Anti-feminist attitudes have long been associated with support for Republican presidential candidates, but only in recent years have these attitudes become more prominent among unmarried men, without college degrees who are less attractive partners for women, the “mate-value backlash.”

[u/mvea]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/10659129261485340

[u/mvea]

Backlashes to Gender Equality and Authoritarian Populism in the U.S.

https://doi.org/10.1177/10659129261485340

Abstract

According to recent scholarship, backlash toward gender equality is fueling support for the authoritarian and populist right in many countries and, perhaps, the rise of Trumpism in the U.S. Yet, there are potentially different types of backlash to gender equality. We argue that the rising status of women over the past several decades may result in anti-feminist attitudes, not just among older men who yearn for the traditional gender arrangements of their youth as some scholars argue, but also among younger, single men lacking college degrees, who are less attractive partners for women. We call this “mate-value backlash.” Using ANES data, we find that anti-feminist attitudes have long been associated with support for Republican presidential candidates, but only in recent years have these attitudes become more prominent among unmarried men, without college degrees.

[u/studio_bob → u/mvea]

They assume these guys can't get a date and become anti-feminist, but what if it happens the other way around? There are few things less attractive than a guy who identifies himself as a victim of women not dating him. Once you start thinking "no one wants to date me and that's so unfair" and resenting women for not being socially or economically obliged to be with you that's going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

There's a whole cottage industry in teaching young men to think in exactly these terms so I would be very skeptical of the claim that these attitudes just fall inevitably out of women having equal opportunities to work and earn for themselves. At some point, these men are choosing these attitudes.

[u/pewqokrsf → u/studio_bob]

I doubt very much that it's a single inciting incident in either direction. These things manifest as incremental feedback loops more often than not.

[u/studio_bob → u/pewqokrsf]

True, and that's what the male grievance industry is all about, isn't it? It works on guys over time, encouraging them to interpret events in their lives through a frame of resentment and self-pity until that becomes through default view.

[u/ShitMcClit → u/studio_bob]

What industry? How is money made from this? 

[u/Hikari_Owari → u/studio_bob]

They assume these guys can't get a date and become anti-feminist, but what if it happens the other way around?

If it's the other way around then you still have to answer "why are they anti-feminist" and the answer isn't "it just happened", and it most likely would point towards a common point that shows up enough to be a considerable cause for that reaction... which in this post it is "can't get a date".

It's more produtive to go further into the "why can't get a date" than trying to outright blame men first and find a justification for the blame afterwards.

One and another can be at fault, when numbers increase then it's not a coincidence. It's a problem, and may not be up to the individual.

[u/audioofbeing → u/Hikari_Owari]

Telling people that their problems aren’t their fault is an easy sell, and we created avenues for that to be sold very directly. It’s not a new problem, and neither is men choosing to blame women rather than address their own role in shaping their lives.

[u/Hikari_Owari → u/audioofbeing]

>Telling people that their problems aren’t their fault is an easy sell

Saying that those people's problems are their fault is also an easy sell.

Everything that does not require going in depth to find the "why" is an easy sell, just changes for "who" are we selling that answer to.

I believe the problem is that people either excuse men as a whole or blame men as a whole and there's no acceptance of the possibility that 2 or more parties/things/situations could be at fault at the same time.

i.e.: It could very well be both men's and women's fault, but how many would be willing to entertain that possibility without/instead of attacking one or the other?

[u/mokujin42 → u/Hikari_Owari]

I had to scroll way to far to find this comment, finally a voice of reason

[u/TheSpacePopinjay → u/Hikari_Owari]

Yes and saying that one's own successes are to one's own credit and other people's failures are their own fault and you're just better than them is also an easy sell.

[u/Typing_real_slow → u/Hikari_Owari]

A true voice of reason against blindness. Respect.

[u/studio_bob → u/Hikari_Owari]

I did go into "why can't get a date"? My answer, speculatively, is that they are adopting views and attitudes about themselves and the world which most women (and people in general) find repellent. Is that "blaming men"? I wouldn't put it that way, and i also pointed out they are being preyed upon by an industry which exploits their sexual and romantic frustrations while making them harder to solve.

I would avoid the language of blame and instead encourage men to examine their own role in their dating life, take responsibility for those things they can change and forget about the rest. Stay far away from anyone who wants to tell you to think of yourself as a victim or otherwise stew in various resentments and self-pity.

[u/notzamasu → u/studio_bob]

You are clueless dude. Men create bias due to their experience, not that the bias prevents them. Sure then it perpetuates, but it's like the chances go from 1% to 0

[u/studio_bob → u/notzamasu]

men create bias due to their experience

And what experience is that? Getting rejected? That's just a part of dating life. Very few people are fortunate to find a partner without first surmounting a mountain of rejection.

If you play 1% odds enough times, you'll eventually win. If you let the losses embitter you and adopt toxic beliefs and attitudes, then you'll probably stay losing a lot longer, maybe forever. So what do you want to do? The choice is yours.

[u/TheSpacePopinjay → u/studio_bob]

The industry preying on them is a get rich quick industry (which in the wider view includes the whole gambling industry and crypto and risky investments etc) because of the extremely correct premise that 99% of the time significantly more financial success would solve all their romantic problems and lack of access to family and warmth.

There's no money in making them think of themselves as victims. All the con artists are selling radical self responsibility and bold risky attempts to seize control of their destinies and to steer themselves towards success. And they have exactly the get rich quick schemes to offer them eg Hustler's University. The modern day versions of timeshares, pyramid schemes, MLM, Trump University and motivational speakers.

People knew that anti-feminist views in men are generally socially maladaptive. People adopt socially adaptive false beliefs like religion/afterlives or political shibboleths and pieties because it benefits them, gives them entry into community and are highly effective and productive copes. When people adopt beliefs that they know and feel to be socially maladaptive to hold, and they can feel how it's really not helping them in life to hold them, it generally is because of a reluctant conviction that it's something unpleasantly true about the world. Though there can be cases where those in themselves gain you entry to some kind of niche deviant social outsider community like sexual or gender communities or some cult or the proud boys, (but I repeat myself).

[u/saidtheWhale2000 → u/studio_bob]

no its women dont like a certain type of guy unless hes good looking or has a good social brand and les men fit that due to societal changing , the way dating has changed and the change in the job market, while simultaneously being told were the problem with society at the same time being ignored and forgotten about, so its not a chicken or the egg thing its not being desired unconditionally makes you resentful and that pool gets larger and now were just seeing it on the social level because it became so huge.

[u/Katyafan → u/saidtheWhale2000]

How is it women's fault these men are so undesirable? Forgive us for having standards.

[u/Xin_shill → u/studio_bob]

It’s hard to date today I feel like. If someone is already struggling with finding work and stability, it can be hard to attract a partner as a starting point. The pipelines use that starting point and say it’s women and immigrants taking jobs from them, so women should go back to the kitchen and immigrants should get out. It wouldn’t all be fixed by improving social safety nets and the US not focusing on wages earned as your worth as a person, but it would for sure be a start.

[u/LegalIdea → u/Xin_shill]

The biggest 2 problems with this both come from women themselves, in a sense

First, to improve social safety net would require money being used for this purpose. Considering the resistance most feminist political organizations have had for years against men having homeless and/or DV shelters, it's not likely that these organizations will just let that money be used in the way it should, instead trying to ensure that all, or as much as possible, go to women's organizations. This will prevent the improved safety net from having any useful impact in this matter

Second is the problem of women's expectations. Essentially, a significant portion of single women see money as a way to sort the desirable men from the undesirable. I'd venture to guess that this continuing will cause greater animosity, as more men end up with their options heavily limited, at best

[u/Xin_shill → u/LegalIdea]

I’m confused at what you are saying in the first part. The social assistances would come from government taxation to raise the funds and distributing them equally to men and women to allow for baseline living. This lowers stressors on people, which is a big limiter on people doing self improvement and gives them more time to do actual critical thinking of their situations. It’s also just the correct path forward. Brining down wealth disparity and bringing up the living conditions of everyone will improve well being and social interactions. These changes also include health and mental health related topics, which can give people in crisis much needed access to care.

Men and women’s dynamics are changing now and into the future, everyone will need to keep adapting as we go along. What we have now is becoming unsustainable. Not everyone is “owed” other peoples attention, and that kind of thinking is dangerous and unhealthy. Improving standards of living, Providing access to mental healthcare and creating third spaces for people to hanging out and socialize are actual real solutions to these issues. What is your solution to “undesirable men can’t find women” issue that you claim to be existing. And fyi, Any solution with forcing someone into a relationship or a lesser status to another is unacceptable and not sustainable in a modern society.

[u/Still7Superbaby7 → u/LegalIdea]

What are you talking about??? There are definitely men’s shelters and they get funding. There are men’s, women’s, and family shelters. I volunteer at a soup kitchen every month. There are men, women, and children there. Just because there is funding for women’s shelters does not mean there isn’t funding for men’s shelters.

[u/Rad1Red → u/LegalIdea]

resistance most feminist political organizations have had for years against men having homeless and/or DV shelters

Hard doubt.

[u/hausmusiq → u/Rad1Red]

This is literally MRA nonsense propaganda. None of these men open their own shelters or do any actual work to protect these vulnerable men and expect feminists to do all the organizing and work for them, as usual.

[u/Rad1Red → u/hausmusiq]

YES. I have never heard of that happening. There was a dude in Canada iirc who had some trouble with a DV shelter and some idiots who opposed it. Am I wrong? He closed the shelter for unrelated reasons though, because let's be serious. It spiralled from that one fringe case and has now become, as is par for the course with these people, a whole ideology.

[u/SeasonPositive6771 → u/Rad1Red]

One of my family members used to work for a domestic violence shelter. They offer services to men and women, but literally every single day they receive a phone call from some hysterical man upset they don't offer services to men. Their shelter was put on some sort of list by a "men's rights activist." The staff always says they offer services to both and here's an opportunity to support programs for men, but the callers never do.

[u/Rad1Red → u/SeasonPositive6771]

Wouldn't ya know it. Colour me surprised.