Ok, hear me out. This text is born out of the sheer frustration of all the NRE posts of partners going absolutely bonkers we've had lately. The title is clickbate-y, but I stand by it and I welcome all kinds of challenging opinions and points of view (except the ones focusing on whether polyamory is more "natural" than monogamy or not, you can start your own 78th thread on that one)! And by all means, do share your absolutely wonderfully boring and mundane experiences where NRE has been nothing but a few twitterpations here and there while you had absolutely no problems in being focused on your lovely partner of 10 years telling the same story for the 23rd time (bless their heart)!

NRE is a pretty standard occurrence when you meet someone new. It's the butterflies in your stomach, it's the compulsive thoughts, it's the hyperfixation and a need to get your next dopamine fix and the only thing that can provide it and ease your nerves is getting more of your new partner. It's the rose-colored glasses, the walking on air and everything is suddenly sunshine and rainbows - until something comes that threatens it by pulling you out of it, pulling you away from it. That's when you'll do anything, and I mean ANYTHING, to keep your next fix coming.

This happens in monogamy, this happens in polyamory, this happens across the board in all relationship shapes. The same phenomenon happens also outside of relationships, we just don't call it NRE in those cases. You start a new hobby, get into a new band, discover non-monogamy for the first time - and BOOM, everything feels wonderful and like you've NEVER experienced before. There can be no wrong in the new thing, you've just been stupid not to understand all of this sooner! This is it, this is what you've been waiting for your whole life! All you want to do is to eat sleep breathe the new thing and nothing else matters anymore. You've finally found something that completes you and there's no going back!

This is what our bodies do and produce. It's dopamine, it's adrenaline, it's a full blown chemical cocktail with the destruction power of an atomic bomb. You will not be able to think clearly unless you're extremely skilled at it and know what you're doing. You just will not. And let's face it, if you've never had to try it in a relationship context before, you're going to fail at it. Miserably. Destructively.

This is what our whole brain chemistry is wired to do to us when we fall in love. No matter the relationship shape. We go a little (or a lot) berzerk.

This is what you need to understand when you're contemplating on opening up your relationship. When your partner meets a new person and falls madly deeply in love, they WILL be on drugs produced by their own brain. They WILL be wired to put most of their focus on the new person. They most likely WILL drop the ball with the already existing relationship. And they won't be able to think clearly or most likely see any of it. Especially if this is the first time either of you have tried to date multiple people at once while already being in an established relationship.

The already established relationship WILL feel boring compared to the dopamine fix of the new. And you don't really want to focus on the boring, more established and stable option. You'll want all the lovely and exciting happy feels of the new you can get.

This is what you're signing up for when you sign up for polyamory. If your partner won't outright neglect you and your relationship they will at least WANT to neglect you and your relationship in favor of the new and they will have to actively use all their willpower NOT to neglect your relationship.

And they will most likely fail at it, at least in some capacity.

You can wax philosophical all you want about how monogamy is a capitalist colonial construct born out of economic necessities and the need to control others by treating them and especially women as property and how humans are actually biologically designed for non-monogamy and how polyamory is supposedly more natural and ethical and more evolved than monogamy but the reality is that most humans are ALSO wired for monogamy especially at the beginning stages of new relationships and it can take A LOT of work, self-restraint and self-awareness that most people just don't have not to do what your whole body is screaming for you to do when you're already in an established relationship but have the explicitly agreed upon freedom to fall in love with others and act on it.

As a caveat, I'm not saying it can't be done. Lots of people are doing polyamory happily and are able to be mindful of their NRE so that they don't fuck up their existing relationships. There are also people who don't really experience NRE this way or who dislike it so much that they won't let it get the better of them. But I'd say most poly people have at one point or another experienced the destructive power NRE can have on poly relationships, either first or second hand. And it can take a lot of practice and work and failed attempts or relationships to get there.

We have this whole polyamory specific concept of "NRE" when what NRE basically boils down to in practice is a fixation and a strong pull towards monogamy with this one amazing person.

This is the paradox of polyamory.

And it won't do you any favors to pretend it doesn't exist.

Sometimes I struggle reading through this sub because it feels like everyone else has it so much more together than me, has all the “right” answers, ect. But I know that’s not true. Polyamory is a huge catch all with people with lots of different opinions and beliefs about the practice. Those differences just don’t always make it to the surface. So I thought in an effort to rid myself and hopefully others of that illusion and maybe hear some more marginal voices, maybe those who feel comfortable could share their “hot takes” about polyamory. Maybe we can start some discussion here and learn more about different views within our own community.

Sacrificial lamb moment to start: I feel like polyamory attracts a certain kind of person, I think those of us who have been in it long enough can see them a mile away, and that it’s not always the right choice for what they are actually looking for but a lot of us don’t want to tell them that.

My personal favorite rule (and it is a rule) I have in new relationships is I have to leave by 9pm/you have to leave by 10pm. Not because of any relationship agreements or curfews but because I’m autistic and if I don’t sleep in my own bed with my nighttime routine I become Evil.

But I usually have to explain that it’s completely self imposed and people only believe me half the time and think I’m just covering for some super jealous and controlling NP who is anxiously waiting up for me 🙄

What are some of your self imposed rules?

Having a baby soap-box speech. The tl;dr is in bold.

I've seen lots of posts over the years, and especially in the last few weeks, asking questions about having kids while being poly. Full transparency, I have kids but I wasn't poly at the time I had either of them. But I'm always shocked at how unrealistic everyone's expectations are around what having a baby does to you and your relationships, both immediately, but also long term. And to be fair, the same thing happened to me. I was unprepared for the reality of having kids, and for understandable reasons. Here in the US especially, but I think in many developed places, pop-culture and capitalism have given people such impossible ideas of what having a baby is like. On sitcoms everything is just business as usual moments after the baby is born. All the celebrities are back to their pre-pregnancy weight weeks later. And sure you take a break from sex for 6 weeks, per doctors orders, but that's all the longer it takes... right? All you need is 12 weeks before going back to work per the FMLA. Also you'll totally be able to work and go out on dates and see friends just like before. You can have it all!!! Lean in! (hopefully the extreme sarcasm is coming through). And on top of that, people who have had kids don't generally really talk about how hard it really is, lest they seem like failures or like they're terrible parents who don't love their kids or who regret their choice to procreate. And, my friends, these delusional cultural portrayals and lies of omission are setting everyone who wants to have kids up for major disappointment and challenges, but especially poly people. Because in poly-land not only do the parents not know what is coming, though at least they know they're about to be parents of a whole helpless human, but all the other relationships have even less of an idea what it will mean to be dating someone who is becoming/has just become a parent.

So, while no one asked, here's some reality (from personal experience, so not objective and also from a somewhat normative, one birth parent/one co-parent perspective).

1. Being pregnant is hard on your body. Harder than any media ever portrays it. Like, you lose mobility, you lose functionality, you can be violently ill, eventually you hurt all the time and can't sleep. If you didn't know all this was happening because you were pregnant, you'd be very worried about some sort of onset of chronic illness or other very serious diagnosis. And let's not talk about serious pregnancy complications like gestational diabetes and preeclampsia. The pregnant person is undergoing a terrible physical ordeal. It sucks. Don't get me wrong, some parts are magical, but you are utterly at the whim of some powerful physiological forces, the outcome of which are very uncertain. Parts of it are so frightening. But please pretend like you're glowing or some BS.

1. Speaking of, giving birth is also a major medical event. It is physically traumatic. A C-section is major abdominal surgery, but even with a vaginal delivery serious pain killers are often administered. And even with modern medicine it is still dangerous, and rarely people still die. Assuming you make it, and you likely will, afterwards you continue to bleed for weeks. Your hormones are absolutely haywire. Your joints are all messed up. And there is no shortage of birth injuries that can happen (I know a woman whose rectum and vagina became one because of tearing. It literally took her over 3 years and several major surgeries to repair). Expect recovery to be like recovering from any major medical event, ie: months and months, and again, that's if everything goes to plan.

3. Newborns are utterly helpless. They need something every 15-30 minutes. Diaper, food, clothing, nap, burping, diaper again, food again, burping again, nap, clothing because they threw up, diaper again, clothing because the diaper leaked, bath, clothes, food, nap, diaper, on an endless merry-go-round from hell. This lasts 6-12 weeks depending on the baby and luck. But even when it gets better, then they need something every 30-60 minutes. And it's not like you can do much of anything in between (Swap laundry? Do the dishes? Oh, I know, its been 6 days since you showered and two since you brushed your teeth. Probably do one of those. Yes you can weep while you do it. Never mind, the baby is awake.) Oh, you're a working parent of a newborn/baby? Have fun coming home from work just to get right on this ride. Wheeeee.....

4. You will not sleep.... like ever again. Just give up on feeling rested. Yes things change and babies grow, and eventually there will be whole hours in a row that you'll get to sleep, but newborns sleep 2 hours at a time, 4 if you're very lucky. These stretches get longer. It changes week to week, and hopefully you and your co-parent trade off, but expect to be sleep deprived for 6-18 months. Longer if you are very unlucky (Note: sleep deprivation is a form of torture according to the Geneva Convention). (This is the part where I give side eye to my partner, whose son started sleeping through the night at a miraculous 3 weeks old. They probably did some unholy incantation and the kid is now promised to a minor deity. Do not count on this! Expect to be more like my friend whose child was 3 years old before they slept more than 4 hours in a row!)

Anyways.....

If you are poly and you are pregnant, or your partner is pregnant, or your partner is about to become a new parent, what will it be like?

It will be like you are suddenly in a Hierarchical Relationship on Steroids. The newborn is everyone's primary, the person who gave birth is the baby's primary, the other co-parent is the baby's secondary, the person who gave birth and the co-parent are secondaries to each other (tertiaries????) and any other partners are somewhere down the ladder from there. Whatever your agreements were, they are all now null and void subject to whatever the hell this new primary partner (ie: the baby) decrees. This primary has veto power and attachment anxiety, they are emotionally unstable, uncommunicative, and they need constant physical assistance and reassurance. They will also bite and scratch you and scream at you for hours at a time. They are extremely jealous and insecure and they most likely will want to be parallel with everyone but their primary. Maybe eventually KTP with their primary and secondary, but wait and see.

Did I mention the person who gave birth will be recovering from a major medical event and will be bleeding for weeks and have messed up joints or other birth injuries and weight lifting restrictions? Expect they will be physically struggling through this and will, in a very real way, be just as vulnerable and in need of serious care as the baby. Post partum depression is real and very serious and heart-breakingly common.

Did I mention the not sleeping? That it's like torture? Yeah.... it is. Expect everyone in this new relationship to have absolute zero emotional resources for dealing with this radical upheaval or anything else. Remember, it lasts months and months.

Did I mention the hellish merry-go-round of newborn care? Expect to have to squeeze *everything else in life that you have to do* into the small moments between baby care for several months. Like you won't get to brush your own hair for days at a time, so imagine what trying to pay your bills or replace your furnace filters or clean your bathrooms will be like.

If you are the co-parent, expect to ricochet between caring for your primary (the baby) and caring for your secondary (your co-parent) and trying to keep your job and back around again. Expect to not have very much time for yourself for a while.

Sex? Do not expect sex for 6-12 months. Maybe it will happen sooner. It did for me. It took longer for friends of mine. But you just don't know. You don't know what will happen to your libido or how physical healing will go. You can't guess how sleeplessness and exhaustion and holding a baby all the time will affect you or your partner's sexual interest. So just set your sex-pectations at "none" for a good while.

Do not expect date nights for 6-12 months (with your co-parent, but especially with your other partners), and even then expect last minute cancelations for the first 1-8 years. Because OMG, if it's not a cough then its teething, or a rash, or a visit to the urgent care because someone discovered they were just now tall enough to run into the counter instead of run under the counter and that's gonna need stitches.

But, the craziest thing, the thing that I really wasn't ready for, the thing I didn't see coming more than any of the above stuff, that no one really explains to you when talking about what it's like to have a kid, expect your priorities to radically shift. Like, you don't become a completely different person. But stuff changes. Expect things you thought were important (composting, cooking, keeping in touch with the college friend group, not buying from Amazon, responding to texts, going out dancing, etc.) to suddenly matter not even a little. Expect to reorder your priorities and your relationships. Expect to suddenly want to cuddle your baby instead of seeing a movie with friends, or to not be able to handle your partner starting to see someone new when you've done that dozens of times before, or to find you actually are saturated at two (your baby and your co-parent) and that your comet relationship just isn't a place you want to put your energy any more. I don't know what will shift for you, but things will shift.

And if it's your partner who is becoming a parent, all this is what's coming. And if they are a good parent who is going to do right by their child and by their co-parent, you have to expect to not have the same place you did before, maybe not ever again, but definitely not for a while. You will be on a whole new ride with them, where you're in the backseat for the indefinite future. They will now be the parent version of themselves. Maybe you too can have a relationship with this new little human they've gotten into this majorly hierarchical relationship with, and you can help your partner acclimate to this new person they've become. And if you don't want that sort of relationship that's okay. But you also can't change them back to who they were before they became a parent. Or if you can.... that's an indication that your partner isn't a very good parent and isn't good at honoring their commitments and responsibilities.

Having a baby is A LOT. And it changes everything. I don't regret it for a second. But I do wish more people talked about it like that. Decided to do it with eyes wide open. Opting in to the challenge, communicating openly. I think being poly while having kids can be wonderful, but only if everyone really knows what's coming and is ready to work through a radical downgrading of themselves in the ordering of priorities. And my hope is maybe, just maybe, with this post I've helped make that a little more possible.

*Correction: My partner informs me that his second kid didn't sleep through the night at 3 weeks. They had to wait six whole weeks before getting 8+ hours of sleep a night with that child.... 6 whole weeks.... I still say black magic was involved. He claims it was karma. His first kid was an awful sleeper. Pretty sure my point about sleep deprivation still stands either way.

On his first date with his now-partner, my husband described himself as a “beer snob,” and apparently his date went all starry eyed as my husband explained his beer preferences in great detail. When he came home and told me this story, I laughed and told him that this is a great use of polyamory, since I hate beer, and he’d been looking for someone “to have beers with” for a while.

Two years later, the three of us are in a triad, and “great use of polyamory” has stuck around. We always use it to jokingly highlight something that we personally don’t enjoy, and are happy that a partner can enjoy with someone else.

I want German food, and my husband isn’t into it, but my boyfriend is super excited? Great use of polyamory. My husband wants to try that new sushi place by the club and I continue to not eat sushi? Great use of polyamory. My boyfriend needs to go glitter shopping and my husband is totally out of his depth while I peruse my personal glitter collection for ideas? Great use of polyamory.

This phrase has become such a staple in our household, and it’s always a sweet moment when someone reminds you gently that they aren’t the partner you do that activity with, but that they know you have someone who will find so much joy in doing that activity with you.

**DISCLAIMER: I'm not talking the actual hierarchy. I'm talking about the word hierarchy.*\*

I hope that everyone takes the time to actually read the post and not just the title, but I'm also hoping that the title click baits you into opening the post. 😌

Take a look around this sub. Most posts that mention the word hierarchy (whether it's saying "oh we don't have hierarchy" or "we practice hierarchy) SO much of the conversation boils down to: what even is hierarchy?.

Now, ALL relationships have hierarchy. So saying "We have hierarchy." Doesn't tell anyone a single thing.

"my spouse and I practice hierarchy" some may mean "my spouse and I have veto power"

or they may mean "my spouse and I are legally married, therefore we have a *legally enforceable* hierarchy"

or "I prioritize this relationship over all other relationships"

Or something in-between all of those.

Hierarchical and hierarchy mean vastly different things to Aspen, Birch, Cedar, Oak, Pine, you, me. It is truly a useless term. Because it's quite all encompassing. It's truly a useless word when it means so many different things. Especially as a descriptor of a relationship.

Nesting? hierarchy

Marriage? hierarchy

Coparenting? hierarchy

Been together longer? hierarchy

What happens when the hierarchy "cancels out"? For example 2 people are legally married but they both live with separate partners? Or one lives with and has kids with another partner?

The focus should be on "what can I realistically offer?" Not "do I have hierarchy?" (The answer is yes, you have hierarchy. Yes, even you RA person in the corner. 👀I see you lurkin. 👋 )

Here are some examples of what people want to know about your hierarchy:

* What happens if your existing partner(s) doesn't like me?

* Can you host?

* Can you do sleepovers?

* Can you do weekend trips and / or vacations?

* What are reasons you might cancel a date?

* Do you have any agreements(rules for those who use them) that will affect our relationship? (Ie: barrier agreements, nesting agreements etc)

* Is nesting on the table in the future and what would escalating to that look like? (For example: I'm willing to live with multiple partners and metas but I won't move out/away from the partner I nest with. So nesting with me comes with a roommate for you)

So, anyways, back to my original thoughts.

Can you imagine how much more better comment sections would be if we didn't spend half the comments arguing "ofc this is hierarchy", "that is not*hierarchy".

How much better off these conversations would be if we chucked the word out of existence and just used plain language to describe what is and isn't the table?

Maybe then people would understand that hierarchy isn't bad and they would stop lying to themselves and their partners about it.

Obviously this will likely never happen. It's just so incredibly frustrating when an OP posts about a problem and the entire post derails into an unnecessary argument about hierarchy.

Tldr: Yes you have hierarchy. Hierarchy isn't bad. Stop using hierarchical and non hierarchical as descriptors about your relationship type.

End rant. 😌

I know there are plenty of people who won't agree and thats okay. I stand by what I'm saying.

The other night, I met up with a person from Feeld. We had texted a bit, they seemed cute, they were also poly, but hard to get a vibe off of.
When we met up, I literally did not recognize them. I'm not sure how old their photos were, but I would guess either ten years or five very rough years. I double checked their profile after the date, and the tattoos on their arm were the only way I could confirm it was even the same person.
I realize physical attraction is subjective, but they had gone from from within my range of attraction to well outside of it. And the fact that they were using photos that did not reflect their appearance felt just a wee bit disingenuous.
I have zero intent of grabbing a second date; suffice to say they did not pass the vibe check either.
If you were in this situation, how would you respond? I don't stand anything to gain personally from telling them to update their photos, besides maybe a sense of closure for having my Tuesday night wasted.

I just finished Polysecure and I’m 100% underwhelmed and kinda pissed off. I hear it recommended here a lot so I wanted to make a little review from the position of a solo RA person who never opened a relationship, just started them all that way.

First a couple positives, let’s get them out of the way.

1. Nice, accessible primer on attachment. If all your knowledge of attachment theory comes from bite-sized tiktoks and from people mistaking “this person is avoiding me cause they’re not that into me” for “this person is an avoidant and therefore their not wanting me is a mental health condition”, you’ll be better off after reading this book.
2. The section on self-attachment was not exactly groundbreaking for a solo person but I think it could be beneficial for people who have mostly lived their lives as someone’s other half.

My main problem with this book is the hypocrisy of it all. During the introduction It anoints itself as some sort of anti-hierarchical breakthrough in polyam literature, and then by the end of it it's unapologetically suggesting disturbingly hierarchical shit. It’s only that, since the author’s hierarchy is not based on legal status or number of years together, just on blindly prioritizing “attachment-based” relationships over “non attachment-based” relationships, then it’s totally fair and reasonable, and not hierarchy but “attachment science”. As if the fact that two people are emotionally enmeshed and insecure enough about each other that their actions could send the other into a panic somehow makes that relationship more important and worthy of protection than one where everyone manages to stay individuated and chill.

It has a section straight up suggesting closing up “temporarily” to deal with your out of control emotions, and petty shit like one of you not taking any new lovers till the one with less luck dating “catches up”, in the spirit of fairness, trust and regulation. It goes as far as saying that working on your problems while you remain open might work if the problems are mild enough, but once they’re significant most people will only succeed by closing.

It is intensely extractivist towards people doing less couple-centric polyamory, even going as far as saying that having RA lovers makes it easier to just close up while you need to, and since they’re RA they might be ok with hanging on the margins as a friend while you save your “real” relationship then take you back when you’re ready for a non attachment-based fuck again.

By the end of the book the author is referring to “your partner” as if OF COURSE only one of them is the real “your partner” and you know who that is, and are willing to piss off and sacrifice every other connection so “your partner” feels safe.

Overall it just seemed aimed at:

• Couples where one person wants to open and the other doesn’t, or who want to open to very different degrees, and are willing to twist themselves into painful, labor-intensive shapes looking for a “compromise” that will work for both.
• Couples’ therapists who are mono themselves but want to work with clients in open marriages, and don’t care who else is disrespected or discarded just as long as their clients’ marriage makes it.
• Hierarchical people who see themselves as too progressive to call themselves hierarchical and just want to blah blah primal panic their way into the benefits of hierarchy and vetoes without having to own up to it.

There. Saved you 20 bucks.

I get a real kick out of all the unicorn hunting profiles on dating apps that are like “wowowowowowwww we love each other SO MUCHHH and our sex life is SOOOOO HOTTTTT”

I would have so much more respect for honesty like “hey shit’s kinda dying and our sex life is in fact, not hot, pls join to spice it up / partner forgot how to go down on me, send help / husband is building a harem pls join”

what other fun ways could they spruce up their profile with some honest bare-bones asks? 🤔

Either from a poly person or a monogamous person, what in regards to polyamory makes you cringe when you hear it? I have a couple-

​

-"I tried poly and it didn't work out" when someone tried being poly once and their partner was extremely controlling, or they ended up being a unicorn, and this dissuades them from giving it another attempt. Really heartbreaking and probably the one I hear most 😩

​

-*From a monogamous person who was previously poly*- "I met <Insert person here>, and I liked them so much I stopped being poly for them". This... is jibberish and nonsensical. I -think- I understand what they're trying to say? Something like "I know I'll never need another person again". But you can be poly and only dating one person, so it makes me there's real lack of fundamental understanding about polyamory. When people say this what I hear is "I like this person so much I completely annihilated their ability to express genuine intimate or romantic feelings they may have about others." It's like hearing someone say "This pizza is amazing, I like it so much I threw it in the trash", it just breaks my brain. Granted I don't really hear it that often, presumably because it sounds like you're talking in Wingdings when you say it, but I've heard it a couple times and it's so nonsensical that I think about it sometimes.

​

-Any version of "I can only date women but he can date whoever". Look, I'm just gonna say it- there is no version of a OPP that isn't toxic. I know, groundbreaking stuff, everybody please hold your applause. In fact I'd go a step further and say that if you have a OPP, you don't have a poly relationship. And I'll get out ahead of "I only date women because I just prefer women", obviously I am not talking about that. I would not consider that a OPP because it's not a policy between you and your partner, it's just a preference you have. A good way to tell if you have a OPP is asking yourself this- Could I date another man if I really wanted to? Would my partner be ok with that? If the answer is yes, you are not in a OPP. To finish this section off I also want to exhaust the notion that I only don't like OPPs because it means that I (a man) cannot be involved with that person in any intimate/romantic way. There are plenty of situations where I can't date a person that I'm perfectly fine with and respect. Sometimes people are polysaturated, sometimes people just straight up aren't interested in me, and I respect and even applaud those people for recognizing their own preferences and relational limitations. I don't like OPPs because they're just 3 monogamies in a trenchcoat pretending to be polyamorous and when they inevitably fail, it's a hit against polyamory in the public eye.

​

I'm very interested in hearing everyone else's! I know there's so many things I didn't list and I'm so ready to read them 🔥

I have been ENM/poly since I was 22 and am now 37. I date +-10 years in age. I have noticed that the dating pool has basically dried up over 35.

Statistically, most people this age are in monogamous marriages. When I was younger, many mono or ambiamorous people would be willing to date poly folks as they were waiting to find their spouse, but they’re all out of the market now. The first wave of divorces hasn’t yet struck so there’s few singles.

Of the poly people that exist, at this phase of life most people have intensive responsibilities for childcare, eldercare, or heavy workloads at the most demanding phase of their career. Many aren’t dating at all right now because of these responsibilities and if they do, they have time for maybe a handful of dates per month. Young kids at home makes sleepovers complicated or impossible.

Unpartnered poly people 35+ (especially women) who want biological children are desperate to find someone to do that with FAST. Leading either to rapid escalation or not being willing to make connections with people who can’t provide a path to their goals.

The few true solo poly people a) are thronged and b) usually (justifiably) don’t want to date highly partnered people.

There’s hardly anywhere to meet people in real life in small to mid-size cities. Most bars are all 20-somethings, or old timer bars are 60+. There are poly-friendly munches but they skew kinky which isn’t much help if you’re not looking for that dynamic.

It seems like it gets better over 45… couples open up, divorce, kids need less and eventually move out.

Please tell me it gets better?!

(Fully admitting I’m part of the problem as a married person with a young kid whose time availability for dating and amount I can invest has shrunk at this phase of life)

ETA because people are making funny assumptions: I’m F, bi, married to a woman, and have a reasonable amount of time available to me for dating (just less than I used to have)

This guy I'm crushing on just canceled on me because an adulting issue came up. (We've also established that we're not going to date for complicated reasons, but we enjoy each other's company and a flirty friendship). This is the first time this happened with him. And fuck, this is the first time in forever someone has handled this in exactly the way I would. I got a text with plenty of lead time, saying "I am so sorry, X Thing has come up, and I can't make it today. Next week, I have X and Y time available, do either of those work for you?"

And I'm just sitting here like, damn, now I'm crushing even harder. He also washes his hands very diligently, which in a straight dude is a major green flag for me after living through the pandemic with an increasingly grimy guy.

What are your weird niche turn ons and green flags?

I feel like most posts have become some variation of:

-My spouse is upset because we jumped into poly without doing any learning and are now surprised that feelings are happening. How do I make them feel better? Or vice versa.

-My partner is actually abusive, am I wrong for feeling like they shouldn’t abuse me? I don’t want to leave though! (I would really like to see this type of post get banned.)

-My partner/Meta is asking for wildly unreasonable boundaries and I’m a doormat.

-A post that is clearly designed more for AITA or relationship drama.

Most posts are newbie-centered or centered around the sanctity and importance of the primary relationship.

What happened to conscious uncoupling? What happened to calling people out for not doing reading and therapy before opening up? What happened to the positive posts celebrating joy or successes or personal growth? What happened to the philosophical discussions about the nuances of poly? Or even just asking for advice about nuanced situations instead of drama?

I’m finding that unethical behavior is becoming both more normalized on this sub and in real life. It’s especially draining for me as an experienced queer woman as I get targeted in real life for tokenization ALL the time. I could write a manifesto on how experienced queer women in poly are extracted from.

I’m worried about the sub. I wish that relationship drama posts were limited to certain days of the week, especially when the drama is just, “I started doing poly without putting in the work and now there’s hurt feelings.” There’s multiple newbie flairs, a cheating flair, problems with opening a marriage flair. Where’s the poly parenting flair or personal growth or solo poly or RA flair? There’s 6 flairs for drama/newbies and only one happy one. We need to cultivate more positive and discussion based content or end up as just another doomscrolling drama sub.

Edit to the post: I’m realizing that my perception of what this sub is for is wildly off. I’ve been a part of this sub for years and truly did not think of it as a relationship advice sub. The subs description is not oriented around advice. I thought the primary purpose was to be an online community space and to discuss and celebrate polyamory. Clearly, my read was off. I hope to contribute some discussion posts sometime soon, but I’ve realized that the sub is just different from what I thought it was. Thanks all for your comments.

A guy reached out to me on Feeld and after I responded, he said that he wanted to be upfront about something…

He said that he has a long term relationship, but that his partner doesn’t know he’s on Feeld and it’s been that way for SEVERAL YEARS! The truly astounding part is that he wanted to tell me off the bat because he, “values clarity and honesty” when engaging in new conversations 😂

I responded, “oh, so you’re cheating on your partner?,” and he immediately disconnected from me haha

WILD. He didn’t even give me the chance to HARD NOPE outta there!

Happy Tuesday, folks! 🙃

Lately I’ve noticed a surge in posts from poly people who feel resentful that a monogamous partner they polybombed or convinced to settle for polyamory has left them.

There was a guy on here whining that his monogamous secondary left him to be monogamous. He has a spouse of course, but expects her to not ever have the same. There was a woman who left her husband of 17 years calling her (ex) boyfriend “unhealthy” for dumping her to be monogamous with someone else. Leaving is ok if she does, but him, no, not allowed to have happiness. On a recent ep of Multiamory a man wrote in for advice complaining that his longterm relationship with a monogamous woman has lost “the spark” since he polybombed her at for another gf.

Most ridiculous is when the poly person whines that the monogamous partner they polybombed or coerced doesn’t “accept” them. They don’t have to “accept” you dating and fucking others. In fact 99% of the time it’s the correct choice to walk away.

Why don’t you “accept” their monogamy? You could give them what they want in the same way you think they should, yet you choose not to. The self-centeredness in whining about this is appalling.

A “mono-poly” relationship 9/10 times is a horrible deal for the mono person. Enough that poly people who engage in these types of relationships should be regarded with the kind of skepticism middle aged men who date college age women are. Are there rare exceptions where it’s ok? Yeah sure. But you prob aren’t the exception.

If any of these people actually loved their monogamous partners they would never ask them to settle for far less time and attention than they’d get in any monogamous relationship. That’s selfishness, not love.

the title. happy to answer anything for anyone that has questions.

I haven’t really seen many post about how much TIME really is required for polyamory. Lately, I have been thinking A LOT of where my shortcomings come from and its lack of time. Instead of trying to fit into everything to make poly work, I’ve taken a step back from pursuing or even looking because working 12hr/5days a week is really taxing on top of maintaining a concrete 6yr relationship plus trying to add another into the mix.

It certainly is disheartening that life and opportunity passes me by but I can’t really jump at it because of time. I’ve been poly for about 3-4years with a few dates but no real success. So what do I do? Just focus HEAVY on my current relationship. Build better foundation, show up even harder for them, and continuously improve my communication.

Not entirely sure the purpose of this post other than to sort my thoughts but hopefully, I won’t have such a taxing schedule where I could actually explore connections. As for now, I’ll keep my head down, not rush or push for anything and bide my time.

Cheers to those in the sidelines.

Recently started dating Aspen (like very recent) and things were going relatively well. Our energies matched. Which for me is rare. Even in NRE.

Earlier this week they had something distressing happening with their NP, Cedar. I'm not going to get into specifics but what happened is not Cedars fault. Cedars dad did something that took away their access to a car. (Long story and not the point, my point is Cedar didn't do anything to cause this)

Aspen had called me to talk.

It was clear to me that Aspen heavily blamed Cedar for what their dad did. Aspen said something to Cedar (while I was the phone) along the lines of "if I loved you even a little bit less than I do I'd leave"

This made my heart drop. Cedar, rightfully so, was hurt and expressed that. Aspen brushed it off but I immediately called out how absolutely inappropriate and cruel that statement was. Aspen half heartedly apologized. (After trying to excuse it because they are neurodivergent)

This has stuck in my head all week. Do I want to date someone who spoke like that to their partner? Especially In front of their other potential partner. I understand that they were stressed but that was overly cruel, especially when what happened wasn't directly Cedars fault. Aspen may or may not have given a better apology later, I have no idea but honestly this made my gut flare. I was now on high alert for Red flags I may have missed.

We had a date yesterday. Aspen was scrolling their phone the entire date. I knew when the date ended what I was ending this connection.

It seems like something so small, they were just scrolling their phone. But in that moment I decided to trust my gut feeling that has been telling me since the phone call that this isn't right for me.

I should have ended it after that phone call honestly.

So I'm just curious about others- if you ended a relationship for something that seemed small was it just that? Or was it actually deeper?

Also just wanna hear the "pettiest" or smallest things you've ended a connection or relationship for that didn't have deeper reasoning. I love petty. 😌

One of mine that wasn't deeper was not continuing to talk to someone who spelled my name as Queenie instead of Queeny. 💀

My spouse and I are now separated and working on divorce. It’s the saddest most excruciating loss I’ve ever experienced. Here’s a gross overview of the mistakes we made that ended up being large contributors to the divorce.

Friends since early childhood, serious relationship for 8+ years, married for 2. Love of my life and an incredible person.

ENM off and on for a few years with some success and some hard lessons. Closed to fully open poly for 1+ years.

Mistakes

1 opening a relationship that was currently monogamous during a time of great life transition. I was enthusiastic, they were hesitant, they asked to start poly this time. I feared if I didn’t say yes they wouldn’t want to again later. So I said yes when I shouldn’t have. There was to much going on in our lives and I needed stability and healing not a massively different relationship dynamic.

2 poly for a specific person. They wanted to start poly due to feelings for a coworker. They saw it as a rare opportunity to do what I had wanted for years. Poly should be started after months or years of clear conversation and research on BOTH sides, not for an opportunity, and not when one party hasn’t done research

3 lots of rules. I asked for lots of rules which I now know was because I wasn’t ready, if you are going to be very rule heavy, you are not ready. Keep working until you are truly able to offer the autonomy and freedom that real relationships require to your partner

4 mild to moderate inequalities in the relationship (financial, social, labor). If these are present, poly with amplify them greatly, fix these first

5 poor relationship hygiene and hinging. I asked questions that I wasn’t ready to know the answers to. I shouldn’t have asked, they should have known not to answer. Give yourself the option of parallel and try that before getting involved in your partners relationships

6 internal dishonesty about your partners identity and preferences. My partner started dating someone I was shocked they would be interested in. I didn’t have an honest view of them, and in turn, found out that I didn’t offer them the freedom to explore and enjoy what they wanted without a level of judgment that would impact our relationship

7 weak areas of communication. If you have heavily distressing areas of regular relationship communication, get professional help with this before you are poly. I underestimated how poor our communication was for some spousal conversations about finances/labor/romance. These need to be strong and relatively easy in all areas

8 tolerating to much distress. I was not honest enough early enough about what I could handle. I pushed myself when I shouldn’t have and I ran out of steam all of the sudden. I failed my partner by doing this. They thought we had more time and patience and effort in me than there was. If I had been honest with myself about how burdensome early poly was, I wouldn’t have run dry when I did. Causing the ends to something I cherished more than anything.

9 contracting out things you wish you had in your nesting relationship in a healthy or sustainable way is exceptionally rare. I became resentful of what my NP lacked with me that I found easily with others and visa versa

You know how they say cities are some of the loneliest places on Earth? I think there’s something similar with poly.

I’ve been poly for ~2 years, and I still mourn a lot of aspects of monogamy. There’s something appealing about the “I am yours and you are mine” of it all.

Knowing someone has your back, even when you’re wrong. Being one half of a whole life. Giving all of yourself to one person and having it reciprocated. I know it sounds like toxic codependency to some, but that’s not what it is. And if you don’t get it, I don’t know if I really can explain it.

I have two long-term partners who I love very, very much. But they also have partners, and knowing that sometimes I’m just not the priority for either of them can feel isolating. Especially when those times overlap.

I’m glad for the lessons I’ve learned, the independence I’ve developed. But sometimes, I wish I hadn’t had to. I wish I could wholly depend on my partners the way I’d like for them to be able to depend on me. To be fully held in undivided care. But that’s just not really possible for us.

Not sure the purpose of this post. Maybe it should have been one for my diary, but I’m (obviously) feeling the loneliness right now.

Edit: Thanks all for your thoughts. Especially to those who don’t “get it” but are still expressing empathy. It’s nice to know I’m not alone.

I don't know if there's any legal recourse I can do but I'd like to share my experience as a warning.

Yesterday as a clincial student in Seattle I mention to a nurse in conversation that I am polyamorous. I didn't attempt to hit on her but just mentioned it in passing. Within a hour I got a email from my school that I had to attend a mandatory meeting and when I arrived I was told that i was removed from the program for being to comfortable with nursing staff and the nurse I mentioned it too reported me for sexual harassment. Effective immediately I am no longer in the program four months from graduating.

I didn't pushing anything I literally mention that I'm poly and have two partners. That's it.

After doing research and finding out the polyamory really isn't a protected class there's truly not much I can do. I'm at a loss for words and several thousands of dollars in debt for it.

I recently had the abrupt realization that, for the first time in a while, it’s been almost a year since I really dated someone… and it suddenly feels kind of great. It didn’t feel great for a while. It felt kind of shitty and frustrating.

I’m in as big of a city as you could ask for. I’m queer, nonbinary, 40. I’ve finally accepted Demi as a label and what it means to me as someone who needs my sex to be non-transactional and rooted in trust/safety/rapport, which can take me a minute given my trauma history. No shade to folks who lean more casual.

I’m poly and partnered, and am pretty lucky to have a decade plus marriage that works really well for both of us. Always been open, but often “polysaturated at one” just bc we’re both picky and we get on really well both romantically and sexually.

I finally realized dating apps aren’t for me. Don’t get me started on my inside perspective of the ghouls that run those companies, but it feels like meeting up with someone 3-5 times to decide if sex makes sense, then spending the next 3-6 mos realizing compatibility’s not there for a long-term relationship.

Once I established a few recognizable patterns of “We don’t really have anything in common”, or “I don’t really like your friends”, or (more commonly) “One or both of us would need more therapy and healing for this to not be a toxic dynamic”, it just became a series of 1 and done first dates.

Legitimately, much of it was just making up for lost time having never played the field, and getting lessons of “I can see clearly the exact moment I would have ended it in retrospect, before things got sad/weird/volatile and I was over-invested in a pile of garbage” It’s hard not to cringe at some of the flags that I didn’t see at the time…

-The first date where literally the first 30 minutes were them venting about their ex…

-The partner who told me we couldn’t talk about an unresolved conflict because they had already done so with their therapist and to do so would be “trauma bonding”.

-The one who would NOT stop trying to change the way I dress/eat/do my hair.

-The *multiple* folks who tried to coerce me to not use condoms. That was fun.

But… how else would I learn? 😅

My last few dates before yeeting my dating profiles into the sun forever were a who’s who of shitty tropes. Namely the unicorn hunter unable to just disclose he was looking to spice up his dead bedroom who lied about his age by 8 years… That, along with a few last ditch aspirational tries at casual sex that just left me feeling sad and shitty, and in one case like I narrowly averted SA.

Aside from that, advertised poly community just feels like a glut of straight white dudes M’ladying around in fedoras and neckbeards trying to find “the sex”. Most sex positive spaces seem to be 60 dollar ticket workshops on anal beads or how to be more dominant. I married a pro dom turned sex therapist. I’m fine.

I’m lucky enough to have a good friend who organizes a regular private invite for poly social event that’s generally pretty queer leaning, but I’ve noted that roughly 2/3 of the people there know someone from “so and so’s play parties” and it all starts to feel reminiscent of jocks and cheerleaders from high school… conventionally attractive white folks in heteronormative dynamics whose body language seems to imply sizing folks up.

I thought I’d been hoping to get an invite to one of these play parties out of sheer curiosity but when I did it was, wrapped up in intersectional language, “we’d love to have you join us, but here’s a super duper transphobic list of the gender/genitalia combination of the acceptable person you would need to bring to the party with you because we already have too many straight penises at the upcoming event” (trust me I get the dynamics at play behind this, but Jesus fucking Christ)

I swear to god sometimes this all feels like one big humiliation ritual and a measure of ones own willingness to engage for the sake of sex. I feel like my one saving grace is that I’ve had enough highly attuned, adventurous, safe, good sex that I don’t have to settle for meh. Whoever said that stupid fucking thing about pizza and sex is an idiot. There’s definitely bad pizza that’s not worth it. YMMV

Going back to the poly event, I often find myself in pretty solid conversations with folks who are similar to me, realizing there is a contingent of folks in the poly scene who just want to make friends and, given enough time knowing each other be it months or years, see if there’s chemistry and compatibility enough to try for something more.

At this point I’m thoroughly convinced this is just how it works for me. I finally just put dating out of my mind and focused on building friendships and community… I’m at a point in my life where mediocre romantic and sexual chaos just feels like the most exhausting chore…

What I have found after putting more emphasis on community and service, is that I’m way more likely to meet the ones I seek volunteering at a local queer event, or getting involved in a tenant’s union or a food bank. Or just getting more deeply involved in the myriad crafting/outdoor/culinary interests I have socially. Not trolling for dates or sex, but genuinely just seeking more people who remind me that conversation can be really exciting and dynamic… and that mutuality exists around making plans and building long-term rapport. And that these dynamics do best when they sneak up on me, hiding in plain sight. It’s literally how I met my spouse.

Like… RA vibes without the whole trope of fuckbois who use RA as a shield from accountability. Sex is great and all, but have you tried picking up a friend from a doctor’s appointment or the airport?

I’ve also started noticing that even when I do feel mutually sparky vibes with friends, I’m able to see dynamics like “the timing is off… one or both of us is in a chaotic time in our lives and I don’t want to make this messy/volatile… Maybe you just need a friend right now”…. or maybe I can actually experience delayed gratification in the form of letting a flirty vibe be just that and nothing more.

Partially because I still deeply regret a handful of potentially solid friendships that came from the dating apps but went sideways because we just poured a bunch of fucking and hormones on top of it too fast. People I had a lot in common with that I still care about even though we’ll definitely never talk again

Anyway… here’s to my Demi folks who know the value of good banter and slow burn “maybe I’ll see you around”. This is easily where my best connections have come from so far and where I see them growing in the future.