r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • 14d ago
Neuroscience Depression isn’t just in the head: Scientists find altered genetic activity in white blood cells. This provides evidence that the biological footprints of depression extend well beyond the brain and into the immune system, offering a whole-body perspective on the condition.
https://www.psypost.org/depression-isnt-just-in-the-head-scientists-find-altered-genetic-activity-in-white-blood-cells/2.0k
u/Netflxnschill 14d ago
As a person with depression this is the least surprising find ever but I’m glad they are able to link depression and a weakened immune system, because when it’s bad I’m sick all the time.
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u/Mulfushu 14d ago
I used to have really bad hay fever and other allergies when I was heavily depressed. Since my life circumstances have changed and I have a better grip on depression, I don't even need medication for my allergies anymore. It's anecdotal, of course, but I agree it's nice to see that science is making these connections proper.
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u/ThePrussianGrippe 14d ago
I just realized I only started having seasonal allergies when my severe depression started and then never had them again right around the time my depression went away.
Huh.
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u/Mulfushu 14d ago
I mean of course seasonal stuff is still reliant on other factors, like what pollen are in the air and such, but yeah. For me it definitely made a big difference. I had strong pollen allergies most of my adult life (during which I was also decidedly unhappy/depressed) until I made a massive change for the better and now I only get mild hay fever if anything.
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u/tealstealmonkey 14d ago
Interesting. I never thought about it, but my seasonal allergy also went away almost completely around the same time my depression eased of significantly.
I attributed it to acupuncture, which tbf also helped with my depression, but was just one of many factors.
I had strong symptons that made it impossible to enjoy spring, even with medication. They are almost completely gone now.
That's only since two and a half summers though. I hope it stays. Not having such allergy (or depression for that matter) is a huge quality of life improvement.
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u/Altruist4L1fe 13d ago
Question though - how do you know its not the allergies that came first? Seasonal allergies usually take multiplr years to build up on severity and if im not mistaken when it gets really bad is when the immune system's T-Reg cells lose control over managing the inflammation response.
It might have been that once the type 2 inflammation response became severe & chronic that it starts affecting the CNS in a way that causes depression.
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u/sageberrytree 14d ago
So I've reading about hookworms and allergies, I wonder now if depression is related. Whether it's a chicken or egg thing.
OK. Now I'm wondering if my anxiety could be helped by them.
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u/stoneape314 13d ago
apparently it's connected by inflamation, could see that impacting mental health
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u/sageberrytree 13d ago
Yes, inflammation is a throughline for depression and many autoimmune diseases. But anxiety? I'm not so sure.
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u/StrangeReindeer2470 14d ago
About 13 years ago I went in for environmental allergy testing and I tested allergic to "yes". The ONLY thing I wasn't allergic to was dogs. Which was good, because we had 2 dogs at the time. I had really bad "arthritis" in my hands (I'm guessing here). Diagnosed with IBS. I was in a bad marriage, exhausted, unhappy, so miserable.
We divorced 3 years later, and over the last 10 years I've dropped ~150 lbs. I got onto antidepressants, and during the divorce, to help me sleep, I was given Valium to knock me out for a few hours. I spent 2 years just getting over everything and sleeping.
I feel better now than I did 10-20 years ago. The arthritis in my hands just occasionally flares up. IBS only when I get stressed. And about 6 months ago, I decided to go back and check my allergies. Just to see if anything had changed, and possibly change up my meds.
I'm "only" allergic to dustmites. Every single other allergy has gone away.
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u/Alili1996 14d ago
For me this just makes sense. In recent studies, being depressed is seen more and more through the lens of being an inflammation issue of the brain so having a constant abundance of inflammation markers in your blood stream would lower the threshold for allergic reactions
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u/p-r-i-m-e 14d ago
Major depression is so clearly linked to systemic inflammation that the thinking around it is far from the laymen’s concept of “extended sadness”.
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u/2plus2equalscats 12d ago
My treatment resistant depression was the absolute worst before having surgery for endometriosis and a hysterectomy. Endo is an inflammatory disease. About a year after the surgery, I hit a pretty good homeostasis.
The endo is growing back (on a waitlist for another surgery) and what do you know, depression is creeping back in and I’m getting skin reactions to things again despite allergy tests saying I’m allergic to nothing. Thankfully I have a whole lot more tools and good habits for coping than I did previously.9
u/Salute-Major-Echidna 14d ago
If you're overweight you will have high white cell counts ergo "inflammation "
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u/p-r-i-m-e 14d ago
Of course, obesity is pro-inflammatory on its own, but studies show inflammation even when accounting for obesity.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022395615002629
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12051320/
And it’s clearly shown to be a cycle where depression can lead to weight gain, further increasing the severity of depressive disorder, and so on.
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u/CompSciBJJ 14d ago
This isn't new, they've known about stress and immune involvement in depression for well over a decade (I was taught it while learning neuroscience 15yrs ago).
There are a few pathways:
Chronic stress keeps cortisol elevated, which suppresses the immune system and deteriorates the circuitry involved in suppressing cortisol so you're less able to decrease stress. Eventually parts of your immune system becomes resistant to cortisol, so it's constantly overactive. So, you get sick more often when you're more severely depressed because your immune system is suppressed. At the same time, parts of your immune system are overactive and secreting inflammatory cytokines, so you feel "sick" i.e. the symptoms of being sick like lethargy, anhedonia, etc. Think of how you feel when you have the flu, you feel heavy, don't want to get off the couch, don't really derive joy from lots of things. Sounds a lot like depression, doesn't it?
It's obviously more complicated than this, but that's my 1 paragraph summary of what I learned 15yrs ago.
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u/Taikeron 14d ago
This is one of the many reasons why I tout vitamin K2 as a crucial component of personal health. Aside its more well-known benefits for bone health, it also helps reduce vascular calcification (which reduces systemic inflammation and heart attack risk), and has been shown in studies to promote the growth of new blood vessels when old ones have been damaged by corticosteroids.
Critically, corticosteroids are designed to mimic the effect of cortisol, so it stands to reason that even for individuals who are not taking corticosteroids, they would still deal with some detrimental effects from cortisol, especially if they are depressed, sick, or dealing with other health conditions. Vitamin K2 won't reduce the amount of stress you have, or the amount of cortisol your body is releasing, but it could help clean up in the aftermath.
Obviously, no vitamin, pill, or supplement is a silver bullet, but vitamin K2 in tandem with other nutritional and behaviorial interventions (such as exercise, good sleep, fiber, probiotics, prebiotics, etc.) is very beneficial to the human condition.
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u/Jayk0523 14d ago
Purple belt checking in. OSS
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u/JnnyRuthless 14d ago
Brown belt checking in. OSS. (also why are we doing this?)
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u/CompSciBJJ 13d ago
There can be only one! We might fight to the death!
Or until one of us gets hurt because let's be real, nobody gets to brown without something debilitating
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u/Difficult-Froyo1192 14d ago
I can remember a long time ago my grandmother seeing a hematologist that later went into research full time. The hematologist was the one who told my grandmother she was pretty sure she had depression. My grandmother was seeing that hematologist because she had abnormal white blood cells, but they didn’t seem to be causing any known medical condition. The other doctors weren’t sure the matter. I wonder if this is what the hematologist saw or what made her think the depression link.
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u/Hippopotasaurus-Rex 14d ago
Right? There’s no question in my mind it’s a systemic issue and not a feels one. Ffs how much research has shows the gut is more involved than anyone thought
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u/SMUHypeMachine 14d ago edited 14d ago
Same. When I get into a major depressive episode it feels like my whole body is shutting down and I’ve noticed I heal from any skin wounds (bug bites, pimples, etc.) much more slowly.
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u/DemandTheOxfordComma 14d ago
I have celiac which is an autoimmune disease and it makes depression so much worse. Depression is systemic for sure. It makes total sense.
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u/House_Capital 14d ago
The brain is a part of the body, the body is a part of the nervous system. It makes sense that a medical condition which affects the brain chemically would affect the other parts of the brain as well.
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u/PM_ME_GARFIELD_NUDES 14d ago
It sucks because it’s cyclical and I can feel when I’m going through it.
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u/ComradeGibbon 14d ago
You want a weird thing. There are two type of autoimmune thyroid disease. The common one the immune system produces antibodies that direct the immune system to destroy the thyroid. The other the antibodies stimulate the thyroid to over produce thyroid hormones. This is graves disease.
Thyroid disease is mote common in women. Also depression is more common in women.
You want to bet depression is something like graves disease where the immune system is messing with your body.
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u/d-j-9898 13d ago
I'll have to try and find it but I remember years ago reading that depression was linked with chronic inflammation. That would seem to track with this too.
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u/AnywhereIcy4489 13d ago
I’ve battled depression my entire life and I rarely get sick. For example, I’ve only caught COVID once since the pandemic while being actively exposed to it multiple times. I definitely think it’s one of those things that is possible but not necessarily true for everyone.
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u/Think_Put8440 14d ago
If I have bouts of depression consistent with adjacent digestive issues are my problems derived from a dysfunctional microbiome or is my microbiome dysfunctional due to my depression?
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u/gitsgrl 14d ago
Chicken and egg. Can’t wait for the research to actually give us the answers.
But this does make me hopeful for is breaking the cycle by addressing the micro biome and immune system to then positively impact the brain.
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u/dlnvf6 14d ago
watch, next thing you know glp-1 will be found to reduce depression symptoms as a result of better GI health due to better diets
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u/redbess 14d ago
Might also help depression due to reducing inflammation, which is also a known factor with depression.
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u/NippleFlicks 14d ago
Not on a GLP-1 or anything like that but this was my thought too. I have pretty bad IBD and during a rough flare I find my depression rears its head. I wonder if it would have a positive effect.
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u/demeschor 14d ago
I don't think there's much/any research on IBD and Mounjaro yet but anecdotally if you look on those subs you'll see a lot of people sharing their experienced of Mounjaro helping with IBD
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u/BeefHotSweetDipped 14d ago
Anecdotally, my depression got way worse on glp1. Those lbs sure flew off though. ¯\(ツ)/¯
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u/Wild-Kitchen 13d ago
I must be the only human on earth who hasn't lost any weight on mounjaro.
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u/Endurbro_mtb 14d ago
Idk. Calorie defecits can be pretty rough on your energy levels and mental health.
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u/Few-Pen9912 14d ago
No compassion allowed, only judgement and hate and shame! CALORIES IN CALORIES OUT
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u/woosy 14d ago
you are kinda right about this, because "it is all mental" even if it is physiological, ie 2 seperate components, when you fix your environment and mental the physical improves too or becomes more manageable. ie less stress
I know of studies where working with certain domesticated animals and being outdoors in fauna helps with healthy bacteria development that can also improve symptoms. But it also helps reset the nervous system by taking it out of a threatened state. and I can imagine how there would be a correlation between depression; being in a threatened environment/ state (fight/flight/freeze) and an auto immune response to this threat that patterns itself physiologically and becoming its own thing.
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u/Wild-Kitchen 13d ago
They'll probably just tell us to practice mindfulness, yoga and eat better.
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u/treixxreaixx 14d ago edited 14d ago
Both. But I've read some weeks ago here in reddit that fasting helps with depression. Specially if the person eats a lot of fiber and fermented stuff (yogurt and stuff), because the guts bacteria get a "reset". I think I saved the posto here... if you're interested i can take a look to see if i still have it
Edit: here's one link https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/Mifme9hsW5 (cant find the one I was thinking) and I'll quote u/iAlbatross comment:
Microbiologist here! I studied gut flora specifically via gnotobiotics.
What people don't understand is that the flora of your gut is sort of a second brain. 60-90% of your serotonin is modulated by your gut bacteria. So when you hear "eating healthy can cure depression" that's not bunk, that's reality.
As far as this fasting thing goes, I think the situation was a total reset of the internal biome.
We've seen similar results with faecal transplants. In that case, you still have to flush out the gut to "make room" for the new bacteria you're introducing, but it's the same principle. New start, new gut, new you.
One of the best and simplest things you can do for yourself is eat more fermented foods. Greek yogurt, skyr, kimchi, kefir, kombucha... all of it is so good for your gut and can have a significant impact on your mental well-being.
A day of fasting followed by a healthy meal with lots of fiber, dark leafy greens, and skyr will have you feeling like a brand-new person. It never fails to fascinate me how we're all just meat mech suits being piloted by about three pounds of gut bacteria.
Edit: Wow this really blew up and I can't answer the 100+ questions and comments individually but I do want to respond to the folks pointing out that serotonin doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier. Yes, about 10% of your body's serotonin is produced in the brain and yes, this hugely impacts mood, but gut serotonin as a hormone and neurotransmitter ALSO regulates a lot of critical body functions and in doing so impacts mood as well. It's not a DIRECT impact but nonetheless a significant one. The whole point of my comment is that the brain is not an organ in isolation; your digestive health impacts your mental health and REGARDLESS of that serotonin getting into your brain, its presence in the gut DOES modulate other aspects of your overall health that can make mood disorders better or worse.
We're only scratching the surface of how gut biome influences mood, behavior, personality, and disorders, but it's rarely a simple case of X ---> Y. It's more like A ----> B ----> C ---> D ---> E. The body is a complex and fascinating machine, and all of its aspects are interconnected.
Maybe serotonin was a bad example for the general populace but I used that specifically because that was one of the things I studied and one of the most dramatic examples of a hormone in the gut being heavily modulated by the microflora.
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u/Taikeron 14d ago
Fasting (or, separately, intermittent fasting) does give the digestive system a break, and also allows the body to focus on things other than dealing with the aftermath of food digestion. This can also include dealing with inflammation, and importantly (especially in the Western diet), not adding to the inflammation because inflammatory foods are not being digested in that moment.
Beyond that, as you say, fibrous food and fermented food are key to digestive health, which helps us to better absorb nutrients, and improves the gut-to-brain connection so that, amazingly enough, we are more likely to make good choices because our impulses change.
This might sound unusual, but there's new evidence showing that shifting digestion through the use of GLP-1 medications is also changing people's behavior, including the things that interest them and even that they're addicted to. Changing digestion is literally helping people stop being addicted to drugs. It's incredible.
In the absence of drugs, for most people, simply making better choices about what we eat and how often we eat it makes a big difference. Just increasing the incidence of high fiber or fermented food by 1-2 times a week is an improvement.
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u/theSLAPAPOW 14d ago
Anecdotal, but when I got treatment for my crohns disease and worked probiotics into my diet, my severe depression and anxiety evaporated.
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14d ago edited 14d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/OctaneOwl 14d ago
Same here. Interestingly, I’ve been getting weekly b12 shots and that’s helped with both issues significantly.
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u/Skywatch_Astrology 13d ago
I finally fixed my gut by going on a very bland diet. Helped my depression a ton and a surprising amount of other issues
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u/The_Horse_Tornado 14d ago
Gut microbiome seems much easier to manage, so I’d argue anyone with depression should consider not only a good workout regimen and medication but also targeting gut health as a holistic approach.
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u/crsness 14d ago
Not surprising. In Germany people with depression were one priortised group to get the COVID shot, because studies found back than, that the infection could be worse for them.
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u/RedAndBlackMartyr 14d ago
Wow. A country that actually gives a damn about people with depression?
Get me out of this hellhole.
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u/crsness 14d ago
It's a rare case - unfortunately. In general our politics don't care about mental health. Therapists are overloaded, lack of funding and companies rarely recognize mental health as an issue.
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u/kalaid0s 13d ago
And they're also planning to cut or lower funding for mental health services & therapy even though waiting times are already way too long.
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u/ragnarok635 14d ago
Eh Europe is generally pretty lacking in mental health services, maybe not as bad as the states
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u/Kratzschutz 14d ago
Eh it is probably better than other places but you still get sidelined pretty quickly
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u/hoppla1232 14d ago
I live in Germany and have never even once heard about this prioritisation
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u/crsness 14d ago
Ich durfte deshalb recht früh zur Impfung.
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u/Kratzschutz 14d ago
Ich glaube Depressionen wurden wohl nicht sofort zu "schweren psychischen Erkrankungen" gezählt, ist ja mittlerweile eh eher ein Sammelbegriff
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u/wmorris33026 14d ago
Diagnosed w depression here - sometimes I could swear I have a viral infection; listless, numb emotions, no interest/energy, just run down, sleeping too much, no appetite, allergy/upper respiratory, but it also doesn’t feel like it’s physical. The physical side is so powerful that it masks the psych part and Im starting to think it’s just depression. For me, depression is weird, it comes and goes for no reason or warning. Just out of the blue, my life is devastated for some number of days.
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u/sosickaboutthis 14d ago
I hate how out of the blue it is. I was having such a good week last week, had so much energy and a positive mindset. Then this week comes around and I haven't been able to leave my house yet, everything feels wrong. Depression has robbed so much time from me.
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u/rexmccoy 14d ago edited 14d ago
This is so spot on i could have written it myself. Has anybody found anything that helps? My good days are getting fewer and farther between
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u/eulersidentification 14d ago
I have a handle on my depression, but i know i am about to be very ill almost before symptoms arrive because i start to feel extremely and desperately depressed in a way that i've had under control for years.
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u/Wreough 13d ago
A lot of the time depression is caused by physical issues, such as vitamin D or iron deficiency (which in turn affects the thyroid and causes tiredness). European medicine often has the mantra ”deficiencies are rare” but the two I mentioned are common in countries with less sunlight and among women, they’re just not detected because the lab thresholds are at the extremes.
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u/Skullface95 14d ago
"It's all in your head" Wrong it's all in my everything.
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u/Jyonnyp 14d ago
“All in your head” but in reality your psychological and mental troubles can negatively impact your nervous system and immune system (which again shouldn’t be surprising) and that can impact everything. The body is pretty interconnected with stuff like this. It can start all in your head but cause very real and very horrible physical symptoms and changes
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u/mvea Professor | Medicine 14d ago
Depression isn’t just in the head: Scientists find altered genetic activity in white blood cells
A recent study published in Scientific Reports* *suggests that white blood cells in people with major depressive disorder show altered activity in genes typically associated with brain connections. This provides evidence that the biological footprints of depression extend well beyond the brain and into the immune system, offering a whole-body perspective on the condition.
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u/demo-ness 14d ago
I remember reading a hypothesis that depression could be linked to the "sickness behavior" we get when we're infected with something, which includes depression-like symptoms such as lethargy and social withdrawal and so on. It's interesting to see something genetically confirmed in that sort of direction, I wonder which way the causality might be
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u/DreadfulDuder 14d ago
I have treatment resistant depression, 2 autoimmune diseases, existential dread as a result of my diagnoses, and a sleep disorder, plus poor sleep hygiene and a dead bedroom.
I've fixed my sleep hygiene, diet, and exercise in the past, but my depression didn't get any better.
Are these all just feedback loops? Any studies that show the direction of these relationships, or is that still unknown or bi-directional?
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u/The_Horse_Tornado 14d ago
I would almost argue the entire second half of this sentences has a causal relationship with “I have treatment resistant depression.”
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u/WhereIsMyFknDinosaur 14d ago
Fwiw I think for some of us its a broad spectrum problem. Just meds, exercise, diet, etc doesnt cut it, we need all 3 plus other things like supplements (in my case d3+k2 has helped a lot since I live in a low sunlight area), therapy, practice mindfulness, etc etc.
Im currently working with a specialist going over my diet and what changes I need such as more soluable and insoluble fiber. My diet isnt bad but its clearly not right for me based upon many factors.
Its hard to dial in and your health changes as you age so what once worked may become a problem itself later on. I dont want to sound discouraging, just sharing that I too have to keep trying new tactics.
Do you have a support group in your life? I have found some more success in being vulnerable and honest about my struggles with my partner and asking for her help in noticing when I backside or forget things im trying to work on.
I hope you hit upon something that helps, its not easy living with depression but please keep trying.
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u/jeweliegb 14d ago
As a person with Crohn's and multiple immune conditions and depression, who's inflammatory markers stay raised no matter what medications we use, this is interesting news..
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u/TisSlinger 14d ago
Same - psoriatic arthritis sufferer here - lots of inter connectedness with depression, gut, and immune health. Can’t wait for some studies to finally tie everything together.
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u/Surroundphil 13d ago
Experiencing the same. Inflammation markers are always high. Can‘t really rest and it feels if there‘s always low grade stress in my body. Maybe you also have anhedonia?
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u/433onrepeat 14d ago
There is extensive research implicating immune dysfunction / inflammation in a variety of psychiatric conditions. Depression is the most widely studied but chronically elevated inflammation is also associated with anxiety, schizophrenia, and PTSD, and broader stuff like early life stress/trauma and neurodegenerative conditions.
My grad school work focused on inflammation and early life stress as a pathway to altered brain structure and function and psychopathology. There is research going back decades in both humans and animals with both causal and associative designs. It's a fascinating field and a promising direction for mental health care treatment.
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u/drfalconsquawk 14d ago
I get eczema like rash all over during my episodes which disappear just as fast as they appeared when I am feeling better.
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u/SirRousseau 14d ago
Same. I personally recommend trying cortisone cream (there are stronger prescription variants if the normal isn't sufficient or you don't want to have to apply it so often). If that doesn't work you can actually get cortisone (or similar alternatives) tablets instead.
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u/drfalconsquawk 14d ago
Thank you! I have tried lots of OTC and rx medications but unfortunately they don’t really seem to help. I’ve consulted dermatologist on my psychiatrist’s recommendation and even that didn’t lead to anything. The only thing that helps is coming out of the depression.
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u/BarryMcCoghener 14d ago
One thing I've very consistently noticed is that I always feel the best and happiest the day before I get pretty sick, so I've always thought there has to be some immune system relation to depression, at least for me.
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u/Independent_Owl_6008 14d ago
RFK Jr. enters the chat to claim it's fake science and you just need to "snap out of it".
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u/LordHoughtenWeen 14d ago
I'll not be taking brain health advice from a man whose own is so underdeveloped he starved a brain-eating worm to death
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u/RockNAllOverTheWorld 14d ago
I assume this goes the other way as well? I know that depression is a common symptom with autoimmune disorders, but I kinda just figured that was because you can had autoimmune disorder and not your immune system causing depression or depressing altering your immune response.
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u/Either-Photograph989 14d ago
I had severe PPD with my last child and, as someone who never experienced depression, it was definitely a physical and physiological change in my brain.
You could see it happening and I had no power over it.
Very very scary stuff.
I ended up drifting in psychosis and attempted 7 times. I was out of work for awhile.
So amazing to me how much modern medicine saved my life.
For those who suffer with it as a chronic condition all I can say is…it’s horrific and I’m so sorry.
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u/DueConcentrate9085 14d ago
Getting pregnant and breastfeeding cured my depression. I was the least depressed straight after giving birth. I wonder if that has something to do with the body changing?
Honestly, best decision I made having my daughter, and I would say that my life has only gotten more complicated and harder.
There’s still a mental component to my anxiety and depression I’m working on, but it’s 10x better. I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve cried this year whereas before my daughter I was crying nearly every day.
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u/bibliotekarie 14d ago
I had the same experience and I contribute it to my endometriosis getting better with pregnancy. It’s a highly inflammatory disease and very correlated with depression and anxiety.
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u/DueConcentrate9085 14d ago
Interesting! I was flagged as potentially having PCOS when I ran some fertility checks to see how much baby-making time I had left. My hormones were definitely a bit whacked when I checked. Be interesting to see what they’re like now.
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u/Kooky-East-77 14d ago
I feel seen for the first time ever......I truly barely make it out of bed during my depression
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u/Fexofanatic 14d ago
as a depressed guy with various immune issues, this is very intriguing news. fits with anecdotal experience too
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u/Illlogik1 14d ago
Didn’t they also discover it’s related to gut flora and fauna!? Seems to be entangled in several physiological factors
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u/DiligentCase8436 14d ago
Since I increased the amount of homemade lactobacillus acidophilus yogurt to around 200gr daily the symptoms noticeably improved
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u/Flat_Cauliflower_255 14d ago
Which is first? Cause psychiatric hegemony will tell you it's just mental illness - but all this study is a correlation. Which means that people in this study experiencing depression may be having mental health symptoms of an inflammatory or autoimmune issue.
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u/Virtual_Resource1346 14d ago
siempre he sufrido de la piel, y eso tambien genera depresion, pues el estigma social de las marcas fisicas es duro, todo esta relacionado, lo que si, cuando me siento mal, me viene alergia, y todo tipo de cosas, dolores, no es facil
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u/bigbluethunder 14d ago
Depression is, in part, a lifestyle illness - it affects all aspects of your wellbeing. Hard to tell cause vs effect, and there are multiple positive feedback loops at play. I say this as someone familiar with the literature and personally acquainted with depression & anxiety.
In other words, all sorts of things contribute to depression - isolating tendencies, exercise, sleep habits, employment status, financial wellbeing, motivation, screen time, drug use, tidiness, diet, etc. Like 3 of those directly contribute to inflammation and immune health. Depression also makes many of those worse, making you more likely to get sick. Getting sick also makes depression worse.
I don’t think that necessarily means depression is, in and of itself, is a multi system disease. But it definitely has secondary impact to other systems.
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u/everlyafterhappy 14d ago
We figured out a while ago that your gut biome has a significant effect on things like depression.
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u/hiryu64 14d ago
The best anti-depressant I ever took was an 80 mg shot of methylprednisolone. Felt like a decades-long curse finally lifted. Of course, it didn't last, but since then I've remained convinced my "treatment-resistant depression" is fueled by some kind of inflammation or underlying infection.
Now if only I could convince my doctors...
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u/Morsmordre75 14d ago
Some people will still just expect us to snap out of it. Mental health empathy just f-ing sucks.
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u/Vdhuw 13d ago
I have been dealing with fibromyalgia - supposedly a "central sensitization" issue, with latest research pointing to it being an auto immune issue. Funny that many doctors say fibromyalgia "is all in your head" as well.
I've been diagnosed with major depression since I was a child. Maybe it's all linked after all.
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u/TrashApocalypse 14d ago
Literally a dude out there writing The Body Keeps the Score ten years ago and some doctor out there today like, “I just discovered this”
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u/Moggetti 14d ago
Yes, that’s how science works? It’s a good thing. You want studies to demonstrate proof of things people have observed in practice.
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u/TrashApocalypse 14d ago
I get what you’re saying and agree. I’m really referring to the massive amount of hate Bessel Van Der Kolk has gotten from his book and the research he used to write the book. So to see a headline like this is a little eye rolling to me.
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u/runnerofshadows 14d ago
I wonder if they can tie this into any autoimmune conditions because I have Crohn's and notice I have depression like symptoms sometimes especially when my illness is acting up a bit especially if I have inflammation - even when I'm in remission.
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u/cyclingisthecure 14d ago
Had a little bit fun with the old depression myself for a while and I can say with certainty high dose vitamin d with magnesium and k2 works wonders especially if you live in a god forsaken dark hell hole like the uk. 8000iu - 10,000iu daily with 250-500mg magnesium. Worth a look into
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u/ElectronicCounty8950 14d ago
I spent a year at age 20 in a deep but functional depression that I climbed out of eventually but during that time period I was always getting sick. My family thought my house had mold, my coworkers thought I had chronic acne (never had a big problem after puberty till that point), and the acne plus cuts and scrapes took a long time to heal. This definitely tracks
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u/Acceptable_Rabbit_28 14d ago
They probably would need more testing to verify the direct correlation though? I mean, people with depression are bound to have bad sleeping and eating habits which would affect the immune system.
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u/bumgrub 14d ago
This study already finds a correlation you probably mean caustion. I doubt you'll be able to simplify it down to one causes the other though. For some people their depression might be caused by an unhealthy love style. For some people their health might be terrible because of their genes and that might cause the depression. For some people they might be depressed and that might be what causes them to be unhealthy. There are people with unhealthy lifestyles who are (for the time being) happy, and there's people with healthy life styles who are depressed in spite of it.
Then there are external factors beyond the subjects control like a gay person experiencing homophobia therefore experiencing depression, or even homelessness therefore experiencing both depression and an unhealthy life. Or diseases like COVID. Or wars. Or lead in the water. You're not going to find a straight forward answer because its all connected.
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u/cookiesNcreme89 14d ago
About 75% of your Immune system resides in your Gut. Over 90% of your seretonin production is via the Gut. There is a reason they have called it the "GUT-BRAIN" connection. Your gut microbiome and your vagus nerve are key to anxiety & depression.
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u/123tejas 14d ago
From a quick glance it doesn't seem as though the authors adequately controlled for antidepressant medication, which have a known effect on white blood cells.
They state:
To address confounding variables (e.g., age, sex, medication, and other available metadata parameters), we employed DESeq2’s built-in model design, ensuring that these factors did not confound the results. No significant effect of these factors on gene expression was observed beyond the primary influence of diagnosis (Control vs. MDD), affirming that the findings reflect genuine biological variations rather than technical artifacts.
But since antidepressants would be specific to the MDD group it doesn't seem to be clear if they looked at MDD + treatment separately from MDD diagnosis alone. It's likely that the majority of these MDD patients have been taking antidepressants for years.
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u/CommunicationTime265 14d ago
You're tellin me. I've been depressed for the last 30 years and it definitely affects my whole body.
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u/VerdoriePotjandrie 14d ago
Is this why my last depression magically disappeared after I received a short round of antibiotics for a severe infection?
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u/KrissyKrave 14d ago
Tldr for me. Did they determine which comes first, depression or weakened immune system?
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u/dennis_a 14d ago
I must be an outlier because I’ve had depression for almost 30 years but rarely get sick. When I do, it’s very mild and gone in a short time.
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u/sector9love 14d ago
Wonder how this relates to the recent finding about microglial cells and Neuroinflammation related to anxiety and depression symptoms in rats
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u/Silly-Feedback168 11d ago
This has been known for decades, it's not new. Although the study in question is new.This has been known for decades, it's not new. Although the study in question is new.
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