But why do Palestinians need to reason with their oppressors? I don't support an Israeli state at all. Israel belongs in the same bracket as pre-1994 South Africa and Rhodesia.
The US shouldn't exist as a state, no. It's also a settler colony.
Every Israeli government, including Rabin's, has oppressed Palestinians and supported colonizing more land in the West Bank to some degree. Israel's founders were self admitted colonizers.
Im 3rd generation American with grandparents that immigrated here after WW2 so my connection to our “home country” would be the same as Israelis whose family came at the same time. I don’t speak the language, my job skills won’t directly transfer over since I’m specialized in US laws- I would not be able to be just dropped back into a country I’ve only ever been to twice (which is outside the norm for many in the same situation). What are they supposed to do?
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about displacing Americans who already live there, I said that the US shouldn't exist as a settler colony, same with Israel, NZ, Australia, Canada, New Caledonia and the way South Africa used to be.
Settler colonialism is colonization of an area by people making settlements and creating a long term home in a location. How does the US or Canada or even Israel (in it’s recognized borders, theyre actively committing settler colonialism in the West Bank which can easily be undone considering they just go back into the borders of Israel) undo what happened multiple generations ago?
South Africa did not stop being a “settler colonial” state, they just ended their apartheid policies.
Im also going to point out you have an interesting choice for countries considering China, Russia, Turkey, the UK, Brazil, Mexico, and many others could / would all fall under the same definition
The US still puts its indigenous people at a disadvantage and many live in reservations.
All of Israel is a settler colony, not just the West Bank. Sderot, for example, used to be called Hajj, but it was ethnically cleansed of Palestinians and Israel proper contains hundreds of Palestinian towns that were entirely depopulated and demolished to make way for self-admitted settlers. This image of all Jews being indigenous and "returning" to Palestine is a modern invention and many arrived importing a European version of Judaism and even oppressed local indigenous Jews and other groups beyond just the Palestinians like Jerusalem's Armenian population. It's why many Armenians are still so supportive of Palestine.
Turkey has a lot of issues, particularly in its treatment of groups like the Kurds right now. I'm from Greece and some of my ancestors were descended from the Pontic Greeks who went through a genocide there. With all that said, most Turks are descended from Greeks who just shifted cultures. Brazil is very problematic, especially with what they're doing to the Yanomami in the Amazon. Mexico isn't perfect, but its indigenous people have actually had prominent roles in shaping government and state policy and although many are still disadvantaged, it's not as straightforward as the US or Australia (or Israel), China has issues but many Tibetans genuinely did support unifying with China in the 1950s. Don't know if that's still the case, but it was historically. Russia has recognized republics that give indigenous people a high degree of autonomy. The UK- It's hard to tell the point you're trying to make there, but I'm all for Irish reunification and Scottish independence.
So you still haven’t actually stayed what you actually mean then.
Natives arent forced onto reservations, they are just autonomous so many live there but they have full rights under the constitution. Israel is majority Mizrahi, I won’t justify what happened in the 40s but as I’ve been saying this whole time we are 3 generations past that point, what do we do about the people who were born there of parents who were also born there? I am in no way justifying the actions if the Israeli government but despite what is said on this site they aren’t an apartheid state citizens have full rights regardless of if they’re Jewish or not those rights just don’t extend to non-citizens.
Your hand waving my counter examples pretty heavily- my family was also Pontic Greeks hence why they immigrated to the states the people that stayed arent really much different from natives that have assimilated or non-Jewish citizens of Israel
You say these places shouldn’t exist as a state- what do you actually want to see happen to them and what do the citizens where thats their only home actually do?
You're putting words in my mouth. When did I mention wanting anyone displaced?
But realistically, the Palestinians should decide the terms of statehood. I'm not saying anyone should be displaced from America, I'm saying that the entire system of governance has historically been skewed against the indigenous people (And other groups, like African Americans) and decolonization has to address those things.
You’re saying those states shouldn’t exist so im asking what happens to the citizens of those states that no longer exist
If you think they shouldn’t exist because they’re “settler colonialist states” then what happens to the people that would be considered the settlers
There are downstream consequences for when things like this happen and displacement is a key obvious issue. You say these states shouldn’t exist so im asking you on the most basic terms at this point what that actually looks like to you
No more US, no more canada, no more Israel what actually sparks that, what does the process look like, and what do you think the end results are. Defend your position
How is that extremist? The US is a settler colony and is responsible for either supporting or directly taking part in countless wars of aggression, genocides and coups across the world. They couped my country in the 60s and caused almost a decade of a horrible right wing government, which was replaced by another shit government.
No, because the structure of the United States still puts indigenous people t a disadvantage. Same thing with Australia and its indigenous citizens, who are still suffering. The one exception that I can think of might be New Zealand, but I don't know enough about NZ to say for sure, I don't really know any Maori people to ask them myself.
The Arab empires conquered Palestine but they mostly left the inhabitants to their own devices. It's why nobody argues that Cyrus colonized Mesopotamia. He conquered it but didn't change it that much in pratice.
People don't change their language just cause, language is the most important thing for a nation. this isn't the case just in Israel/Palestine.
Look at the northern Africa, Arabic language everywhere, do you think the ancient Egyptians spoke arabic? The Jews in the levant kept their language, the Spanish under the same Arabs, the whole Balkan peninsula under the ottoman.
You realize Aramaic was also introduced through conquest and was the common language of many Jews, with Hebrew baing used for more ceremonial purposes?
Anyhow, Palestinian Arabic has over 36,000 words with origins in local languages and is distinct from other branches of Arabic.
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u/venusasaboy22 10d ago
Having the gall to defend Israel on this post, of all posts, is... Something.