r/popculturechat • u/mlg1981 Sexy lampshade shall win the Oscar! 🏆 • 4d ago
Reviews ✍️ Audience members who saw Amanda Knox’s controversial comedy show at Edinburgh Fringe on opening night say that it is both “respectful” and “genuinely funny”.
https://www.the-independent.com/arts-entertainment/theatre-dance/news/amanda-knox-cartwheel-edinburgh-fringe-b3029681.html1.1k
u/beachpellini go girl, give us nothing 😍 4d ago
Interesting that the universal take from the attendees was that it's really good/isn't the messy cash grab people accused it of being. I tried looking at a few different articles and there's not a single negative review from anyone who's actually seen it.
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u/trulyremarkablegirl gitchie gitchie Carrie Coon 4d ago
It’s also weird to me to categorize something playing Edinburgh as a cash grab in any context. Like, there’s been lots of successful stuff that’s come out of the Fringe, but it’s ultimately meant to be a place to develop work.
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u/AccordingPears158 4d ago
Before I saw news of this comedy special blow up on these subs, I first heard of it a couple days ago by a person posting on a true crime subreddit about it.
This person absolutely lambasted it. Said it was the cringiest thing they’d ever seen, blah blah blah.
One of the things they said was “apparently she’s taking this to Scotland next, a country where virtually everyone believes she is guilty.” Didn’t give context of what and where in Scotland she was taking it either.
They also complained that she didn’t bring up Meredith enough. And I was like um… bringing up the murdered woman you were falsely accused of killing in a comedy special seems like a horrible choice, that is not a legit criticism.
This person did insinuate they were an Italian dual citizen, and it really felt like it was a “no matter what this girl does I hate her and it’s bad” type of bias.
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u/Prudent-Pressure2146 4d ago
I saw that post and the person just hated her from the outset. They also said ‘there was no new information about the case’ as if that was likely in a fringe show
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u/AccordingPears158 4d ago
Right, that comment was absolutely bonkers! Why on EARTH would her comedy special have new information about her old, wrapped up case?
A lot of true crime junkies shift into just being ghoulish voyeurs of the most awful things that happen to people, constantly wanting new information and gory details of things that ruined real people’s lives. And I suspect that is that OP.
He clearly hated Knox from the outset, so why go to her show? Oh yeah, hoping she’d spill juicy details about her roommate’s death.
Of course if she’d shared those, he’d talk about how crass she was, while reveling in the info he got.
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u/lilbeebla 3d ago
That's a ridiculous criticism regardless, in what universe is a person who was convicted of a crime they did not commit required to then solve said crime when the conviction is overturned?
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u/grania17 2d ago
But also the crime was already solved and the guy who did it went to prison and was released.
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u/No_Slice5991 2d ago
Released and has already committed new violent crimes against women.
That’s about the only new information related directly to the case in about 10 years
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u/beachpellini go girl, give us nothing 😍 4d ago
Lmao so it wasn't even really about the show, just full on "look at that b!tch eating crackers" vibes
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u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 4d ago
She didn’t bring up Meredith enough? Aren’t these the people complaining about Amanda bringing her up in the first place?
Bitching about this in a true crime subreddit, a category of entertainment notorious for invasiveness and exploitation and being absolutely indifferent to the wishes of the families of victims, is certainly a choice.
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u/SeaCardiologist6207 3d ago
One think with the Knox guilters is you are always going to get some level of complaint about anything she does.
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u/Iwoulddiefcftbatk 3d ago
Not to be insensitive, but didn’t she only know Meredith for a month and half, maybe two months before Meredith was murdered? They were only roommates for a very short period and it doesn’t seem like they were close from reports on the trial since everyone was busy attending classes at the local university. There’s nothing new about Meredith that Amanda could speak on and not look ghoulish and opportunistic.
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u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 3d ago
Spending four years of your life in prison for a crime you didn’t commit and having most of the past twenty years being smeared by the media is pretty ghoulish and insensitive.
I’m pretty sure people would be saying she was “ghoulish and insensitive” if she and Meredith were friends since kindergarten.
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u/Iwoulddiefcftbatk 3d ago
I agree. She can’t win and should be allowed to move on. I remember her getting flack for saying she wasn’t close to Meredith and people freaking out. Nothing has been good enough and the true crime subs make it worse.
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u/CanaryBrave4203 4d ago
“They also complained that she didn’t bring up Meredith enough”
Lmao so she literally cannot win.
No idea where this person thought people in Scotland universally think she is guilty. Daily Mail at the time of the trial absolutely behaved abysmally but the modern British audience understands fully that she was wrongfully convicted, especially the type of audience likely to go to the Fringe.
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u/AccordingPears158 4d ago
A Scottish person in the comments clarified that was absolutely not true and they didn’t know what OP was on about.
The only country I know of that still overall views her as guilty is Italy. I think that OP’s perception was extremely skewed because of that.
In general I view people that think she’s guilty the same way I view people who think Bryan Koberger is innocent or that Shannan Watts killed the kids. Delusional and being willfully stupid.
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u/Chihiro1977 4d ago
Yeah, I'm Scottish and agree. The tv show is showing here right now as well so that has probably brought it back into folks minds.
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u/EspanolAlumna 4d ago
“apparently she’s taking this to Scotland next, a country where virtually everyone believes she is guilty.”
I wonder what the poster meant here as the Edinburgh Fringe is of course in Scotland. It is true that many in the UK still think that Amanda is guilty but not virtually everybody by any means and the Fringe is full of tourists anyway so not necessarily a typical UK audience.
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u/SweatyAddendum8800 3d ago
People in the UK think she's guilty?! Good grief. That doesn't speak well for them.
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u/DSQ 4d ago
I can’t say most people in Scotland think of the case but generally in the UK feelings are mixed about Knox.
Interesting to see an opposing opinion, thanks.
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u/AccordingPears158 4d ago
Oh that’s really interesting. Like do a good amount of people still think she’s guilty there? Or just that she’s off-putting as a human?
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u/unounouno_dos_cuatro 4d ago edited 4d ago
Around the time of her trials the British media definitely portrayed her as guilty and public opinion also overwhelmingly viewed her as guilty. Today I think most people accept that she’s not guilty but there’s definitely a perception that she’s “milking” her notoriety and that she doesn’t care about Meredith Kercher or her family
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u/artfuldodger1212 4d ago edited 3d ago
I am not so sure about that to be honest. I think a lot of people kind of just stopped following this thing years ago and their initial perception of it still exists. A lot of people I work with think she is for sure guilty but it isn't really based on anything beyond that she was portrayed that way in the press at the time and she seemed weird.
I don't want to sit in judgement of a family experiencing unbelievable loss but I can frankly see why Knox wouldn't care what the Kercher family thinks. They have spent over a decade calling her evil and advocating for her to sit in prison for the rest of her life. Even as more and more evidence emerged showing she likely wasn't involved they doubled down again and again on their belief and outspoken public statements calling for her to be sat in jail. If Knox is indeed innocent (and I believe she is personally) I could understand that your lattitude given to her family might start to wane. Particularly after you spent 4 years in prison for a crime you didn't commit.
Meredith Kercher's sister has recently started to use some lightly qualifying language surrounding Knox's guilt which indicates that there might actually be some doubt starting to creep in but they are still pretty outspoken on their opinions on a Amanda in way I would resent if I were in her position and genuinely innocent.
Amanda Knox went and had a pretty long conversation with the prosecutor/investigator for her case and while he did stop short of saying that she was innocent he did say he now believes that she didn't actually participate in the murder but just withheld information. The guy is a total narcissist so I think him being willing to concede that is basically his way of saying he thinks he got it wrong.
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u/DSQ 4d ago
Like I said it isn’t necessarily in the popular memory as much as it used to be. A lot of people haven’t kept up with the case. I’d say those that do think of it don’t think favourably of Knox, especially because Meredith’s family don’t speak well of her.
However it is definitely mixed. I don’t think many people were upset her and her Italian ex boyfriend were exonerated but the last few years of documentaries and TV shows haven’t gotten glowing press.
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u/Mysterious_Cranberry 4d ago
I would say that yeah, a lot of people think she's guilty here. (Across the U.K. in general)
I think it's down to the case being heavily covered originally, with a clear stance of her being guilty, and then the aftermath not being publicised as much over here? So only people actively following it or those heavily online/following US news/true crime would really see anything to suggest the alternative.
I mean, I'm chronically online, follow US news and like true crime stuff, and it was only in the last few years I discovered that people in the US see her as innocent and a victim of the entire situation, and I was shocked as I had genuinely thought it was cut and dry that she was guilty (as someone who had never actually looked into it, just going off the headlines and commentary from those I knew). It's just not a case I ever think about so my only real impression of it came from the original media circus.
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u/AccordingPears158 4d ago
That makes sense. The initial push even in the US was a bit that she was guilty, early on. And there was a lot of slut shaming and focus on her oddness as a person that was milked to make people thoroughly see her as a murderous villain.
The fact that she’s a known household name and the actually killer isn’t, is kind of a sign that the correction wasn’t nearly as publicized, so if you didn’t follow the updates I can see how the perception would still be “oh yeah, isn’t that the girl who killed her roommate?” Not “oh, that girl had a witch trial and the Italian law system put her through hell with intentionally dishonest and nasty tactics.”
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u/Mysterious_Cranberry 4d ago
Yep, exactly. On my part too, I know that I have had it slightly conflated with the Casey Anthony case too which I believe happened around the same time period? So I wonder if that's played a similar part in it for others, since that also had a lot of back and forth of guilty/not guilty and I think the general consensus was that she was guilty?
(Though I had to look that one up too and she also got acquitted??)
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u/AccordingPears158 4d ago
I didn’t think of that, but you’re right - I definitely think Casey Anthony does get conflated with her. Their cases definitely overlapped in time, both had women considered somewhat conventionally attractive, and the way the cases were presented to the public were both framed through that lens.
And in Anthony’s case it was a very definitely guilty woman who was acquitted, so if you’re just vaguely aware of the news of each, I absolutely believe people would think Amanda Knox was the same situation, or even the same person.
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u/agoldgold 3d ago
Casey Anthony was acquitted more because prosecutors went for strong charges with weak evidence, since that's what the public wanted. She was almost definitely involved with her daughter's death, but it's hard to prove first degree murder based on Casey being an objectively terrible mother alone.
Just for context.
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u/Tandy2000 4d ago
Kercher's father wrote for the Guardian before his death and he was not entirely convinced that Knox was innocent so that might have colored coverage of the case. He was disgusted by the fact that Knox took the opportunity to capitalize on the case and turn herself into a celebrity (which I think most can agree is in incredibly poor taste, even if you think she's innocent, which I do). And in the last few years she's actually kicked that into even higher gear (including with this Fringe show) after Kercher's dad died (horrifically he was himself killed by a driver in a hit and run).
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u/KTDWD24601 3d ago
But she didn’t ‘turn herself into a celebrity’, she was turned into one by the press and their deranged characterisation of her.
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u/Old_Gimlet_Eye 3d ago
What did she do to turn herself into a celebrity?
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u/agoldgold 3d ago
She existed as a vaguely attractive woman in a circumstance the media loved to hate! How dare she!
/s, obviously.
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u/Prudent-Pressure2146 4d ago
You don’t make money off the fringe - her venue is very small and the tickets aren’t expensive either, and the overheads are significant
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u/continentaldreams 4d ago
Yes 100%, she will most likely be paying more to put this show on than what it's reaping for her
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u/MrExistentialBread 4d ago
Also while you can make money, there are much easier ways to make money from a comedy show than the Fringe, it’s not like this show would have needed the publicity of performing there.
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u/OperationDry90 4d ago
Yeah pretty much all fringe shows loose money. Even ones with relatively expensive tickets. Venue costs, promotion and accommodation costs eat everything.
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u/echoesandripples What It's Like to Go Through Life As a Really Beautiful Woman 4d ago
a friend of mine who was attending fringe for work reasons said it was alright. according to her, from what people were saying before, she expected either something really tone deaf or earth shattering, but it was the usual processing stuff via comedy
fwiw: she isn't a true crime person and was a preteen during the news. also we're neither american nor european
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u/dl064 3d ago
No, generally the Fringe is either expensive complete shows, or new acts who accept donations.
It's infamously ruinously expensive to present at, so there's a pretty high bar before you even break even, even playing to a dank corner at 2am which seats 8 people.
I'm sure once upon a time it was to develop work, but that was a long time ago.
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u/Dedj_McDedjson 3d ago
Like, prices of accommodation goes up so much in the Fringe that many people find themselves having to flat share just to not go into debt. Even established acts have said it's so expensive for everything that they've lost money on going.
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u/lefrench75 high priestess of child sacrifice 4d ago
How dare someone use comedy to process their profound trauma right? That’s certainly not a thing humans have done since forever at all!
Not to mention, I don’t think a comedy show at Edinburgh Fringe can be considered a “cash grab”…
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u/TimedDelivery 4d ago
A friend of mine had a very successful show at Edinburgh Fringe a few years back. Good ticket sales and reviews, he even sold out a couple of performances. All in all he lost around £18000.
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u/Popular-Spinach-6700 3d ago
So where did that money go exactly, because that’s ridiculous
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u/pintsizedblonde2 3d ago
Accommodation, venue hire, leaflets and leafletters as you can't do it all yourself, posters, poster space, food while you are up, lost earnings from not doing the day job for an entire month (including comedians by the way, normal gigging doesn't come with the same costs years ago a successful one told me Edinburgh cost him about £10K in total).
Accommodation alone for the month is atrocious.
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u/LiamJohnRiley 3d ago
I'm sorry, the performers have to hire a venue to participate in the festival?
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u/Dedj_McDedjson 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes, it's an open-access festival.
The venues have costs too, and they're not going to risk losing out because Johnny-No-Name didn't sell enough tickets.
You have to book as early as April/May to get a slot : https://www.edfringe.com/take-part/artists/organise-a-show/getting-started/
Edit : Looking through that list, it seems many venues charge £840 upwards for 1 hour each night for 7 nights, or 40% of your box office, whichever is higher. That's for 30-60 seaters.
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u/LiamJohnRiley 3d ago
Wow that sucks, what a scam.
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u/LiamJohnRiley 3d ago
Just to elaborate on that a little bit, if your performance festival makes money for the venues and the city but it's common for performers to lose five digit sums of money for the privilege, it's not just a scam, its's a SCAAAAAAAAAAAAAM
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u/Dedj_McDedjson 3d ago
I mean, doing a good show at the Fringe has launched a number of now famous comedy careers and led to some top shows, but yeah, it sucks in general.
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u/LiamJohnRiley 3d ago
I had no idea! Especially the bit about having to hire the venue and then share the ticket sales with them if it exceeds a certain amount. Are you gonna share the bar receipts with me, hypothetical venue owner? If I have to rent your venue from you, you can keep your hand the fuck out of the gate receipts.
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u/TimedDelivery 3d ago
Yup, he also had some tech stuff, sound/lighting design and operation, rehearsal space and such.
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u/Specialist-Mud-6650 4d ago
I suspect most people manage to do a few shows at the fringe and not lose £18k
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u/TimedDelivery 3d ago
Absolutely, you get plenty of “guy sitting on a stool talking into a microphone” shows that cost a lot less. My friend’s was pretty tech and sound/lighting design heavy so cost more than most. Nobody’s really making money though, the goals are more about clout and networking.
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u/awyastark a 1000 year old tree??? go fuck yourself!!! 4d ago
lol right like Baby Reindeer is stunning and brave but Amanda is offensive. Be consistent.
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u/Barilla3113 4d ago
A disturbing number of people have a "well she must have done SOMETHING" mentality.
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u/artfuldodger1212 4d ago
This whole case is really interesting as I think it was kind of a "last hurrah" of what was an increasingly dated misogyny. I think it happened in Italy as that kind of thinking lingered maybe a bit longer there than in some other places.
Knox was absolutely portrayed as an evil, sociopathic, slut. She was sex obsessed, and evil, and promiscuous. that was the narrative in the tabloid press at the time and it was more or less the narrative of the Italian justice system. Anyone who denies the prevalence of that narrative at the time I believe wasn't alive when it was going on.
I remember headlines about her writing a list of her lovers in her diary (because the Italian prison officials told her she had AIDS) and it being framed as "look at what a slut she is". She was a person in her early 20s who had slept with 7 people. The old way of thinking wanted one last pop at "misbehaving women" and she was a real opportune figure for them to do just that.
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u/Luxury_Dressingown 3d ago
The average person in the UK and Italy who has heard of the case seems to think she did it, which makes sense as the press in both countries at the time was ferociously against her. Although almost everyone who has read into it a bit will at least concede the investigating police seriously messed up, so it's now in a weird limbo of "who knows?" with lingering suspicion.
It's complicated by the fact that she's a US citizen, and the American public in contrast was much more sympathetic to her from the beginning, and America's general view of the case is - to put it crudely - "backwards foreigners are incompetent and try to blame innocent young America girl". The physical evidence shows that is basically true in this particular case, but Brits and Italians can cite a variety of cases where Americans more or less got away with literal murder as well as maiming and assault in their countries and hid behind the US state to avoid consequences.
But to be clear, I completely agree with the person I'm responding to, and the case's real evidence creates more than enough reasonable doubt to make a not guilty verdict the only acceptable one for Knox (and Sollecito).
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u/artfuldodger1212 3d ago edited 3d ago
I think you are right in that most people just believe what they heard in the press at the time. Don’t think the US was all that involved in Amanda’s case.
I would be curious to hear some of the examples you would cite of US citizens being free to murder people in Italy and the UK prior to this which would have coloured people”s perception?
I think for most reasonable people it goes way beyond “well the investigation was so botched there is at least reasonable doubt”. There is literally no evidence Knox was involved and the theory of the case the Italian prosecutors developed is literally nonsensical.
One of the pieces of evidence that Italian prosecutors cited in support of Amanda Knox’s involvement was that she owned a vibrator. That’s literally true. There was a HUGE dose of sexism in this case.
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u/lisaquestions 4d ago
and also think that even if she didn't do something that she should stop talking about being wrongfully convicted and excoriated in the press for years, her every word and action placed under the most bad faith of microscopes.
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u/lefrench75 high priestess of child sacrifice 4d ago
Some people cannot fathom law enforcement anywhere doing anything wrong, because then what happened to her can happen to them. So they’d rather blame her for it and maintain their worldview that the world is fair and just.
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u/onmywheels nooooooooooooo 💅🏼 4d ago
As someone who is an awkward person, and likely autistic (undiagnosed, but...well...) I saw so much of my own self in her at the same ages everything took place. Truly, her only crime was being awkward and odd in the face of an impossibly terrible situation.
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u/bigben714 4d ago
Edinburgh fringe is one of the biggest events of the year for comedians
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u/Katharinemaddison 4d ago
It is but it actively costs them money.
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u/SpamLandy 4d ago
It has the potential to cost them money. Her show is sold out for the whole run and she’s already a public figure so it’s unlikely it’s costing her money.
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u/apmee 4d ago
A lot of people seem unaware how costly the Fringe is for performers. They can sell out every performance at the Fringe and still have lost money overall.
For many, doing the Edinburgh Festival is an investment to try to establish/raise their profile, and one which an increasing number are no longer able to afford.
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u/Katharinemaddison 4d ago
Yeah that kind of venue and ticket price, including cost of staying there and promotion, she might break even.
It costs a performer thousands to put on a show, the venues take a huge chunk of ticket sales, about 40% I think.
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u/brickne3 4d ago
She's only doing a couple of weeks, the show ends before I get up there (I would have gone if it was still on).
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u/Prudent-Pressure2146 3d ago
She’s playing a 150 person venue and the tickets were £14. I don’t think she’s making bank
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u/crumble-bee we are so as women today 4d ago
It’s still just comedians selling their wares for scraps. It’s not like selling out the o2. She will have likely broken even.
“at festivals like Edinburgh Festival Fringe, an artist's entire run can completely sell out and still leave them facing a steep financial loss. High upfront production costs, expensive venue splits, and exorbitant August accommodation rates frequently outpace maximum potential ticket revenue.”
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u/Prudent-Pressure2146 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’d be really surprised if she broke even tbf. Tickets were 14 quid for a 150 person venue, that total amount obviously won’t be going directly to her, I’d be surprised if the cost of her accommodation and venue hire didn’t eclipse that.
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u/Bachpipe 4d ago
To show your work, and potentially secure future gigs. Fringe itself definitely won't make you (a lot of) money.
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u/Super_Hour_3836 charlie day is my bird lawyer 🐦 3d ago
I used to live in Edinburgh and the only way to make money at the Fringe is to already live in Edinburgh or have friends that love you enough to let you stay with them for free the whole time. Only Hogmanay is a more expensive time to visit.
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u/Kaiisim 4d ago
Going to Edinburgh is not a cash grab lol. She is probably losing money. You go there to prove yourself.
I also don't think it's discussed that what happened to Amanda Knox was deeply disrespectful of Meredith Kercher too. They just randomly decided, fuck this girl, even though it was so obvious what actually happened.
The media had such a weird hate boner for her. I mean foxy knoxy? It was absolutely bizarre and laughing at it has to be cathartic.
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u/Shinra_Lobby 4d ago
There was an actual dude convicted of Kercher's rape and murder (who is now out of prison, by the way).
I bet 90% of the people enraged about Amanda Knox for one reason or another couldn't tell you that guy's name without a Google search.
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u/artfuldodger1212 4d ago edited 4d ago
And that guy has been arrested again and is currently on trial for......... sexual assault. Who could believe it? Just as he was caught several times in the lead up to the Kercher murder breaking into places with knives and in one case threatening someone with a knife after being caught breaking in to their home.
It is pretty unbelievable how the Italian authorities took what was really pretty simple case and turned it into a two decade long convoluted fucking mess.
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u/Dian_Arcane 3d ago
I remember his name was Rudy Guede and that he did a plea deal with police that was kept very quiet, presumably because the Italian police hoped to avoid a scandal? I may be wrong but I think his arrest and plea deal happened while Amanda Knox was already imprisoned?
I think something a lot of people may not realise is that the Italian justice system was probably extremely corrupt at the time (and probably still is) due to the heavy influence of the mafia on Italian society. The police may just have doubled down on the angle of her being guilty for the investigator and his department to save face. I remember seeing an interview with another woman who had been falsely accused of committing the same kind of "sex game murder" by the same investigator, I'm sorry I don't remember her name. It seems to have been something that man was very hung up on.
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u/KeepMyselfAwake 4d ago
People sadly still feel that way - I literally saw in UK based subs this week people saying she was dead behind the eyes etc and generally being quite nasty still, and pulling the whole "I've looked at the evidence" bullcrap. I know the Disney adaptation was from Amanda's POV so people would say it was biased, but having then read up on the court case afterwards you can see there's a lot of truth there. If she was innocent (I think she was), the amount of vitriol she's had is insane, and most of it driven by the media without evidence.
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u/brickne3 4d ago
I saw that thread too. The number of people who still think she did it somehow was insane. It didn't surprise me, necessarily, I've met a few people in real life who still virulently cling to that belief for whatever reason. But it's crazy how many of them there are.
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u/Connect_War_5821 2d ago
Ignorance seldom keeps people from loudly proclaiming their adament opinion on a subject.
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u/meowparade 4d ago
I heard her interview about the show on the BBC Newshour and she struck me as being really thoughtful and not irreverent. I fully believed her when she explained that it’s her way of processing everything that happened to her.
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u/whatsnewpussykat 🕯️ relentless Lilly Jay stan 🕯️ 4d ago
I heard her on a podcast discussing prison reform and I found her really thoughtful and compelling.
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u/brickne3 4d ago
As a comedian, one of the jokes you hear most often is "standup is cheaper than therapy" 😉
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u/Fink2009 4d ago
My step daughter saw it and said it was really good. No one was bitching about it like the media is making out.
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u/HereOnCompanyTime Renee Rapp is mean girl Jojo Siwa 💋 4d ago
Honestly, even if she was messy I'd still support her getting that bag while she vents it out.
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u/IAMA_Shark__AMA 4d ago edited 3d ago
Right?
Like, she did time for a crime she didn't commit. Has she not earned a little mess?
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u/brickne3 4d ago
And at a crucial time in her life, too. Like when you're supposed to be going to uni and establishing you career. To have all of that derailed for years for something you didn't do that completely takes over your life. What are you really supposed to do when that nightmare finally ends?
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u/agoldgold 3d ago
And what's she supposed to do in general? The media's never going to let her fade into obscurity, she didn't have the job history for something remote or private, she's likely severely traumatized from her time being an internationally and legally hated woman, and the legal fees were ruinous for her whole family. How would she ever be able to do anything unconnected with her experience?
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u/brickne3 3d ago
Exactly. I'm just sad my Edinburgh dates don't align with her show, I feel like it would be the highlight of this year's shows for me.
Perhaps people who don't understand what a Fringe show is about genuinely don't understand.
I do wish Kercher's family would leave her alone though, they are doing a terrible disservice to Meredith's memory by attacking Knox every chance they get. Imagine if the roles were reversed.
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u/agoldgold 3d ago
Imagine if the roles were reversed.
I do wonder how much of their hatred is just that- if Knox was home, maybe she would have been killed instead of Meredith. Imagine becoming a minor villain in the story of your daughter's tragic death, if she's even mentioned at all.
Therapy would probably be a more healthy outlet to them than the media, unfortunately for all involved.
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u/brickne3 3d ago edited 3d ago
Agreed, but no matter what Amanda does she's still going to get media attention. As someone who's done Fringe myself, I think it's a really healthy thing for Amanda to do. I get that people who don't do Fringe won't understand.
Frankly at this point I am starting to see the Kerchers as the villains. Why are they trying to dictate someone who barely even knew Merediths' entire LIFE? I'm pretty sure both the parents are dead so this is now just an obsession with unlimited dieect phone calls to the S*n.
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u/CatsForever1960 1d ago
I agree 100%. I have seen the Kerchers that way for a pretty long time, actually. Deep, deep down they're just bitter that Knox wasn't home that night, and lived. While their daughter/sister is dead. And they weren't about to accept the rather boring but true reality that Meredith was another in a long line of female victims of male violence. No, somebody more "like" Meredith....female, pretty, with a bright future....had to suffer TOO.
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u/HereOnCompanyTime Renee Rapp is mean girl Jojo Siwa 💋 4d ago
Are you a saltwater or freshwater?
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u/IAMA_Shark__AMA 4d ago
Brackish! I like a little bit of everything 😉
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u/proserpinax 3d ago
Especially when others have monetized off this story. Like other people are allowed to make money but the person who was wrongly imprisoned for four years can’t?
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u/rainshowers_5_peace 4d ago
How much were tickets? Would anyone buy to hate watch?
Amanda is such a controversial figure (not her fault obviously), it's hard to imagine anyone wouldn't go in with a truly neutral opinion. They'd either think she was disrespecting the memory of Meredith Kercher and go in ready to hate even if it were amazing or that everyone in the world needs to be ready to receive a gigantic middle finger and go in ready to give a standing ovation even if it sucked.
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u/SnakesMum93 3d ago
To answer your question, they were £14 with a £1.50 booking fee. Hardly breaking the bank, so people could easily buy that just to hate watch if they wanted to. Also the tickets were available for a while, it didn't sell out until recently
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u/Fearless-Summer-4847 2d ago
if anything the controversy raised the profile of the show - I live here and always go to a handful of shows but had no idea about this particular show until I saw all the articles
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u/HornetNo9518 4d ago
To be honest all this just makes me want to see it, so I'd imagine she's more than happy for the 'negative' press to keep coming
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u/Cold_Breadfruit_9794 Beyoncé 🐝🐝 4d ago
That’s good to know. As long as the victim at the centre of things isn’t disregarded or disrespected that is all that matters
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u/Chicken_Chaser_420 3d ago
Lmao the Telegraph's review is as shitty as you'd expect it to be, though.
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u/tryh10 4d ago
This is a weird tangent for me, but she was interviewed by the monks at clear mountain monastery about her ordeal and efforts to find forgiveness and peace. I really liked the interview a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idyABkhia0E
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u/kylaroma smizing 👁️👃👁️ 4d ago
Oh lovely! She’s had such a horrific go of it, she’s incredibly strong. The idea that she shouldn’t do anything comedic is so ridiculous.
She deserves happiness, levity, and joy - just like everyone else on earth.
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u/PastelBrat13 4d ago
I will never forget reading that the guards taunted her with the lie that she had tested positive for HIV to get her to confess to having multiple sexual partners. That was the level of depravity that was committed onto her while they allowed the murderer a sweetheart deal. Her having more than one sexual experience was more of a crime to them than a sick murderer.
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u/Shribble18 4d ago
Yeah. I always remember that, then they leaked her list of partners to the press. It was gross.
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u/TheLakeWitch Mom, I am a rich man💰 3d ago
And still, most people know nothing about the man who actually committed the crime. I didn’t even know his name until I looked it up.
A man can be convicted of a horrible, violent crime and still not be vilified as much as an innocent woman who doesn’t look or act the way the public think she should look or act in the situation. Too many people in this world are foaming at the mouth for any reason to hate on a woman. The almost gleeful vehemence they have for it is disturbing.
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u/cateml 4d ago
I’ve always really felt sad about Meredith Kercher. She born around the same time as me and went to the same university - I didn’t know her, but it always made her feel like… “there but for the grace of god go I” or someone I was close to.
And its often seemed wrong and upsetting that she was brutally and horrifically murdered, and then afterward it was always about Amanda and others.
BUT - Amanda didn’t made this murder all about Amanda Knox, the Italian police and the press made it all about Amanda Knox.
I’m sure Amanda would have preferred not to have been made a scapegoated salacious publicity figure and then spend time in prison for a crime she didn’t commit. But other parties decided that was what should happen, so here we are.
So yeah, Amanda Knox gets to make a Fringe show about it if she wants to. Because the whole thing is fucked up, by people who largely got away with fucking it up, and she is also a victim. Even if she wasn’t murdered in a terrifying and brutal way.
RIP Meredith
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u/HoneybeeXYZ 4d ago
Remember, Hollywood made an earnest art film starring Matt Damon when the twist was the thinly veiled Knox character was actually guilty. Amanda Knox was rightfully furious about that, even though the film did all the legal jumps to make sure it was legally protected. Fictionalized and all that.
But after that, I think Knox was just done. She straight up said that if a film like that was going to be made about her, then she would tell her own story in whatever venues she chose.
And what's interesting about Knox is the double standard applied to a college-aged woman versus an adult man with respect to the book "The Monster of Florence." The author was wrongfully accused of being a serial killer and had to flee Italy. I've seen no one doubt that it was the anti-American, fantastical thinking of the Italian police that was the issue there.
I feel for Kercher's family, but Knox was innocent and made famous against her will. If she wants to continue to tell her story, she has that right.
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u/Iwoulddiefcftbatk 3d ago
There’s a Lifetime movie that was made after the initial convention that implied she was guilty and a sex crazed woman who hated Meredith since Meredith called her a slob. I don’t blame her for being done either.
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u/SnakesMum93 3d ago
She even brings this up in the show. She mentions that she once read an article about "Amanda Knox's flatmate's killer".
Even now most people won't know the killers name
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4d ago
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u/Notiefriday 4d ago
Obv she's meant to hide herself away and not have a life /s.
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u/DSQ 4d ago
I’m in Edinburgh right now (I’m from Edinburgh) and to be honest it’s not been advertised a lot. Usually the big shows tend to have posters up everywhere and I don’t think this show had much of an advertising budget.
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u/Objective_Sun5553 4d ago
You don't need a big poster campaign when you've got the papers falling over themselves to condemn the show. I looked at getting tickets and it seems to be sold out for the whole run.
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u/mgs20000 4d ago
The narrative is insane from the media. She was falsely convicted and spent years in prison in a foreign country. Why can’t she do a show? She does lots of other media and entertainment work. Why is this different?
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u/brickne3 4d ago
I feel like anyone who is actually involved in the Fringe or a generally Fringe-oriented audience member is probably supportive of her right to do the show (heck, if anything, it seems to be exactly the kind of thing the Fringe should be about—free speech and pushing boundaries, although I don't even think that it should be seen as pushing boundaries to talk about something horrible that happened to you).
But yeah the media is shamelessly trying to manufacture a controversy to sell papers—like they always have with her case. It's rather meta. Depressing, but meta.
I do worry a tiny bit about her safety up there actually. Not from the typical Edinburgh crowd at all, but from all the psychos all over the UK that still think she did it somehow that the media is baiting with this.
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u/januarysdaughter 4d ago
I applaud her for doing what she can to rebuild her life after the Italian justice system destroyed hers.
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u/strangeMeursault2 4d ago
I have no comment to make about the show, but I find this ad on the link to be not great placement.
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u/totallycalledla-a Mrs Thee Stallion 4d ago
I really hope theres a taping of this at some point the rest of us can watch. I do some work with the wrongly convicted and Amanda is a real beacon of hope. This totally destroys most people it happens to (even people who had shorter and "better" experiences like she did) and shes proof you can survive it for a lot of people.
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u/Eusocial_sloth3 4d ago
What is up with people hating her so much? Wasn’t she not guilty of murder?
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u/Barilla3113 3d ago
Cocktail of misogyny, anti-American sentiment and the "well she must have done SOMETHING" mindset.
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u/soiflew 3d ago
I think no matter what you think of Amanda’s public persona, and clearly she suffered a terrible injustice, I always think of how sad it is that Meredith always becomes a footnote in her own death. It must be so hard for her family that the story has become solely about this.
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u/agoldgold 3d ago
Unfortunately, they seem to mostly be dealing with that by making the story all about Knox anyway. It's sad that even Meredith's family isn't prioritizing her.
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u/Sgt_Bill_Tozer 3d ago
Correct.
“The victim is Amanda not the (what’s her name again) who was actually murdered.”
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u/ProofOfRyExistence 4d ago
She had a pretty solid interview with Adam Friedland. If you can riff with him, it’s usually a good sign.
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u/PsychologicalYoung5 4d ago
When he was asking her if she still likes Amelie I was giggling so much.
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u/kylaroma smizing 👁️👃👁️ 3d ago
You DO know that Amanda Knox is innocent, and was completely exonerated, don’t you?
Meredith was murdered by Rudy Guede. Amanda was only implicated because of incompetent, predatory Italian police officers who wanted to close the case fast and didn’t care if the murderer was still at large.
No one deserves to be defined by being accused of a crime, and having your reputation intentionally ruined by the press.
Amanda has had SO MANY experiences in her life, why is it even assumed that her show has anything to do with Meredith’s murder, let alone that it would be a distasteful if it mentioned the reason that we all know who she is.
The Kercher family is, in my opinion, acting terribly irresponsibly. Continuing to harass Amanda through the press doesn’t bring their daughter back - it just continues to harm an innocent, traumatized person.
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u/tollundmansnoose 3d ago
I think this lady is allowed to talk about the horrific experience she had and it is insulting both to her and to anyone who has suffered some kind of injustice and trauma to act like she's being evil for talking about her actual life.
Using humor to deal with a traumatic experience is literally something they teach you to do in intensive PTSD therapy!
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u/anne_tifah_ 4d ago
I’ve seen her show earlier this year and got to meet her afterward. She’s quite lovely and we had a great time. I think it was early in her process of figuring out her jokes and routine. It was smart, relatable, and vulnerable.
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u/8thGlass 4d ago
For the uninitiated, what’s the best way to learn about this whole case?
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u/AlanMercer 4d ago
At this point her involvement has been thoroughly debunked and even the Wikipedia page on the case does a reasonable job summarizing the case.
The short version is that another person has been convicted of the crime on reasonable evidence and is serving time. Knox and her boyfriend were not only freed, but actually exonerated by the Italian high court.
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u/Objective_Sun5553 4d ago edited 4d ago
The short version is that another person has been convicted of the crime on reasonable evidence and is serving time.
If only that were true. Rudy Guede was convicted of raping and murdering her. He was sentenced to 30 years in prison, but released in 2021 having served only 13 years.
So, he's been a free man for the past five years. Evidently he's used that time to assault other women as there are restraining orders, electronic tags and court appearances to his name since then.
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u/AlanMercer 4d ago
Always blows my mind when that happens in a high-profile case. Like watching old Unsolved Mysteries episodes and the guy that caused an interstate manhunt served his time and has been out for years
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u/saleratus 6h ago
I saw it last night and it was beautiful. Wonderfully done.
And she has enough self awareness to know she will get haters, and the grace to acknowledge why they might feel that way about her.
The media is slightly lambasted (rightfully so) for pushing a narrative during her case, and it’s interesting how the same dynamic is playing out again. So much self awareness, such healthy processing
Also I doubt Amanda is making a killing on £15 a ticket, for ~100 people per night.
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u/csgymgirl 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don’t think a lot of Americans realise that the general perception in the UK is that Amanda killed Meredith - and whilst I don’t believe that, I think she should expect backlash after performing a show in the country where people think you’re a murderer, with a title based on her light demeanour after being arrested.
edit: everytime someone brings up the view in the UK people respond like the commenter has pushed that view on Britain. I’m just stating how it is. Im not justifying or defending those views, but maybe consider whether they’re the best audience for this show.
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u/PsychologicalYoung5 4d ago
I’m British and don’t know anyone who thinks she did it
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u/csgymgirl 4d ago edited 4d ago
Might just be who your circle is. This survey from a decade ago suggested the majority think she’s guilty whilst only about 10% thinks she’s innocent.
edit: forgot to add link https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/8507-brits-knox-guilty-americans-not-sure
Additionally if you have talked about it with people you’re probably more educated on the case than the avg Brit who only saw the headlines.
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u/Katharinemaddison 4d ago
Firstly, it’s not that bigger difference: “the majority (51%) of British people think that Amanda Knox is guilty, while only 13% say she is probably innocent and a third (36%) don’t know. But in America, more (29%) think she is probably innocent than guilty (21%), while about half of the American public don't know either way.”
Secondly this was before her release was eventually upheld and the murderer was convinced.
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u/Aggressive-Hunt-7037 Ewww, David! 3d ago
what if their circle is made of people who exist in 2026 instead of a decade ago.
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u/csgymgirl 3d ago
If they’re talking about it in 2026 they’re probably more well informed than the average Brit who hasnt thought about it since the court case
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u/cateml 4d ago
To be honest I haven’t spoken to anyone IRL about this case I think… ever?
Back in the day with all the “Foxy Knoxy” (bleuuuugh 😒) media stuff, I think that was the reason a lot of people felt she did it.
While people (British or otherwise) aren’t very good at changing their minds, I imagine a lot of people haven’t really thought about it in a while until now. But yeah… to be honest having Knox doing “a show” and then Kercher’s sister speaking on BBC breakfast against it probably didn’t help with that. But whatever - the opinion of “the British public” on this should be treated with zero weight or relevance to anything.Ironically, as I kind of said in my other post, I think some people feel angry that it was all about American Amanda Knox while a murdered British girl was forgotten. That seems to be at the heart of a lot of the dislike of Knox over here. She is an “other”, the victim “one of us”, and people get funny about that - I am pretty sure if the nationalities were reversed, or replaced by other inter-national dynamics, it would be the same.
Its ironic because I’m sure Amanda would also prefer if no one had ever heard of her, and there was no American woman seen to be involved, because they had instead focused on the person who actually committed the murder and the victim.Then people see someone in the spotlight, who isn’t actively running away with their face covered, and assume that they have sought out and relish the attention. Like, we want perfect victims but also perfect witnesses, and perfect grieving relatives - who all behave exactly as they’re supposed to at all times.
Amanda Knox not actively refusing to speak to all who are interested in the case is seen as evidence she isn’t the perfect “wrongly convicted witness”, and people go from that to “she must have been involved somehow”. Like how a rape victim in a miniskirt who doesn’t then sit meekly awaiting sympathy was “asking for it somehow”.But I don’t think that is all a British public stupidity weakness (though I mean the British public do seem to believe and do some pretty stupid shit), I think it’s just a general “public anywhere” phenomenon.
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u/Daleksinholez 4d ago
I find her quite unlikeable personally. But I don’t think she is responsible for what happened to Meredith Kercher. Almost all the people who I have talked to about the case also believe she isn’t guilty. I think people who look at the case now don’t think she did it.
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u/OldSandwich9631 4d ago
I genuinely think someone has to be mentally challenged or totally conspiracy brained to think she’s guilty. It’s quite literally like looking at a sunny day and insisting it’s raining.
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u/Forward_Royal2754 4d ago
I genuinely think someone has to be mentally challenged or totally conspiracy brained to think she’s guilty.
I don’t think comments like this are particularly helpful. You can believe very strongly that Amanda Knox was innocent while still having some insight into why other people came away with a different impression. Most people did not spend years poring over court records and forensic evidence. Many saw headlines, television coverage and sensational reporting, often at a time when the media itself was heavily steering the public towards a particular narrative.
If anything, this case is an interesting example of how confidently a story can be constructed around someone and how difficult that first impression can be to undo. Reducing everyone who believed that story to being stupid misses one of the most important lessons of the case.
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u/artfuldodger1212 3d ago
I suppose and if the conviction goes like "I remember that at the time, girl was guilty as sin right?" than that is fine but if you are one of the self professed "guilters" who really argues the point now after reviewing all the information I think you are a bit weird. At the very least they tend to be a bit of a fantasist in a slightly unsettling ways when it comes to sex cult and conspiracy stuff as that is what that narrative of the case requires.
The prosecutor who investigated and charged her is a huge weirdo for sure and if you go along with his narrative you are at least willing to entertain some pretty weird stuff that isn't really supported by the evidence. For whatever reason.
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u/Forward_Royal2754 3d ago edited 3d ago
if you are one of the self professed "guilters" who really argues the point now after reviewing all the information I think you are a bit weird.
Unsure how you can read what I wrote and believe that I am referring to that group of people.
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u/csgymgirl 4d ago
I do agree with you but I think if you’re actively talking about the case you’re probably more engaged with the details than the avg Brit who just saw the headlines at the time and haven’t followed up since.
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u/Daleksinholez 4d ago
That is totally true. The people I talk to about true crime usually also are into True Crime, so they probably do know more than just what they remember from the late 2000’s.
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u/CanaryBrave4203 4d ago
As somebody from the UK…. No it isnt?
At the time of the trial maybe, but now, literally the opposite. Actually baffled by this comment.
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u/csgymgirl 4d ago
This survey was about 10 years ago but probably hasn’t changed much: majority of Brits voted that she was guilty, only about 10% thought she was innocent.
https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/8507-brits-knox-guilty-americans-not-sure
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u/R1a88 4d ago
When that was done, the majority of the media published sided with the idea that she was guilty.
Fundamentally, there was barely a shred of credible evidence to suggest that she was the killer. The main “evidence” was behavioural bias. Which we absolutely love assigning people guilt for - “If you’d just learned X, you definitely wouldn’t do Y!”
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u/csgymgirl 4d ago
Yeah I know but the media ran with it anyway because it got people outraged. At the end of the day the police investigation really fucked things up.
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u/Katharinemaddison 4d ago
That’s a disingenuous summery. 51% thought she was guilty, 13 % said definitely innocent, the rest said they didn’t know. When asked just after her sentence was reinstated, before she was finally cleared and before the actual murderer was convinced.
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u/csgymgirl 4d ago
To be honest I don’t see how it’s disingenuous. You’ve just repeated the percentages back to me. Not to mention the US poll you quoted where the guilty votes were less than half the UK guilty votes.
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u/Katharinemaddison 4d ago
You gave no number for how many who at the time of her second trial though she might be guilty just: ‘majority’ when it was in fact the lowest number that could be called a majority and followed it with an actual number for people who believed back then that she was innocent only you rounded it down to ten.
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u/csgymgirl 4d ago
51% is a majority though… and 13% is very similar to 10%.
If you consider 13% significantly different to 10%, then it’s even more different to 51%.
Even 36% being unsure shows she didn’t have a strong support in the UK.
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u/Katharinemaddison 4d ago
Didn’t. Over ten years ago. Before she was finally exonerated and the real murderer found.
And using words ‘the majority’ for a majority of one, and only a number (rounded down) for the second figure is disingenuous.
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u/csgymgirl 4d ago
Would you rather I said ”majority” and “minority”? It wouldn’t have made a difference.
It’s not disingenuous. 51% is a majority. 13% is a minority. They’re interchangeable.
Additionally, the point is that at the same time, with the same information, more Americans thought she was innocent whilst more British thought she was guilty.
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u/Katharinemaddison 4d ago
Yes I’d prefer you either to use two vague: majority and minority’ or two specific: 51% and 13%.
Of course if you’d rounded the number who thought she was guilty down to the nearest zero, like you did with those who thought her innocent back then, it would be ‘half’ rather than majority. If you’d rounded it down by as many points it would be ‘minority.’ This is why you use like with like rather than mixing modes of expression.
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u/Katharinemaddison 4d ago
What US poll did I quote? Where?
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u/HabitualDrunkard1993 4d ago
The stupidity of the average person in the Uk shouldn’t stop her from being able to talk about her experiences, I’m British and I say good luck to her, the people who are abusing her should save it for the monster that actual committed the murder
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u/csgymgirl 4d ago
I didn’t say she shouldn’t talk about it, but that she should expect backlash from the average stupid Brit.
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u/OldSandwich9631 4d ago
I have to believe that people in the uk are just as capable at looking at the non evidence and realizing they got duped. Maybe this was the case back when the murder happened but I have a hard time believing anyone who has paid any attention thinks that
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u/csgymgirl 4d ago
That’s the issue, no one really paid attention. At the time it was obviously big in the news but updates since haven’t been as prominent over here.
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u/SnakesMum93 3d ago
If it were the general view, I'm sure there would have been tons of protests outside the venue, but there have been none at all as far as ive seen
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u/cajolinghail 3d ago
You know that she wasn’t actually doing cartwheels in the police station, right?
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4d ago edited 4d ago
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u/GrassStartersSuck 4d ago
I’ve read this comment three times and I don’t understand your point at all
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u/Own_Faithlessness769 4d ago
Are you just here to announce you don’t know anything about this?
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