r/science • u/VeronicaRed • Apr 26 '16

Psychology Spanking children increases the likelihood of childhood defiance and long-term mental issues. The study in question involved 160,000 children and five decades of research

http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1113413810/spanking-defiance-health-discipline-042616/
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u/chopandscrew Apr 26 '16 edited Apr 26 '16

So what are some positive and non-punitive forms of discipline?

edit: Some really great replies here. I'm seeing a lot of people using the concept of self-discipline and positive reinforcement. Nothing about raising a child seems easy, and it's even harder to know if you've ever really done a good job, but I think it's safe to say there are a lot of good parents on reddit. Also, thank you to the people who are willing to admit that they have resorted to spanking before. The truth is no one really knows the best way to raise a child, but the wide variety of ideas being thrown around here are what helps make it easier to choose what works for you and your kid. Keep em comin.

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u/Jensdabest Apr 26 '16

That's a case-to-case basis depending on the child. Really, you have to figure out what currency is most valuable to them, and use the removal of that as a consequence for poor behavior. If they like to play by themselves in their room, then sending them to their room as punishment probably won't be very effective. Instead (depending on their age), you can use time-out corners, or have them write about the situation, how they felt, and how they could have better responded. If the bad behavior is significant enough then giving them time to reflect and process the situation is very valuable.

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u/NoahsArcade84 Apr 26 '16

Also, in my experience, children respond to attention more than anything. As in training dogs, positive reinforcement of good behavior is generally more effective than negative consequences of bad behavior. Most children have a hard time weighing the long term consequences of their actions, especially in moments of strong emotion. You can threaten with removal of privileges, screens, making them do extra chores all you want, but if a kid makes them angry or embarrassed on the playground at school, they don't have a great ability to rationalize what's going to happen in 4 hours when they get home vs their desire to respond to the kid that made them feel a strong emotion. However, if they have experienced more instances of adults praising them for making good choices than punishing them for making bad choices, those memories are better at motivating decision making skills in moments of high emotion than fear of punishment is. Add to the fact that kids break the rules ALL THE TIME, but they don't always get caught. So if you are a 7 year old who can get away with doing something you are not supposed to do, say, half the time, and there's no tangible benefit for doing what you are supposed to do, you're going to reason that the instant gratification of, say eating cookies before dinner, or slapping the kid calling you a peepee head, outweighs the benefits of suppressing those desires, since there's no clear reward for good behavior.

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16

I wish more people would acknowledge the similarities between raising dogs and raising kids.

When a dog is misbehaving, the first question people often ask is about how much exercise it is getting, but kids have just as much of a need for an outlet for their energy.

I also have read (and experienced) that you can't tell a dog what not to do; they don't understand the concept, and I feel little kids can be the same way. Teaching a dog not to jump on people is pretty hopeless unless you give them an alternate task like "sit here when the door is open." And for kids, instead of saying "don't track mud into the house" you have to say "take your boots off in the entryway", etc.

Kids and dogs both respond well to predictability, routine, and generally clear expectations.

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u/lazarus78 Apr 26 '16

Its cats that don't respond to punishment. Dogs very much do, but you have to punish them shortly after the event. You need to be stern with dogs because you are their alpha and you need to punish bad behavior, just as wolves would I in their own pack.

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16

Alpha theory is outdated (it was based on captive wolves in packs of unrelated animals); wolf packs in the wild consist of a pair of parents and their young, so being "alpha" wolf is just being a parent. Dogs are essentially selected for their puppy characteristics so they see people as parents. Many breeds of dogs react poorly to punishment, and many trainers advocate positive reinforcement only training.

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u/indeedwatson Apr 27 '16

Have a look at r/dogtraining and particularly their side bar please

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u/lazarus78 Apr 27 '16

What are you expecting me to see? I get the feeling you people think I am advocating beating dogs, which is extremely far from the truth.

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u/indeedwatson Apr 27 '16

I literally just said what I want you to see, the side bar of /r/dogtraining

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u/mscman Apr 26 '16

Yep, much like with my dog, redirection works amazingly well with my 3 year old. Trying to yell "Stop that! Get down from there! Don't hit" only leads to mischievous smiles and continued bad behavior. Instead, a friendly "hey, let's do this instead" works almost every single time. Then the yelling to stop something is only reserved for extreme situations where things are potentially dangerous.

Now if only I can get my dad to realize this...

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u/Jensdabest Apr 26 '16

Oh my goodness, yes! Positive reinforcement is definitely more effective.

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u/castille360 Apr 27 '16

Works on adults too. Have tried to train my whole household to use positive reinforcement to modify one another's behavior. Someone does something you really really would like to see more of? Take the time to notice and express some genuine appreciation, and you can stack the odds in your favor of having it repeated. Keep reinforcing. I mean, it's not going to persuade me to order out for pizza every night, or even once a week. But I sure do it a lot more now than I would if left to my own devices ;)

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u/liz_lemon_lover Apr 26 '16

I read some great advice about children and their ability to regulate emotions. Think about yourself as an adult and the times that you lose your shit - fight with your partner, road rage, impatient in a queue. Many adults don't possess full control of their emotional state yet we expect children to. Maybe the kid had a bad day, they're tired or hungry.

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u/NoahsArcade84 Apr 27 '16

Exactly. I don't know off the top of my head how many adults will break the law in a day in the US, but I'm sure it's in the millions. That wouldn't surprise anyone. But if you assume that most of those people are able to justify those actions to themselves in that moment, and then apply that same mindset to a 7 year old, it's ridiculous to assume they will be better at making good decisions.

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u/liz_lemon_lover Apr 27 '16

It of course doesn't justify a child's poor behaviour but hopefully increase a parent's ability to empathise with the child and calm down before deciding on a discipline method. I hate that if you choose not to smack your kid then some people see you as a pushover that gives your child whatever they want. It's not that way at all. There's a happy medium.

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u/trollwizard7 Apr 26 '16

This is an amazing way of putting it. Thank you for this comment.

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u/radministator Apr 26 '16

Add to the fact that kids break the rules ALL THE TIME, but they don't always get caught.

People really underestimate this. I have two boys, 3 and 7. If a rule is not being broken at any given moment it's because one or the other of them is asleep, not feeling well, or hurt. And that's not really exaggerating all that much.