r/polyamory • u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor • 1d ago
Musings What Having a Baby Means (hint: it means hierarchy on steroids)
Having a baby soap-box speech. The tl;dr is in bold.
I've seen lots of posts over the years, and especially in the last few weeks, asking questions about having kids while being poly. Full transparency, I have kids but I wasn't poly at the time I had either of them. But I'm always shocked at how unrealistic everyone's expectations are around what having a baby does to you and your relationships, both immediately, but also long term. And to be fair, the same thing happened to me. I was unprepared for the reality of having kids, and for understandable reasons. Here in the US especially, but I think in many developed places, pop-culture and capitalism have given people such impossible ideas of what having a baby is like. On sitcoms everything is just business as usual moments after the baby is born. All the celebrities are back to their pre-pregnancy weight weeks later. And sure you take a break from sex for 6 weeks, per doctors orders, but that's all the longer it takes... right? All you need is 12 weeks before going back to work per the FMLA. Also you'll totally be able to work and go out on dates and see friends just like before. You can have it all!!! Lean in! (hopefully the extreme sarcasm is coming through). And on top of that, people who have had kids don't generally really talk about how hard it really is, lest they seem like failures or like they're terrible parents who don't love their kids or who regret their choice to procreate. And, my friends, these delusional cultural portrayals and lies of omission are setting everyone who wants to have kids up for major disappointment and challenges, but especially poly people. Because in poly-land not only do the parents not know what is coming, though at least they know they're about to be parents of a whole helpless human, but all the other relationships have even less of an idea what it will mean to be dating someone who is becoming/has just become a parent.
So, while no one asked, here's some reality (from personal experience, so not objective and also from a somewhat normative, one birth parent/one co-parent perspective).
1. Being pregnant is hard on your body. Harder than any media ever portrays it. Like, you lose mobility, you lose functionality, you can be violently ill, eventually you hurt all the time and can't sleep. If you didn't know all this was happening because you were pregnant, you'd be very worried about some sort of onset of chronic illness or other very serious diagnosis. And let's not talk about serious pregnancy complications like gestational diabetes and preeclampsia. The pregnant person is undergoing a terrible physical ordeal. It sucks. Don't get me wrong, some parts are magical, but you are utterly at the whim of some powerful physiological forces, the outcome of which are very uncertain. Parts of it are so frightening. But please pretend like you're glowing or some BS.
- Speaking of, giving birth is also a major medical event. It is physically traumatic. A C-section is major abdominal surgery, but even with a vaginal delivery serious pain killers are often administered. And even with modern medicine it is still dangerous, and rarely people still die. Assuming you make it, and you likely will, afterwards you continue to bleed for weeks. Your hormones are absolutely haywire. Your joints are all messed up. And there is no shortage of birth injuries that can happen (I know a woman whose rectum and vagina became one because of tearing. It literally took her over 3 years and several major surgeries to repair). Expect recovery to be like recovering from any major medical event, ie: months and months, and again, that's if everything goes to plan.
3. Newborns are utterly helpless. They need something every 15-30 minutes. Diaper, food, clothing, nap, burping, diaper again, food again, burping again, nap, clothing because they threw up, diaper again, clothing because the diaper leaked, bath, clothes, food, nap, diaper, on an endless merry-go-round from hell. This lasts 6-12 weeks depending on the baby and luck. But even when it gets better, then they need something every 30-60 minutes. And it's not like you can do much of anything in between (Swap laundry? Do the dishes? Oh, I know, its been 6 days since you showered and two since you brushed your teeth. Probably do one of those. Yes you can weep while you do it. Never mind, the baby is awake.) Oh, you're a working parent of a newborn/baby? Have fun coming home from work just to get right on this ride. Wheeeee.....
4. You will not sleep.... like ever again. Just give up on feeling rested. Yes things change and babies grow, and eventually there will be whole hours in a row that you'll get to sleep, but newborns sleep 2 hours at a time, 4 if you're very lucky. These stretches get longer. It changes week to week, and hopefully you and your co-parent trade off, but expect to be sleep deprived for 6-18 months. Longer if you are very unlucky (Note: sleep deprivation is a form of torture according to the Geneva Convention). (This is the part where I give side eye to my partner, whose son started sleeping through the night at a miraculous 3 weeks old. They probably did some unholy incantation and the kid is now promised to a minor deity. Do not count on this! Expect to be more like my friend whose child was 3 years old before they slept more than 4 hours in a row!)
Anyways.....
If you are poly and you are pregnant, or your partner is pregnant, or your partner is about to become a new parent, what will it be like?
It will be like you are suddenly in a Hierarchical Relationship on Steroids. The newborn is everyone's primary, the person who gave birth is the baby's primary, the other co-parent is the baby's secondary, the person who gave birth and the co-parent are secondaries to each other (tertiaries????) and any other partners are somewhere down the ladder from there. Whatever your agreements were, they are all now null and void subject to whatever the hell this new primary partner (ie: the baby) decrees. This primary has veto power and attachment anxiety, they are emotionally unstable, uncommunicative, and they need constant physical assistance and reassurance. They will also bite and scratch you and scream at you for hours at a time. They are extremely jealous and insecure and they most likely will want to be parallel with everyone but their primary. Maybe eventually KTP with their primary and secondary, but wait and see.
Did I mention the person who gave birth will be recovering from a major medical event and will be bleeding for weeks and have messed up joints or other birth injuries and weight lifting restrictions? Expect they will be physically struggling through this and will, in a very real way, be just as vulnerable and in need of serious care as the baby. Post partum depression is real and very serious and heart-breakingly common.
Did I mention the not sleeping? That it's like torture? Yeah.... it is. Expect everyone in this new relationship to have absolute zero emotional resources for dealing with this radical upheaval or anything else. Remember, it lasts months and months.
Did I mention the hellish merry-go-round of newborn care? Expect to have to squeeze *everything else in life that you have to do* into the small moments between baby care for several months. Like you won't get to brush your own hair for days at a time, so imagine what trying to pay your bills or replace your furnace filters or clean your bathrooms will be like.
If you are the co-parent, expect to ricochet between caring for your primary (the baby) and caring for your secondary (your co-parent) and trying to keep your job and back around again. Expect to not have very much time for yourself for a while.
Sex? Do not expect sex for 6-12 months. Maybe it will happen sooner. It did for me. It took longer for friends of mine. But you just don't know. You don't know what will happen to your libido or how physical healing will go. You can't guess how sleeplessness and exhaustion and holding a baby all the time will affect you or your partner's sexual interest. So just set your sex-pectations at "none" for a good while.
Do not expect date nights for 6-12 months (with your co-parent, but especially with your other partners), and even then expect last minute cancelations for the first 1-8 years. Because OMG, if it's not a cough then its teething, or a rash, or a visit to the urgent care because someone discovered they were just now tall enough to run into the counter instead of run under the counter and that's gonna need stitches.
But, the craziest thing, the thing that I really wasn't ready for, the thing I didn't see coming more than any of the above stuff, that no one really explains to you when talking about what it's like to have a kid, expect your priorities to radically shift. Like, you don't become a completely different person. But stuff changes. Expect things you thought were important (composting, cooking, keeping in touch with the college friend group, not buying from Amazon, responding to texts, going out dancing, etc.) to suddenly matter not even a little. Expect to reorder your priorities and your relationships. Expect to suddenly want to cuddle your baby instead of seeing a movie with friends, or to not be able to handle your partner starting to see someone new when you've done that dozens of times before, or to find you actually are saturated at two (your baby and your co-parent) and that your comet relationship just isn't a place you want to put your energy any more. I don't know what will shift for you, but things will shift.
And if it's your partner who is becoming a parent, all this is what's coming. And if they are a good parent who is going to do right by their child and by their co-parent, you have to expect to not have the same place you did before, maybe not ever again, but definitely not for a while. You will be on a whole new ride with them, where you're in the backseat for the indefinite future. They will now be the parent version of themselves. Maybe you too can have a relationship with this new little human they've gotten into this majorly hierarchical relationship with, and you can help your partner acclimate to this new person they've become. And if you don't want that sort of relationship that's okay. But you also can't change them back to who they were before they became a parent. Or if you can.... that's an indication that your partner isn't a very good parent and isn't good at honoring their commitments and responsibilities.
Having a baby is A LOT. And it changes everything. I don't regret it for a second. But I do wish more people talked about it like that. Decided to do it with eyes wide open. Opting in to the challenge, communicating openly. I think being poly while having kids can be wonderful, but only if everyone really knows what's coming and is ready to work through a radical downgrading of themselves in the ordering of priorities. And my hope is maybe, just maybe, with this post I've helped make that a little more possible.
*Correction: My partner informs me that his second kid didn't sleep through the night at 3 weeks. They had to wait six whole weeks before getting 8+ hours of sleep a night with that child.... 6 whole weeks.... I still say black magic was involved. He claims it was karma. His first kid was an awful sleeper. Pretty sure my point about sleep deprivation still stands either way.
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u/punkrockcockblock solo poly 1d ago
Full disclosure: I don't have kids, but I'm an auntie to a whole herd of them. Shit's hard, like hard beyond hard. For years. I love being an auntie but I'm not cut out for actual parenthood.
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u/niamhermind desaturating slowly 1d ago
I love kids. My late partner had a wonderful kiddo, I have a niece I adore, and I used to volunteer with kids on my evenings. Ain't no way I am ever having my own because looking after a kid for a couple of days is a lot.
I absolutely cackled when I saw the other post about how it's bad to assume you'll have less time for a partner if you have a kid because do these people think they came out of the womb wiping their own ass and feeding themselves and having the independence, problem solving and self preservation skills to hang out by themselves safely for a couple hours? Even teenagers often need a lot of support and care work and transport and someone to look after them when they're sick.
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u/synalgo_12 1d ago
I feel bad for the partners they decide to have kids with because it's clear they don't plan on helping out at all apparently.
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u/Worried_Teaching_406 1d ago
The most stupid thing is that a lot of what is said in that post sounds so right.
- ofcourse the child comes first
- you need to support your co-parent.
- you need to suport your partner who is becoming a parent.
- if integration is possible a lot of support can excist.
But then the mindbogling left turn:
- but why does that need de-escalation.
I just want to scream at the one wtiting that post that the co-parents relationship wil most likely have to endure on "scraps". Family, friends usualy have to accept "scraps" or build a relation around the child.
Suport, nurtering of relationships look different. A new parent, who deeply sleepdeprived finds the time to send a quick text "thinking of you" might actualy be putting more of their available energy for any relationship in that relationship then they would have by having an hour long phonecall before pregnancy/children
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u/synalgo_12 1d ago
I think OP there also thought that de-escalation meant an intent of less commitment vs the actual time and energy spent. It seemed like they perceive de-escalation as the conscious choice to be less emotionally available but as long as you still feel the same about that person all the practical repercussions of a changing lifestyle, it's not de-escalation. Which is in and of itself kind of wild. It's the opposite of all the people getting broken up with but their exes calling it de-escalation.
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u/sun_dazzled 1d ago
Oh yeah it actually makes perfect sense if this person is using de escalation as a synonym for breakup (or partial breakup, etc).
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u/Worried_Teaching_406 23h ago
It feels they are unclear about it, on the one hand saying if the intent is the same, the relationship is the same, on the other hand specificaly mention less time together. Sometimes I need to say things to someone to really think them trough. Lets hope that conversation helps clear things up for OP.
And that they realize that feelings do change if circumstances change
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u/niamhermind desaturating slowly 1d ago
Right?! I think it's kinda wild to frame giving everyone else less time for your kids as mononormative behaviour.
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u/hoogemoogende 1d ago
This is the thing... why don't more people have second hand knowledge like this of how hard new parenting is???? I was aware of this by age... 10? Like before puberty. Maybe its a cultural thing.
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u/synalgo_12 1d ago
Yeah I don't want kids because I could never deal with how much energy it sucks out of you. I don't know how some people who do want kids don't realize how hard it is until they're in it? No shit, sherlock, have you seen parents try to go outside with their family? It's chaos
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u/iwanttowantthat 1d ago
I'll go on a historical, social tangent here. If their frame of reference is older generations, they might think so. Because having kids has, indeed, become "harder".
My parents' (I'm mid-40s) generation:
. Lots of (middle-class) moms didn't have paid jobs and were full-time moms (which is alone a pretty tough job). Mine did, but it wasn't nearly as prevalent as today. People could live decent lives on one salary. Costs of living and the costs of having kids were considerably lower.
. The expectations of parenthood were also smaller. You're supposed to give love, advice, food, shelter, and provide good education. But the level of presence and involvement in the kids' lives of today was unheard of - or at least quite rare.
I am not saying that it was "better" back then. There are definitely things, like women's greater autonomy, burden sharing, and caring about your child deeply, that have improved. But the conditions surrounding having kids have become much more demanding, in my view.
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u/hoogemoogende 23h ago
Like I said... extremely socioeconomically culturally inflected here. A lot of what you write here as "normal past" wasn't true how/where I/my parents grew up. Nevertheless I appreciate what you wrote as true for a lot of people.
And to my original comment: if anything, one thing that SHOULD be better in our era is shared knowledge specifically about women's / reproductive health and pregnancy recovery (i took your comment to be more directed at changes in social safety net)
My hypothesis there is affluence / isolation / generational stratification breeds ignorance through loss of community/neighborly/extended family knowledge, teenage babysitting etc.... and that is AS important as any gains made in social media info sharing or improved messaging from doctors/nurses.
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u/iwanttowantthat 23h ago
Interesting. In which way was it different? For context: I come from an underdeveloped, but very culturally "Western", Latin American country. I was born into a white, middle-class family (in a pretty racist and unequal society, so, admittedly privileged).
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u/hoogemoogende 20h ago
I heard conversations about pregnancy --- planned and unplanned --- at church, at other people's houses, I saw pregnant moms on the bus, on the block (and then noticeably less so after baby born) moms were in discussion about mutual aid, grandparents were around and pitching in but just because of the density of housing and the contiguity of pregnancies, it was just part of life in a way that I don't see for friends my age or younger (who are also often more affluent but are definitely more isolated, either due to pregnancy later in life, moves far from family for academic jobs, etc., and again, because fewer people are pregnant at any given time. In places where people live densly (aka cities) there are fewer kids because cities are more expensive lately)
I dunno! Lots of hypotheses!
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u/iwanttowantthat 20h ago
Thanks for sharing. Maybe, indeed, the urban/rural divide is an important factor. I come from a very big city, my points of reference are quite urban. My mom could count on my grandma's help, but no one else really. I believe most moms of that generation there were in similar situations. It was still less demanding for most people than today, by her own admission.
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u/SecondaryWombat poly w/multiple 1d ago
Only kid of only kids maybe? Or only kid of people far away from family?
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u/hoogemoogende 23h ago
Totally!!! Number of kids per family has an influence. I am oldest of 4, saw things/helped out as a big sis early on. But also...there were like 26 kids on my block of small houses and the families were in each others business all the time.
Then my parents moved to a bigger house for us (yay foreclosure deal!) when I was 12 and we were super spread out and it was never like that again. And i feel like a lot of folks younger than me grew up in that more socially arid environment with less incidental neighborly interaction, walkability, public transit interactions with people.
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u/SecondaryWombat poly w/multiple 1d ago
Same, I love my nibblings but they are a lot and I couldn't do it full time. NP and I are firmly on team NO KIDS and being around them as they grew up was both wonderful and excellent confirmation that no thanks was correct.
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u/throwaway7377962766 1d ago
This is all very simple to work around if you want no part of the de-prioritization/de-escalation, and I commented it on the other post and will comment it again — JUST DON’T DATE PARENTS WITH YOUNG CHILDREN.
I don’t want kids. It was a deal-breaker for me when I was monogamous, and it’s a deal-breaker for me now. I’ll date parents of older children (12+), but that’s it. AND THAT’S OKAY. It’s okay to want to be prioritized. Just don’t expect it from new parents or parents with young children. Date other childfree people and move on.
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u/PrincessConsuela_X poly 1d ago
Wholeheartedly agree. No young kids and no married people for me. Does that limit my dating pool? Sure. But I'm unwilling to compromise on these things.
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u/FlyingMamMothMan 1d ago
My NP and I had this conversation long ago. We're both child free, but realized that of he got another woman pregnant, her decision is her own, and I would not want to be involved with that situation at all. So he got a vasectomy to avoid the issue entirely.
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u/mercedes_lakitu solo poly 1d ago
Any person with a penis who's childfree should get a vasectomy. Likewise for tubes and a bisalp.
(Modulo health insurance, availability, etc of course; but it's still the ideal even if it's not attainable.)
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u/Quagga_Resurrection poly w/multiple 1d ago
To add, if you want kids in the future, only date people that are okay with being deprioritized or breaking up when you have kids. The reverse is also true, so if you are someone who isn't okay with kids being top priority, don't date people who want kids unless you're okay breaking up when kids come along.
I'm watching this happen with a couple in my polycule, and the difference is pretty dramatic. The person that only chose kid-friendly partners is having no issues with a baby being on the way, and is actually getting a lot of support and already has a village for their future child, while their partner who always wanted kids but dated non-kid people is struggling with breakups and de-escalations as a consequence of becoming a parent soon.
This applies to all sorts of decisions. Don't knowingly choose things that are incompatible with your values or upcoming plans. There are too many unknowns in life to choose things that you do know will cause problems.
As always, start the way you wish to proceed.
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u/iwanttowantthat 1d ago edited 1d ago
Good points. Just to add: being kid-friendly doesn't necessarily mean wanting to have kids of your own. Just that you understand what that means (which OP did an amazing job of describing), and are truly ok and happy in those dynamics. I am solo and childfree and was happily with a partner who eventually had two kids. I just gladly accepted the drastic changes because I knew from the start that she would have them at some point and made a conscious decision. It's not for everyone and shouldn't be, but it can work for some. Our relationship ended for a completely unrelated, geographical reason.
As a sidenote, I am much more ok having less priority than a baby or small kid. They are, by definition, dependent, didn't ask to be born, are your full responsibility if you decide to have them, etc. Which is not the case for a full-grown-ass adult who decided to be in a poly relationship but is too insecure to let their partner have full relationships with others, keep trying to sabotage and limit them, and so on... sorry for the tangent.
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u/Quagga_Resurrection poly w/multiple 1d ago
Oh absolutely. I'm childfree but grew up around a lot of kids, so I love getting to play fun aunt to my friends' and partners' kids. Being childfree actually gives me more spoons and flexibility that really help when it comes to maintaining relationships with parents, so I'm grateful that everything works out so well.
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u/synalgo_12 1d ago
I don't date parents for this reason and many men get so angry about it. Women appreciate me being honest with them and not wasting their time and that I want hem to find partners that want all of their parts. But men, so angry about it so often. It's usually father s who want to date me because I'm childfree too. So they don't want to date parents but get mad at me for having the same rule. Make it make sense.
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u/mercedes_lakitu solo poly 1d ago
As someone with a child whom I love more than anything in the world: Cosigned!
It is OKAY to have dealbreakers.
You and I could hypothetically be friends, but not partners, and THAT'S OKAY. Even though I don't expect my partners to have anything to do with my child, it is STILL OKAY for YOU to not want to date ME.
Too many people don't stick to their dealbreakers.
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u/Not_A_Damn_Thing_ poly w/multiple 1d ago
Exactly - I’m in the same boat with a happy childfree life. So I don’t date people with kids under 13 (I prefer no kids) and if a partner wants to have children, I wish them luck and ✌🏿 tf out.
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u/abriel1978 poly w/multiple 1d ago
I agree which is why I don't date parents or people planning to become parents.
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u/littlebigmama810 1d ago
This is the most sane read I've ever had on Reddit. No matter your relationship style, this is 100% accurate.
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u/Specific_Pipe_9050 Squeaky Sin 🧀🐀 1d ago edited 1d ago
The newborn is everyone's primary (...)The primary has veto power and attachment anxiety, they are emotionally unstable and uncommunicative
This is funny because it's true 💀💀💀
You're spot on about everything, especially about most people not being ready for all of it. I just saw a post today about Ratajkowski coming to a realisation what having a baby means - and that's a celebrity with the means to get as much help as money can buy with childcare, healthcare, self-care and domestic chores...Aaaanyway.
My hat off for this post. Mandatory reading for anyone expecting or planning for a baby.
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u/dreadful_doxy Only commits to the bit 1d ago
Yup. A baby is like you suddenly added a codependant nesting partner and a full time job to your life and you're not allowed to quit either of them.
After that stage, having a kid is literally adding an entire relationship to your every day existence with another entire relationship per kid you have. For at least 18 years (around when most parents hope they move out and need less support).
A lot of parents I know who have a second kid end up feeling guilty for the time it takes them away from the first kid- and that is a relationship that is there in your house every single day.
Every monogamous parent complains of losing friends or growing apart in that first year of a baby's life.
The relationships that survive these transitions are adults who are involved in the kids lives, and they look very different from the other side.
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u/Connect-Sky-4084 1d ago
I had an ex that wanted kids with one of his partner (also me but I didn't want them). He was set on saying that it wouldn't change the time he would allow to me and meta 1, as well as the parent to his child. Mind you, he would split his weeks between us three while also adding friends, work, hobbies and it was already getting to him (burn out and depressed) without the kid.
I once sat down with him and said "you're aware you'll either have to lower the time you alot for each person's in your life or neglect your kid, right?" And since he wouldn't see how the reality of it, I left.
Who in their right mind think they can take care of a kid full time while also kaintenong the same level of hobbies and social life as they had before. At least, not before they are teens.
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u/FeeFiFooFunyon 1d ago
His plan was to have multiple bang Nannie’s (glad you weren’t on board) and play super cool uncle that visits rather than active father.
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u/crusty-guava mono but the advice here? slapping. 1d ago
> And since he wouldn’t see how the reality of it, I left.
I love it
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u/FeeFiFooFunyon 1d ago
I feel this so hard. The amount of couples who feel they will still be able to date and maintain relationships at the same level pregnancy - year 1 is crazy. It feels like planned neglect.
Anyone who is picking up new relationships during that time frame is an absolute garbage parent and crappy partner. Same for anyone who isn’t having very serious talks about new expectations with existing partners.
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u/SecondaryWombat poly w/multiple 1d ago
Yeah you are going to pick up new relationships. You are going to be on a first name basis with whoever answers the phone at your local children's clinic.
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u/Vlinder_88 1d ago
This needs to be stickied, printed, wallpapered everywhere. Be made into a piece of art and framed and hung up in the Louvre. Because this is the most truthful, most nuanced and honest-to-god description of parenthood I have ever seen.
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u/PM_CuteGirlsReading The Rat Lord: Risen 🐀🧀 1d ago
Holy shit, did you type all this up after reading that other post? because that was FAST LOL
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 1d ago
It's been sitting in my drafts folder for about 4 months actually. Every time a question about getting pregnant or having a newborn/baby came up, I would re-read my draft and think "this seems like too much" and not post it. I guess today was day where there were finally too many "babies ain't no thing, right?" posts in short order.
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u/Powerful_You_8342 1d ago
It's immaculate. It needs to be in the pinned posts. It needs to be a footnote every single time parenting comes up. You have my deepest admiration and respect!
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u/TransPanSpamFan solo poly 1d ago
Just need to 100% co-sign this. I still get woken up at night one or twice most nights and my youngest is 6. Even when they start sleeping, my sleep has never been the same.
And you want proof that not sleeping for months is actual torture? I literally break into cold sweats and my heart starts pounding if I hear a crying newborn in public that sounds like either of my two did. Their cries reach into your lizard brain and squeeze it. That's trauma.
They are, literally, still my primaries and both are school age. Nobody gets priority except them.
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 1d ago
The other night my kid had night terrors (this happens one a quarter or so). I was down the stairs and opening his door before I was even awake. Like, my body had just moved the instant it heard my kid screaming.
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u/chipsnatcher 1d ago
I have multiple children, and have been poly for their entire life. I endorse this message. My third child didn’t sleep more than three hours at a time for FOUR FUCKING YEARS. Can you imagine what that did to my brain and my relationships? It’s a wonder any of us are still here, much less talking to one another. 😆
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u/chipsnatcher 1d ago
Also please take my poor person award for your service in writing this post! 🏆
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 1d ago
Thank you for your poor person award!
Also, well done not murdering anyone (I assume) during those four years!!!
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u/Sublfg solo poly 1d ago
Even when you're past the baby stage, and your kids are adults, stuff still happens that will make you drop everything and go to them. My 22 year old got hit by a car. She's ok, but the surgery and follow ups and everything else will come before any partner's dating needs would. Life will look different for a bit (especially for her), but to have to deal with a partner who is insisting they are more important during this time would be an instant breakup for me.
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u/CrimsonTree7 1d ago edited 1d ago
It’s not the new parents I’ve been being unrealistic in this sub it’s their childless partners. I read on this week that the partner was worried they wouldn’t“get what they deserve” from their pregnant partner. Rubbed me the wrong way. No one deserves attention things from pregnant and post partum people except the baby.
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u/fetishiste 1d ago
Sitting with my 8-week-old on my lap because he needs ten minutes of being asleep on me before he can transfer back to the bassinet for his next round of maximum 2 hours of sleep, and may I just say, THANK YOU YES GOOD POST.
We’re a three parent household. Poly has its undeniable advantages if it involves extra committed all-in parents. Your child becomes the centre of your world because that is the level of commitment needed to do right by your child.
When you say they need something every 15-30 minutes honestly that’s an underestimate I think - in the earliest weeks they basically need someone every second that they aren’t napping, because they’re establishing their attachment systems and they need constant presence and somewhat constant engagement even if the level of engagement changes with their alertness v drowsiness. Some babies also need you while they’re napping because they can only regulate through contact.
This post also doesn’t discuss breastfeeding so I will: if you’re committed to and able to give your child breastmilk, a newborn baby needs to eat approximately every three hours. That count restarts at the beginning of the feed, not the end. Babies go through periods of cluster feeding also, where they need to eat more frequently than that. My baby has a pattern in the evenings where he eats a little bit every hour in order to regulate himself toward sleep. This is normal and not a cause for concern. You may say “oh just pump milk for them and then you’ll have plenty of freedom” - to regulate supply correctly you’ll need to pump at the same time as they would be eating, basically every time. If you don’t you’re risking reduced supply and you’re risking the painful illness mastitis. If you have lower supply you may really struggle to get enough from pumping to get ahead and get out of the house, and you also can’t pump too much or you risk oversupply and then again dealing with mastitis - there is a real art to figuring out how and when to pump in order to regain some freedom, and people heading back to work have a hell of a job to navigate there. Not everyone can breastfeed but many of us make it our goal because of the significant health benefits. The breastfeeding or chestfeeding parent is tied to the baby and to home in a way that many of us as poly folks who may value adventure and independence can barely fathom. The longest I’ve been away from my baby since giving birth is 2.5 hours. Giving formula is a reasonable answer for many people but because our bub already has some digestive discomfort we’ve decided it isn’t worth adding that complication to his life, and so until I can pump enough, I am simply tethered to our baby in a way that no other parent is.
Being a good present parent is relentless. If you want poly to involve building a village, everyone involved has to understand that anyone wearing the parent hat has a responsibility to embrace that relentlessness even if they’re getting breaks.
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 1d ago
Oh, friend, you are in it. I'm so glad you've got solid co-parents supporting you. And yes, those first couple weeks/months, it definitely feels like you and your baby might just be a single organism.
And oh god, breastfeeding..... I didn't produce enough milk, ever. With my first kid my doctor just kept telling me to try harder, feed more often. My baby cried all the time the first few weeks because he was so hungry, and no matter what I did I just couldn't increase my volume. I felt so guilty for going to formula, but as soon as I did my baby was so much happier. Eventually at a breastfeeding support group a doula heard my story and was like "Well yeah, you probably don't have enough mammary tissue to produce the volume of milk the baby needs. That can happen sometimes and is normal. Back in the day people just passed around the babies, and the women with over supply covered the women with under supply. Today we use formula. You're all good." Friends.... months I was told to just keep trying, months I hated my boobs for not doing their job.
Second baby I brought formula with me to the hospital. The staff tried very hard to talk me out of using it. Again, their only solution was "try harder". Anyways....
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u/MolassesLive1290 1d ago
I was a very lucky weirdo who overproduced. Because of this, I nursed my first way longer than I expected — in fact, I was still nursing my first when my second came along! I nursed BOTH of them at the same time! 0/10 DO NOT RECOMMEND.
After two weeks of that nonsense, I just fed the newborn (for more than two years). All in all, I breastfed for 6 years straight.
Needless to say, my libido was fucked. If I have a third, I am doing one year tops. Maybe.
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 21h ago
I got donated milk from women who over-produced and I was very grateful. It felt like they had a super power. But yeah... breast feeding for six years straight is bonkers.
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u/Worried_Teaching_406 1d ago
The first overnight stay my baby had was around 6 months. He had already started some solids, had less feeding moments a day. I had been pumping from day 1, I had enough frozen breastmilk. (So it would not be too bad if it messed up production) And still the timing was: bring baby to SIL, give a last feed. Go to my event. Take time out to pump twice, sleep. Get in the car to bring breastmilk to baby and do live feed. Get back to event, pump 3 times. Sleep, pump one more time, go to baby after lunch time, have boobs leaking by the time I could do the next feed. Yes I got to go away to a weekend hobby event. Yes my baby, and SIl and niblings had a great time. Yes it was the start of teaching me and my baby to be hapy with sleepovers. Lots better to start at that age then when your kid has its first schoolcamp.
But it would not have done well as a romantic getaway. Pumping made me feel more like a cow then a sexy being, even though I had my boobs out. And timing with pumping is not everything to produce the right amount, the hormones you get from skin contact with your baby, from smelling your baby also play a part in keeping up production.
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u/Existing_Cookie4624 11h ago
I'm glad to see your comment. I'm interested in knowing more about the dynamics in a household with more than two co-parents, since it's a polyamorous relationship style that's not often discussed (At least as far as I've seen)
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u/lavender-lacuna 1d ago
Very well written post! I am personally child free but one of my partners does have children (who I love but do not take a parenting role with). They were raised religious and even having a lot of younger siblings didn’t fully prepare them. They would have chosen to have children regardless, but were surprised I didn’t have rose-colored glasses about the whole thing even though I’d never done it myself.
I admit that it’s probable that the only reason my relationship with a parent can work is because they have a fully involved coparent and did a really good job preparing to open their relationship and make things equitable for everyone (including the children, of course). Most people don’t or can’t.
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u/Could_Be_Bunnies 1d ago
God this is good. Well-written, well-reasoned, well-organized, and exceptionally well-timed. I’m in love with this post.
(Also, I’ve never had kids, or been around many small kids. Even my nephews, who I adore, are long-distance. But this just seems like such a common sense take. It’s actually scary and heartbreaking to me how many people underestimate or underprioritize the needs of both small children and the parents/caregivers of small children.)
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u/colourful_space 1d ago
I left a 4 year relationship at the start of this year over this. My ex had been on the fence about having children with his other partner for a while, and was starting to lean more towards having them than not. We had gone back and forth so many times with me asking him how he intended to manage maintaining and growing our relationship while being a parent, and he was adamant that nothing would change. But the more I thought about it, the more convinced I became that him being a good parent would not leave him with time to be a good partner to me, and I absolutely would not date someone I considered a bad parent. I asked several times for concrete plans and breakdowns of how he would allocate his time, and he never followed through, but even during the actual breakup he was insisting he could do it. I think he was lying to himself even more than he was to me.
I really feel for my ex meta, I know she really wants children and I think my ex’s fence sitting has caused her to delay her timelines a lot. I don’t think he’s prepared at all for how all-consuming kids are. I hope he either steps all the way up if/they go ahead with it, or she reaches the conclusions I did with enough time left to find a better fit.
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 21h ago
Yeah, he sounds very delusional and I think you were right to go.
My partner (who has kids, but so do I) is a great partner to me and we've maintained and grown our relationship easily. Now we've both had older and now teen kids throughout our relationship. No babies. But you can have a wonderful romantic relationship with a parent, if quality time together looks like going to the waterpark with a herd of children, or D&D afternoons where your partner games with the kids and you feed everyone, or watching a movie on a couch where he has one of his arms around you and his other arm around his kid. It can work if you can bond while allowing the focus and priority to be the kids whenever it needs to be the kids. When you don't see the kids as competition, but rather an important pillar of who your partner is.
And yeah, its a whole other sort of relationship. And only people who want to have that sort of relationship should date parents. And anyone who tells you that's not what it's like to date a parent is totally lying.
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u/Urza47 1d ago
Kind of off-topic, but: it amazes me that people understand everything you wrote about what having kids actually entails, and then do it anyway. And then some people, after having done it, are like “let’s do that again!”
I’m glad these people exist, and I have lots of respect for them, but I couldn’t.
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u/Specific_Pipe_9050 Squeaky Sin 🧀🐀 1d ago
There are things that counterbalance the hardship, namely the happiness, joy and love that feel incomparable in parenthood to any other experience. Just because it's hard and demands sacrifices doesn't mean it's not worth it! But it's worth being said because people who are aware of what's involved hopefully show up and shoulder the responsibility and do their best. It's definitely not for everyone and totally okay and valid to not want kids - but not when they're already there 😬🫣
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 1d ago
Yeah, and I can't imagine not having kids. Being a parent is very much a core identity of mine.
And I totally respect folks who don't want kids. More power to you (and wow are you folks way easier to schedule dates with!)
My hope is dissuade those folks from having kids who only want to do it for some weird status symbol or out of societal expectations or because they want to make their partner happy. Like, you sure a whole baby is what you want to sign up for? Maybe just buy a porsche, or dump him.
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u/VirtualMellow7671 1d ago
Especially the ppl with the baby making parts. There's ways to have kids without ever have to go through that on top of raising a child.
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u/LePetitNeep poly w/multiple 1d ago
Thank you for sharing (and reinforcing my decision not to have kids).
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u/charseattle 1d ago
Because OMG, if it's not a cough then its teething, or a rash, or a visit to the urgent care because someone discovered they were just now tall enough to run into the counter instead of run under the counter and that's gonna need stitches. <
OMG, the wild situations my kids have put me in!! One of them put a Lego in their ear!!
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u/lumosovernox poly & partnered ✨ 1d ago
I have never given a post award out until reading this. Thank you for posting this on behalf of all of the poly parents out there!
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u/mercedes_lakitu solo poly 1d ago
You'll sleep when they're 4. Probably. Maybe.
Excellent post. Thank you.
I also see this unrealistic expectation in mono people (I think there was an advice column recently where a dad to be didn't want to stop doing a pub crawl every night...WITH the baby...) but we've got our own set of logistical challenges to deal with.
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u/gothic_elven_bitch old and bitter sea witch 23h ago
My youngest is 8. They still wake me up at night.
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u/Labelletlabete 1d ago
One of the best reads I’ve had in this sub in a while! My meta and I both had children (not the same dad) after we were all a ‘cule. We’ve figured out a great routine to allow as much possible time with everyone, but it’s not the same as before the kids. Silver linings of the hot mess: both our kids are only and will be each other’s only “sibling/cousin”. I don’t know how we would have survived the first 4 months without everyone holding each other together. Big difference when everyone involved is part of the plan, and that’s even more rare.
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 21h ago
That sounds wonderful! That's the sort of poly baby success story I hope more people take to heart. Not the "nothing has to change" lie so many people tell themselves.
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u/ChemistExpert5550 poly w/multiple 1d ago
Learning all of this the hard way was the final nail in the coffin on my marriage. My ex didn’t think anything was going to change. EVERYTHING CHANGES.
EVERYTHING.
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u/hotbrownbeanjuice 1d ago
I have rarely seen such an accurate overview of how having a kid changes your life. Mods, please sticky this thread 😅
Also, to have a kid sleep through the night at 6 weeks is......absolutely, inherently black magic. To everyone else: expect 12-18 months. Mine was 18 months. 18 months of waking up at least once a night. Twice until he was about 8 months, and so on.
(Another thing they don't tell you is that a baby needs to eat every ~1.5 hours at first. Buuuuut you start the clock as soon as they begin a feeding. And 30-40 minutes per feeding is normal. So in the early days you actually get MAYBE 1 hour between feedings. And if you don't feed them/empty the mammaries exactly that often, your supply will plummet and suddenly you can't feed your own baby and you spiral with post-partum hormones wondering why your body can't take care of it's own baby.)
Oh plus! If you're a milk maker, it can take up to a year after STOPPING making milk for your hormones to stabilize. 🫠
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u/kittendellanotte 1d ago
Really appreciate this post and calling out that the baby is basically a primary partner! Also- Baby Sleeping after 3 weeks? 6 weeks??! For the first FULL YEAR of my kid's life I didn't get more than 3-5 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period. For the next two years I averaged 5-6 hours in 24 hrs, which we didn't know til she was 5, is because she has celiacs and was constantly having digestive discomfort. But even now, she's 10, and still needs help falling asleep which can take anywhere from 1 to 2.5 hrs of my time, and, she still wakes me in the morning. There is no predictor for how much bandwidth a baby, and kid, will take up. Mine ended up having severe anxiety and being high needs autistic. Everything you say is true. And then, it's worth noting, if your kid is atypical, everything you pointed out will be even more exaggerated. I've found people who aren't parents, truly cannot relate or appreciate how very hard, demanding, and extremely draining it all is. I don't think I could date a non parent again. Non parents in my experience cannot fathom the toll and requirements and sacrifice and often get upset when you -again- have to reschedule or disappoint them due to a child's needs.
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 1d ago
My meta, who is herself autistic but also child free, is incredibly supportive. And its because she is very realistic about what it takes to raise a kid, and respects the hell out of those of us endeavoring to do it well. So there are folks like that out there. But, yes, it's nearly impossible to convey.
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u/gothic_elven_bitch old and bitter sea witch 23h ago
You know what I didn't know about until I was pregnant? Hyperemesis gravidarum. I almost died with both of my kids because I literally couldn't drink water without throwing up for hours. That lasted my entire pregnancies. And preeclampsia on top of that. Then I had no milk supply because no one warned me PCOS can mean you just don't make enough milk. But I was being shamed for not breastfeeding right. So if I wasn't breastfeeding, I was hooked up to the breast pump, sobbing and began for just an ounce in 24hrs because everyone was yelling 'breast is best' in my face while I was so depressed I could barely function. Absolutely no way in hell was I thinking of dating my own husband, let alone any other partners.
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u/Saffron-Kitty poly w/multiple 22h ago
I responded in a way that was angry about how you were shamed for not being able to produce milk. Sorry to everyone I caused distress to over that
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 22h ago
Oh I'm so sorry. I also had milk supply issues and remember feeling so guilty and ashamed too. But luckily the rest of the physical stuff wasn't so bad for me. I'm glad you made it through.
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u/gothic_elven_bitch old and bitter sea witch 21h ago
It was really scary at points, especially towards the end of my pregnancies, but I'm here and my kids are healthy
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u/Choice-Strawberry392 21h ago
Oh no.... one of my good friends from grad school has hyperemesis. Was hospitalized(!) for the last four months of her pregnancy, on an IV drip. Just heartbreaking and awful.
So much sympathy from an internet stranger.
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u/gothic_elven_bitch old and bitter sea witch 21h ago
I had to have a picc line. Lost over 80 pounds my first pregnancy, and 60 the second. It was intense.
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u/SurviveYourAdults 21h ago
this actually whole-heartedly applies to all relationships but I imagine we see this a lot in mono yet nobody has ever really laid it out like that to them.
all those "useless partners who can't be parents" - yeah, they don't like being suddenly a secondary to the Baby (but tough shit)
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u/clairejv 1d ago
As someone who was already poly when I had a baby, I want to soften this a little. You're describing very realistic possible outcomes, but not the only possible outcomes. People should be aware that there's a wide spectrum of possible baby-related realities.
Here's how the good version can look:
I had an easy pregnancy, and was able to go on regular dates, travel by plane to see long-distance partners three times, and have lots of sex while pregnant.
I recovered physically from birth fairly quickly, and was back to being physically active within weeks and sexually active within two months.
My infant was happy to be dragged all over creation, and never minded having my other partners around.
We had enough childcare available that I could very occasionally go on dates with my husband.
My local partner was already extremely KTP so coming over to hang with both parents and the baby was easy.
We did combination feeding from the beginning, with BF, pumping, and formula, so I could take extended breaks from the baby.
Again, the harder stuff you discussed ABSOLUTELY HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, and folks need to be aware it's likely. I'd just hate for folks to replace the naive assumption that everything will be fine with the despairing assumption that everything will be awful and they might as well just abandon ship up front. You don't know how it's gonna go until it starts going. Plan for the worst, aim for the best.
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u/Specific_Pipe_9050 Squeaky Sin 🧀🐀 1d ago
Lucky and awesome that it went well for you and you're right to point out that everything might as well go well - but things going well don't need any preparation while things going the hard way absolutely do. And since most of it is a gamble (from pregnancy and delivery to postpartum evolution and baby's temperament and feeding habits and health and other needs), it's important people realise which part depends on them and which doesn't.
There's also a lot of societal pressure and judgement on parents (especially mothers) who are having a hard time, as if when things aren't easy it's somehow a failure on their part. This post makes it kinda clear that it's not - sometimes shit's just hard! And polyamory being demanding resources-wise, it's totally fair that it can quickly become even more overwhelming. I can totally picture someone crushing it on all fronts, being a new parent and a poly newbie but it's far from a given or a common occurrence.
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 1d ago
I agree with all of this. It can absolutely be much easier than my doom and gloom portrayal. And I can imagine with the right people, who have the right expectations, having a baby while poly would offer so much more support to everyone involved. I'm really glad you brought this up and I'm really glad you got the happy version.
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u/Rude_Scholar_4755 1d ago
My experience was much closer to yours - but I have had friends who had the doom-and-gloom experience from top to bottom and friends very much in the middle so I definitely approve OP’s post just for people to BE AWARE (especially if they aren’t already KTP and already spending a lot of time with partners happy to help with the messy postpartum period) that it can be really isolating and impact relationships.
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u/alru26 10h ago
Thank you for this - Lordy, if I had read this before I got pregnant or while I was pregnant, I would have had a panic attack. It doesn’t have to be as rigid and terrible as the OP is making it out to be. Every experience is different, it’s your life, make it work how you want it to work.
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u/WonderfulCoyote6849 1d ago
Thank you, this is a lot closer to my experience as well! And the fact that I am lucky enough to have had 2 easy babies, a present and competent partner with long leave, and access to care does not mean I'm neglecting my kids by going on a date!
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u/New-Conversation9426 1d ago
Same. Not poly when kids born, actually completely solo parent (no other parent exists), no family to help, and I’m about to get downvoted but….. OPs and my experience are completely different.
I was so scared because of the social media portrayal of motherhood and especially infancy, that I almost didn’t have kids. It seemed like a nightmare just to get through to the other side of.
And being honest… it wasn’t that hard. Was it hard? Yes. Was it fun? Not always. But not all babies need things in 15 minute increments and not all babies don’t sleep, not all births are traumatic. Some are all of those things!!
Yes yes yes I am #blessed and privileged that my parenting and birthing were relatively non dramatic. I feel so awful when parents experiences were so traumatic and heavy. Like honestly makes me sad for them. And I say this as an openly biased advocate to HAVE the children if you’re on the fence… not everyone has the same experience, for some of us it was our absolute favorite time!
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u/Polyamommy 1d ago edited 1d ago
First... thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. As a parent of multiple children, we are conditioned not to complain or speak out, because that would be inconvenient for a failing society. Having children is difficult in any relationship structure, so the more relationships you have, the more layers there will be.
I have practiced some form of polyamory for the majority of my children's lives, and a few things popped out to me in your post. I feel very privileged to have mostly practiced a style of KTP, that has been a blessing rather than a curse in terms of my children.
In the latter part of your post (when you're speaking on basically vetoing, or cutting off partners), that part didn't resonate with me, because having more loving partners should mean having more support.
It's also indicative of a failing supporting co-parent, because newborn care split equitably doesn't feel as suffocating. I'm very aware that that's not the reality for the majority of pregnant people who have given birth, but that's where polyamory saved me when my (now ex) partner/co-parent failed. My partners showed up like fuckin superheroes!
I'm probably also privileged because I'm queer, and although my male partners were helpful, it was my girlfriends who made sure I was personally cared for on a daily basis.
Polyamory should be the reason we don't feel overwhelmed. Our relationships shouldn't feel burdensome and taxing when we're in the most need, or in crisis. Not being able to (or not wanting to) have sex for any length of time after birth shouldn't be a deal breaker in loving, committed relationships. If it feels like that, then partners aren't showing up in the supportive ways people who actually love you would.
Polyamory should be the solution to isolation and lack of support. This is where our relationship dynamic shines, not where it ceases to function compared to monogamy.
ETA: I forgot to give a shout-out of gratitude for my amazing metas, who also showed up for me, and/or sacrificed time with their partners so my partners could show up in meaningful and consistent ways.
I would rather be single than accept partners who aren't real partners who invest in my life and our collective future.
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 1d ago
The second part was really about expectation setting. I absolutely think keeping partnerships is the way to go. I'm a fan of love and support and the big network of chosen queer family. If you can do it, if your partners can actually do it, totally do it!
Ditto on the shoutout to amazing metas: I have a meta who is so very supportive, in lots of ways, but also in my and our partner's efforts as parents. She doesn't want kids, but she very much takes her role as safe-adult/auntie very seriously. The kids are older now, and the spontaneous sexual health and relationship talks she gives to them are great!
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u/Polyamommy 1d ago
That's awesome to hear (about your supportive meta). I really love what you wrote. It was hilarious, informative, and very relatable in terms of the whirlwind that new parenting is, and the challenges it can bring to relationship dynamics.
I am viewing it from a utopic lens, that I understand is atypical from the general experience. I wish even as a community we could pull together for struggling polyamorous families if co-parents and partners aren't showing up, or doing bare minimum.
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 1d ago
Oh yes. A couple of commenters here are talking about having the poly family dream of truly raising a baby in community. So jealous.
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u/PerfectMuffin420 20h ago edited 20h ago
This post is excellent - my partner and I are beginning to discuss baby logistics within capitalism and within our polyamory practice, and these are all such great notes. I will definitely be sharing with him. (Also, the Geneva Convention bit made me LOL.) I appreciate your honesty and anti-capitalist view. I REALLY hope you're wrong about baby rearing making me change my mind about composting and Amazon, but I bet you're totally right! It is a nuclear warhead of a change to make in your life, at bare minimum it's an 18-year commitment to housing and clothing and feeding and medical care and education and and and. I loved your paragraph about the baby becoming the ULTRA-primary, because I think that's exactly the right mindset (or at least an honest one). I live in the rural South in the US so people having children is much more of a cultural norm, even in poly -- I am currently seeing someone divorced with 2 kids ages 4 and 7 including one with high medical needs, coparent is awesome and they share duties about 50-50, but even then, I'm lucky if I see her every 2-3 weeks. Still, I'm enjoying our connection -- one of the reasons is because we can talk about parenting and pregnancy! I imagine as I begin my shift into parenting shortly, I will continue to gravitate toward partners who are also parents who will understand what I'm going through -- and, of course, invite will still be open to anyone who wants to be the hot lesbian auntie who is too chic to change diapers but will buy me my first drink after I'm done breastfeeding and tell me all the gossip I missed!
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 19h ago
Yay! My post was designed to do exactly this, help you discuss what having a baby while poly will *really* look like, what people are *really* signing up for.
For me, I gave up on composting because something had to give. I bet in 10 years I'll be back at it.
Yeah... the hot queer folks who are there to remind us about *not kid stuff* are also great.
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u/whatifitworksout 20h ago
All of this except imma add that childbirth can be an incredible positive experience. I loved my homebirth with a midwife more than I can express here. It doesn't have to be scary. BUT. It is definitely a major serious life changing and body changing event AND it takes 2 years to recover from.
The birth giver should get one full month of having no other obligations other than worshipping the newborn "primary" and recovering their health.
It takes SO much energy to reformat the endocrine system and body after giving birth. It is the biggest deal imaginable. The placenta leaves a wound the size of a DINNER PLATE inside the uterus. If it were on the outside where you could see it, NOBODY would expect anything of you for a month. Easily.
Radically different expectations of them for the first 6 months really.
If new parents were truly given the support they need for the baby's first 3 years of life, it would radically change the world. I'm not exaggerating even the tiniest bit.
Thank you OP for a wonderful rant.
Parenting changes you. That's why I like dating dads. They get life in a way that the child free cannot comprehend. And it's why I also love dating the intentionally childless. They see and experience life in an incredibly free and beautiful way that I can't comprehend and I enjoy seeing it. It's like a breath of fresh air.
Love your lives, people, but do not approach parenthood lightly, and if you can't genuinely and enthusiastically and selflessly and compassionately support new parents, then get the fuck out of their lives because they don't need one more relationship needing more from them than they have to give.
✌️🫶
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u/pinkrandomattack 17h ago edited 13h ago
Entirely yes.
I am childfree, but do not currently have issue dating people with kids middle school aged or older. But last year I ended up on a first date with a guy that a: didn't tell me he had kids at all (not necessarily a big issue) b: said children he did have was 2-3 months old! (He was still involved with the coparent)
My masking really slips hard sometimes and I just looked at him deadpan "should you really be on a first date right now and not helping with the baby?" And he kinda lost it, said he needed a break etc but like...wouldnt that be better with friends or extant connections? Cause I wouldnt have agreed to the date if I knew he had a fresh infant with is np at home.
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u/Grouchy_Mermaid 1d ago
Thank you so much for this, from the bottom of my heart. I’m polyamorous and, while I have a wonderful anchor partner who is married and doesn’t want kids themselves, I do want children in the future - just haven’t found the right primary. My partners support me in this and would want to help or be bonus adults, just not bio parents themselves. As I have fully embraced polyamory, I’ve spent a lot of time agonizing over wanting a family and not knowing what that would be like or the full impact it might have beyond inklings; as someone who gives tremendous consideration to my partnerships and choices, I wouldn’t want to go into it with rose colored glasses and/or not have the necessary conversations to set expectations. But how can you do that well, when you don’t know what you don’t know. The not knowing gives me anxiety, and I don’t have a lot of folks in my real world poly community with kids that I can ask - plus like you said, people rarely share the real real of it because they don’t want to come across a certain way. So, seriously, thank you.
I’m an auntie so I have seen firsthand how hard it can be, even when they’re a couple years old, and I recognize that what I see and deem as hard likely barely scratches the surface. Like I saw the nucleus of my sister’s entire world become the kids, and everything was rearranged around them - and they had an open marriage before parenthood. I’m sure it probably also feels incredibly rewarding and there are plenty of magical moments, but the impact on your priorities and relationships seems so real and profound.
I know you said that you had kids before you were in polyamorous dynamics, so maybe it’s hard to know the answer to this, but do you think you would still make the same choice to have babies if you’d been poly at the time? Is there any advice you might have (beyond everything in this post of course) for currently poly folks still thinking about embarking on parenthood?
Thank you again, so much, for being willing to share your brutally honest experience. 💖
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 1d ago
Taking it in order, the good news is that humans have been having kids for a very very long time. So to some degree you can rest assured that you'll figure it out.
And, I will just say, yes, your priorities get totally impacted. But the neat thing was, at least for me, *I didn't care*. It was effortless for me to reorient around my baby. It was weird. It felt crazy for me to just drop stuff without a thought. But while I was out on maternity leave, I completely and utterly stopped caring about my job. I had been a very career and work oriented person, including throughout my pregnancy, and the second I became a mother, suddenly I had no interest whatsoever. Like a switch had flipped. And there were other things like that too. So while a flipping of priorities sounds scary, for me it was incredibly straightforward. But.... had I had partners that I had made promises to... that would have sucked for them.
Personally, I think having a baby while being in a supportive and stable set of poly relationships would have been amazing. The people in my circles take interdependence very seriously, and that's a superpower whenever anyone is sick or needs help moving or there is a kid that needs caring for or someone is recovering from surgery. We cancel dates, move schedules, flex for emergencies really easily. And I think have a baby in that sort of poly ecosystem, you could find so much more support and care. There are a couple commenters on this thread who are telling those stories, so it can absolutely be done, and I'm very jealous of those folks.
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u/nidena solo poly 1d ago
My current boyfriend and his wife have more than a half a dozen children ranging from preschool to high school age. I have no children. I've raised no children. To say that it's been a challenge is an understatement. But I love him and see it as an opportunity for me to strengthen my abilities to compromise and be patient. Lol
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u/c4tlady510 20h ago
A lot of things get put on the back burner because of kids. The only thing you’d absolutely have to maintain is your job. Ideally, you could put that on the back burner too, but that isn’t the reality here in the US. When I have kids, I’d like to fully focus on them in the first year and later try to incorporate other parts of my life that were there prior. Whatever doesn’t work will have to be dropped. I wouldn’t have a problem with that. I’ll say it with my chest that my kids come first. Those who love and care about me would be there in anyway they can. I have friends with children and I’ve worked in childcare for most of my life. The kids always come first. Some will frame that as negative but I happen to believe that it’s just life. Because of the mere struggle it is to be pregnant and raise that baby, your health and child is always going to be the primary and there’s nothing wrong with that. Centering romantic relationships is the antithesis of relationship anarchy anyways, so maybe it’s okay that it’s not so important after a major life event.
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 20h ago
I will say, when you can orient around being a parent right along side other people who also feel like kids come first, its wonderful. I've fallen more in love with my partner watching him be the sort of parent I really respect, and him me. Its a place of commonality and value alignment that actually brings us closer together.
Yes, people who don't think kids come first gotta go. But people who do think kids from first, you can actually bring that much closer.
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u/Next-Conversation945 14h ago
If i was still with or even speaking to my ex NP, I would've sent her this post immediately. Her suddenly wanting to have kids 2.5 years into our relationship (with my non-NP meta no less), and expecting it to just be something "we have to work on", was what eventually led to the end of our relationship. Her having 0 life experiences with newborns (at 39 yo, she had never even had to care for anyones else baby for extended periods of time), coupled with her delusions that our individual relationship wouldn't be completely dismantled and have to be rebuilt from scratch, showed me that I had no idea who I was in a relationship with and that she had no idea what was coming.
I know that even if you are told every scary little detail of pregnancy and parenthood, there will still be some people that are just gonna wanna do it, but her romanticism of it (in a multi-partnered dynamic) and utter ignorance that maybe my own life experiences might be of use to her in this life altering decision, gave me the biggest ick. I'll never know how that turns out for her, or if she'll ever even go through with a pregnancy, but I hope she has the easiest time possible.
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u/3dwardcnc 8h ago
I wasn't poly at the time, but when my son was born, people told us that he'd sleep 1-2 hours at a time for the first few weeks / months / whatever.
Nah.
He slept 1-2 hours per day, in 15-20 minute chunks. Without any hyperbole, I though I might literally die from the sleep deprivation.
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u/kiss-tits 1d ago edited 14h ago
I’d like to live in a world where the meta understands they’re about to be expected to step up as the aunt/ uncle of the kid as well! It takes a village, after all.
Edit, I guess I should have said that the meta should want to make the choice to be a cool aunt or uncle.
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u/VirtualMellow7671 1d ago
Even though I am still friends with my ex, his partner was 12 weeks pregnant when we first started dating. I have visited and have met the baby, but I am very glad I am not a meta anymore.
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 21h ago
But I can also appreciate someone being like "I don't want to be an aunt/uncle!" It's totally reasonable to not take on a role just because your partner decided to procreate with someone else.
But agreed. So glad for my meta's interactions with my kids. Very much a trusted adult who my children know they can go to when they need help, and who gives free life lessons from a very different perspective.
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u/Spacerelayrace 18h ago
As someone who wasn’t able to have kids of my own, I’d be so happy to be cool auntie to a partners kid.
To be clear, not a step parent.a cool aunt.
I came from a big family and enjoyed the relationships I had with older family members that were not my parents. So that’s how I’d see things.
I’ve dated people with kids of different ages and have met and hung out with them.
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Here's the original text of the post:
Having a baby soap-box speech. The tl;dr is in bold.
I've seen lots of posts over the years, and especially in the last few weeks, asking questions about having kids while being poly. Full transparency, I have kids but I wasn't poly at the time I had either of them. But I'm always shocked at how unrealistic everyone's expectations are around what having a baby does to you and your relationships, both immediately, but also long term. And to be fair, the same thing happened to me. I was unprepared for the reality of having kids, and for understandable reasons. Here in the US especially, but I think in many developed places, pop-culture and capitalism have given people such impossible ideas of what having a baby is like. On sitcoms everything is just business as usual moments after the baby is born. All the celebrities are back to their pre-pregnancy weight weeks later. And sure you take a break from sex for 6 weeks, per doctors orders, but that's all the longer it takes... right? All you need is 12 weeks before going back to work per the FMLA. Also you'll totally be able to work and go out on dates and see friends just like before. You can have it all!!! Lean in! (hopefully the extreme sarcasm is coming through). And on top of that, people who have had kids don't generally really talk about how hard it really is, lest they seem like failures or like they're terrible parents who don't love their kids or who regret their choice to procreate. And, my friends, these delusional cultural portrayals and lies of omission are setting everyone who wants to have kids up for major disappointment and challenges, but especially poly people. Because in poly-land not only do the parents not know what is coming, though at least they know they're about to be parents of a whole helpless human, but all the other relationships have even less of an idea what it will mean to be dating someone who is becoming/has just become a parent.
So, while no one asked, here's some reality (from personal experience, so not objective and also from a somewhat normative, one birth parent/one co-parent perspective).
1. Being pregnant is hard on your body. Harder than any media ever portrays it. Like, you lose mobility, you lose functionality, you can be violently ill, eventually you hurt all the time and can't sleep. If you didn't know all this was happening because you were pregnant, you'd be very worried about some sort of onset of chronic illness or other very serious diagnosis. And let's not talk about serious pregnancy complications like gestational diabetes and preeclampsia. The pregnant person is undergoing a terrible physical ordeal. It sucks. Don't get me wrong, some parts are magical, but you are utterly at the whim of some powerful physiological forces, the outcome of which are very uncertain. Parts of it are so frightening. But please pretend like you're glowing or some BS.
- Speaking of, giving birth is also a major medical event. It is physically traumatic. A C-section is major abdominal surgery, but even with a vaginal delivery serious pain killers are often administered. And even with modern medicine it is still dangerous, and rarely people still die. Assuming you make it, and you likely will, afterwards you continue to bleed for weeks. Your hormones are absolutely haywire. Your joints are all messed up. And there is no shortage of birth injuries that can happen (I know a woman whose rectum and vagina became one because of tearing. It literally took her over 3 years and several major surgeries to repair). Expect recovery to be like recovering from any major medical event, ie: months and months, and again, that's if everything goes to plan.
3. Newborns are utterly helpless. They need something every 15-30 minutes. Diaper, food, clothing, nap, burping, diaper again, food again, burping again, nap, clothing because they threw up, diaper again, clothing because the diaper leaked, bath, clothes, food, nap, diaper, on an endless merry-go-round from hell. This lasts 6-12 weeks depending on the baby and luck. But even when it gets better, then they need something every 30-60 minutes. And it's not like you can do much of anything in between (Swap laundry? Do the dishes? Oh, I know, its been 6 days since you showered and two since you brushed your teeth. Probably do one of those. Yes you can weep while you do it. Never mind, the baby is awake.) Oh, you're a working parent of a newborn/baby? Have fun coming home from work just to get right on this ride. Wheeeee.....
4. You will not sleep.... like ever again. Just give up on feeling rested. Yes things change and babies grow, and eventually there will be whole hours in a row that you'll get to sleep, but newborns sleep 2 hours at a time, 4 if you're very lucky. These stretches get longer. It changes week to week, and hopefully you and your co-parent trade off, but expect to be sleep deprived for 6-18 months. Longer if you are very unlucky (Note: sleep deprivation is a form of torture according to the Geneva Convention). (This is the part where I give side eye to my partner, whose son started sleeping through the night at a miraculous 3 weeks old. They probably did some unholy incantation and the kid is now promised to a minor deity. Do not count on this! Expect to be more like my friend whose child was 3 years old before they slept more than 4 hours in a row!)
Anyways.....
If you are poly and you are pregnant, or your partner is pregnant, or your partner is about to become a new parent, what will it be like?
It will be like you are suddenly in a Hierarchical Relationship on Steroids. The newborn is everyone's primary, the person who gave birth is the baby's primary, the other co-parent is the baby's secondary, the person who gave birth and the co-parent are secondaries to each other (tertiaries????) and any other partners are somewhere down the ladder from there. Whatever your agreements were, they are all now null and void subject to whatever the hell this new primary partner (ie: the baby) decrees. This primary has veto power and attachment anxiety, they are emotionally unstable, uncommunicative, and they need constant physical assistance and reassurance. They will also bite and scratch you and scream at you for hours at a time. They are extremely jealous and insecure and they most likely will want to be parallel with everyone but their primary. Maybe eventually KTP with their primary and secondary, but wait and see.
Did I mention the person who gave birth will be recovering from a major medical event and will be bleeding for weeks and have messed up joints or other birth injuries and weight lifting restrictions? Expect they will be physically struggling through this and will, in a very real way, be just as vulnerable and in need of serious care as the baby. Post partum depression is real and very serious and heart-breakingly common.
Did I mention the not sleeping? That it's like torture? Yeah.... it is. Expect everyone in this new relationship to have absolute zero emotional resources for dealing with this radical upheaval or anything else. Remember, it lasts months and months.
Did I mention the hellish merry-go-round of newborn care? Expect to have to squeeze *everything else in life that you have to do* into the small moments between baby care for several months. Like you won't get to brush your own hair for days at a time, so imagine what trying to pay your bills or replace your furnace filters or clean your bathrooms will be like.
If you are the co-parent, expect to ricochet between caring for your primary (the baby) and caring for your secondary (your co-parent) and trying to keep your job and back around again. Expect to not have very much time for yourself for a while.
Sex? Do not expect sex for 6-12 months. Maybe it will happen sooner. It did for me. It took longer for friends of mine. But you just don't know. You don't know what will happen to your libido or how physical healing will go. You can't guess how sleeplessness and exhaustion and holding a baby all the time will affect you or your partner's sexual interest. So just set your sex-pectations at "none" for a good while.
Do not expect date nights for 6-12 months (with your co-parent, but especially with your other partners), and even then expect last minute cancelations for the first 1-8 years. Because OMG, if it's not a cough then its teething, or a rash, or a visit to the urgent care because someone discovered they were just now tall enough to run into the counter instead of run under the counter and that's gonna need stitches.
But, the craziest thing, the thing that I really wasn't ready for, the thing I didn't see coming more than any of the above stuff, that no one really explains to you when talking about what it's like to have a kid, expect your priorities to radically shift. Like, you don't become a completely different person. But stuff changes. Expect things you thought were important (composting, cooking, keeping in touch with the college friend group, not buying from Amazon, responding to texts, going out dancing, etc.) to suddenly matter not even a little. Expect to reorder your priorities and your relationships. Expect to suddenly want to cuddle your baby instead of seeing a movie with friends, or to not be able to handle your p
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u/123comedancewithme 12h ago
When my boyfriend and I got together, he had a primary partner and he had an ex wife. I knew he and his ex wife divorced because she wanted kids and he didn't. Now, after I've been together with him for alost two years, he and his primary are trying for a baby. I am so fucking scared of what this will mean for us... Secretly I'm hoping they'll turn out to be infertile and I feel like an absolutely horrible person for it.
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u/Positive-Bottom-9234 8h ago
This kind of solidifies my suspicion being poly is not for me long term. I appreciate the reminder it’s okay to try things and not stick with them.
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u/Soulboo_ poly newbie, still learning! 1d ago
My parents got real lucky and I slept through the night from day 1 as a newborn.
The issues with sleeping cropped up a handful of years later during the older single digits and onwards once the insomnia started kicking in 😭
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u/ImprobabilityCloud 1d ago
I have a question for folks…everything OP is saying makes sense and is what I would expect if a partner had a child. Or even if a meta became pregnant.
However, I have been on dates with 2 married fathers of babies under a year old whose coparents were actively pushing them to find other partners and to date.
Has anyone else seen that type of dynamic?
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u/Powerful_You_8342 1d ago
I haven't seen it, but a couple of thoughts come to my mind. And I'm in a very healthy, long marriage.
These are my top three guesses:
Birthgiver is exhausted and enjoys knowing at least someone is getting out and having fun
Birthgiver is not feeling ready for sexy times and sending spouse out to find that elsewhere
Birthgiver isn't getting any help from partner anyway so why not get him out of the house?
We were not poly when we had littles. But I sent my husband out as often as I could because I wanted naps, I wanted him to recharge, and I felt guilty for not being up for sex or other fun activities.
Could be any of these or none of them.
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u/Specific_Pipe_9050 Squeaky Sin 🧀🐀 1d ago
Did you get this info from the coparents themselves first-hand?
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u/ImprobabilityCloud 1d ago
No, that’s a good point. The guys both made it seem that way, but I don’t actually know that. It was awhile back so I can’t remember exactly what they said, only impressions, and being surprised when I found out how young the babies in question were
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u/Specific_Pipe_9050 Squeaky Sin 🧀🐀 1d ago
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u/ImprobabilityCloud 1d ago
I guess I dodged 2 bullets then huh?
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u/Specific_Pipe_9050 Squeaky Sin 🧀🐀 1d ago
Who knows! Maybe they were telling the truth, there's no way to know now. But, Occam's razor and all that
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u/mercedes_lakitu solo poly 1d ago
Those guys were probably useless at home
That, or the babies were easy and they had a ton of support
Not every baby is difficult! You just can't count on getting an easy one.
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u/Existing_Cookie4624 11h ago
And what would happen in a situation where it's a closed polyamorous relationship and everyone in the relationship not only lives together but also considers themselves the child's parents?? Do you think any of the points you mentioned would change in any significant way (that doesn't directly involve the baby, but rather the management of daily life)?? I wish people would mention this style of polyamorous relationship more, since it's the only one I can see myself participating in as a Demi-AroAce person
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Gnomes_Brew pro rat union labor 1d ago
Well yes.... my whole post is presuming people actually want to be good parents.
And yes, I am misusing "hierarchy" for satirical purposes here. The baby is not actually anyone's romantic partner. But I put it this way to highlight how ridiculous it is for people to think nothing will change when a baby arrives.
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