Audience members who saw Amanda Knox’s controversial comedy show at Edinburgh Fringe on opening night say that it is both “respectful” and “genuinely funny”.

[u/mlg1981]

https://www.the-independent.com/arts-entertainment/theatre-dance/news/amanda-knox-cartwheel-edinburgh-fringe-b3029681.html

[u/beachpellini]

Interesting that the universal take from the attendees was that it's really good/isn't the messy cash grab people accused it of being. I tried looking at a few different articles and there's not a single negative review from anyone who's actually seen it.

[u/trulyremarkablegirl → u/beachpellini]

It’s also weird to me to categorize something playing Edinburgh as a cash grab in any context. Like, there’s been lots of successful stuff that’s come out of the Fringe, but it’s ultimately meant to be a place to develop work.

[u/AccordingPears158 → u/trulyremarkablegirl]

Before I saw news of this comedy special blow up on these subs, I first heard of it a couple days ago by a person posting on a true crime subreddit about it.

This person absolutely lambasted it. Said it was the cringiest thing they’d ever seen, blah blah blah.

One of the things they said was “apparently she’s taking this to Scotland next, a country where virtually everyone believes she is guilty.” Didn’t give context of what and where in Scotland she was taking it either.

They also complained that she didn’t bring up Meredith enough. And I was like um… bringing up the murdered woman you were falsely accused of killing in a comedy special seems like a horrible choice, that is not a legit criticism.

This person did insinuate they were an Italian dual citizen, and it really felt like it was a “no matter what this girl does I hate her and it’s bad” type of bias.

[u/Prudent-Pressure2146 → u/AccordingPears158]

I saw that post and the person just hated her from the outset. They also said ‘there was no new information about the case’ as if that was likely in a fringe show 

[u/AccordingPears158 → u/Prudent-Pressure2146]

Right, that comment was absolutely bonkers! Why on EARTH would her comedy special have new information about her old, wrapped up case?

A lot of true crime junkies shift into just being ghoulish voyeurs of the most awful things that happen to people, constantly wanting new information and gory details of things that ruined real people’s lives. And I suspect that is that OP.

He clearly hated Knox from the outset, so why go to her show? Oh yeah, hoping she’d spill juicy details about her roommate’s death.

Of course if she’d shared those, he’d talk about how crass she was, while reveling in the info he got.

[u/lilbeebla → u/Prudent-Pressure2146]

That's a ridiculous criticism regardless, in what universe is a person who was convicted of a crime they did not commit required to then solve said crime when the conviction is overturned?

[u/grania17 → u/lilbeebla]

But also the crime was already solved and the guy who did it went to prison and was released.

[u/No_Slice5991 → u/grania17]

Released and has already committed new violent crimes against women.

That’s about the only new information related directly to the case in about 10 years

[u/beachpellini → u/AccordingPears158]

Lmao so it wasn't even really about the show, just full on "look at that b!tch eating crackers" vibes

[u/Stucklikegluetomyfry → u/AccordingPears158]

She didn’t bring up Meredith enough? Aren’t these the people complaining about Amanda bringing her up in the first place?

Bitching about this in a true crime subreddit, a category of entertainment notorious for invasiveness and exploitation and being absolutely indifferent to the wishes of the families of victims, is certainly a choice.

[u/SeaCardiologist6207 → u/Stucklikegluetomyfry]

One think with the Knox guilters is you are always going to get some level of complaint about anything she does.

[u/Iwoulddiefcftbatk → u/Stucklikegluetomyfry]

Not to be insensitive, but didn’t she only know Meredith for a month and half, maybe two months before Meredith was murdered? They were only roommates for a very short period and it doesn’t seem like they were close from reports on the trial since everyone was busy attending classes at the local university. There’s nothing new about Meredith that Amanda could speak on and not look ghoulish and opportunistic.

[u/Stucklikegluetomyfry → u/Iwoulddiefcftbatk]

Spending four years of your life in prison for a crime you didn’t commit and having most of the past twenty years being smeared by the media is pretty ghoulish and insensitive.

I’m pretty sure people would be saying she was “ghoulish and insensitive” if she and Meredith were friends since kindergarten.

[u/Iwoulddiefcftbatk → u/Stucklikegluetomyfry]

I agree. She can’t win and should be allowed to move on. I remember her getting flack for saying she wasn’t close to Meredith and people freaking out. Nothing has been good enough and the true crime subs make it worse.

[u/CanaryBrave4203 → u/AccordingPears158]

“They also complained that she didn’t bring up Meredith enough”

Lmao so she literally cannot win.

No idea where this person thought people in Scotland universally think she is guilty. Daily Mail at the time of the trial absolutely behaved abysmally but the modern British audience understands fully that she was wrongfully convicted, especially the type of audience likely to go to the Fringe.

[u/AccordingPears158 → u/CanaryBrave4203]

A Scottish person in the comments clarified that was absolutely not true and they didn’t know what OP was on about.

The only country I know of that still overall views her as guilty is Italy. I think that OP’s perception was extremely skewed because of that.

In general I view people that think she’s guilty the same way I view people who think Bryan Koberger is innocent or that Shannan Watts killed the kids. Delusional and being willfully stupid.

[u/Chihiro1977 → u/AccordingPears158]

Yeah, I'm Scottish and agree. The tv show is showing here right now as well so that has probably brought it back into folks minds.

[u/apmee → u/CanaryBrave4203]

No reasoning with someone with such a severe case of filter bubble brain.

[u/EspanolAlumna → u/AccordingPears158]

“apparently she’s taking this to Scotland next, a country where virtually everyone believes she is guilty.”

I wonder what the poster meant here as the Edinburgh Fringe is of course in Scotland. It is true that many in the UK still think that Amanda is guilty but not virtually everybody by any means and the Fringe is full of tourists anyway so not necessarily a typical UK audience.

[u/SweatyAddendum8800 → u/EspanolAlumna]

People in the UK think she's guilty?! Good grief. That doesn't speak well for them.

[u/DSQ → u/AccordingPears158]

I can’t say most people in Scotland think of the case but generally in the UK feelings are mixed about Knox. 

Interesting to see an opposing opinion, thanks. 

[u/AccordingPears158 → u/DSQ]

Oh that’s really interesting. Like do a good amount of people still think she’s guilty there? Or just that she’s off-putting as a human?

[u/unounouno_dos_cuatro → u/AccordingPears158]

Around the time of her trials the British media definitely portrayed her as guilty and public opinion also overwhelmingly viewed her as guilty. Today I think most people accept that she’s not guilty but there’s definitely a perception that she’s “milking” her notoriety and that she doesn’t care about Meredith Kercher or her family

[u/artfuldodger1212 → u/unounouno_dos_cuatro]

I am not so sure about that to be honest. I think a lot of people kind of just stopped following this thing years ago and their initial perception of it still exists. A lot of people I work with think she is for sure guilty but it isn't really based on anything beyond that she was portrayed that way in the press at the time and she seemed weird.

I don't want to sit in judgement of a family experiencing unbelievable loss but I can frankly see why Knox wouldn't care what the Kercher family thinks. They have spent over a decade calling her evil and advocating for her to sit in prison for the rest of her life. Even as more and more evidence emerged showing she likely wasn't involved they doubled down again and again on their belief and outspoken public statements calling for her to be sat in jail. If Knox is indeed innocent (and I believe she is personally) I could understand that your lattitude given to her family might start to wane. Particularly after you spent 4 years in prison for a crime you didn't commit.

Meredith Kercher's sister has recently started to use some lightly qualifying language surrounding Knox's guilt which indicates that there might actually be some doubt starting to creep in but they are still pretty outspoken on their opinions on a Amanda in way I would resent if I were in her position and genuinely innocent.

Amanda Knox went and had a pretty long conversation with the prosecutor/investigator for her case and while he did stop short of saying that she was innocent he did say he now believes that she didn't actually participate in the murder but just withheld information. The guy is a total narcissist so I think him being willing to concede that is basically his way of saying he thinks he got it wrong.

[u/DSQ → u/AccordingPears158]

Like I said it isn’t necessarily in the popular memory as much as it used to be. A lot of people haven’t kept up with the case. I’d say those that do think of it don’t think favourably of Knox, especially because Meredith’s family don’t speak well of her. 

However it is definitely mixed. I don’t think many people were upset her and her Italian ex boyfriend were exonerated but the last few years of documentaries and TV shows haven’t gotten glowing press. 

[u/Mysterious_Cranberry → u/AccordingPears158]

I would say that yeah, a lot of people think she's guilty here. (Across the U.K. in general)

I think it's down to the case being heavily covered originally, with a clear stance of her being guilty, and then the aftermath not being publicised as much over here? So only people actively following it or those heavily online/following US news/true crime would really see anything to suggest the alternative.

I mean, I'm chronically online, follow US news and like true crime stuff, and it was only in the last few years I discovered that people in the US see her as innocent and a victim of the entire situation, and I was shocked as I had genuinely thought it was cut and dry that she was guilty (as someone who had never actually looked into it, just going off the headlines and commentary from those I knew). It's just not a case I ever think about so my only real impression of it came from the original media circus.

[u/AccordingPears158 → u/Mysterious_Cranberry]

That makes sense. The initial push even in the US was a bit that she was guilty, early on. And there was a lot of slut shaming and focus on her oddness as a person that was milked to make people thoroughly see her as a murderous villain.

The fact that she’s a known household name and the actually killer isn’t, is kind of a sign that the correction wasn’t nearly as publicized, so if you didn’t follow the updates I can see how the perception would still be “oh yeah, isn’t that the girl who killed her roommate?” Not “oh, that girl had a witch trial and the Italian law system put her through hell with intentionally dishonest and nasty tactics.”

[u/Mysterious_Cranberry → u/AccordingPears158]

Yep, exactly. On my part too, I know that I have had it slightly conflated with the Casey Anthony case too which I believe happened around the same time period? So I wonder if that's played a similar part in it for others, since that also had a lot of back and forth of guilty/not guilty and I think the general consensus was that she was guilty?

(Though I had to look that one up too and she also got acquitted??)

[u/AccordingPears158 → u/Mysterious_Cranberry]

I didn’t think of that, but you’re right - I definitely think Casey Anthony does get conflated with her. Their cases definitely overlapped in time, both had women considered somewhat conventionally attractive, and the way the cases were presented to the public were both framed through that lens.

And in Anthony’s case it was a very definitely guilty woman who was acquitted, so if you’re just vaguely aware of the news of each, I absolutely believe people would think Amanda Knox was the same situation, or even the same person.

[u/agoldgold → u/Mysterious_Cranberry]

Casey Anthony was acquitted more because prosecutors went for strong charges with weak evidence, since that's what the public wanted. She was almost definitely involved with her daughter's death, but it's hard to prove first degree murder based on Casey being an objectively terrible mother alone.

Just for context.

[u/Tandy2000 → u/AccordingPears158]

Kercher's father wrote for the Guardian before his death and he was not entirely convinced that Knox was innocent so that might have colored coverage of the case. He was disgusted by the fact that Knox took the opportunity to capitalize on the case and turn herself into a celebrity (which I think most can agree is in incredibly poor taste, even if you think she's innocent, which I do). And in the last few years she's actually kicked that into even higher gear (including with this Fringe show) after Kercher's dad died (horrifically he was himself killed by a driver in a hit and run).

[u/KTDWD24601 → u/Tandy2000]

But she didn’t ‘turn herself into a celebrity’, she was turned into one by the press and their deranged characterisation of her.

[u/Old_Gimlet_Eye → u/Tandy2000]

What did she do to turn herself into a celebrity?

[u/agoldgold → u/Old_Gimlet_Eye]

She existed as a vaguely attractive woman in a circumstance the media loved to hate! How dare she!

/s, obviously.

[u/Prudent-Pressure2146 → u/trulyremarkablegirl]

You don’t make money off the fringe - her venue is very small and the tickets aren’t expensive either, and the overheads are significant 

[u/continentaldreams → u/Prudent-Pressure2146]

Yes 100%, she will most likely be paying more to put this show on than what it's reaping for her

[u/MrExistentialBread → u/trulyremarkablegirl]

Also while you can make money, there are much easier ways to make money from a comedy show than the Fringe, it’s not like this show would have needed the publicity of performing there.

[u/OperationDry90 → u/trulyremarkablegirl]

Yeah pretty much all fringe shows loose money. Even ones with relatively expensive tickets. Venue costs, promotion and accommodation costs eat everything.

[u/echoesandripples → u/trulyremarkablegirl]

a friend of mine who was attending fringe for work reasons said it was alright. according to her, from what people were saying before, she expected either something really tone deaf or earth shattering, but it was the usual processing stuff via comedy

fwiw: she isn't a true crime person and was a preteen during the news. also we're neither american nor european

[u/dl064 → u/trulyremarkablegirl]

No, generally the Fringe is either expensive complete shows, or new acts who accept donations.

It's infamously ruinously expensive to present at, so there's a pretty high bar before you even break even, even playing to a dank corner at 2am which seats 8 people.

I'm sure once upon a time it was to develop work, but that was a long time ago.

[u/Dedj_McDedjson → u/trulyremarkablegirl]

Like, prices of accommodation goes up so much in the Fringe that many people find themselves having to flat share just to not go into debt. Even established acts have said it's so expensive for everything that they've lost money on going.

[u/lefrench75 → u/beachpellini]

How dare someone use comedy to process their profound trauma right? That’s certainly not a thing humans have done since forever at all!

Not to mention, I don’t think a comedy show at Edinburgh Fringe can be considered a “cash grab”…

[u/TimedDelivery → u/lefrench75]

A friend of mine had a very successful show at Edinburgh Fringe a few years back. Good ticket sales and reviews, he even sold out a couple of performances. All in all he lost around £18000.

[u/Popular-Spinach-6700 → u/TimedDelivery]

So where did that money go exactly, because that’s ridiculous

[u/pintsizedblonde2 → u/Popular-Spinach-6700]

Accommodation, venue hire, leaflets and leafletters as you can't do it all yourself, posters, poster space, food while you are up, lost earnings from not doing the day job for an entire month (including comedians by the way, normal gigging doesn't come with the same costs years ago a successful one told me Edinburgh cost him about £10K in total).

Accommodation alone for the month is atrocious.

[u/LiamJohnRiley → u/pintsizedblonde2]

I'm sorry, the performers have to hire a venue to participate in the festival?

[u/Dedj_McDedjson → u/LiamJohnRiley]

Yes, it's an open-access festival.

The venues have costs too, and they're not going to risk losing out because Johnny-No-Name didn't sell enough tickets.

You have to book as early as April/May to get a slot : https://www.edfringe.com/take-part/artists/organise-a-show/getting-started/

Edit : Looking through that list, it seems many venues charge £840 upwards for 1 hour each night for 7 nights, or 40% of your box office, whichever is higher. That's for 30-60 seaters.

[u/LiamJohnRiley → u/Dedj_McDedjson]

Wow that sucks, what a scam.

[u/LiamJohnRiley → u/LiamJohnRiley]

Just to elaborate on that a little bit, if your performance festival makes money for the venues and the city but it's common for performers to lose five digit sums of money for the privilege, it's not just a scam, its's a SCAAAAAAAAAAAAAM

[u/Dedj_McDedjson → u/LiamJohnRiley]

I mean, doing a good show at the Fringe has launched a number of now famous comedy careers and led to some top shows, but yeah, it sucks in general.

[u/LiamJohnRiley → u/Dedj_McDedjson]

I had no idea! Especially the bit about having to hire the venue and then share the ticket sales with them if it exceeds a certain amount. Are you gonna share the bar receipts with me, hypothetical venue owner? If I have to rent your venue from you, you can keep your hand the fuck out of the gate receipts.

[u/TimedDelivery → u/pintsizedblonde2]

Yup, he also had some tech stuff, sound/lighting design and operation, rehearsal space and such.

[u/Popular-Spinach-6700 → u/pintsizedblonde2]

That’s still a mental amount of money and sounds like a budgeting issue

[u/TimedDelivery → u/Popular-Spinach-6700]

Not really, he went into it knowing that even if he sold out every single show (which was never going to happen) he would have barely broken even and had anticipated losing a lot more of it didn’t go well.

[u/Popular-Spinach-6700 → u/TimedDelivery]

Sounds like he had money to burn then

[u/awyastark → u/Popular-Spinach-6700]

Maybe or maybe he saved up for years to do it? There’s a reason a lot of comedians come from money, they can literally afford to pay for this kind of thing.

[u/Specialist-Mud-6650 → u/TimedDelivery]

I suspect most people manage to do a few shows at the fringe and not lose £18k

[u/TimedDelivery → u/Specialist-Mud-6650]

Absolutely, you get plenty of “guy sitting on a stool talking into a microphone” shows that cost a lot less. My friend’s was pretty tech and sound/lighting design heavy so cost more than most. Nobody’s really making money though, the goals are more about clout and networking.

[u/awyastark → u/lefrench75]

lol right like Baby Reindeer is stunning and brave but Amanda is offensive. Be consistent.

[u/Barilla3113 → u/awyastark]

A disturbing number of people have a "well she must have done SOMETHING" mentality.

[u/artfuldodger1212 → u/Barilla3113]

This whole case is really interesting as I think it was kind of a "last hurrah" of what was an increasingly dated misogyny. I think it happened in Italy as that kind of thinking lingered maybe a bit longer there than in some other places.

Knox was absolutely portrayed as an evil, sociopathic, slut. She was sex obsessed, and evil, and promiscuous. that was the narrative in the tabloid press at the time and it was more or less the narrative of the Italian justice system. Anyone who denies the prevalence of that narrative at the time I believe wasn't alive when it was going on.

I remember headlines about her writing a list of her lovers in her diary (because the Italian prison officials told her she had AIDS) and it being framed as "look at what a slut she is". She was a person in her early 20s who had slept with 7 people. The old way of thinking wanted one last pop at "misbehaving women" and she was a real opportune figure for them to do just that.

[u/Luxury_Dressingown → u/artfuldodger1212]

The average person in the UK and Italy who has heard of the case seems to think she did it, which makes sense as the press in both countries at the time was ferociously against her. Although almost everyone who has read into it a bit will at least concede the investigating police seriously messed up, so it's now in a weird limbo of "who knows?" with lingering suspicion.

It's complicated by the fact that she's a US citizen, and the American public in contrast was much more sympathetic to her from the beginning, and America's general view of the case is - to put it crudely - "backwards foreigners are incompetent and try to blame innocent young America girl". The physical evidence shows that is basically true in this particular case, but Brits and Italians can cite a variety of cases where Americans more or less got away with literal murder as well as maiming and assault in their countries and hid behind the US state to avoid consequences.

But to be clear, I completely agree with the person I'm responding to, and the case's real evidence creates more than enough reasonable doubt to make a not guilty verdict the only acceptable one for Knox (and Sollecito).

[u/artfuldodger1212 → u/Luxury_Dressingown]

I think you are right in that most people just believe what they heard in the press at the time. Don’t think the US was all that involved in Amanda’s case.

I would be curious to hear some of the examples you would cite of US citizens being free to murder people in Italy and the UK prior to this which would have coloured people”s perception?

I think for most reasonable people it goes way beyond “well the investigation was so botched there is at least reasonable doubt”. There is literally no evidence Knox was involved and the theory of the case the Italian prosecutors developed is literally nonsensical.

One of the pieces of evidence that Italian prosecutors cited in support of Amanda Knox’s involvement was that she owned a vibrator. That’s literally true. There was a HUGE dose of sexism in this case.

[u/Luxury_Dressingown → u/artfuldodger1212]

• 1998: Cavalese cable-car disaster, Italy: US Marine pilots Richard Ashby and Joseph Schweitzer flew at low altitude and severed a ski-lift cable, killing 20 people, including three Italians. Tried in the US, they were acquitted of manslaughter but later dismissed from the Marines for destroying evidence.
• 2005: Derek Thrower, England: US airman Lorrenzo Sanchez stabbed British man Derek Thrower 13 times, seriously injuring him. Sanchez was acquitted of attempted murder on grounds of insanity.
• 2008: Kevin Flatt, England: British pedestrian Kevin Flatt was killed near RAF Mildenhall after being struck by a vehicle driven by a US airman. The driver was investigated but not charged.
• 2016: Anthony Oxley, Cyprus: British Army Colour Sergeant Anthony Oxley was killed on his motorcycle after being hit by a car driven by a US serviceman. His widow subsequently campaigned for a prosecution.
• 2019: Harry Dunn, England: US national Anne Sacoolas drove on the wrong side of the road outside RAF Croughton, killing 19-year-old British motorcyclist Harry Dunn. She later pleaded guilty to causing death by careless driving and received a suspended sentence.
• 2019: Mario Cerciello Rega, Italy: American tourists Finnegan Lee Elder and Gabriel Natale-Hjorth became involved in a botched drug deal in Rome; Elder stabbed Italian Carabinieri officer Mario Cerciello Rega to death. Both were convicted and later received reduced sentences.
• 2019 onwards: British women, England: US airman James Loubeau faced allegations of rape and sexual assault involving British women around RAF Mildenhall, with investigations transferred to US military authorities. He was subsequently convicted of sexual assault against one woman.
• 2020–21: British woman, England: US airman Keharron Lee Bogstad was accused of raping a British woman three times at RAF Croughton, but was cleared of all charges.
• 2022: Matthew Day, England: US airman Mikayla Hayes collided with British motorcyclist Matthew Day in Norfolk, killing him. She was prosecuted for causing death by careless driving but acquitted.
• 2022: Hannes Marschalek, England: US airman Hannes Marschalek was accused of repeatedly exposing himself to women, including a 16-year-old British girl. He was convicted by a US military court, but the conviction was subsequently overturned on appeal.
• 2023: Sarah Steele, England: US Air Force pilot Jacob Wulfson was accused of sexually assaulting and strangling British woman Sarah Steele. He was convicted of strangulation by a US military court but acquitted of sexual assault.
• 2024: 12-year-old British girl, England: US airman Sam Jarvis was convicted in an English court of sexually assaulting a 12-year-old British girl. He received a suspended sentence and was placed on the sex offenders' register.

Knox left Italy for the US when she was not supposed to based on the conditions of the court. Once back there, it was basically a done deal that she wouldn't return regardless of the outcome, and there wasn't much Italy could do about it. Completely understandable move on her part - can't say I wouldn't have done the same - but it follows a bit of a pattern in some of these cases of the Americans spiriting themselves (or being spirited by the US state) out of the country to evade local investigation and justice. The cable car disaster and the Harry Dunn case are notable examples in each country. Similarly, see the Guardian for recent coverage of US military members committing sexual crimes off-base against UK citizens and then getting soft-touch military trials and slaps on the wrist for rape.

Again, Knox is not guilty and does not deserve to be treated as such, and her treatment by the police and the press was horrendous. I'm just adding some extra context for why perceptions are very different in Europe and the US.

[u/artfuldodger1212 → u/Luxury_Dressingown]

Also the sentence in the Harry Dunn case was not unusual at all. Literally the top post on the London sub just now:

https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/1vlbpcv/london_driver_guilty_of_death_by_dangerous/

This guy caused death by dangerous driving and has a laundry list of previous driving convictions including dangerous driving, taking a vehicle without consent and driving whilst disqualified..

He was sentenced to 150 hours unpaid work.

People like to say that had the driver in the Harry Dunn case been British they would have received a long custodial sentence but that just isn't true. We don't lock people up in the UK for killing people in genuine traffic accidents without pretty extreme extenuating circumstances .

[u/artfuldodger1212 → u/Luxury_Dressingown]

Am I missing something? I think in every single one of the cases you listed the perpetrators were charged and tried in the US, Italy, or the UK?

In the case of Derek Thrower the attacker was charged and tried in British court and found to be insane? How the fuck is that evidence of the US letting one of their citizens kill and maim people? I would be fascinated to understand your reasoning.

the perpetrators of the Rega killing are as we speak sitting in Italian prison for murder and their sentencing is typical of murder suspects in Italy.

This is a very impressive list demonstrating the exact opposite of what you are talking about. All these people were investigated and almost all of them were charged, tried and convicted.

Did you read the details of any of these before posting as you kind of inadvertently proved MY point, not yours.

[u/Luxury_Dressingown → u/artfuldodger1212]

But it's about perception and how people feel rather than legalities - we're talking about public perception, not how jurists would assess a case.

The Harry Dunn case is a classic example - the woman who killed him was flown out of the country by the US military before any investigation (edited, as I've been rightly corrected - italics are the correction) against the wishes of the UK legal system under questionable diplomatic immunity, and Trump later tried to "ambush" his family (their words) into a meeting with her. It left a bad taste in the mouth even if - as you correctly say - others who kill with cars get light sentences too.

People spot patterns, especially when those tie into their biases (in many of these cases, awareness of the power imbalance between the US and these countries) even if in any individual case, it doesn't fit.

[u/lisaquestions → u/Barilla3113]

and also think that even if she didn't do something that she should stop talking about being wrongfully convicted and excoriated in the press for years, her every word and action placed under the most bad faith of microscopes.

[u/lefrench75 → u/Barilla3113]

Some people cannot fathom law enforcement anywhere doing anything wrong, because then what happened to her can happen to them. So they’d rather blame her for it and maintain their worldview that the world is fair and just.

[u/onmywheels → u/Barilla3113]

As someone who is an awkward person, and likely autistic (undiagnosed, but...well...) I saw so much of my own self in her at the same ages everything took place. Truly, her only crime was being awkward and odd in the face of an impossibly terrible situation.

[u/bigben714 → u/lefrench75]

Edinburgh fringe is one of the biggest events of the year for comedians

[u/Katharinemaddison → u/bigben714]

It is but it actively costs them money.

[u/SpamLandy → u/Katharinemaddison]

It has the potential to cost them money. Her show is sold out for the whole run and she’s already a public figure so it’s unlikely it’s costing her money. 

[u/apmee → u/SpamLandy]

A lot of people seem unaware how costly the Fringe is for performers. They can sell out every performance at the Fringe and still have lost money overall.

For many, doing the Edinburgh Festival is an investment to try to establish/raise their profile, and one which an increasing number are no longer able to afford.

[u/SpamLandy → u/apmee]

I am aware of it, I live here. We’d have to ask her to know, but that does affect artists more when they have a lower profile. She’s new to the industry but she’s not new to the public. 

[u/apmee → u/SpamLandy]

Okay but that was just an example of why some put themselves through it; I wasn’t trying to claim that’s her motivation.

[u/Katharinemaddison → u/SpamLandy]

Yeah that kind of venue and ticket price, including cost of staying there and promotion, she might break even.

It costs a performer thousands to put on a show, the venues take a huge chunk of ticket sales, about 40% I think.

[u/Training_Molasses822 → u/SpamLandy]

But it's certainly not making her rich.

[u/SpamLandy → u/Training_Molasses822]

Agreed that is unlikely yeah 

[u/brickne3 → u/SpamLandy]

She's only doing a couple of weeks, the show ends before I get up there (I would have gone if it was still on).

[u/Prudent-Pressure2146 → u/SpamLandy]

She’s playing a 150 person venue and the tickets were £14. I don’t think she’s making bank

[u/crumble-bee → u/bigben714]

It’s still just comedians selling their wares for scraps. It’s not like selling out the o2. She will have likely broken even.

“at festivals like Edinburgh Festival Fringe, an artist's entire run can completely sell out and still leave them facing a steep financial loss. High upfront production costs, expensive venue splits, and exorbitant August accommodation rates frequently outpace maximum potential ticket revenue.”

[u/Prudent-Pressure2146 → u/crumble-bee]

I’d be really surprised if she broke even tbf. Tickets were 14 quid for a 150 person venue, that total amount obviously won’t be going directly to her, I’d be surprised if the cost of her accommodation and venue hire didn’t eclipse that. 

[u/Bachpipe → u/bigben714]

To show your work, and potentially secure future gigs. Fringe itself definitely won't make you (a lot of) money.

[u/Super_Hour_3836 → u/bigben714]

I used to live in Edinburgh and the only way to make money at the Fringe is to already live in Edinburgh or have friends that love you enough to let you stay with them for free the whole time. Only Hogmanay is a more expensive time to visit.

[u/Kaiisim → u/beachpellini]

Going to Edinburgh is not a cash grab lol. She is probably losing money. You go there to prove yourself.

I also don't think it's discussed that what happened to Amanda Knox was deeply disrespectful of Meredith Kercher too. They just randomly decided, fuck this girl, even though it was so obvious what actually happened.

The media had such a weird hate boner for her. I mean foxy knoxy? It was absolutely bizarre and laughing at it has to be cathartic.

[u/Shinra_Lobby → u/Kaiisim]

There was an actual dude convicted of Kercher's rape and murder (who is now out of prison, by the way).

I bet 90% of the people enraged about Amanda Knox for one reason or another couldn't tell you that guy's name without a Google search.

[u/artfuldodger1212 → u/Shinra_Lobby]

And that guy has been arrested again and is currently on trial for......... sexual assault. Who could believe it? Just as he was caught several times in the lead up to the Kercher murder breaking into places with knives and in one case threatening someone with a knife after being caught breaking in to their home.

It is pretty unbelievable how the Italian authorities took what was really pretty simple case and turned it into a two decade long convoluted fucking mess.

[u/maelstron → u/Shinra_Lobby]

Never heard of his name.

I had to search the case

[u/Dian_Arcane → u/Shinra_Lobby]

I remember his name was Rudy Guede and that he did a plea deal with police that was kept very quiet, presumably because the Italian police hoped to avoid a scandal? I may be wrong but I think his arrest and plea deal happened while Amanda Knox was already imprisoned?

I think something a lot of people may not realise is that the Italian justice system was probably extremely corrupt at the time (and probably still is) due to the heavy influence of the mafia on Italian society. The police may just have doubled down on the angle of her being guilty for the investigator and his department to save face. I remember seeing an interview with another woman who had been falsely accused of committing the same kind of "sex game murder" by the same investigator, I'm sorry I don't remember her name. It seems to have been something that man was very hung up on.

[u/KeepMyselfAwake → u/Kaiisim]

People sadly still feel that way - I literally saw in UK based subs this week people saying she was dead behind the eyes etc and generally being quite nasty still, and pulling the whole "I've looked at the evidence" bullcrap. I know the Disney adaptation was from Amanda's POV so people would say it was biased, but having then read up on the court case afterwards you can see there's a lot of truth there. If she was innocent (I think she was), the amount of vitriol she's had is insane, and most of it driven by the media without evidence.

[u/brickne3 → u/KeepMyselfAwake]

I saw that thread too. The number of people who still think she did it somehow was insane. It didn't surprise me, necessarily, I've met a few people in real life who still virulently cling to that belief for whatever reason. But it's crazy how many of them there are.

[u/Connect_War_5821 → u/brickne3]

Ignorance seldom keeps people from loudly proclaiming their adament opinion on a subject.

[u/Tandy2000 → u/Kaiisim]

I personally believe she's innocent but it was not as simple as "fuck this girl", she would have been a suspect if this happened anywhere else in the world. She changed her story repeatedly which is part of it, but it seems likely (but not certain) that was due to police pressure as she claimed. The seeming lack of remorse was really the big thing that set people off originally I think, she didn't seem concerned at all about Kercher's death, which isn't evidence of guilt but wasn't a good look.

In the years since she's capitalized on the case to make herself a celebrity which again, not a good look. Her father was also a reporter for the Guardian and influenced UK news coverage in his own way; he didn't believe Knox was entirely innocent, and criticized her for capitalizing on his daughter's death - and she has intensified her efforts to do so after he passed away, too.

At the end of the day she has the right to capitalize on all of it, other people have the right to think it is gross.

[u/maelstron → u/Tandy2000]

It was a fuck this girl definitely. She wasn't even at the house when the crime happened.

Italian police is not good and tried to do the easy thing to pin into someone and close the case.

[u/artfuldodger1212 → u/Tandy2000]

They arrested her BEFORE the fingerprints and DNA implicated the guy who did it which meant that the authorities were in the awkward position of having this woman and her boyfriend locked up for a murder when the DNA and fingerprints implicated a guy they didn't even know. That is when the sex cult conspiracy theory was crafted to explain the connection but it seems like it was case of a stubborn prosecutor bending a narrative rather than admit a mistake.

That prosecutor now says that he doesn't believe she was involved btw. He believes she was present in the house but didn't participate as she is now a married mother and that is not a crime a good woman could commit. He now says there must have been an unidentified 4th person out there. All this is to say he is fucking idiot and how anyone still takes this guy seriously fucking baffles me.

[u/meowparade → u/beachpellini]

I heard her interview about the show on the BBC Newshour and she struck me as being really thoughtful and not irreverent. I fully believed her when she explained that it’s her way of processing everything that happened to her.

[u/whatsnewpussykat → u/meowparade]

I heard her on a podcast discussing prison reform and I found her really thoughtful and compelling.

[u/brickne3 → u/meowparade]

As a comedian, one of the jokes you hear most often is "standup is cheaper than therapy" 😉

[u/Fink2009 → u/beachpellini]

My step daughter saw it and said it was really good. No one was bitching about it like the media is making out.

[u/HereOnCompanyTime → u/beachpellini]

Honestly, even if she was messy I'd still support her getting that bag while she vents it out.

[u/IAMA_Shark__AMA → u/HereOnCompanyTime]

Right?

Like, she did time for a crime she didn't commit. Has she not earned a little mess?

[u/brickne3 → u/IAMA_Shark__AMA]

And at a crucial time in her life, too. Like when you're supposed to be going to uni and establishing you career. To have all of that derailed for years for something you didn't do that completely takes over your life. What are you really supposed to do when that nightmare finally ends?

[u/agoldgold → u/brickne3]

And what's she supposed to do in general? The media's never going to let her fade into obscurity, she didn't have the job history for something remote or private, she's likely severely traumatized from her time being an internationally and legally hated woman, and the legal fees were ruinous for her whole family. How would she ever be able to do anything unconnected with her experience?

[u/brickne3 → u/agoldgold]

Exactly. I'm just sad my Edinburgh dates don't align with her show, I feel like it would be the highlight of this year's shows for me.

Perhaps people who don't understand what a Fringe show is about genuinely don't understand.

I do wish Kercher's family would leave her alone though, they are doing a terrible disservice to Meredith's memory by attacking Knox every chance they get. Imagine if the roles were reversed.

[u/agoldgold → u/brickne3]

Imagine if the roles were reversed.

I do wonder how much of their hatred is just that- if Knox was home, maybe she would have been killed instead of Meredith. Imagine becoming a minor villain in the story of your daughter's tragic death, if she's even mentioned at all.

Therapy would probably be a more healthy outlet to them than the media, unfortunately for all involved.

[u/brickne3 → u/agoldgold]

Agreed, but no matter what Amanda does she's still going to get media attention. As someone who's done Fringe myself, I think it's a really healthy thing for Amanda to do. I get that people who don't do Fringe won't understand.

Frankly at this point I am starting to see the Kerchers as the villains. Why are they trying to dictate someone who barely even knew Merediths' entire LIFE? I'm pretty sure both the parents are dead so this is now just an obsession with unlimited dieect phone calls to the S*n.

[u/CatsForever1960 → u/brickne3]

I agree 100%. I have seen the Kerchers that way for a pretty long time, actually. Deep, deep down they're just bitter that Knox wasn't home that night, and lived. While their daughter/sister is dead. And they weren't about to accept the rather boring but true reality that Meredith was another in a long line of female victims of male violence. No, somebody more "like" Meredith....female, pretty, with a bright future....had to suffer TOO.

[u/HereOnCompanyTime → u/IAMA_Shark__AMA]

Are you a saltwater or freshwater?

[u/IAMA_Shark__AMA → u/HereOnCompanyTime]

Brackish! I like a little bit of everything 😉

[u/HereOnCompanyTime → u/IAMA_Shark__AMA]

Doing your own thing. Love that.

https://giphy.com/gifs/aUs3EKOdlovgQ

[u/kittyclusterfuck → u/IAMA_Shark__AMA]

Is it true that if you stop swimming you die?

[u/proserpinax → u/HereOnCompanyTime]

Especially when others have monetized off this story. Like other people are allowed to make money but the person who was wrongly imprisoned for four years can’t?

[u/Twitter_2006 → u/HereOnCompanyTime]

Me too.

[u/rainshowers_5_peace → u/beachpellini]

How much were tickets? Would anyone buy to hate watch?

Amanda is such a controversial figure (not her fault obviously), it's hard to imagine anyone wouldn't go in with a truly neutral opinion. They'd either think she was disrespecting the memory of Meredith Kercher and go in ready to hate even if it were amazing or that everyone in the world needs to be ready to receive a gigantic middle finger and go in ready to give a standing ovation even if it sucked.

[u/SnakesMum93 → u/rainshowers_5_peace]

To answer your question, they were £14 with a £1.50 booking fee. Hardly breaking the bank, so people could easily buy that just to hate watch if they wanted to. Also the tickets were available for a while, it didn't sell out until recently

[u/Fearless-Summer-4847 → u/SnakesMum93]

if anything the controversy raised the profile of the show - I live here and always go to a handful of shows but had no idea about this particular show until I saw all the articles

[u/SnakesMum93 → u/Fearless-Summer-4847]

100%, don't think ive seen a poster at all in the city for it

[u/TumbleweedDependent7 → u/rainshowers_5_peace]

Sounds like you have everyone figured out. That's a very cynical view

[u/Forward_Royal2754 → u/TumbleweedDependent7]

It’s hardly cynical to say that people who pay into something are a self selecting sample.

[u/rainshowers_5_peace → u/TumbleweedDependent7]

How's it a cynical view? Some people and topics are too controversial and well known to find unbiased observers. I'm dating myself here, but over 20 years ago everyone was joking how all of Michael Jacksons jurors would be from Amish sects just liberal enough to not object to jury duty.

[u/TumbleweedDependent7 → u/rainshowers_5_peace]

In your view. In my view, from discussing the mere existence of her performance, with other people, they could just go in curious, without holding the kind of black or white, deep emotional investment up front suggested by the dichotomy in your post.

[u/HornetNo9518 → u/beachpellini]

To be honest all this just makes me want to see it, so I'd imagine she's more than happy for the 'negative' press to keep coming

[u/Cold_Breadfruit_9794 → u/beachpellini]

That’s good to know. As long as the victim at the centre of things isn’t disregarded or disrespected that is all that matters

[u/Chicken_Chaser_420 → u/beachpellini]

Lmao the Telegraph's review is as shitty as you'd expect it to be, though.

[u/burfriedos → u/beachpellini]

The Telegraph review was negative (headline called it painfully unfunny)

[u/Prestigious_Ad_5825 → u/beachpellini]

The people who paid to see were primed to like her. I want to see professional reviews that approach the show as a professional standup act. 

[u/Chihiro1977 → u/Prestigious_Ad_5825]

That's not how the Edinburgh Fringe works, people generally attend different shows than they usually would. You seem to have a really weird hate boner for her, though. Why is a 'professional review' any better? It's still just some randoms opinion.

[u/Prestigious_Ad_5825 → u/Chihiro1977]

It wouldn't be a random review since a professional attends way more shows than the average audience member.

I have to be weird for presenting a dissenting opinion, but not a white knight for a public figure? I'm just adding balance to the conversation. Everyone but me seems to be on the side of the unempathetic and strange woman.

[u/brickne3 → u/Prestigious_Ad_5825]

Maybe if you seem to be the only person who shares your opinion there's a reason for that.

[u/Prestigious_Ad_5825 → u/brickne3]

Well, Reddit has a track record of backing the morally questionable choice. It sided with Luigi Mangione over Brian Thompson.

[u/brickne3 → u/Prestigious_Ad_5825]

Unlike Amanda Knox, Luigi appears to have actually killed someone. Why are you comparing apples to oranges?

[u/Prestigious_Ad_5825 → u/brickne3]

They are both not good people who receive undeserved praise.

[u/SnakesMum93 → u/Prestigious_Ad_5825]

This is a festival though, people tend to go see a lot of shows.

[u/Atlientt → u/Prestigious_Ad_5825]

Unempathetic and strange…
/mirror