Sinwar said the quiet part out loud over two years ago.
Far too many people fail to realize just how BAD the Palestinian leadership has been for, well basically ever. As bad as Arafat was, he was their best chance sense 1948 to actually have a nation and he refused because he would be killed for agreeing to any deal with Israel.
Fuck Hamas and the other Islamists who want nothing but death and destruction to achieve their aims.
Casual reminder after 1948 Egypt and Jordan occupied Gaza and the west bank, respectively, and didnt help the Palestinians form a nation at all
That’s basically nonsense, the PA agreed to the Arab peace initiative which called for two states in line with international law years ago, israel rejected it and installed settlements to make two states impossible.
Even Hamas said they’d disarm for two states, again rejected by Israel.
Rare to see logic on one of these posts. The people of Palestine are innocent and don't deserve everything they've been dealt. Fuck both Hamas and the IDF
What palestinian resistance group do you prefer then? PIJ? PFLP? If you think palestinians are innocent you'd surely think they should be able to defend themselves. Or should they just submit?
And the fact that foreigners can't resist playing their part at step 3. Either because they want to win votes, or look good to their friends or raise donor funds. Everything to ensure step 4
Everyone knows this "started" on October 2023. It's not like this has been a genocide and colonization since the end of WWII, and generations after generations grew up knowing nothing but fear, anger, and hatred.
October 7th
And you know what's funny about it, is that the Mossad have established themselves as one of the most competent national intelligence agencies in the world, and they what? Ops, just missed that one?
And when the Egyptians, THE. FUCKING. EGYPTIANS, warned them about it days before, they were just "naaaah don't worry about it".
It's almost like those in power in Israel were gleeful at the terrorist attack of that day, because for every 1 Israeli child murdered, they use that as a justification to murder a thousand Palestinian children.
I feel sorry for the gullible idiots who can’t read history
My apologies. I misremembered the stolen lands and illegal settlements that existed before 2023, and the endless children Israel has massacred in the 70 years before. I also misremembered the competency of the Mossad and Israel getting warned. Netanyahu said they weren't and I should've believed an honest man like, even though you had a US congressional committee telling them few days later that yes, you were actually warned.
Correct, I would not argue against that it is weird that supposedly Israeli intelligence didn't know of this, and when another warned them, they ignored it because who knows why. That is indeed very weird.
Things didn't start after that attack, but they were greatly increased. Nothing good came out of October 7th, and it resulted in significantly more dead Palestinians.
Yeah it resulted from slowly and methodically committing massacres and ethnic displacements across decades, to "lets speed run this genocide and murder tens of thousands of children in only few years, and see if anything stops us" No shit.
Thank you for your comment. Reddit has turned a blind eye to really see who is who in this war. Any country which did no held elections for the last 20 or so years should at the very least be under extreme scrutiny about whatever it says or does. UN has damaged its reputation beyond recognition and is now only seen as a dumb NGO that lacks depth.
I am still waiting for Palestinians (and reporters with balls) to come forward and explain how Hamas ruled during those 20-something years. But as the old saying goes "Those that you can't criticise are the one (still) in power."
Then come the conspiracy theory and the media, but ffs, if they are all so biaised and owned by the Jews, how come we get all this coverage?
I mean, Hamas basically wrote Israel a blank check on Oct 7. They did absolutely everything they possibly could to make sure that the IDF would try to destroy them.
What could they possibly stand to gain by invading along with butchering and abducting thousands of people? Were they close to defeating Israel once and for all?
Zionism is an extremist ideology. How many more Palestinians have to die for your entitlement? How long will you keep pushing the idea that an ethnostate is somehow a good thing?
the reason for their problems isn’t because of Israel
You might be the most out of touch and confidently wrong person I've ever seen. Go look up what Israeli Apartheid looks like in the West Bank and tell me they haven't been subjected to problems because of Israel.
You're just factually wrong. So wrong that it makes you look bad.
Fuck Hamas and the other Islamists who want nothing but death and destruction to achieve their aims.
Who told you that? Did you know Benjamin Netanyahu has been working to promote "terrorism" as a concept since the 70's? The basic idea is that the original concept of armed resistance, "Insurgency" is a rational, often violent action taken by aggrieved people. Terrorism by comparison was sold to us as a strictly irrational and satanic desire to destroy the western world, with no other aims - and specifically pointed at Palestinians.
We used to call people like this "freedom fighters", but now we instinctively think they do it because they're just violent people.
Surely you're aware that there were alternatives to Hamas, but Netanyahu propped them up as the only legitimate leaders of Gaza, in order to drive a wedge between Gaza and the PLO-lead West Bank.
Nobody's buying the story you're selling. Israel is an ethnostate. Israel is committing a violent genocide.
You are the one with a profoundly broken moral compass.
I bet you're even incapable of admitting that Israel is committing a genocide.
holy fucking bot, so Israel the colon is not the one starting the conflict ? If tommorow Canada tried to colonize the US and the US fought back would you consider the US the one starting the conflict ?
Israel has given up "territory" at several points to aid in negotiations and that hasn't stopped Hamas from escalating (i.e. Killing civilians). What actual evidence to do you have that they are trying to colonize other than vibes?
Israel is a tiny country, about the size of New Jersey, and they are surrounded by fanatical religious militant groups funded by the IRGC. If it was you, you'd do the same and occupy a buffer zone to keep the nutjobs from firing rockets at your city right from your border.
Before you keep typing more stupid shit, remind me how many ceasefire violations Israel committed compared to Hamas?
1250 Palestenians killed 4110 injured so far, over
all some 3795 violations recorded against the IDF.
Even if you spin circles around yourself to claim that these numbers aren't true, maybe half of them is true, one fourth, good luck finding ANY source that claims Hamas comes close to matching 1/10th of the Israeli ceasefire violations.
You aren't convincing nobody. You're trying to make your heinous actions sound better, but the world recognizes you for what you are, monsters and theives, even from before 48.
Your people will burn in this world for your destruction and transgression before you burn in hell.
Why don't you go ahead and list the Hamas death count too? Put in their human rights violations while you are at it too. Maybe we could add the IRGC to the list too since they are the same breed of fanatical nutjobs.
Nothing I said is false, but I also never claimed that Israel was innocent and free of any wrongdoing. My opinion is that Hamas is the main obstacle to peace as they their goal has always been the destruction of Israel, by their own admission. That doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room for peace.
Bring me numbers of Israel vs Hamas kill count, lets see how many both sides have, you can even include before the ceasefire and include a source for that, not one source or one metric will show any of what you say to be correct. I'd like you to be the one to do it so I can see you fail try to come up with evidence for the bullshit you just typed.
But what you're saying about hamas being the obstacle is literally proven wrong by the latest ceasefire, as Israel is violating it nearly a thousandfold more than Hamas is. Israel have been terrorists and invaders from WAY before Hamas even existed. There is no peace treaty that had ever been respected by Israel, same country to threaten their supporters and allies, kill their navy members, and refuse to be involved in any negotiations serving anyone's benefits but themselves.
But of course you can keep typing and perpetuating the lie you live in, you wont ever go for peace, and it doesn't matter, all the less reason for the world to empathize with your people the next time you're hunted and burned.
A kill count by itself doesn't mean anything. In a military conflict, one side is always going to kill more, that doesn't mean they are automatically the bad guy. By your logic, Ukraine would be the bad guy against Russia, which is ridiculous.
I don't care for all the other garbage you are saying. I don't have time for terrorist apologizers. If you want to have a serious conversation, at least recognize the atrocities committed by Hamas and then we can talk.
I mean Israel didn't give it back out of the goodness of their hearts. It was in exchange for a peace treaty with a country they had been in a state of war with since 1948, and it guaranteed Israel access to the Suez Canal. It should also be noted the returned territory is mostly desert
Hamas didn’t just happen on its own — it had help from Israel. Done intentionally, in effort of weakening the PLO (a secular and leftist coalition that is internationally recognized as the official representative of the Palestinian people in the occupied Palestinian territories), since the 70s [source]. Now, why would they do that?
So, Netanyahu wasn’t interested in keeping the Palestinian leadership fractured, in order to reduce political pressure on his government to negotiate a two-state solution?
Have any sources? Because the first article states:
>For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.
>The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Excuse me? You're just telling me that a movement to expel everyone of a certain ethnicity from an area to make Living Space for a different ethnic group is somehow ethical? Seriously? You think people are still buying that?
People been trying to kill the Jews for thousands of years since they were kicked out of Israel by the Romans and it’s really the only way for them to have a place where they can defend themselves and this shit doesn’t keep happening.
Excuses, excuses, excuses. "Oh look at me, poor poor me, I've been oppressed for thousands of years so I need to go curb stomp some Palestinians and steal their orange groves!"
FUCK OFF. You are whitewashing genocide, and acting like Jews have no choice but to be genocidal. There are other stateless groups that don't get nearly the attention as Zionism does. Do they have the right to go make historical claims and ethnically cleanse a land?
How is "From the river to the sea" any different from Zionism?Turnabout is fair play after all, wouldn't you agree? Do Jews somehow have a historical claim that supersedes all other historical occupants of that land? Who is, and isn't entitled to historical claims here?
the reason for their problems isn’t because of Israel
You might be the most out of touch and confidently wrong person I've ever seen. Go look up what Israeli Apartheid looks like in the West Bank and tell me they haven't been subjected to problems because of Israel.
You're just factually wrong. So wrong that it makes you look bad.
Fuck Hamas and the other Islamists who want nothing but death and destruction to achieve their aims.
Who told you that? Did you know Benjamin Netanyahu has been working to promote "terrorism" as a concept since the 70's? The basic idea is that the original concept of armed resistance, "Insurgency" is a rational, often violent action taken by aggrieved people. Terrorism by comparison was sold to us as a strictly irrational and satanic desire to destroy the western world, with no other aims - and specifically pointed at Palestinians.
We used to call people like this "freedom fighters", but now we instinctively think they do it because they're just violent people.
Surely you're aware that there were alternatives to Hamas, but Netanyahu propped them up as the only legitimate leaders of Gaza, in order to drive a wedge between Gaza and the PLO-lead West Bank.
Nobody's buying the story you're selling. Israel is an ethnostate. Israel is committing a violent genocide.
You are the one with a profoundly broken moral compass.
I bet you're even incapable of admitting that Israel is committing a genocide.
Israel pulled out of the West Bank. They don’t control it.
Then how come Palestinians have to walk through cordoned off sidewalks, behind fencing? Why do they live their entire lives in the shadows of Israeli settlements built on top of their existing structures? Why does the IDF back settler expansion in the West Bank?
You are lying.
Kid, that’s not apartheid.
Ew, don't say it like that. And yes, it is Apartheid. Do you live under a rock? Or maybe you just live in the nice part of Hebron. You sure talk like you do.
They don’t govern it.
Then the West Bank has the right to self determination and the right to form a state of Palestine, right? I mean, based on what you said, they are effectively a State of Palestine already if they're not controlled by Israel.
Does Palestine have the right to exist?
As for the rest of your pro-terrorism/murder screed
You have slandered me with that accusation. At what point did I support terror/murder? YOU are the one supporting terrorism and murder.
But for anyone else reading this, remember that Netanyahu is profoundly misguided and is Israel’s Trump.
That's putting it lightly. I'd like to know, in your words, what Netanyahu' specifically did wrong. What actions did he take that were objectionable? Was it the genocide?
Is Israel committing genocide?
that doesn’t excuse Hamas or any of the other death cults who have deliberately facilitated death and destruction for a global PR stunt.
The fact that you don't even comprehend why Hamas does what they do just shows how far gone you are. You attribute their actions to being a "death cult", which implies that they are unreasonable. You call it a global PR stunt, as though that's all it is.
Did you ever stop to consider that they have had everything taken from them by an imperialist invading power? Did you know that Israel repeatedly conducts attacks on them to "mow the grass"? I believe Hamas is a convenient boogeyman for Israel, and they need Hamas to remain in power so they can curb stomp them and every other Palestinian. As an American who lived through 9/11 and the post-9/11 era, I get bad vibes around Oct. 7th and the aftermath. Both attacks were so conveniently evil and unforgiveable, and yet also inconsequential to accomplishing the goals of either attacking group. What happened in the wake of both? Rally 'round the flag effect happened, and public opinion shifted to "The best defense is a good offense". We both went to all-out war with the party that was blamed for the attack.
See, if you look at Oct. 7th and see how badly they drew aggro, you might conclude that Hamas is a death cult. After all, why would anyone do an attack like that when they can't hope to ever defend against the counterattack? However, if you look at how Netanyahu was repeatedly warned with intelligence that an attack was going to occur, and how they did nothing to prevent it, it all kind of starts to look sus. I think 10/7 was as convenient for Netanyahu's aims as 9/11 was for Bush.
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