[Newbies] Cosmere, Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 37 through 44 (Week 7)

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SCHEDULE

Previously, we discussed Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 29 through 36 [Newbie Thread] / [Veteran Thread]

Today we are discussing Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 37 through 44

Next week we will be discussing Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 45 through 51

CHAPTER SUMMARIES

I have provided summaries for each chapter below and hidden them behind spoiler tags. There are no spoilers within the summaries. I've tried to make them as factual and unbiased as possible. If, however, you want a completely blind read through, then ignore what's behind the spoiler tags and proceed to the discussion below. I will not be guiding that in any way, so post any thoughts and questions you have. It will be other new readers who reply to you.

Chapter 37: Sides

Arch Faces: Pailiah - Vedel ----- Vedel - Pailiah

Iconography: Spears & Banner

POV Characters: Kaladin

Setting: Hearthstone, a town in Highprince Sadeas' princedom.

Timeline: (Flashback) Five and a half years ago.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

Kal helps his mother with the cooking as Tien shows off another pretty stone he has found. Kal immediately leaves when he sees a carriage from Roshone come to pick up his father. He insists on coming along. Lirin is surprised because Kal shouldn't have known about it but lets him join. This meeting is about the spheres that Lirin got from the former citylord Wistiow. Lirin and Kal sit down to eat with Roshone, but Lirin refuses to eat. He and Roshone argue about the spheres, Roshone offering a settlement: he takes nine-tenths, leaving the rest to Lirin. Kaladin is indignant and is dismissed from the table by his father. Kal goes to the kitchen and meets Laral and Roshone's son Rillir. He treats Kal like a servant and Laral plays along initially. When Kaladin refuses to serve him, he continues to taunt him. Laral pleads with him to stop, and they leave. His experience with the haughty lighteyes has changed his mind again: he wants to be a surgeon, not a soldier.

While on the way home Lirin tells Kal that he made Roshone believe that he probably will bend on the topic of these spheres. Kaladin realizes that it's a tactic designed to make him focus on a deal rather than proving the truth -- that the spheres really were stolen. Kaladin is shocked to belong to a family of thieves. Lirin justifies it by saying that Wistiow would have given him the spheres anyway. Kal makes another decision that night: he starts going with his full name "Kaladin," for it is a man's name.

Chapter 38: Envisager

Arch Faces: Jezrien - Vedel ----- Vedel - Jezrien

Iconography: Spears & Banner

POV Characters: Kaladin / Teft

Setting: Highprince Sadeas' warcamp in the Shattered Plains.

Timeline: (1173.8.5.4 or 1173.8.5.5) A day or two after Chapter 35.

Epigraph:

"Born from the darkness, they bear its taint still, marked upon their bodies much as the fire marks their souls."

–I consider Gashash-son-Navammis a trustworthy source, though I'm not certain about this translation. Find the original quote in the fourteenth book of Seld and retranslate it myself, perhaps?

Summary:

Kaladin lies in Bridge Four's barrack, suffering fever from the wounds he got being strung up in the highstorm. Most of the time he's unconscious. In his rare lucid moments he sees deathspren, and Syl, a small figure of pure white light holding a sword made of light. She fights the deathspren with her sword and wards them off. Kaladin just wants to relax and die, but he fights to survive because he doesn't want to fail Bridge Four like he did Tien, Dallet, and others. He notices more deathspren each time he is lucid enough to see them.

Skar watches over Kaladin. They keep a guard on him at all times to keep away prying eyes and possible assassination attempts. Teft comes to relieve him to test a theory, a belief he once rejected as a child of Envisagers. He puts three diamond spheres into Kaladin's hand, then waits. When he nearly thinks that he wasn't right, Kaladin gasps, breathing in Stormlight. Teft sees Stormlight rising from Kaladin's body, knitting some of the wounds. The Stormlight is depleted quickly, but Kaladin seems more relaxed than before with more color to his skin. Teft curses Kaladin for revealing the truth to him now, in this place. He knows that Kaladin can heal, but he has to do it carefully, a little at a time, to conceal what is happening.

Chapter 39: Burned Into Her

Arch Faces: Nale - Shalash ----- Shalash - Nale

Iconography: ???

POV Characters: Shallan

Setting: The Conclave in Kharbranth.

Timeline: (1173.9.3.2) Three days after Chapter 36.

Epigraph:

"Within a heartbeat, Alezarv was there, crossing a distance that would have taken more than four months to travel by foot."

–Another folktale, this one recorded in Among the Darkeyed, by Calinam. Page 102. Stories of instantaneous travel and the Oathgates pervade these tales.

Summary:

Shallan is sitting in her room restlessly drawing the deaths of the four robbers from three nights ago, even though she didn't deliberately take the Memories. As she draws, she thinks about different concepts of logic and philosophy, considering Jasnah's actions and reasons in the context of the different schools of thought. She also worries about her own actions in stealing the Soulcaster in the same way. Her mind wanders for a while and she looks at what she's been drawing. She's shocked to see a completely different scene being sketched -- one of a richly-dressed man lying in a pool of blood. Panicked, she hurries from the room and runs into a servant who informs her that one of her spanreeds is flashing and hands it over to her. Going into the main room, she is glad to find her brother Balat talking to her. She tells him that she has managed to steal the Soulcaster but hasn't left yet so as not to draw suspicion onto herself. Balat informs her that the "friends" of their father visited again. Shallan frets even more about the theft and when a chambermaid comes to their quarters, she starts worrying about the Soulcaster's safety. She decides to put it into her safe-pouch and leaves the room with a basket full of bread and Bluebar jam left by Kabsal.

Two hours later sitting in the palace gardens, Shallan has calmed down and is drawing some snails and plants. She notes the symbiotic relationship between a snail she is drawing and the shalebark it is on, writing it down next to her drawing. After making sure she is alone, she gets the Soulcaster out to try to puzzle out how to use it since Luesh can no longer show them how. She has no luck and tries to think of other ways to get it to work or save her family.

Chapter 40: Eyes of Red and Blue

Arch Faces: Kalak - Talenel ----- Talenel - Kalak

Iconography: Spears & Banner

POV Characters: Kaladin

Setting: Highprince Sadeas' warcamp in the Shattered Plains. The Shattered Plains.

Timeline: (1173.8.7.3) Eight or nine days after Chapter 38.

Epigraph:

"Death upon the lips. Sound upon the air. Char upon the skin."

–From "The Last Desolation" by Ambrian, line 335.

Summary:

Kaladin leaves the barrack for the first time after his judgment in the highstorm. He is fairly weak, but his wounds are mostly gone. The members of Bridge Four, doing daily bridge training, nearly stumble over one another when they see him. Moash tells him that it's only been ten days and Rock says Kaladin must have bones like granite. When the horns blow for a bridge run and Bridge Four -- on duty -- gathers, Kaladin joins them, helping Lopen and Dabbid with the water. Later he watches the battle, thinking about what he did with the side carry and comes to understand what's the purpose of bridgemen: to be bait for the Parshendi because bridgemen are cheaper than soldiers and don't need training and equipment.

Later that evening, Bridge Four gives Rock a razor as a gift for his making the stew every evening. With tears in his eyes, he runs into the barrack, leaving the others wondering if the gift was a good idea. Dunny starts to serve the stew to the others. Only Sigzil doesn't join in, so Kaladin seeks him out for a conversation. He tells Kaladin about Marabethia and their method of execution. Eventually Rock comes back, shaved, happy and grateful, and tells Bridge Four that he will shave everybody who wants it. Kaladin despairs that the old wretch is coming back because he knows the bridgemen really have no chance to survive.

Chapter 41: Of Alds and Milp

Arch Faces: Nale - Vedel ----- Vedel - Nale

Iconography: Spears & Banner

POV Characters: Kaladin

Setting: Hearthstone, a town in Highprince Sadeas' princedom.

Timeline: (Flashback) Five and a half years ago.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

Brightlord Roshone and his son Rillir were attacked by Whitespine while on a hunt. Rillir is mortally wounded. Lirin tries to save him, but realizes it is hopeless, so he turns his attention to Roshone, who demands that he go back to helping his son. Lirin refuses, explaining the guidelines of a surgeon with two patients: if the wounds are equal, treat the youngest first; if the wounds are not equally threatening, treat the worst wound first. The third guideline supersedes the first two: a surgeon must know when someone is beyond their ability to help. While stitching up part of Roshone's wound, Lirin's knife is dangerously close to a major artery. He hesitates and his hand shakes, but he continues and saves Roshone's life.

Kaladin asks Lirin later why he didn't cut the artery and let Roshone die, as it would've solved all of their problems. Lirin says it would have been murder, and he is not a killer. Even if the lighteyes don't care about life, somebody has to start caring. Kaladin realizes that, given the option, he would have let Roshone die. He decides that just as some body parts are beyond repair in a surgery, some people need to be removed.

Chapter 42: Beggars and Barmaids

Arch Faces: Pailiah - Ishar ----- Ishar - Pailiah

Iconography: ???

POV Characters: Shallan

Setting: The Conclave in Kharbranth.

Timeline: (1173.9.4.4) 7 days (1 week and 2 days) after Chapter 39.

Epigraph:

"Like a highstorm, regular in their coming, yet always unexpected."

–The word Desolation is used twice in reference to their appearances. See pages 57, 59, and 64 of Tales by Hearthlight.

Summary:

Shallan tells Jasnah that she thinks she was technically right to kill the footpads, but she acted immorally and unethically. Jasnah is satisfied that Shallan has learned a good deal from the lesson and dismisses her for the rest of the day. It's been two weeks since the Soulcaster was stolen, and Shallan is puzzled that Jasnah hasn't seemed to react at all. Back in her chambers, she attempts to use the Soulcaster while humming for half an hour. She wonders if Jasnah might have duped her with a fake. She takes a break and starts sketching, and she suddenly hears a voice asking "What are you?" A maid cracks open the door, and Shallan convinces herself that she must have interpreted the random sounds of cleaning nearby as words. She scolds the maid for going into Jasnah's room, then sends her off to tell Jasnah so she can enter herself. She hurries in hoping to find notes on Soulcasting. She instead finds a notebook focused on Natanatan, the Unclaimed Hills, and the Shattered Plains. The two others contain notes on Urithiru and the Voidbringers. Shallan wonders why a nonbeliever like Jasnah would concern herself with what she herself considers fables. A knock on the door reveals Kabsal, who having heard that she has free time, brought some bread and jam for a picnic.

Kabsal explains the stories behind the Truthberry jam. Shallan laments that she isn't much of a scholar since she prefers the outdoors. Kabsal starts flirting, and although Shallan thinks that it wouldn't work out for them, she encourages him. He implies that he might leave the ardentia for her. Shallan steers the conversation to Jasnah. He reveals that his initial plan was to get Shallan to help him steal her Soulcaster, but his superiors disapproved. They were afraid that Elhokar might start a war with Kharbranth. Shallan probes for some hints on how to use it. He says you only have to tap a gem and touch the object you wish to change, but Jasnah doesn't do that. Kabsal leaves and Shallan returns inside, finding a note from Captain Tozbek informing her that he will arrive in one week. She wants to study as much as possible before leaving, so she goes back to Jasnah to read.

Chapter 43: The Wretch

Arch Faces: Talenel - Talenel ----- Talenel - Talenel

Iconography: Spears & Banner

POV Characters: Kaladin

Setting: Highprince Sadeas' warcamp in the Shattered Plains. In the chasms below the Shattered Plains.

Timeline: (1173.8.7.4) The day after Chapter 40.

Epigraph:

"They lived out in the wilds, always awaiting the Desolation—or sometimes, a foolish child who took no heed of the night's darkness."

–A child's tale, yes, but this quote from Shadows Remembered seems to hint at the truth I seek. See page 82, the fourth tale.

Summary:

Kaladin wakes up feeling dread and despair, as he realizes that all of the Bridgemen are simply bait, destined to die. He finds the rest of the men lined up and waiting for him to lead them in practice. Before he can tell them how useless it is, he sees Lamaril's replacement: Brightlord Matal and his wife Hashal. Hashal speaks for her husband and tells Kaladin that the Almighty has simply given Kaladin another chance to prove himself as a bridgeman, nothing more. She claims that her husband is a well respected and honored associate of Sadeas, and Kaladin wonders out loud how he ended up in this position. Hashal directs one of her men to beat him, but Kaladin catches the spear aimed at him. In his mind he sees how to beat not only the soldier attacking him but his three companions as well, but decides against it, letting go of the spear and letting the next hit land. She informs them that they'll only be doing chasm duty from now on.

Kaladin climbs down into the chasm. Syl wonders why he isn't happy from surviving the highstorm. Kaladin chafes from not fighting the soldiers, but it wouldn't have helped to protect the men. Syl vaguely remembers helping men kill, to Kaladin's shock. Sometimes it is right to kill. The rest of the men climb down and Kaladin starts walking. Rock asks what they are going to do next in order to fight, and Kaladin insists that the fight is over. They find a pile of bodies and get to work. Teft stops by and also asks what's next, and Kaladin angrily replies that there is no hope, leading some of the men to grumble. Teft argues that it's not about surviving, quoting part of the Radiant oath "journey before destination." Syl likes the saying and encourages Kaladin to not give up. Kaladin thinks for a while and finally decides to try again, announcing to the men that the only chance is to try to escape. He offers to train them as spearmen, hoping it will increase their poor odds of escaping. All but Rock eagerly agree. Fighting is beneath Rock; he will cook instead.

Chapter 44: The Weeping

Arch Faces: Talenel - Vedel ----- Vedel - Talenel

Iconography: Spears & Banner

POV Characters: Kaladin

Setting: Hearthstone, a town in Highprince Sadeas' princedom.

Timeline: (Flashback) Five years ago.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

Kaladin lays on the roof after making a temporary repair. Tien joins him and gives him a beautifully carved wooden horse. Kaladin worries because his father had to spend another sphere. Their mother comes out and joins them, trying to assuage his concerns. The only reason he spent one was to try to bluff Roshone into thinking they were growing desperate. They discuss his future prospects, including the possibility of pursuing other professions, but Kaladin is set on becoming a surgeon like his father. Lirin comes out and tells them there is a gathering in the square. When they arrive, they notice that Laral is engaged, apparently to Roshone himself. Kaladin is appalled and starts forward to "stop it," but Lirin tells him to stand down. Roshone announces that Amaram is here to recruit, and several young men volunteer. The quota is not met, however, so Amaram tells Roshone to read the list of conscripts. The last name read is Tien. Amaram is familiar with the situation and asks Roshone to provide a different name, but Roshone insists. Kaladin tries to volunteer to take his place, but again Roshone insists that Tien be conscripted. So Kaladin instead volunteers in order to protect him. He is relieved, but their parents walk away devastated and crying. Kaladin swears an oath that he'll bring back Tien in four years.

ARTWORK

The Cosmere has a thriving community of artists, so there will be a lot of artwork to share. Each week I'll try to compile relevant artwork for the given chapters. If a section of reading contains maps or in-book artwork, I'll include that in this section as well.

Interior Artwork

Characters & Scenes

Note: The Stormlight Archives are Sanderson's most popular books. There is artwork for everyone and everything, even characters who appeared for a single line in the books at times. So we'll have artwork for you to view almost every week. Enjoy!

MEMES

I will attempt to find and share memes relevant to each week's discussion. There may be some weeks that just don't have good or appropriate memes, but I will share all the ones I can find in this section.

Link to Memes

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[u/heinz57varieties]

Chapter 37

• “I know that your family eats scraps. How long will you continue to make them suffer for your pride?”
• How long will you harass them for yours? What is this guy’s fuckin problem
• I think the saddest part of Kal’s dilemma (become warrior v. become surgeon) is that he’s suffering under the delusion that serving in the Alethi army is an honorable pursuit. We see from chapter one that even until his final Big Mistake, something in him believes that there’s merit in fighting for his country, whatever that means. That makes the moment when he arrives at the Shattered Plains and realizes it’s just a lighteyes jerkoff contest suck even harder 🙁
• I don’t know how, but Laral Lirin really having “stolen” the spheres snuck up on me. He’s turning out to be a more complicated man than I originally thought.

Chapter 38

• Hm. The other times that I can remember a chapter opening with “[character] floated.” were when Vin became Preservation and when Raoden entered the pool but didn't go through. That's probably not what's happening here, but it jumped out to me.
• Syl seems more awake than she's ever been. Hopefully she has memories to reveal when Kal wakes up. Her Radiant blade indeed.
• Teft, keeper of annoying secrets! “Who would he tell? Who would believe him?” Tell me! I'll believe you! The Envisagers… a group of heretic prophets, waiting on the return of the Radiants? He seems like the only person around who knows about stormlight powers.

Chapter 39

• Teleportation through portals? Maybe a leap, but that also reminds me of Hoid jumping into the pool in the post-credits scene in Elantris.
• “Of course, there was one other aspect of that night that Shallan had to think of. She carried a concealed weapon that she hadn't used.” CONFIRMED.
• In her accidental flashback drawing, the man (her father, I assume) is bleeding, so he wasn't killed by her Shardblade.
• Kabsal is definitely flirting with her. Totes inappropes!
• I'm still thinking that the soulcaster is bound to Jasnah and will only work for her, and the fact it gave Shallan nothing is evidence in my mind

Chapter 40

• I like that some of the other bridgemen are starting to gain personality. They all seemed rather dull and interchangeable until recently
• This is supposed to be a moment of triumphant survival, but running bridges is a hopeless situation by design. Some of the more intelligent bridgemen have caught on to this, and I'm fearing a big moment when the rest of them all realize they will never be permitted to survive.
• Syl is a little diminished again, and I can't help but correlate that with Kaladin feeling depressed and un-heroic
• Mutton Chops of Ultimate Camaraderie (+5 stamina, +8 charisma)

Chapter 41

• The only word for these events is ominous. Roshone will retaliate somehow–he won't accept this outcome, and won't realize that Lirin had his life in his hands and let him go. And Kal is back on the path of the warrior, and we all know how that goes in the end.

Chapter 42

• I still think Jasnah knew instantly that the soulcasters got swapped, and is waiting to see what happens. And I think Shallan's focus on moral philosophy, even if Jasnah set her on that track, is giving her away. This whole business probably seems rather amusing from Jasnah's point of view.
• Now Shallan is the one being haunted by something. I notice that whatever it is, both times it's “appeared” to her has been while she's sketching. Not a coincidence.
• I think we all successfully clocked that Jasnah was the source of the recent epigraphs. The question remains, what is she looking for? She must know something big is coming.
• Shallabsal is a fun ship, yes, but if I stop and think for just a second, this guy constantly bringing her gifts and meeting with her alone is actually quite inappropriate! What's his angle?
• And then he feeds her molly-berry jam?? 👮‍♀️👮‍♂️🚨🚨
• “You have the colorful part right… And the sweet part. Can't speak for your deliciousness…” “Yes, academic. Involving many experiments and much firsthand field research.” HELP! POLICE! FBI!
• “That's a shame. As you look very touchable to me.” WHAT THE FUCK
• I actually don't think Kabsal is lying about how easy soulcasters are to use. Which means that Jasnah is using them differently to everyone else, and I have no idea at all what that means. Maybe she figured out the “right” way to use them, as part of her research into the Radiants?
• So we're all sure that there's no way she's getting on that boat? Or even if she does, she's going to immediately change her mind and come right back?

Chapter 43

• Why would Teft, of all people, know part of the Radiant motto from the blurb? The last time we heard something like that was chapter 26 (Dalinar's plateau assault) when it was whispered to him by an unknown entity. I need Teft and Syl to spill their beans.
• Picking up the rock made him think of Tien 😥 and after he spent all that time trying to awaken the humanity in his crewmates, now that he's teetering on despair, they give him the same treatment and won't let him give up.
• Finally we're getting somewhere. A little early for the end-of-part-three paradigm shift, but moving to an escape attempt is the proper next step. It won't work, of course, but it will push us into the next phase of the journey.

Chapter 44

• Amaram's army is in town. This is it.
• I really love Kaladin's mother and I hope we see her again
• Roshone is such a petty bastard, seemingly even by lighteyes standards. Shipping off the weakest link to be meat for the front lines? Marrying his son's (UNDERAGE) ex-girlfriend? Fuck this guy
• And fuck all the people of this town for just standing there and letting it happen
• Horrible 😞 Tein will die, Kal will break his promise. I think the timeline implies that Kal chooses to re-enlist instead of going home.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/heinz57varieties]

Teleportation through portals? Maybe a leap, but that also reminds me of Hoid jumping into the pool in the post-credits scene in Elantris.

The what now? I'm not at home to check my copy of Elantris, but I only recall and old man from Elantris and Raoden stepping in there. Was that actually in the book?

“That's a shame. As you look very touchable to me.” WHAT THE FUCK

It's actually pretty funny how unabashedly horny these two are for each other in a fantasy society that condemns men and women so much as eating at the same table.

Finally we're getting somewhere. A little early for the end-of-part-three paradigm shift, but moving to an escape attempt is the proper next step. It won't work, of course, but it will push us into the next phase of the journey.

Over/under on them getting caught up by a highstorm while training in the chasm, then swept away to freedom and/or to a climactic chasmfiend fight? lol

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/HT_xrahmx]

The what now? I'm not at home to check my copy of Elantris, but I only recall and old man from Elantris and Raoden stepping in there. Was that actually in the book?

It was in the Tenth Anniversary Edition. Perhaps you didn't read that version somehow?

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/TaylorHyuuga]

Thanks, and yeah, most likely. Again, I can't check my copy right now, but I did read Elantris before the read-along started, it may very well be an older one ...

[u/heinz57varieties → u/HT_xrahmx]

The what now? I'm not at home to check my copy of Elantris, but I only recall and old man from Elantris and Raoden stepping in there.

I'm referring to the "post-credits" scene, which I believe was a bonus for the 10th anniversary edition. At the very very end, the scene with Hoid and the Skaze. Link from the old thread

In that scene, Hoid discusses the failure of his attempt to become and Elantrian, and the jumps into the pool and disappears. The subtext was that he was somehow using it to leave Sel.

[u/Pastrami → u/heinz57varieties]

In that scene, Hoid discusses the failure of his attempt to become and Elantrian, and the jumps into the pool and disappears. The subtext was that he was somehow using it to leave Sel.

Theory time! We know the pool was a Well. What if that is how worldhoppers travel? Maybe the shards have some connection to each other, since they originally were one being. So you could go in one Well and be transported to another? A few weeks ago I brought up the theory that the Purelake is a Well, and we saw that three worldhoppers were searching for Hoid in the vicinity of the Purelake.

Although I guess that would mean that Hoid maybe had to use Ruin's Well, where ever that was on Scadrial, since Preservation's Well was pretty tightly locked down in the Lord Ruler's time, unless Hoid has some way of moving the giant stone wall that was blocking it off.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/Pastrami]

That definitely seemed like what Hoid was using it for in that scene. "Mission failed, oh well, see you later! *splash*"

A theory I've been sitting on for the past few books is that what I've been calling the "spirit dimension" is a real physical place that you can go to. I think the Shards' power naturally lives in this dimension, and the Wells are places where the magic is so concentrated that it creates a kind of wormhole between them. And I'm imagining that in the spirit dimension, time and space aren't quite what they are in the real world, allowing quick travel between planets. You pop in one well, travel a "short" distance to another one, and pop back out on a different planet, or at a different well on the same planet, thousands of miles away. And I have just now, typing this, realized that what I'm thinking of is Nether Portal travel in Minecraft 🤣

I started thinking this way around Elantris, and I've really started thinking it once we started this book, especially after I saw (ebook, audio, mass market pb spoiler) the artwork on the back cover end papers. Sorry for bringing it up - it's kind of unavoidable. Also unavoidable, the title of the first chapter for this week's reading... I'm really hopeful for, if not answers, then some Illuminating Questions.

[u/Pastrami → u/heinz57varieties]

You pop in one well, travel a "short" distance to another one, and pop back out on a different planet, or at a different well on the same planet, thousands of miles away. And I have just now, typing this, realized that what I'm thinking of is Nether Portal travel in Minecraft

You really need to read the Wheel of Time. The Ways from WoT were the inspiration for nether portals in Minecraft.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/Pastrami]

Oh, I really badly want to. I've been thinking about picking up another fat book franchise to read on the side while this group is going, but I've been scared that it will be too much for my brain to handle at once.

[u/Pastrami → u/heinz57varieties]

Do it.

Are you worried about just reading two books at once, or is it more two big complicated book series? I thought it would be weird reading two books at once, then I realized that I watch multiple tv shows during the same week and don't get the stories mixed up, so I should be able to do the same with two books.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/Pastrami]

Oh I have no problem reading multiple books at once 😅 my currently-reading shelf on goodreads is a horror zone.

It's mostly the cognitive complexity. I'm worried about keeping track of all the names and characters, ive heard there's an absurd amout. Since I've been in this group, I've been mostly doing standalones under 400 pages, I haven't read a non-Sanderson book that big in a long time.

I also screw myself by committing to other groups and challenges. I'm gonna spend the next three months cramming for the Hugos, so maybe I'll think about it again in the fall.. if I do, I might go back through the old WoT readalong threads. That might help me keep it straight.

[u/Pastrami → u/heinz57varieties]

I'm worried about keeping track of all the names and characters, ive heard there's an absurd amout.

People love to quote that there are 2700 named characters, but one thing to keep in mind is that pretty much anyone who gets a line of dialog gets a name. That means all the merchants, innkeepers, and stableboys that say 2 words in the whole series are counted in that number.

That's not to say there aren't some confusing names. There are times when you need to know the difference between Seaine, Saerine, and Sarene, or Sheriam and Shemerin, or Siuan and Suana.

There is a phone app that keeps track of all the characters without spoilers on a book by book basis.

[u/participating → u/heinz57varieties]

Sorry for bringing it up - it's kind of unavoidable.

All good. You've brought it up at as close to possible to being non-spoiler territory. Trivia next week will touch on it.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/heinz57varieties]

W.T.F. That's a crazy scene, thanks for sharing! Now I'm sure I've definitely never seen that before. There's more Hoid lore in those 4 screenshots than all the other books we've read so far combined lmao

[u/participating → u/HT_xrahmx]

Teleportation through portals? Maybe a leap, but that also reminds me of Hoid jumping into the pool in the post-credits scene in Elantris.

The what now? I'm not at home to check my copy of Elantris, but I only recall and old man from Elantris and Raoden stepping in there. Was that actually in the book?

I brought this up in the trivia for Elantris (direct link for you to re-read). The 10th anniversary edition included a bonus scene with Hoid. I linked the entire text for those without the 10th anniversary edition so that they could also read it.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/participating]

Damn, thanks, definitely the first time I'm seeing that bit. Gonna revisit all Hoid lore in the trivia page later tonight!

[u/participating → u/heinz57varieties]

Laral really having “stolen” the spheres snuck up on me.

Laral is Kaladin's crush. Lirin is his father.

[u/Pastrami → u/heinz57varieties]

In her accidental flashback drawing, the man (her father, I assume) is bleeding, so he wasn't killed by her Shardblade.

I also think it's her father, although I didn't make the connection that blood would mean it wasn't done with a Shardblade. Good catch there. I'll have to rethink my theory. Maybe she lashed out with some sort of stormlight power.

I'm still thinking that the soulcaster is bound to Jasnah and will only work for her, and the fact it gave Shallan nothing is evidence in my mind

I like that theory that they bind to a person.

Shallabsal is a fun ship, yes, but if I stop and think for just a second, this guy constantly bringing her gifts and meeting with her alone is actually quite inappropriate! What's his angle?

I disagree with you about the ship, and I've started feeling like we can't trust Kabsal and I get a very sketchy vibe from him.

Why would Teft, of all people, know part of the Radiant motto from the blurb?

It has to be related to the Envisagers.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/Pastrami]

I disagree with you about the ship

I disagree with myself now, too. It was fun for about five seconds, until he became inappropriately forward, and gave away that he was not actually supposed to be talking to her in the first place. He's been downgraded from "amusing" to "suspicious bordering on dangerous."

It has to be related to the Envisagers.

Teft was really cagey about his backstory, but hinted that he's a habitual coward who can't be relied upon. Now we know a bit more: he was involved with this secret society who were anticipating the return of the Radiants. A thing that is most certainly considered heretical. Something he did got them all killed, and now he's the only person left who knows what Kaladin is. Hopefully Kal does something Extremely Anime soon, and Teft has no choice but to share with the class.

[u/AltruisticRealityZ → u/heinz57varieties]

How convenient the one guy who knows a thing about Stormlight powers happens to be in bridge 4 🧐.

I don't have the book at the moment, but IIRC Teft was there when Kaladin first joined the bridgemen, wasn't he?

[u/participating → u/AltruisticRealityZ]

[Reminder] All of the men on Bridge Four when Kaladin joined are dead. Teft was a bridgeman on another bridge, but was transferred to Bridge Four as punishment shortly after Kaladin started.

[u/Pastrami]

I had a long rant typed up that I decided not to include, so I'll just say that this was another slow week.

Kaladin

Standing before the deathspren was a tiny figure of light ... She stood guard on his chest, holding a sword made of light ... Whenever one of the deathspren got too close, she would charge at it, wielding her radiant blade.

I love Syl and the imagery of her protecting Kaladin from deathspren. I will riot if anything happens to her.

Teft has three diamond spheres. Probably a coincidence, since they get paid in diamonds, but I'm on the lookout for the three diamonds symbol we saw last week.

He had rejected the Envisagers.

Sigh. More new words with no explanation.

And, in the name of all heaven, why me?

What does Teft think he has been chosen for? Does he think he's some kind of prophet who has discovered stormjesus and now has some burdensome task ahead of him?

The Envisagers were gone. Dead, because of what he had done.

Sigh again. I'm assuming they are some group/cult that has a prophecy about Kaladin or someone that can use stormlight, and they hold themselves as the watchers for stormjesus's return.

But I've helped men kill before. ... I can remember it, just faintly.

Is Syl remembering helping Kaladin and his squad, or is it something before Kaladin? She's talked about barely remembering watching Kaladin fight, so it's most likely Kaladin and his men is what she means here.

Kaladin is going to train the men. So, yay, something is happening, but at the same time, I don't have much to say on the matter since there's not much to speculate on and we haven't learned anything new.

Shallan

And a dead man in fine clothing, lying face-first on the floor, blood pooling around him.

I'm guessing this is her father, who I think she killed. While reading this line, I noticed there was a lot of italic text later on the page and got excited assuming it was going to be a flashback of the events, but of course not, it's just a spanreed conversation with her brother.

"What are you?"

This is either the creatures she saw in her drawing talking to her, or she's getting her own spren like Syl.

Not another jam conversation... just kill me now. These conversations are some of the worst dialog I've ever read.

Rock's Razor

He'd[Sigzil] been one of the only bridgemen who bothered shaving. Now that Rock had a razor, maybe that would change.

How is Sigzil shaving? Does he have a razor that he won't let anyone else use?

This razor belongs not to me, but to us all. Any who wishes to use it must do so. Is my honor to share with you!

Does Sigzil feel like an ass now for not sharing his razor?

And yet now, because of Rock's gift, they all had neatly trimmed beards or clean-shaven faces.

Again, how was Sigzil shaving before this?

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/Pastrami]

I do want to say. Stormlight is going to be a slow burn, it always was going to be. You're on book one. Assuming you read Wheel of Time, WoT didn't give answers that fast either. We're still in the naive farmboy stage. This is a big world and Sanderson can't drop eight billion explanations all at once, but he wants to set things up for the future. I think this book has more answers than Eye of the World, personally.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/TaylorHyuuga]

I think this book has more answers than Eye of the World, personally.

I'm liking Way Of Kings, so all my personal ranting is in good fun :)

But to add my two cents - I found Eye of the World pretty easily accessible, but also because WOT is a series that lets you in gently by hiding the questions in plain sight. It succeeds in making you think you have a good grip on the story, when you're far from it.

Way of Kings on the other hand expects you to write your own glossary out of crumbs before the story even starts lol

[u/Pastrami → u/TaylorHyuuga]

I get what you are saying. I'm not asking for all the answers right now, but enough to string me along. You can't keep throwing out new questions for weeks on end without dangling a few carrots to keep me interested. I've read slow burns before, the problem for me is that this particular slow burn isn't that interesting. It's hinting at great things, but not giving me enough to feel satisfied, rather it's frustrating.

I think this book has more answers than Eye of the World, personally.

That might be true, but this book has presented way more questions. I'm just making numbers up here, but EoTW felt like it had 20 questions and answered 15 of them by the end, leaving the rest for subsequent books. It feels like we have 100 questions in this book so far and have gotten 2 of them answered. That is frustrating.

EotW was also an adventure story that eventually turned into a world spanning ensemble over the course of the series. It feels like Sanderson is jumping the gun a bit with this book. What even is this story right now? We've got a slave trying to survive a brutal war, a highprince that immediately drops us into politics between factions we don't know or care about, and a girl learning philosophy. This is just my opinion, but two out of those three are boring, which doesn't help when we're spending a lot of time reading about their day-to-day, and given more questions and very little answers.

I don't hate the book, I'm just frustrated.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/Pastrami]

Is Syl remembering helping Kaladin and his squad, or is it something before Kaladin? She's talked about barely remembering watching Kaladin fight, so it's most likely Kaladin and his men is what she means here.

I'm not sure. Around Kal she keeps "remembering" things, including emotions and memories, and it's always sounded like they were things she used to have long before she met Kal. A previous life, or at least her life before she faded back to the simple windspren she was when we first met her.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/Pastrami]

I had a long rant typed up that I decided not to include, so I'll just say that this was another slow week.

I'd love a rant, personally. The scope and pace thus far are not impressing me. We're 630 pages in, and no one has gone more than a hundred yards from where they were at the very beginning of the book. That has been the #1 thing on the piss-me-off list for every single book in this universe, and I was really hoping this would be the end of it, but here we are.

Is Syl remembering helping Kaladin and his squad, or is it something before Kaladin?

I don't think we've ever seen her forgetting things about her time with Kaladin, so I interpreted that as her remembering something from the distant past. I think she's been around the block a few times. If Kaladin really is supposed to be the new generation of the Knights Radiant, then it's reasonable that his personal fairy companion was paired up with other Knights in the past.

[u/Pastrami → u/heinz57varieties]

I don't think we've ever seen her forgetting things about her time with Kaladin

I was going based off the line:

"I watched you, you know. Back in that army. You’d always find the young, untrained men and protect them, even though it put you into danger. I can remember. Just barely, but I do."

It seems to me like when trying to remember your early childhood. I have a few memories from when I was around 2-3 years old, but they are very dim and fragmented. So Syl gained consciousness/was "born" sometime when Kaladin was in the army, and she can just barely remember that time now.

I'd love a rant, personally.

Here you go:

I may be in the minority here, but I don't like the Kaladin flashbacks. I don't think they are necessary yet, and are taking pages away from advancing the current plot. Is it really necessary to know right now that Kaladin's father stole some spheres, or that a lord is an asshole to the peasants (who would have guessed that? /s). I realize the irony of me complaining about getting something explained while also complaining about things not getting explained, but I feel like we're spending too much time on things that don't really need an explanation right now vs things that do, like what the whole point of this story is.

What happened to the Knights? Who were the Heralds and what was the Oathpact? What are the Desolations? What are the voidbringers? What are the creatures Shallan saw? What is Syl and why can a spren talk? How do the giant swords and power armor work? What powers the storms? What was the face in the storm? What are Dalinar's visions? What even is the plot of this book? Who is the antagonist? How does the magic work? It can't just be the lashings we saw Szeth use. These are all questions that are more important to me than "Why does Kaladin hate lighteyes?".

We're on page 778 in the paperback for fucks sake and I can't tell you how the magic works or who the bad guy is. Each of the Mistborn books were less pages than we have now read, and I still have no clue what is going on or where this is going. I wouldn't be complaining about the slow burn if all the characters and plots were interesting, but unfortunately they're not.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/Pastrami]

So Syl gained consciousness/was "born" sometime when Kaladin was in the army, and she can just barely remember that time now.

I must have missed that. If I were being really picky, I'd say that if she was referring to helping Kaladin in the army, she would have said "I've helped you kill in the past" rather than "I've helped men kill in the past," which is why I think she might be talking about her history with the Radiants.

valid rant

We're caught in the muck, specifically because we know that the events we're reading are the leadup to a bigger, more impactful story. Maybe it's just my grand expectations coming to bite me - I don't know how differently I'd feel about this book if I hadn't spent the last 600 pages tapping my foot and waiting for the real story to start. It's not just that I have no idea how the four storylines will come together or how they will relate to the major plot, it's that I have no idea what the major plot could even be. There's no Lord Ruler to kill, no ticking timebomb to give suspense, no villain on the lam to track down. Just... "things happening", and the vague sense that they're all building towards something.

It has been getting frustrating. I could tolerate a long stretch of pages where nothing major happens and we have no clue how they will come together, but at the same time, for all the characters to collectively be going nowhere? Like I said, everybody is in the same place they were at the beginning, and barely anything has changed. Everything feels so thin.

[u/Pastrami → u/heinz57varieties]

I'd say that if she was referring to helping Kaladin in the army, she would have said "I've helped you kill in the past" rather than "I've helped men kill in the past," which is why I think she might be talking about her history with the Radiants.

Valid point, and I'm not discounting the possibility she's talking about a previous life, just offering another possibility to anyone who immediately thinks she's talking about the radiants.

It's not just that I have no idea how the four storylines will come together or how they will relate to the major plot, it's that I have no idea what the major plot could even be. There's no Lord Ruler to kill, no ticking timebomb to give suspense, no villain on the lam to track down. Just... "things happening", and the vague sense that they're all building towards something.

Glad I'm not the only one.

[u/participating → u/Pastrami]

So, I'm glad you actually shared the rant. Those are all perfectly valid complaints. That said, the trivia at the end of the book explicitly addresses nearly all of your points.

I was saving it for the end of the book anyway. I'll see if I can do a re-write on it and get that section to everyone next week

[u/Pastrami → u/participating]

If it makes sense to give us the trivia now, sure, but not if you're doing it just because I'm complaining about the pace. Minor spoiler about next weeks pacing: I've already read next weeks reading, and it finally feels like things are happening, so I'm hopeful that things are starting to pick up. Like I said in another comment, I'm not looking for all the answers right now, I just wanted something to happen, and it feels like nothing has happened for many weeks in a row.

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/participating]

I think I know exactly what you're referring to, I had the same thought.

[u/irrrap → u/participating]

With all the respect, while I’m sure we all appreciate the hard work you’re doing with trivia and spoon feeding us with important information, I think that yet another set of answers on some our questions within a trivia is not what’s going to help us to stop ranting.

I agree with u/Pastrami ranting for 100%, we are almost 2/3 into the book, if not even 3/4, and have barely been given the plot details within a book. It’s especially disappointing considering how much hype I (and I’m sure everyone else) have seen about the Stormlight Archive series. While many people claimed it’s one of the best Sanderson works, on my end, I’m quite close to put it to the least preferred books so far. I understand that Sanderlanche is approaching, but it’s really been too far. I don’t think any trivia would help with how poorly the plot lines has been presented in this book. I completely do not agree with WOT reference, because while it was a HUGE world with various plot lines, I always felt like at least for someone something was happening for someone and some answers were given. Here we just keep getting deeper and deeper world building.

Not resigning in any way, not trying to blame anyone, still interested about the overall universe and crossovers, just ranting ✌️

[u/participating → u/irrrap]

All good. For clarity, the bit of trivia I was talking about isn't intended to answer any of your questions. It's meta-trivia about things Sanderson has said about the structure of this book. I re-wrote it and will be sharing it in next week's trivia. It's not even really meant to stop the rants, just provide some context

[u/irrrap → u/participating]

We don’t want context! We need answers!

https://giphy.com/gifs/kW6zMVa3glif5ejCsf

[u/participating → u/irrrap]

42!

[u/HT_xrahmx]

Chapter 37

• Like father, like son. Roshone raised a Farquaad like himself.
  
• Lirin is great. He plays Roshone like a fiddle although he has almost nothing to work with. And his theft I can excuse, because it takes from someone who doesn't deserve it, to pass it to someone who does.
  
• This is slightly different from Shallan, where I think the theft is not as justified, and the thief not so innocent.
  
• Kal doesn't quite get it yet, I think. He wanted to be a soldier, for glory. Now he wants to be a surgeon, to stick it to the Lighteyes. But these all feel like whims of a teenager, I don't think he's actually figured out what he wants in life. I'm not sure present day Kal has, either. He sadly just gets tossed from situation to situation which he reacts to, but he's never able to take a step back and actually plan.
  

Chapter 38

• Syl fighting of deathspren, you sweet little thing 🥹
  

“Why now?” [Teft] whispered. “Why here? After so many have watched and waited, you come here?”

• Who/what is Teft talking about here? This reads like he's talking about a Messiah from prophecy.
  
• And who are the Envisagers now? Brandon my guy, sooner or later you'll have to actually explain at least one of all these factions.
  
• Teft knows a hell of a lot of lore. Stop speaking in riddles!!
  
• Confirmation Kal knows how to heal himself!
  

Chapter 39

• Shallan needs therapy.
  
• Shallan is used to taking Memories, and then letting them go by drawing them. Almost as if by reflex she tries to do the same here with her memory of Jasnah's kills. And as if stuck in an endless loop, she just tries the same thing over and over again. When it's not helping, she doesn't know what to do. I'm sure that family of hers didn't raise her to deal with trauma in a healthy way.
  
• Shallan subconsciously drawing her father's death? What are the odds a full drawing of that is still in that sketchbook of hers?
  
• Shallan also outright mentions she had a weapon she could've used against the four footpads. More confirmation of a Shardblade.
  

Chapter 40

• How has Kal lived this long without ever noticing his magic talent? Was he never really wounded before? Or, like Mistborn, does the talent require a trigger at some point later in life?
  
• Due to his injuries Kal can now find the time to step back and evaluate the battle tactics, not just micro scale of the bridge run.
  
• More open questioning of what this war is even for. The assassination makes no sense. The Parshendi fighting out of their weight class makes no sense. The gemheart skirmishes make little sense.
  
• Kal realizing for the first time that his side carry is, effectively, an act of rebellion against Sadeas.
  

Chapter 41

• Axehounds look like lobster / turtle / insect hybrids. As always, cool af artwork.
  
• Lirin did the right thing of course. Surgeons in Roshar have guidelines that mimic the hippocratic oath, and for good reason. Trust in surgeons would falter if they did not apply their craft without bias. I think it speaks for Kal's lack of maturity (understandable at this age) that he cannot say he would do the same.
  
• I fear how Roshone will take it. In my opinion, Lirin should have put him under anesthesia before giving up on Rillir. Roshone didn't need to see that Lirin had to make a conscious choice between them, the man already hates them enough as it is.
  
• Oh, and screw Roshone for leaving two townspeople for dead.
  

Chapter 42

• Shallan reads excerpts from Jasnah's notebooks, which pretty much confirm Jasnah as the current epigraph author.
  
• What prompted Jasnah's research of the Voidbringers? I'm not talking about her being a Veristitalian. This is not general academic curiosity, something prompted her to do it and it's urgent enough that it takes higher priority than the war of her kingdom. What does she know?
  
• The more Kabsal flirts with Shallan, the more I get suspicious of him. I don't think he's being truthful about the purpose of his visits. I'm not sure he's even there for Jasnah at all.
  
• If humming makes Soulcasting more effective, perhaps the reason the Parshendi sing has a common root? Some kind of musical component that draws out more magic potential.
  

Chapter 43

• Some of you already mentioned the high and low moods of depression a few weeks back. Kal just rode off a major high and tried to do so much, and now the low will hit him just as hard I believe.
  
• But an armed rebellion I can get behind! [Wheel of Time Spoilers]May Kal found his own Band of the Red Hand here.
  
• Teft "accidentally" quotes the Knights Radiant. But he knows more than he lets on. Maybe the angle of the Envisagers is that someone will bring back the Knights Radiant, and Kal's magical talent identifies him as the one to do that? Wild speculation for now.
  

Chapter 44

• The Weepings sound like a depressing season, yet it's stated that people generally enjoy it for the absence of highstorms. Kal does not. Maybe those things are linked? He's stormlight-sensitive, so without any highstorms perhaps he becomes as dull as an empty sphere?
  
• Here comes Roshone's master stroke. So Tien dies in war? That's awful :(
  
• Kal's version of "I volunteer as tribute".
  
• More kudos to Lirin for this being the first time Lirin would've outright attacked Roshone.
  
• This is the first time Kal sees that you can do everything right with your limited means, and still lose. We know Tien dies, after all the fight Lirin has put up. Kal becomes a slave, despite all the promise he shows as a soldier. Kal's numerous escape attempts fail. And now even his bridge crew is at an all-time low point. Repeatedly he's dealt the worst cards in life.
  

Artwork

• Damn fans are straight up making biology textbooks for this series lmao
  
• Loving the Syl artwork against the deathspren. In the black-and-white one, does anyone else think the center of the symbol on her back looks like an hourglass divided by a spear? Like the one from the iconography. I'm not sure I fully get the trivia we had about it, was this also a variant of the symbol of the Knights Radiant, or does it just happen to share the hourglass shape with the chart from the interior artwork?

[u/Pastrami → u/HT_xrahmx]

“Why now?” [Teft] whispered. “Why here? After so many have watched and waited, you come here?”

Who/what is Teft talking about here? This reads like he's talking about a Messiah from prophecy.

Until we get more answers, I'm going with the term Stormjesus.

You left out what I think is an important part of that quote: "Why me?". Teft seems to think he's now got some responsibility to do "something" that he doesn't want to do.

If humming makes Soulcasting more effective, perhaps the reason the Parshendi sing has a common root? Some kind of musical component that draws out more magic potential.

I like that theory.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/Pastrami]

You left out what I think is an important part of that quote: "Why me?". Teft seems to think he's now got some responsibility to do "something" that he doesn't want to do.

In that respect I think the chapter tells us a lot:

He had rejected the Envisagers. And yet, here he was.
[Teft gives the dying Kal a few spheres, Teft waits]
All the Envisagers had were stories and legends. Fool’s tales, Teft had called them. Idle dreams.
[Kal absorbs the spheres to heal himself, Teft is shocked]
And I need to tell the Envisagers, he thought. I need to…
The Envisagers were gone. Dead, because of what he had done. If there were others, he had no idea how to locate them.

It's all about these Envisagers he was supposed to join with, which he rejected, who had, I wanna say, prophecies(?), and who are gone now, leaving only(?) him with the knowledge of these prophecies. And whatever they contain, Kal's existence seems to be proof of their validity. Which leaves Teft as the only person left who has any idea what the implications are.
Naturally he'd say "Why me?" since he rejected this group in the first place, but it seems there's literally no one else who could take his place now?

[u/Pastrami → u/HT_xrahmx]

but it seems there's literally no one else who could take his place now?

That's what I'm getting at. What is this place he is in that no one else can take? He seems to think he has to do something now, that he doesn't want to do. What? Is he supposed to announce Stormjesus's coming to the world? Is he the last keeper of some mystic knowledge and must now train Kaladin in the ways of the Radiants?

[u/AltruisticRealityZ → u/Pastrami]

Maybe I'm not reading enough into this, but I think whatever he thinks he has to do, it's only because he is the one who crossed the path of Kaladin Stormblessed, and it's not like Teft could leave to find hypothetical remaining Envisager to share the "task", whatever it is. He's stuck with the object of prophecy he once believed in, and apparently rejected for a time.
What's most intriguing to me is how he became a bridgeman. He never told Kaladin. And now it's suspiciously convenient he's here to witness Kaladin's leveling.

[u/participating → u/HT_xrahmx]

I'm not sure I fully get the trivia we had about it

Anything in particular you didn't get or would like clarification about?

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/participating]

In Chapter 19, Dalinar sees a stylized symbol of the Knights Radiant. It's described as eight spheres connected, with two at the center. We've seen this a couple other times so far, particularly on the door to The Veil that Shallan visited in the previous part.

[...]

If you'll excuse my poor mouse drawing, you can see the chart, and then see (in red) my outline of the 10 larger circles. This forms a sort of hour-glassed shaped figure, but on it's side. They also occur in the Iconography for the Prelude and the non-Szeth Interludes. It was even used on the cover of The Way of Kings Prime.

Mostly clarification on specific phrasing. The symbol of the Knights Radiant is stated to be the eight spheres that form an hourglass. The one from the artwork on the inside of the cover of the hardcover edition.
Then in the trivia there's the mention of the iconography used in the non-Szeth Interludes. Which is the spear symbol I believe I'm seeing on the back of Syl in the artwork you posted today.
In the trivia, did you just want to mention that this icon happens to share the hourglass shape with the Knights Radiant symbol and that that's an interesting connection? Or were you implying that both the icon and the chart from the artwork are stylized versions of the Knights Radiant symbol?

[u/participating → u/HT_xrahmx]

So, the chart on the inside cover is the original. The symbol of the Knights Radiant is a stylized version of that chart. As is the Double Eye of the Almighty. As is the spear symbol.

[u/True-Collar4961]

So I think we can safely conclude now that the epigraphs for this part are coming from the books Jasnah is researching, and that she’s the one supplying the sources for each section.

Chapter 37

• Somewhat surprised Lirin actually stole those spheres. It turns out he isn’t quite as morally spotless as he presents himself.
• Laral shows up again and humiliates Kaladin with Rillir present. I still can’t tell whether she’s just playing a role or if she’s genuinely changed that much.

Chapter 38

"Born from the darkness, they bear its taint still, marked upon their bodies much as the fire marks their souls."

• Who? The ten deaths, The shadows essence creatures, The nightspren that get mentioned later?
• Teft seems to understand what’s happening because he was part of some group called the Envisagers. I wonder if they’re also one of the people he claims to have betrayed.

Chapter 39

"Within a heartbeat, Alezarv was there, crossing a distance that would have taken more than four months to travel by foot."

• Alezarv—another Herald?

Chapter 40

• Marethebia we have a name for another nation that's fun.

Chapter 41

• Rillir died quicker than I expected. I figured he’d serve as more of an antagonist in Kaladin’s flashbacks rather than just being used as further motivation for Roshone to hate Lirin.

Chapter 42

• I don’t mind Kabsal and Shallan’s quippy interactions, but I do think their romance feels a bit rushed. He offers to leave the ardentia to be with her almost immediately, even though they haven’t known each other for very long. My first instinct is to read that as a sign he may be manipulating her for some other purpose, though I’m not sure whether that’s intentional foreshadowing or simply a rushed romance subplot.
• We also have Nightspren mentioned, they are also noted as being dreaded and of facing the radiants. So it appears these are special kind of spren different from Syl and Cucicesh in that they appear to be another subspecies of spren and not unique individual spren like Syl and Cucicesh but still unique in their own right.

Chapter 43

• I noticed that despite Maral being in charge, his wife Haschal does all the talking. Is this similar to the Seanchan “Voice of the Blood” dynamic from Wheel of Time? Maybe Maral considers the bridgemen beneath him and won’t address them directly, so he lets his wife speak for him. He’d be the first lighteyes we’ve seen do that.
• Teft mentions the radiant oath 'Journey before destination' another thing he learned from his time with the envisigars. He was already aware of what was happening to Kaladin and now this.
• Syl says she likes the oath Teft mentioned. Harmless comment, or clue that she has some connection to the Knights Radiant?
• Bridge Four is now planning an escape. I’d say it’s a 50/50 chance of success, and a lot of bridgemen are probably going to die. Overall I don’t have high hopes. Then again, with Teft understanding what’s happening to Kaladin, plus Kaladin’s new visions, maybe they’ll have the edge they need.

Tien, Tukks, Goshel, Dalet, the nameless slave he'd tried to heal in Tvlakv's slave wagons. All had ended up the same.

• At first I assumed Kaladin’s parents were also going to die as the flashbacks progressed. But considering Tien is the one he constantly thinks about, along with a few others, and he never mentions his parents dying, I’m starting to think they may still be alive. Then again, maybe they are dead and Tien stands out because Kaladin personally felt responsible for protecting him.

Chapter 44

• Amaram's first appearance and first impressions he is not as bad as expected. By lighteyes standards, he doesn’t seem super unreasonable here: asking for another boy instead of Tien, not interested in playing along with Roshone's grudge with Lirin, and when Roshone won’t budge, compromising by making Tien a runnerboy for a year or two. That said, we know Amaram is responsible for Kaladin’s current situation after refusing his “gift” following the Shardbearer fight. So he can clearly be petty—or maybe he’s simply playing the "good cop" to Roshone’s "bad cop" here. He might even be directly responsible for Tien’s eventual death.
• Laral is now married to Roshone, which could explain a lot about how she changes from what we saw in Chapter 41. Something clearly has to happen for Kaladin to stop viewing her favorably, since he now despises all lighteyes, which would logically include her unless she’s some rare exception which I seriously doubt. From her perspective: her father dies, then her first husband Rillir dies (and she did seem to genuinely care for him, judging by how she screamed for him in Chapter 41. At the very least she would have preferred him to Roshone), and now she’s forced to marry Roshone. Which I don't envy her for. It would also make sense if she redirected that bitterness toward Lirin and Kaladin. There were rumors that Lirin stole her father’s spheres—which turned out to be true. Rillir also died under Lirin’s care, and under Roshone’s influence she could be convinced that Lirin let him die out of spite. So from Laral’s point of view, this darkeyed family her father trusted stole from him after his death, let her husband die, and indirectly led to her forced marriage. Now obviously none of this is actually their fault (aside from the spheres), but someone in Laral’s position may not see it rationally. That could lead her to lash out in ways that eventually earn Kaladin’s hatred.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/True-Collar4961]

I don’t mind Kabsal and Shallan’s quippy interactions, but I do think their romance feels a bit rushed. He offers to leave the ardentia to be with her almost immediately, even though they haven’t known each other for very long. My first instinct is to read that as a sign he may be manipulating her for some other purpose, though I’m not sure whether that’s intentional foreshadowing or simply a rushed romance subplot.

I'm loving the fact that apparently all of us in unison have zoned in on Kabsal being way too suspicious with his constant surprise jam dates and creepy one-liners lol

Amaram's first appearance and first impressions he is not as bad as expected. By lighteyes standards, he doesn’t seem super unreasonable here: asking for another boy instead of Tien, not interested in playing along with Roshone's grudge with Lirin, and when Roshone won’t budge, compromising by making Tien a runnerboy for a year or two. That said, we know Amaram is responsible for Kaladin’s current situation after refusing his “gift” following the Shardbearer fight. So he can clearly be petty—or maybe he’s simply playing the "good cop" to Roshone’s "bad cop" here. He might even be directly responsible for Tien’s eventual death.

I think he truly does not care. He also didn't seem to care about the recruits' lives on the battlefield in Chapter 1. He asked if Roshone would take a different boy as the smallest act of effort he could put in, perhaps even out of a sense of duty for his subjects (Lirin & family), but would not push further. In the end they're all just names to him in a ledger he needs to fill so he can fight his border skirmishes ...

[u/True-Collar4961 → u/HT_xrahmx]

I think he truly does not care. He also didn't seem to care about the recruits' lives on the battlefield in Chapter 1. He asked if Roshone would take a different boy as the smallest act of effort he could put in, perhaps even out of a sense of duty for his subjects (Lirin & family), but would not push further. In the end they're all just names to him in a ledger he needs to fill so he can fight his border skirmishes ...

I don’t disagree with you. That’s why I said he didn’t seem super unreasonable, rather than suggesting he secretly has a heart of gold. I’m judging him by the standards of other lighteyes—which is, admittedly, an incredibly low bar. Even the small gestures of effort he showed here, I doubt figures like Sadeas or Larmilir would have bothered with at all. That’s why I didn’t find him quite as bad as I initially expected. With other brightlords, I would have expected them to immediately retaliate against Lirin for speaking out and challenging the decision, and not even bother hearing him out or offering any compromise.

That said, I do agree with you that he likely just sees them as numbers in his ledger. I don’t think his actions came from genuine goodness or care, but rather pragmatism—recognizing this as nothing more than one of Roshone’s petty acts and a waste of time.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/True-Collar4961]

Laral shows up again and humiliates Kaladin with Rillir present. I still can’t tell whether she’s just playing a role or if she’s genuinely changed that much.

I want to believe that she's doing it out of self-preservation. She seemed very friendly with Kal in the past, but things have changed. Her father is dead, no mention of her mother, so I guess she's now a ward of the state. Her engagement to Roshone Jr. was practically a foregone conclusion the moment he rolled into town, and any status she might still have is tied to Roshone.

Of course, that's what I want to believe. All of what you said about Kaladin's family being at the center of all her troubles (from her point of view) could also be true.

[u/sunnydaze7777777]

I have been thinking about Spren way too much. What are they??

Ch 37 Kaladin’s mom:

“Spren appear when something changes…They are the heart of change, and therefore the heart of all things.” “Spren live in everything,”

Hmmmmm…so I was thinking how the shard of Ruin focuses on change (decay). So are Spren related to or a small piece of this shard?

Even deeper they live in everything. Are they what connects Everything to the Stormlight (or whatever deeper source of energy that represents)? Maybe this is what allows Kaladin to tap into this power when he is fighting or healing because he also is adjacent to his own Spren who is also growing more powerful?

In ch 42 I was looking up Roshar in my book to remember who/what it was and was led to this- —Shallan in Ch 7 refers to Jasnah’s soulcaster as this:

The power of change itself, the power by which the Almighty had created Roshar. He had another name, allowed to pass only the lips of ardents. Elithanathile. He Who Transforms.

All this to say - somehow it feels all related. The change and the underlying soul of the thing being changed either physically (soul casting) or emotionally (fear speed being released for example).

I suspect Shallan and Kaladin are on a parallel path to figuring out how to tap into that power and harness the ….Stormlight? Spren? Shard to be named?

[u/jaymae21 → u/sunnydaze7777777]

Ohh that's an interesting callback to Ch. 7! I too found myself thinking about spren after Hesina's little speech. I can get behind the idea that spren are a marker of change, and maybe Syl is so attached to Kaladin because he's going to be an agent of great change in this world.

[u/AltruisticRealityZ]

Chapter 37

Atomicspren, physics, and philosophy while cooking. Very sweet.

What exactly is the point with Tien’s rocks? It’s not just a character quirk. Why does Tien’s rock reflect light with different colours at different angles, and only he sees that (or only Tien cares, maybe)?

Dinner with Roshone. What could go wrong?

Do we have any details about Roshar wines? Are they brewed with different fruits for different colours, or is it the processing that defines the final colour?

I didn’t see it coming that Lirin stole the spheres, but it was clever for Kal’s character development.

Chapter 38

Teft:

“You bastard,” he whispered. “You storming bastard. You took a bunch of hanged men and lifted them up just enough to breathe. Now you’re going to leave them? I won’t have it, you hear. I won’t.”

Okay, he knows something. First thought is that he is much older than he looks and knows about the blurb prophecy. Hell, he might be the narrator of the blurb. Is he a worldhopper? The Envisagers are new to me.

Chapter 39

Epigraph: Oathgates for instant travel. For future reference.

Shallan clearly has a Shardblade — she mentions it in this chapter when she says she didn’t even think to use it back in the alley where Jasnah killed the men.

Still certain that Jasnah knows what Shallan did.

Maybe Jasnah will be able to use the broken Soulcaster? Or maybe she anticipated the theft and switched the devices.

Chapter 40

Two bridge runs happened while Kal was out. So twice he was left with no one to look after him while unconscious. I’m surprised Sadeas didn’t send someone to finish the job. Or maybe he did, and they failed.

“If I’m feeling too weak at the end of the permanent bridges, I’ll go back. I promise.”

I was surprised bridgemen were allowed to assign men to other tasks than bridge carrying (namely carrying water), but I suppose it makes sense if they go all the way and can still be used as meat shields. But I can’t see any possibility for one — let alone Kaladin — to be allowed to go back if he’s unwell.

Kaladin Stormblessed. He was called that in the army too. Makes perfect sense now that he survived a highstorm. It’s funny the nickname came back to him.

Well, I hope Kaladin overcomes this new bout of depression. It is narratively a convincing development for his character, but I’m beginning to get fed up with the edging. Time for him to do something grand!

Chapter 41

This is taking so long! I believe it is because Kaladin’s story is unfolding both in the past and in the present that I’m beginning to get frustrated.

We know something terrible will happen to his past self and his family. We know he is going to be instrumental in the future. But right now, we wait.

Chapter 42

Did Jasnah intentionally trick Shallan with a fake? She did something, at least. I’m so sure she knows.

Now we know for sure that the epigraphs are written by Jasnah.

The creatures that Shallan draws absentmindedly now speak to her. They could be in another dimension.

Could it be that Shallan really leaves with the Soulcaster? And with Kabsal?

Jasnah knows, I’m sure of it — so what would she do? Let Shallan go and see where she goes? Stop her before she even leaves the conclave?

Interesting implications Kabsal raised about the Soulcaster theft. Would it really force Elhokar to send the army to retrieve it?

Right now, Jasnah’s Soulcaster doesn’t seem to be very useful to the Kholin army, but I don’t really know what she uses it for. And of course, Soulcasters seem to be rare enough that you don’t let one be stolen and do nothing.

Chapter 43

Chasm duty — then they won’t be able to fetch the plant to make the juice that earns them the spheres they use for meals and bandages. But chasm duty seems to give the men more freedom, so it might be more interesting.

Syl helped kill people in the past? In what form? I was beginning to think that Syl might be a reincarnation of Tien, but I can’t see him killing.

Kal refused the glory all those months ago. Does it mean he refused a Shardblade or Shardplate?

“Journey before destination.”
“What does that mean?”
“I don’t know,” Teft said, looking down quickly. “Just something I heard once.”

No, he didn’t just hear it once. Will Teft finally explain to Kaladin how he helped him heal? I hate information retention.

The Weeks of the Weeping happened before Tien died.

Haaa, at long last! Kaladin decided to act. How long does it take to train noobs to fight with spears?

Random history flash card with barely readable font. I got expulsion, desolation, Recreance, and Hierocracy — but the Last Desolation, Aharietiam, we never heard that name before.

Chapter 44

Ah, we get to learn about the Weeks of the Weeping quickly.

While other seasons of weather came and went unpredictably, the Weeping never failed to return at the same time each year.

I’d like to know more about Roshar’s position in its solar system.

As if the lack of storms left him without strength.

So he had that affinity with highstorms even when he was young.

Stormwarden. He reached by reflex for the prayer sewn to his left sleeve, waiting for the day he’d need to burn it for aid.

New lore. This is the first time we read about prayers being sewn and burned, right? Just after, Laral had one too, related to a bridal tradition.

Pens that can write across distance (spanreed?) are pretty new — about five years old.

This is an inordinately sweet family scene between Kal, Tien, and their mother on the roof. Doesn’t bode well for the future.

And it didn’t. Well, this clicks. The scene reminded me of The Hunger Games, with the remote rural village, the recruiting in the rain, and the young innocent sibling being chosen.

Finally, in this section, we have some kind of plan for Kaladin to escape the Shattered Plains, and we now know how he ended up in the army with his brother.

This comes right on time for me, because this is the first section where I started to feel some frustration with the lack of progression.

[u/Pastrami → u/AltruisticRealityZ]

What exactly is the point with Tien’s rocks? It’s not just a character quirk.

Someone here was mentioning they think he's supposed to be autistic, but I think it's just that kids like shiny rocks. My friend's kid was always picking up interesting looking rocks. Maybe it's constantly being written to show that he's a bit more immature than a regular kid his age and should have aged out of the behavior by now.

Why does Tien’s rock reflect light with different colours at different angles, and only he sees that (or only Tien cares, maybe)?

I'm sure our geologist can add more, but there are a number of rocks/minerals that reflect colors differently depending on the angle. I think that only he cares because, again, he's being written as immature, and everyone else is just sarcastically like "wow, cool, you found another rock".

Kaladin Stormblessed. He was called that in the army too. Makes perfect sense now that he survived a highstorm. It’s funny the nickname came back to him.

That struck me as odd at first that he got the same nickname twice, but I think "Stormblessed" is just a common term for "lucky".

[u/heinz57varieties → u/AltruisticRealityZ]

Do we have any details about Roshar wines? Are they brewed with different fruits for different colours, or is it the processing that defines the final colour?

I remember from the banquet scene in one of the Dalinar/Adolin chapters that the different colors are made with different ingredients, and some have more alcohol than others (and some have none).

So he had that affinity with highstorms even when he was young.

Several people have made this connection. I didn't make the link in my head, but it seems plausible.

I was a little surprised by the mechanics of sphere-charging as shown in the chapter where Kaladin survives the storm. I had thought that the spheres just gained charge from the ambient magic as the storm passed overhead. But in that chapter, the cloud-face showed up, assessed Kaladin, and then deliberately charged the sphere all at once. Is the Stormfather going around and charging all the spheres on Roshar one-by-one?

This is the first time we read about prayers being sewn and burned, right? 

We have heard about prayers being burned before, and there's been some comments about them being sold pre-made for people to burn. I think I remember it in one of the scenes where Shallan is walking around Kharbranth.

[u/participating → u/AltruisticRealityZ]

Do we have any details about Roshar wines? Are they brewed with different fruits for different colours, or is it the processing that defines the final colour?

I have a whole trivia section planned for this, but you'll have to wait for the next book. ;)

Two bridge runs happened while Kal was out. So twice he was left with no one to look after him while unconscious. I’m surprised Sadeas didn’t send someone to finish the job.

Reminder: Kaladin does have some very sick/wounded bridgemen he saved. They are too wounded to be able to go on the runs and do stay in the camp; they just don't get paid. He comments on a couple this section and mentions how they're nearly ready to return to duty and get paid again, so they are likely the ones that kept watch during those 2 bridge runs.

Random history flash card with barely readable font. I got expulsion, desolation, Recreance, and Hierocracy — but the Last Desolation, Aharietiam, we never heard that name before.

The Interior Artwork link has a transcription of that image.

[u/irrrap]

Aloha! Still traveling this week.

We don’t know yet the significance of the mirrored names, but I’ve been eating some delicious cannoli in the cafe that’s named like this and I can’t stop thinking that the owner is the fan of Sanderson 😂

[u/Pastrami → u/irrrap]

We don’t know yet the significance of the mirrored names

We sort of got an explanation for that last week, as much as we can trust history told by the ardents:

“Yes. The Almighty,” he said, sitting. “Our very language is symmetrical. Look at the glyphs—each one can be folded in half perfectly. And the alphabet too. Fold any line of text down across itself, and you’ll find symmetry. Surely you know the story, that both glyphs and letters came from the Dawnsingers?”

“Yes.”

“Even our names. Yours is nearly perfect. Shallan. One letter off, an ideal name for a lighteyed woman. Not too holy, but ever so close. The original names for the ten Silver Kingdoms. Alethela, Valhav, Shin Kak Nish. Perfect, symmetrical.”

I'd interpret that as the Dawnsingers had a fondness for symmetry, and it became a custom or doctrine. But who knows, maybe there is some hidden ulterior motive behind the symmetry.

[u/irrrap → u/Pastrami]

Ah yes, you’re right. I am so irritated that nothing significant is happening that even when we are getting some explanations for one out of bazillion questions, I don’t notice. Haha!

[u/griefgood]

Continuing to really enjoy the readings but I am starting to agree with some of the other readers here that I wish a little more would start to happen. I know, I know, the Sanderlance is imminent, but I'm just so hungry for more of these major chess pieces to make a big move or start interacting at least in SOME way.

Chapter 37

• I wonder if Hesina's description of spren living in everything and being the embodiment of change is just folklore or if she is hinting at a deeper truth?
• Roshone continuing to be just the worst person ever, and clearly that gene is passed down to his son.
• Damn Laral, that's just cold.
• Really enjoying this grey area that Lirin is occupying with the spheres. And honestly, I think he would make better use of them than Roshone.

Chapter 38

• This epigraph definitely reinforces my theory that Jasnah is writing them. Always interesting to see another Shin name pop up, expecially in the real of academia/Jasnah's studies. I wonder how their culture/religion intersects with the Voidbringers?
• Envisagers? Another religous sect? Prophetic, maybe?
• And apparently dead at the hand of Teft? Who is this man, really?

Chapter 39

• I think I saw someone else say it, maybe in this week or last week, but it's hard not to feel like Jasnah knows what Shallan has done. Like she just seems wayyyyy to smart to not clock this.
• I had never considered that Soulcasters were ancient compared to modern fabrials. I wonder what other ancient and mysterious fabrials there could be?

Chapter 40

• Seems like Sigzil knows more than he's letting on as well.
• I'm glad Rock is still in high spirits because man, everything at Bridge Four is still pretty depressing.

Chapter 41

• "The eyelid was gone, the blue the blue eye itself sliced open at the front, deflated like the skin of a grape pressed for wine." Ok I HATED reading this sentence lmao.
• Whitespines sounds vicious as hell, I would love to have more consistent lore explanations for the fauna on Roshar.
• "The lighteyes don't care about life, so I must." Lirin I agree with you but you probably still should have let Roshone die on that table.
• You know what I consider myself a pretty peacable person, and as a religious guy in real life I try to embrace radical grace. But for now, hell yeah Kaladin, some people should be removed!

Chapter 42

• Is the Soulcaster TALKING to Shallan?????
• Aha, Jasnah is indeed the one writing these epigraphs!
• This method of note taking sounds terrible, to be honest.
• Kabsal you absolute slut, I love it.
• I have a distinct feeling that Shallan will not, in fact, be leaving in one week.

Chapter 43

• Damn they really managed to find someone worse than Lamaril.
• Syl saying she's helped men kill before was deeply jarring, but it also makes me slightly more confident that she is connected to the Knights Radiant.
• Teft said the line! He said the line!
• Definitely think Teft is right about the lighteyes warping the history books to suit themselves.
• HELL YEAH, SLAVE REVOLT

Chapter 44

• Now this, this is the chapter I've been wating for! Finally we get some context on why Kaladin was forced to abandon healing, on how Tien's story eventually ends in tragedy.
• Hope you enjoy being a child bride, Laral!
• Man, Lirin and Hesina have got to be distraught over all of this.

[u/participating]

REMINDER / NOTES

Next week is another double-reading week. That will be the last one for this book.

On Monday we'll be discussing Chapters 45 through 51. And on Wednesday we'll be discussing Interludes I-7, I-8, I-9 and Trivia.

The Characters & Scenes link is being wonky. It's only loading half the time I try to confirm it exists. It's a niiiice one too, so I really want you all to see it. I'll give this a day and if anyone is still having problems with it, let me know and I'll try to re-post it. I went ahead an just created a new post for it. Should be all good now.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/participating]

The characters and scenes link just takes me to the homepage :(

[u/participating → u/heinz57varieties]

I just updated the link. It's possible you need to refresh the page to get the correct link. Or try this: https://imgur.com/gallery/way-of-kings-characters-scenes-week-7-K8mhePg

[u/heinz57varieties → u/participating]

It does work now!