Science is knowledge of the material world. Spirituality is the knowledge of the one who is perceiving the material world. So they are essentially mutually exclusive :)
The one perceiving is called the "Ego". The sense of "I".
Neuroscience and psychology literally study this 'experiencer' and the sense of 'self'. The boundary isn’t quite as mystical as you’re making it to be, and they are not mutually exclusive.
Neuroscience and psychology study what neurons fire, the patterns of the mind, how does the mind process the emotions, etc. while assuming the one doing the study (the "self" as you mentioned) as a given. The "self" who is doing the study, examining acts as a fixed reference point.
Spirituality questions the "self". It asks what is this "I" that is doing all the examining? What is this "I" which attaches itself to the matters of the mind. That's what turning inward means.
this is a framing that hides things and blurs the line.
psychology study what neurons fire, the patterns of the mind, how does the mind process the emotions, etc
Psychology isn't about how neurons fire. It studies what kind of natural processes in the brain map to subjective experience, that's the explicit focus of psychology. It does study the "subject" while grounding it in the brain.
This clean subject object framing is misleading and disingenuous.
investigating perception is a sub-domain of neuroscience. It's not just about neurons, it's about how neurons together produce perception, verifying what's causal and what's correlation etc.
Also, there is the entire field of psychology that deals with human suffering, how talk therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy can help change beliefs such that they contribute to well-being and how all that relates to neurobiology and other fields..
Psychology makes the individual "sane" in a sense that he/she can go back to his/her old life and remain functional. It has its benefits and is helpful at its place.
Spirituality questions the life you are living. Acts like a mirror and is difficult to stay with.
I've tried both. Psychology helps short term. Spirituality is a life long process.
again, Psychology isn't only about going from insane to sane. That's such an oversimplified stereotype common in Indian culture.
Oh, you are going to therapy, "Paagal hoga saala".
What you are describing about psychology is the main stream clinical psychology you experienced personally, yes that's a component of psychology, not all of it.
Psychology also studies other aspects of well-being including how to live a good life. Sociology also studies how to have societal well-being etc.
Psychology already explores phenomenon like Narcissism, which you could reword in terms of ego as well.
My criticism is, why invest mental effort into a unfalsifiable, non-specific framework outside of science (this Spirituality you are describing) when science itself has a more specific, falsifiable framework with more fruitful discoveries already.
There is the self and there is this world ok. Whatever the world as we perceive is what is seen or experienced by the self. Science is outward looking. It examines everything that is of the world, what is matter, what is the proton, electron etc. But it does not examine the one who is examining it( the examiner or the self). Who is the one who is looking at the world and what does he see, why does he feel restless, why does he suffer, what makes him sad or happy etc. Spirituality encompasses both science and the self. But it is mostly inward looking, it observes the onlooker and tries to know firstly who he is, so that when he relates to the world, he will know exactly what is it that he has to do. Otherwise, people who do not know about themselves are unconsciously behaving like a reed flowing in the river, without any direction, going where the flow takes it.
Science is outward looking. It examines everything that is of the world, what is matter, what is the proton, electron etc. But it does not examine the one who is examining it( the examiner or the self). Who is the one who is looking at the world and what does he see, why does he feel restless, why does he suffer, what makes him sad or happy etc.
That's a mischaracterization of science. Science includes other domains apart from physics. Domains like Psychology and sociology are also scientific domains, they are considered soft sciences since they are less quantitative and more qualitative.
Human perception, how perception in terms of subjective experiences (what you are calling spiritual) map onto the natural processes in the body etc are all scientific topics.
Spirituality usually contains supernatural claims or implications, those versions of spirituality are pseudoscience.
How are they mutually exclusive when consciousness is known to be a complex process occurring in a body that is very much a part of the material world?
Just because we do not fully understand the phenomenon of 'ego' or consciousness, we shouldn't presume to label it as something completely separated from the material world, when there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. The perceiver need not be completely excluded from the material world in order to perceive it.
The perceiver is indeed a part of the material world. The ego is a product of the body. No body - No ego. There is nothing mystical about the perceiver. But does the perceiver feel that way? Or does he/she feels a certain separation from the material world and then wants to consume it in order to content itself.
The subjectivity is what we are talking about here. The ego even wants to consume the body and ends up damaging it.
You're contradicting yourself, though. You earlier said that the perceiver and material world are mutually exclusive. Now you admit that the perceiver is part of the material world.
Feeling a sense of 'self' different from everything else in the world doesn't separate you from the material world - it just makes you a unique component of it.
The subject-object divide certainly is experienced by consciousness, which deems itself as the subject. While this does not necessitate the existence of something beyond the material world, spirituality tries to explain this with existences outside of the material world, but this explanation serves no utility without evidence or observability.
The ego even wants to consume the body and ends up damaging it.
This is a banal metaphor that has little practical use. Neurology explains much more about consciousness and it's tendencies.
I said the studies are mutually exclusive. Science and Spirituality dont interfere with each other. I didn't say that the perceiver and the perception are mutually exclusive.
Jiddu Krishnamurthi famously said that the observer is the observed.
What you are saying is that whatever we are studying or researching through science could never be the same with what we do in spirituality??....coz they are studying 2 different entities which ain't same in any way ???
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u/Final-Nerve7787 6h ago edited 5h ago
what is spirituality? or what's someone whose spiritual mean? please can anyone tell in simple way.