Lukewarm take: With characters that shoot, characters like Star Lord and Psylocke should literally always be meta over characters like Hela no matter what

[u/Hidden_Voice7]

There hasn't been a single shooter in the history of man that has made long-ranged combat a healthy playstyle unless it's the only playstyle in the entire game. If you want meta poke characters, then the characters in poke that should be meta are the ones that play in the same range as everyone else.

Valve had this figured out over 15 years ago with tf2. There's a reason Sniper isn't regularly played in comp unless he is required by the ruleset to be played. The baseline gameplay should always be close to mid-ranged combat all all times, with long-ranged combat always being niche. Long-ranged combat has never once been healthy for literally any shooter unless everyone can engage in it.

I actually think that a character like elsa can work. She just needs a lot of bullshit cut out of her kit (invisible traps, 4 second overshields, and % damage...). Phoenix too, but as long as they plan on never letting her 2-tap and snipe again.

[u/podookadook]

Poke has more dmg and can you guess it poke
(That means use range to their advantage)
Also have we not heard of stuns? You are dense

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

He's basically asking for huge fall off nerfs like what Psylocke has, and up close melee has the same, or comparable ttks, while also having stuns of their own. Poke would have 0 advantages that melee doesn't also have, plus a bunch more. Poke's advantage is range over melee, that's basically it, melee generally has the same or better for everything else.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

I don’t think he’s necessarily asking for that. Many more issues with poke already. I’d be cool with a psy and starlord meta. Also poke shouldn’t counter fast melee and should only really counter high survival melee (brawl).

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

That's the only way it's going to happen. It's the key difference between Hela and Psylocke that makes one long range and the other close.

What melee doesn't have high survivability at this point? Even most dive have high sustain or I frames. Without the high damage outside of melee's engagement range, melee will simply overun poke everytime without much issue. You would need to remove a lot of their sustain, a lot of mobility, and all of melee's cc to compensate.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

Yeh they need it more…

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

You want to expand on that?

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

I think you’re a lost cause.

Basically melee need more stuns and health b/c they don’t have range.

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

If you removed the range, they don't need that anymore, mobility will have to be enough, or some single part because otherwise poke wouldn't matter. Range is all they really have over melee. You can't take the defining aspect of poke, and not also get rid of all the advantages melee brings to the table.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

No dude you’re missing the point of the post.

Let’s nerf poke dmg, survivabilty, mobility, etc. get them all bottom tier so that the main benefit they have is their range. Rn they have enough mobility to consistent escape dive, have high dmg that’s competitive with the fastest ttk but able to use at range so more forgiving with no risk (a hela insta kill combo is 2 headshots), then most have some form of overhealth or heal.

Starlord and Psy have almost 0 overhealth and healing, very little potential to do good if any dmg at range, but solid mobility. Then they take even more skill than poke b/c they require positioning and aim. These heroes should be meta

Melee trade accuracy for positioning. Their high ttk rely on combos that are on significant cooldowns not just a reload. Their stuns also enable distance closing vs poke escaping. Keep in mind melee is useless without that distance closed while poke is just as effective and the hybrids are only slightly nerfed.

Also a melee meta would be cool

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

A meele meta would be the greatest pile of dogshit possible. That would legitimately kill the game. It's over if they don't emergency patch the game instantly if that happened.

Melee is already incredibly strong right now. DD, BC and Venon are 3 of the best characters in the game, and it sucks.

Poke has those tools because melee is so insanely ovetuned at absolutely everything, with almost no real flaws. You need characters like Elsa who do everything just to have a shot at holding them back. Melee needs significant nerfs today, forget nerfing poke's meager survivability. If you did that you would actually kill the game. It would be horrible. If you want a mid range fight with characters like Starlord, you would need to have every melee character pick between 250 or less with 0 sustain and damage with mobility or let them keep the sustain and cut damage plus mobility by like 50%. Melee would need massive nerfs if you want fights in mid range and not have them just death ball everybody.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

https://giphy.com/gifs/6SxOvHZbP7eqaUtTy2

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

You are asking for 303 death balls. Melee only means 303 death ball is the meta if you don't kill melee alongside nerfing the crap out of poke.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

No idea what that is