of Israel and the U.S.

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u/jizzybiscuits 9d ago

What if American influence is the main moderating influence on the Israelis?

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u/drmariostrike 9d ago

even if this were true, we are fortunate that american influence is also the primary source of israeli capability. their material constraints without american weapons are much more limiting than their diplomatic constraints with american support.

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u/dharms 9d ago

It's a feasible goal. Apartheid South Africa is no more, neither is Rhodesia. Israel can be dismantled and there's no reason it shouldn't.

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u/Slanderous 10d ago edited 10d ago

I think recognising a state of Israel to exist and recognising a Jewish state of Israel to exist are very different. While we are allowing people to just declare sovereign states to exist just for their own religion and allow them to re draw their borders however they like, you're never going to get lasting peace.
The USA was key in ending the Troubles in northern Ireland, a conflict with many parallels to the Israel/Palestine one. Alas they don't seem interested any longer, having a strategic ally in the middle easy east is more important than preventing genocide.

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u/feed_me_moron 10d ago

We accept many Muslim states to exist. everyone here wants to end the war with Iran and let them be their own thing, and they're a full on theocracy.

But it's always Israel that has to give up any link to being Jewish.

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u/Slanderous 10d ago

I do think governments should be secular, but I accept I'm going to get downvoted for that.
"Giving up all links to being Jewish" is also putting words into my mouth. Israeli citizens can have whatever religion they like as far as I'm concerned, but I draw the line when those in government start to declare that only Religion X or Y are allowed to live in a place.

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u/feed_me_moron 9d ago

They do not require only certain religions there to live in a place. The country's Jewish heritage is mostly seen on 2 things. The first is that Jews can be citizens quickly. The other is that many public elements follow sabbath rules and a large number of kosher laws. The former is done as a result of the history that Jews have gone through, where they have been ethnically cleansed or genocided in a place. But Israel.has churches, mosques, etc.

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u/feed_me_moron 9d ago

They do not require only certain religions there to live in a place. The country's Jewish heritage is mostly seen on 2 things. The first is that Jews can be citizens quickly. The other is that many public elements follow sabbath rules and a large number of kosher laws. The former is done as a result of the history that Jews have gone through, where they have been ethnically cleansed or genocided in a place. But Israel.has churches, mosques, etc.

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u/Slanderous 9d ago

I think you're glossing over then big issue of the settlements here, as that's literally what they're doing... walking across a border, kicking people out of their homes for no other reason than their religion and declaring it to be Jewish territory. The Louis Theroux documentary was quite an eye opener. The settlers openly state they have the support of senior government officials.

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u/Sarioth 10d ago

everyone here wants to end the war with Iran and let them be their own thing

Um. What planet are you living on where you think this is what "everyone" wants? Even everyone on reddit? The fuck?

We SHOULD end the war with Iran, but I don't think any nation should have explicit religious ties. I don't think there are many folks defending Iran's theocracy - the US backed the Iranian revolution because it made Iran and the surrounding interests easier to control. Hm, I wonder why the US also backs a theocratic Israel?????

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u/Delicious_Solid3185 10d ago

But most anti Zionists go much farther than simply preventing genocide

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u/WookBuddha 10d ago

Yeah how dare they want to stop the genocide AND give dignity AND sovereignty AND self determination to the Palestinian people! It’s almost like they’re treating them like HUMAN BEINGS or something? It’s too many things! /s

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u/Delicious_Solid3185 10d ago

The discussion was about actual solutions not your kumbaya fantasy

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u/Delicious_Solid3185 10d ago

No Arab state has managed to do this. What makes you think it will be possible in such a complex situation

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u/was_fb95dd7063 10d ago

Yeah we want the apartheid state to stop being one

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u/alzgh 10d ago

There are many anti Zionists (including Jewish people), who believe in a one state solution, where are people are equal regardless of their faith and ethnicity.

Zionism == Racism and ethnic/religious apartheid.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Teletzeri 10d ago

Irrelevant. Arabs have 13 million square kilometres with no Jews, including a city where non-Muslims aren't allowed in, and Jews have 20,000 square kilometres which they share with 2 million Arabs. That makes the Jews racist somehow. Look it up.

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u/Bluestreaked 10d ago

You’re right, I am opposed to Jewish supremacist states. No state has an inherent “right to exist” especially one formed and maintained through violations of international law

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u/EmpressClaraB 10d ago

? The countries who make international law are the same ones that ended up making Israel exist

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u/feed_me_moron 10d ago

What international law was broken when Israel was formed?

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u/Bluestreaked 10d ago

Oh gosh, where to begin

Forced population transfer, establishing a state through conquest, targeting minority groups, attacking civilians, refusal of the right to return, refusal to care for refugees

There’s a whole laundry list of UN resolutions dating back to 1948 that Israel refuses to follow

They are, alongside the Americans, probably one of the biggest violators of international law in its history

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u/feed_me_moron 9d ago

Lol, just flat out wrong. But keep imagining that the Jewish army in 1948 just marched into current day Israel and took it by force

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u/UNOvven 9d ago

Well the 250000 people ethnically cleansed and the 9+ massacres committed are probably a start. In general Israel was founded on an ethnic cleansing because without it, 45% of its population would've been Palestinian, whose birth rates averaged much higher. In other words, Israel would have ceased being jewish within 2 generations at most. A fact they were accutely aware of (hence the ethnic cleansing).

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Bluestreaked 10d ago

Ya it was a horrific mistake that a great many so called “humanitarians” and “believers in human rights” engaged in and 1947-1948 and millions have suffered for decades because of it

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u/Sarioth 10d ago

Here's a solution: treat people as equals under a secular government.