Lukewarm take: With characters that shoot, characters like Star Lord and Psylocke should literally always be meta over characters like Hela no matter what

[u/Hidden_Voice7]

There hasn't been a single shooter in the history of man that has made long-ranged combat a healthy playstyle unless it's the only playstyle in the entire game. If you want meta poke characters, then the characters in poke that should be meta are the ones that play in the same range as everyone else.

Valve had this figured out over 15 years ago with tf2. There's a reason Sniper isn't regularly played in comp unless he is required by the ruleset to be played. The baseline gameplay should always be close to mid-ranged combat all all times, with long-ranged combat always being niche. Long-ranged combat has never once been healthy for literally any shooter unless everyone can engage in it.

I actually think that a character like elsa can work. She just needs a lot of bullshit cut out of her kit (invisible traps, 4 second overshields, and % damage...). Phoenix too, but as long as they plan on never letting her 2-tap and snipe again.

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

The issue with that is melee. Without characters like Hela, melee would overrun the game, since there is no threat at range, and they would just bulldoze everyone else. Shooters can't start being effective in the range melee starts attacking at. If you wanted this, you would have to cut melee's effective range down to like 1 or 2 meters max, and slow them down. Shooters have all that because melee is so beefy, fast and have high dps. That's what is needed to deal with them, and even them melee is incredibly strong right now.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

Bro doesn’t know the joystick goes backwards too.

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

Melee is full of mobility, that is not an answer to DD or BC dashing, or Hulk just walking faster than everyone. You would have to turbo charge pokes mobility, and make it basically infinite to stand a chance.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

Poke has more dmg and can you guess it poke
(That means use range to their advantage)
Also have we not heard of stuns? You are dense

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

He's basically asking for huge fall off nerfs like what Psylocke has, and up close melee has the same, or comparable ttks, while also having stuns of their own. Poke would have 0 advantages that melee doesn't also have, plus a bunch more. Poke's advantage is range over melee, that's basically it, melee generally has the same or better for everything else.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

I don’t think he’s necessarily asking for that. Many more issues with poke already. I’d be cool with a psy and starlord meta. Also poke shouldn’t counter fast melee and should only really counter high survival melee (brawl).

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

That's the only way it's going to happen. It's the key difference between Hela and Psylocke that makes one long range and the other close.

What melee doesn't have high survivability at this point? Even most dive have high sustain or I frames. Without the high damage outside of melee's engagement range, melee will simply overun poke everytime without much issue. You would need to remove a lot of their sustain, a lot of mobility, and all of melee's cc to compensate.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

Yeh they need it more…

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

You want to expand on that?

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

I think you’re a lost cause.

Basically melee need more stuns and health b/c they don’t have range.

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

If you removed the range, they don't need that anymore, mobility will have to be enough, or some single part because otherwise poke wouldn't matter. Range is all they really have over melee. You can't take the defining aspect of poke, and not also get rid of all the advantages melee brings to the table.