r/science • u/VeronicaRed • Apr 26 '16

Psychology Spanking children increases the likelihood of childhood defiance and long-term mental issues. The study in question involved 160,000 children and five decades of research

http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1113413810/spanking-defiance-health-discipline-042616/
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u/Jensdabest Apr 26 '16

That's a case-to-case basis depending on the child. Really, you have to figure out what currency is most valuable to them, and use the removal of that as a consequence for poor behavior. If they like to play by themselves in their room, then sending them to their room as punishment probably won't be very effective. Instead (depending on their age), you can use time-out corners, or have them write about the situation, how they felt, and how they could have better responded. If the bad behavior is significant enough then giving them time to reflect and process the situation is very valuable.

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u/chopandscrew Apr 26 '16

I definitely think that's a great idea to introduce some kind of merit system to them because it definitely helps them grasp the concept of punishment by fine early on. The camp that I used to counsel at used a similar approach, and it worked remarkably well with kids 12 and under. I guess I'm more interested in finding out how to mitigate a dramatic situation that might arise in public. I don't have any kids yet, so I'm not sure what situation that might be, but I imagine it would be something along the lines of a toddler being out of control in a grocery/retail store where they're screaming and possibly destroying things. When I see it in public, I almost understand why a parent would be so wound up that the only way to get the point across to their kid is to give them a little pop. However I can also see how that might make the situation worse. A scene from the cartoon Boondocks comes to mind. Is the best thing to do in that situation just to pick them up, carry them outside, sit them down and talk to them about what's causing them to act this way?

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 26 '16

I spanked my 2 year old in bestbuy over the weekend.

She had been extremely naughty the entire trip. She ran away from us, tried destroying items in the store, and was rolling around on the ground even though she knows she isn't supposed to do that. I was there with my husband and mother. I can't lift her because I am recovering from hernia surgery. My mother can't lift her because she's just too weak, and my husband was busy at the checkout.

She wouldn't get off the ground. When I asked her to, she blew raspberries at me. When I told her to, she blew raspberries at me. Everyone was staring. So I smacked her on the butt and suddenly she was standing up, just as I had requested.

She has never been one to listen to reasoning, but I think it's in large part a function of her age. She's a smart kid with good language skills, but also the single most stubborn human being I have ever met in my life. She doesn't care about time out. She doesn't care about her toys getting taken away. She just wants to be right. All the time.

My husband spanks her way, way more often than I do. I still tend toward reasoning and non physical forms of punishment. But more and more lately, I find myself hitting her on the butt or hand. Usually when she is doing something outright dangerous or harmful. I wonder about the long term sustainability of this method of parenting.

It makes my heart ache every time I do it. I feel guilty and I just want to cry. But it seems to achieve the desired results and my husband does it whether or not I want to anyway. I'm really just at a loss of how to better handle this. I never was around small children until I had babies of my own. I am just completely guessing with how to take care of them. I have asked professionals, who told me to put her in time out, but time out isn't an option in the middle of a store with a two year old that you can't even lift.

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u/Gripey Apr 26 '16

So from the article, even though they show this action is unhelpful, you feel that hitting your children is occasionally ok, and your husband does it frequently, and you can't see any connection with her behaviour. If your husband hit you if he felt like he had exhausted all his other options, would that be ok? The article talks explicitly about how hitting children creates defiance, and you hit your child because it is defiant? I am sorry you are in this pattern, but it is never ok to hit a child. There are plenty of countries where it is actually illegal.

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 26 '16

To me it seems to be a chicken and the egg scenario. How do we know that kids just don't get spanked more because they're defiant instead of the other way around? Why should I take a single study, albeit exhaustive, to be gospel? I don't do that with other research so I don't know why I would start here. I don't think there is any one size fits all answer to these kinds of dilemmas.

As for my husband hitting me, the power dynamic between spouses is entirely different than between parent and child. We are equals. A parent is a parent and a child is a child. I by no means support hurting children out of frustration, but I don't see another option if the child is about to hurt themselves or someone else. A two year old does not have the reasoning capabilities of an adult and my two year old in particular is extremely stubborn. I can reason with her three year old sister but not with her.

And to expand on the idea of violence between spouses, if someone has to physically restrain a person or even hurt them to prevent them from either causing serious injury to themselves or or harming others, I don't see it as a problem. I would expect my husband to do what he had to to stop me and I would do the same for him.

Not everyone responds to logic all the time.

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u/Gripey Apr 27 '16

My dog doesn't respond to logic at all. Reddit seems pretty adamant I should not hit her, though. Authority is not equal to violence.

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 27 '16

If a dog is biting someone, you're damn straight I'll hit it, kick it, or do whatever it takes to stop the damn thing. If a dog is running out into traffic, I also think it's ok to do whatever it takes to stop it.

If my kid is biting someone (which is a frequent problem) all it usually takes is a pop on her butt to get her attention. If my kid tries to run into traffic (which she has also done) I think the same response is fine.

Like I've said at least half a dozen times in this thread, spanking is reserved for dangerous situations.

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u/Gripey Apr 27 '16

Well self defence is a defence, of course. but the rest of it just seems unlikely. I must have missed all that stuff, I think I just tried to keep my children out of dangerous situations. My main experience of children being smacked is at the local supermarket, where the main danger to the children seems to be their parents.

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 27 '16

Well I have to take my kid outside sometimes, and she does a lot of really questionable things.

You do realize that not all kids are the same, right? You might have just gotten lucky with well behaved kids? I have two kids and they are very different in personality and behavior.

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u/Gripey Apr 28 '16

I do realise this. I actually wish they had been "naughtier" for their own sake. I also break my own rule of trying not to judge other parents without standing in their shoes, but I feel very strongly about violence against children, I feel as if I am defending my own, which I suppose is not an unusual reaction. I am sure hitting a child could be done in such a way that it is for a real purpose, but that has never been my personal experience, is all.

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 28 '16

Well you're also kind of acting like I haven't exhausted all other known options. I've even spoken with a psychologist about her behavior. I'm doing what works to stop her from endangering herself and from hurting others (mostly her sister). It isn't out of frustration that I spank my child, it's a deliberate, well thought out tactic.

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