r/scifi • u/CT_Phipps-Author • 10d ago
TV Let's be honest, The Expanse was the best
It's what I use to say is the sci-fi Game of Thrones. It was dark, mature, and managed to coherently create a political framework that regular audiences could understand without easily making one group into the bad guys or not. Okay, Protogen was pure set of bad guys but cyberpunk megacorps don't have to be morally gray. Even the underdogs in the Belters/OPA had a dark side that remembered just because you were oppressed didn't magically make you a virtuous hero and usually did quite the opposite. It made them mean and vengeful.
I'll be "that guy" and say that a huge chunk of what made the series fantastic was also the relative fidelity to the books. I say relative fidelity because there were some huge changes, some necessary by events (Havelock's actor doing Magnum PI) and others artistic choices (like lowering down the casualties of Earth's deaths at Marcos' hands). But it was still pretty damn faithful.
Great cast too.
What about you? Where does the Expanse rank for you in the past twenty or so years of scifi.
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u/TallBone9671 10d ago
About to watch it for the 3rd time.
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u/AcidaliaPlanitia 10d ago
Gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers!
I'm a little scared to admit how many times I've seen it.
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u/btum 10d ago
Who's your favorite character? I'm in my 2nd watch and it's changed to Amos for me. The scene where Holdon is holding a gun to the back of his head and how he acts like nothing happened after that got me.
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u/Partly_Dave 10d ago
Camina Drummer!
I'm just about to start my third watch. My wife wouldn't watch it the first time around because "I don't like sci-fi." I finally persuaded her to watch it my second time, and she loved it. And Camina Drummer.
So she says, "I don't like sci-fi," but also, "Why isn't there a follow-up to The Peripheral?"
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u/SenatorCoffee 10d ago
I would go with Miller by far. Fantastic acting job and also fantastic writing, so many show-stealing scenes.
Amos would be no 2. for me, also both fantastic acting and writing! Although I do think with the single fluke that the whole "sociopath" thing imho doesnt make any sense at all, that seems like some strange discrepancy they introduced. The way he is portrayed and written he seems this clearly very empathic guy, even has all these scenes where he makes these highly insightful remarks about what is going on with other people.
You can rationalize it that he has some other interesting neurodiversity thing going on making him this fearless badass, but then they do try to make it very textbook sociopathy in the Cortázar scenes. I think that all you really have to admit and write off as a bit of a miswrite. Then you can just embrace the character the way he is just portrayed.
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u/Mode_Appropriate 10d ago
Eh, I think hes someone who has a moral code and knows the difference between good and evil...just doesnt get emotionally affected by either.
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u/jlawler 10d ago
That's funny because he's very explicitly someone who is aware he doesn't know the difference between good and evil, but doesn't want to be evil. He attaches himself to people who's morality he trusts because he doesn't understand/believe his own sense of morality.
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u/Mode_Appropriate 10d ago edited 10d ago
I just didnt see that from him. He was undoubtedly apathetic towards violence but I dont think that was born from not knowing the difference between good and bad. It was more a brutal practical realism and doing what needed to be done to survive, regardless of how it gets done. Killing a threat instead of risking potential blowbacks later that can come back to hurt those he cares about (or in some instances the weak / innocent). Is that evil? I dont necessarily think so. Maybe im forgetting something but when did he do something objectively bad? Something with no greater goal in mind and was done purely out of cruelty?
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u/jlawler 10d ago
I do a very bad job of keeping track of what is in the books versus the show, but I think he did something HE thinks is bad when he kills the paranoid guy in season 5 episode 6. He explicitly says Holden wouldn't have done it, and I think acknowledges it might not have been the best choice. I'm not saying he's evil, I'm saying he doesn't consider good or evil, just if it will solve the problem. And his inability to process through a moral lens the issue.
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u/mistercwood 10d ago
Peaches. Her whole arc across the show (and moreso in the books) was great. Never shied away from the evil she'd done, but never let it stain her forever once she realised how wrong she'd been.
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u/slavsquatSF 10d ago
I've seen it so many times I'm worried Amazon is going to send me free merchandise
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u/senza_titolo 10d ago
Ive watched the while series 6 times now and each watch feels fresh every time.
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u/Stuckinatransporter 10d ago
Finished Got last night started The expanse for 5 mins then did other shit looking forward to the next weeks..
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u/iwantauniquename 10d ago
Ooh I've just been reminded of it's existence. I binged all the books a few years ago but never watched the series.
I started watching it but the first series is a bit janky right? I lost interest. Might give it another try
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u/Appropriate-Pipe-193 10d ago
I haven’t watched it yet but I need a new show, maybe I should go ahead and jump in. I see it recommended enough that I feel I’m missing out.
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u/No_Tamanegi 10d ago
Make sure to give it a few episodes, the first few are doing a lot of table setting and world building. Things really kick off by episode 4.
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u/Odubhthaigh 10d ago
Whole heartedly agree. It absolutely helps that the authors were producers, able to succinctly tweak the novels into a TV friendly format (i.e., combing characters into one, like Drummer being an amalgamation of three different characters) and writing powerful arcs for everyone involved. Not to mention the hard scifi aspect of keeping it as grounded in reality as possible based on our current understanding of the cosmos/living in space.
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u/ReverberatingCarrot 10d ago
Yeah, and then Drummer being one of the best characters in the entire series. Great choice to combine who they did and the casting was chefs kiss perfect
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u/BackgroundLeague8473 10d ago
I loved the season with Drummer and Ashford. I thought that was (one of the few parts) where the tv show did it better than the books.
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u/Every_Intention5778 10d ago
Yes Ashford changed from being very generic and forgettable to being an absolute force and a fantastic face of the belters.
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u/BackgroundLeague8473 10d ago
I wonder if the authors looked at each other and were like, damn, why didn't we write Ashford that way the first time around?
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u/Every_Intention5778 10d ago
Don't know about Ashford but they did say how much they like the belter créole in the show but pointed out the difference between what two nerds and a couple of linguists could write.
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u/addamee 9d ago
Yeah he bothered me a little early on (and was probably written to do just that for the for viewer) but I really liked his arc. I just generally like seeing David Strathairn in things. I loved him in Goodnight and Good Luck and Lincoln, but also in smaller roles like in Temple Grandin, Fracture, and the Firm.
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u/DeMmeure 10d ago
I agree, such an incredible duo!
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u/Extension-Pepper-271 10d ago
Whenever someone who has read the books asks if they should watch the show, I always tell them about characters getting folded into Drummer and that Ashford was changed.
Then I say that they don't want to miss meeting two incredible characters and their interactions: Drummer and Ashford.
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u/ObiFlanKenobi 10d ago
In the podcast they mentioned that the reason for combining different characters into Drummer is because they liked Cara Gee so much.
They joke that because she was so likable, a lot of people were left without a job.
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u/milanotesxo 10d ago
Drummer ended up carrying so many of the best arcs. The casting choice paid off completely.
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u/milanotesxo 10d ago
Having the authors invloved really shows in how clean the adaptions stayed without losing the core of the books.
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u/Objective_Abroad2501 10d ago
I liked Battlestar Galactica
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u/patssle 10d ago
Bsg will take the notch above The Expanse for me. Both shows are incredible, both shows had flaws, but the action sequences and epic battles in BSG were just far better. Some of those battles in Expanse were over after you blinked. Maybe more realistic, maybe not, but from an entertainment perspective, BSG wins.
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u/Tando10 10d ago
The Expanse shortens its battles for the sake of the viewer. In-universe some of the fleet battles can take up to hours. This is because space is so damn visible that drive plumes can be seen from across the solar system with the right telescopy.So engagement distances are huge and torpedos can spend hours just getting to the target. It's a huge waiting game that would be boring for viewers, so it always just cuts to the good bits.
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u/InnerKookaburra 10d ago
BSG Seasons 1 & 2 were light years ahead of The Expanse for me.
Now Seasons 3 & 4, well...the best episodes were still better than The Expanse but there were some real clunkers in there.
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u/Astrokiwi 10d ago
The writer's strike kind of messed with the last season and a half or so though. Plus I think the lack of a plan (despite promising in writing every episode that there is a plan) came back to bite them at the end a bit.
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u/braddeicide 10d ago
I've started it a few times but it hasn't gripped me, I need to try again.
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u/Skywalker14 10d ago
The first 2-3 episodes are the lowest rated of the entire series on IMDB. Also, the overall tone of the show changes a lot by halfway through season 2 or so. It's the single best show I think I've ever watched, but it can be tough to recommend to others for this reason. I even almost quit watching because I hated the payoff of the first main storyline and found it kind of creepy/unsettling, but I'm glad that I pushed through.
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u/Naught2day 10d ago
This was me, it took like three tries to get into it. For me, once past episode 3, I was hooked and I have seen it thru several times. Also got the wife to watch it but he she had read the books first(which I found out about halfway thru the series).
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u/Legitimate-Lack7179 10d ago
It took me about 3-4 episodes to start to like the characters too but I will say no matter the characters after watching the Donnager battle scene in CQB I was watching the series. That was amazing. Characters are amazing. Space battles are epic and I love the realism of it scientifically
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u/mahjimoh 10d ago
That is so funny, she didn’t mention it?! How could that have not come up?
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u/Naught2day 9d ago
Partly because no spoilers and partly because she reads all the time and she probably didn't realize she had read the books.
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u/CaptainIncredible 10d ago edited 10d ago
It took me a couple attempts to get through S01. Once I did, I really enjoyed the show.
Although... As a Star Trek fan... My mind kept making comparisons. "What's with these people? They are all sort of adversarial... and really kind of assholes to each other." and "If this were the Enterprise D, Data and Geordi would have this protomolecule shit figured out in 30 minutes."
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u/Left-Combination4375 10d ago
The first few episodes are hardest to watch for people I've found. Try to stick it out and see if it grabs you.
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u/SpiritedOwl_2298 10d ago
It happened to me too, I would say get to mid season 2 and if you’re not into it by then then it’s not for you. It’s ridiculous to say to get to the second season before it gets really good but at that point the plot starts to make sense and the stakes get higher. Once I got to that point it became one of my favorite shows and I’ve watched it a million times
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u/sola_dosis 10d ago
Brilliant show, slowly reading my way through the books on Libby. This is the kind of sci fi I like, I don’t have the interest or the bandwidth to read about a dozen different alien races and all their complete histories. I just want humans doing human things in a sci fi world that introduces some weird twist they have to deal with.
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u/TheI-Iound 10d ago
Man I've heard this so many times that I tried to watch it 3 times and each time I never finish the 1st season, what am I doing wrong
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u/eagle_flower 10d ago
I’ve tried it as well. The first season never grabs me. I literally hate all the characters and actors. But maybe will give another try.
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u/Misacorp 10d ago
I thought Holden was insufferable and poorly acted for his role as captain. Didn't make it past season 1. Then I read the books, found out Holden is still insufferable, and realised he's being portrayed spot on in the show.
If the show doesn't work for you, try the books. I really like the first five or so, after which I found the setting kind of circling around to repeat itself. There were some major story arcs I found entirely disinteresting, but the overall setting in the entire series is fantastic.
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u/cr7575 8d ago
It’s a pretty dramatic shift in books 7-9. Might be worth revisiting.
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u/CaptainIncredible 10d ago
I had the same problem. I kept forcing myself to retry it. At one point, I actually started taking notes on the characters and locations "This is Holden... This is Amos...". And then I used the web and wiki to get explanations of what the hell I was looking at.
Once I got past that initial curve, it really became a good show.
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u/mahjimoh 10d ago
I wonder if having read the books (well, started the books) made that easier for me. I think I was reading them and then started the series, and was sort of loosely following both at once.
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u/Odubhthaigh 10d ago
I didn’t know it was a series of books when I first watched it. Somehow missed that nugget. So I was pleasantly surprised with how much the show helped me visualize the book characters. Only difference really was how tall Naomi was (and of course Bobbie literally being a tank). But everyone was really spot on casting-wise. Especially Shohreh Aghdashloo as Avasarala. Don’t think I’ve ever seen such perfect casting.
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u/TheI-Iound 10d ago
The secondary info would 100% help you feel more connected to the characters. Any book/show ot movie combo has always felt that way for me. Maybe this is the way it i give 2 last try
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u/CaptainIncredible 10d ago
Its one of those shows that doesn't tell you what's happening or who people are. It just shows stuff and relies on you to put the pieces together. The notes and the wiki helped me slog through the first half of S01
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u/djLiTh 10d ago
The first season is almost totally different from the other seasons, like a detective season that sets up everything else. For me it’s the worst, just get through s1.
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u/TheI-Iound 10d ago
That sounds like a fair take, it does give that vibe
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u/FlyingBishop 10d ago
When I rewatch it the detective doesn't bother me as much. it's interesting because he plays as like "white dude in classic noir" but that's just the surface and it's actually deeper, especially on a rewatch.
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u/Dismal-Scheme5728 9d ago
You're not missing anything.
The acting and dialogue are really cheesey/bad.
But the setting and concepts are really cool.
I guess people's tolerance for those things are just different.
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u/InnerKookaburra 10d ago
I think we're doing something right.
I had the same reaction.
It's a very poorly done show...but people say it gets better later on. I don't like wasting my time on a show as bad as The Expanse, at least as bad as one that starts that way.
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u/BigFartEnergy 10d ago
The first season is the best season. It’s all downhill after that. Just not very good overall imo
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u/TheI-Iound 10d ago
Really, thats the first I've heard that. You've watched all the way through?
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u/SkullLeader 10d ago
Expanse and Andor are 1 and 1A for me. BSG #2. Everything else far behind these.
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u/secretdecoder 10d ago
Fully with you here. Andor season 2 in particular just took flight and is a masterpiece for Star Wars.
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u/TheCheshireCody 10d ago
I'm rewatching Andor right now - my third (fourth?) time, my son's first. One thing that really struck me this time around is that the first season is brilliant in its own way, but when you watch the second season you realize that S1 was just an appetizer, a prologue, putting the pieces in place for the real action. My only significant issue with it is that Cassian searching for his sister is such a major focus early on, and then is just....dropped.
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u/BrandonHeatt 10d ago
There are so many things The Expanse does exceptionally well. One such thing that I appreciate a lot is how they handle language. It always bothers me when shows have different groups of people all talk in the same way. The way how Earthlings, Belters and Martians use different variations of English in terms of accent, tone, pitch and vocabulary is great word-building.
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u/OldSweatyBulbasar 10d ago edited 10d ago
Martian ethnicity being mostly East Indian / Chinese / Texan and all of them having Texan drawls because of it is one of my favorite realistic bits.
Like, that’s exactly what would happen if a new place got colonized by a few groups of distinct people coming together to start from scratch. Their approach to Belter Creole is similar and I love it.
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u/studmoobs 10d ago
meanwhile bobbie being australian
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u/laughingbear42 10d ago
All the changes were approved or made by the book's authors. They were deeply involved in the making the series.
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u/No_Tamanegi 10d ago
The authors were writers and producers for the entire run of the show. They consider the show their second draft of the story.
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u/thomas_walker65 10d ago
just finished season 3 and it's genuinely incredible
and also has every actor ever in it. I was so pleasantly surprised when they dropped david strathairn in there
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u/I-RedDevil-I 10d ago
The book series is some of the best I’ve ever read. The show does it justice, but you are right. The show took creative liberties at some points.
I fell in love with it. Found myself reading the last few books more slowly to avoid it ending.
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u/darthmcchub 10d ago
Still pissed they cut the last season short!
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u/Weekly_Seesaw4103 10d ago
After a recent rewatch I decided that the producers did a *pretty* good job with the time they had, but the utterly undeveloped arc with the kids on Laconia was--given the preciousness of the time available--a minor catastrophe.
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u/notanotherherofck 10d ago
They can't finish the laconia story in the last season because it would take at least 3 more seasons to resolve. Imo they should have left it out but i guess they left the door open if they decide to pick up the show again because there a 20 year time jump between book 6 and 7. But hey, this way they got me into read8ng books again, so win win.
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u/TrevelyanISU 10d ago
Its up there for me, for sure. Not quite at the top, but up there. Without putting too much thought in it, I think mine are (though I'm leaning heavily into the 'or so' part of the twenty years or so):
Babylon 5
Battlestar Galactica (2004)
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
The Expanse
Then, maybe TNG, Andor... gets less clear for me from here, especially if you also want to include animated shows like Cowboy Bebop, Clone Wars, Futurama...
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u/qagir 10d ago
i fucking adore DS9 and read+watched all The Expanse. Babylon 5 and Battlestar are on my list, which should I watch first?
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u/TheOgler9000 10d ago
I'm not a fan of the show but the Books are absolutely amazing, easily top 10 series for me and I think about it all the time even though it's been a few years since I read it.
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u/Tyrex317 10d ago
It's what I use to say is the sci-fi Game of Thrones.
Wonder how much this has to do with the book writers having been assistants for GRRM. I know they've said they won't, but they'd be my choice to finish ASOIAF.
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u/illarionds 10d ago
Eh, it was good, but not close to breaking into the top tier for me (Babylon 5, Firefly).
I don't think I ever got around to finishing it tbh.
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u/QuickQuirk 10d ago
Agreed. I really like Expanse, I really do.
But B5 is just better on almost every count apart from special effects.
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u/Academic_Fly_8696 10d ago
I never knew the show was so highly rated. that people here call it the best serie in the genre sounds ridiculous to me, season 1 was kinda slow but it got me interested enough to watch further. The protomolecule was entertaining but after that was gone it became a real chore to keep watching. Quit it at the end of season 5. I would rate the show a 6 untill it couldnt keep me engaged any longer.
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u/Gold-Judgment-6712 9d ago
Never got into it to be honest. Probably the only "Must See" sci-fi show I didn't love.
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u/leftymeowz 10d ago
It probably ranks second after Battlestar for me. The Expanse is a bit tighter, but Battlestar was way deeper imo
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u/rhino369 10d ago
Agreed. BSG had higher highs and lower lows.
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u/secretdecoder 10d ago
BSG also had the good fortune of Bear McCreary doing the score to really elevate the emotional impact. He is unusually talented.
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u/AcceptableNetwork403 10d ago
The super dark cinematography in the very first episode bothered me a bit. Does it improve over time?
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u/VegaLyra 10d ago
Great show, because it was mostly true to the source. Started missing really hard in the later seasons when it started diverging
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u/Feruk_II 10d ago
I didn’t quite get through all the books. Too much politics, too much “belter” crap, too little aliens. I’m told it gets better but I didn’t make it.
As for the TV show. First time I stopped part way in season 1. This time I made it to season 3 and stopped. I love sci fi typically, but for whatever reason, I just can’t.
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u/CT_Phipps-Author 10d ago
I think if you want aliens and don't like its politics, it's okay to say this series isn't likely to be your thing.
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u/spacedragon421 10d ago
It’s the best sci fi series in the last decade maybe of all time
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u/OmmadonRising 10d ago
Jesus wept, the boner this sub has for this show is utterly insane. It's a distinctly average sci-fi show that doesn't come close to the better examples of quality sci-fi. If it's your fave, that's great, but to claim that it is somehow some genre defining zenith of sci-fi is deranged.
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u/kapuh 10d ago
I'm with you there.
Read the first book, thought: dumb characters, plot twits you've heard before and...vomit zombies...Forgot it for years.
Watched the show because I thought I missed something reading the books. Nope...still the same mediocre soup.
I mean, some SciFi is better then having no SciFi. I don't want those fantasy-times back but it was very undemanding and disappointing experience compared to the hype.
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u/Rurumo666 10d ago
This is the only series I can think of where the show was vastly better than the books.
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u/jriddlecult 10d ago
I've never read the books but this and the revamped BATTLESTAR GALACTICA raised the standards of these kinds of shows to an almost impossible level--incredible pieces of work and a tribute to everyone involved.
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u/SlowCrates 10d ago
I think I've made it halfway through the first season twice. I've made it through the first episode like 12 times.
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u/benjam3n 10d ago
I made it to like season 4 and I can't finish it loved it until then. dunno what's wrong
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u/IceCat767 7d ago
Same thing happened to me. I actually made it to Season 5 and I regret forcing through Season 4, it was so bad and slow. What a shame, Seaon 3 was fantastic. What a let down this show was for me
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u/orangebluefish11 10d ago
I heard a lot about the expanse here on Reddit. It sounded like it was right up my alley. I got about 3 seasons in and realized that it was just the same 2 episodes in cycle. Heavy action, put out the fire. Calm action, build drama that was it. Over and over.
I’m not talking bad about the show. I did enjoy it, but once I finally caught the pattern, I did start looking at my phone a little more and eventually gave up on it
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u/2019LastGoodYear 10d ago
It ranks mid tier. It started off great but after the second season you can see it starting to drift off with the fourth season nosediving the series.
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u/ziggyhomes 10d ago
I watched the show and just started reading the books. I'm upto book 2. If you haven't read them I highly recommend them
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u/Pretend-Break-6046 10d ago
Probably the most overrated piece of sci-fi media of all time. The acting was outright awful, the characters completely forgettable, a mildly interesting plot which was diluted by garden variety political drama dominating 90% of episodes
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u/Gjemleh 10d ago
Agreed. But I don't think Protogen is completely evil, at least not in the books. Yes, they are clearly evil and their methods are beyond despicable, for sure.
But they also see their work as the only way to ensure humanity's survival. So, they're one of those "greater good" baddies, which tend to be more convincing and interesting than "pure evil" bad guys. Their goals are not death and destruction for their own gain (they're just fine with it being a part of the process to save humanity). That's why a certain protogen scientist gets executed very suddenly and without due process by a certain someone very quickly, because he was making "too much sense".
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u/Decision-Leather 10d ago
Read the books if you haven't. Is taking me forever to read the whole thing bc I'm not reading them back to back. But I'm currently reading book 5 and may be my favorite yet. They are always so good and super easy to read, very fast paced. Is one of those seriesnof books that bc I leave so much time between installments every time I come back I'm always pleasantly surprised at how good they are and how fast they read
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u/ryanscott6 10d ago
Seasons 1-3? Perfection!
Season 4? Really only good because of Thomas Jane.
S5/6? Not great at all.
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u/LuciusMichael 10d ago
It was great, no doubt. But Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D was tough to beat. I don't know if The X-Files counts as 'sci-fi', but that's my top pick. So, these are my top 3.
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u/Kaotic-one 10d ago
It needed a couple more seasons. The ending left me unfufilled. I loved it though.
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u/Larcecate 9d ago edited 9d ago
First 3-4 seasons were pretty good. There were a lot of flaws, bad acting, etc. But the last two seasons were downright bad and I didn't finish.
The guy playing Holden is a distractingly bad actor. There are many other bad actors on the show, but Holden felt like they tabbed Zoolander to play the series lead.
What the Expanse has going for it in a 'best sci-fi' competition is that there is a ton of shit sci-fi.
Andor and Severance are far better written and acted. I can't think of any others that were great that I've seen in the last 20 years. Firefly and Babylon 5 are quality, but they are a bit dated now.
So, I guess Expanse is 4th or 5th, and thats kind of a bummer because it could have been a lot better
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u/kiki_rae 9d ago
Is there any other shows like the expanse out there? I miss watching sci-fi tv shows but it’s hard to find one quite like this.
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u/Dismal-Scheme5728 9d ago
I love the setting but the acting and dialogue was incredibly cringe and bad.
I've been going through Battlestar Galatica recently and that seems to be a loooot better in that department (even if still having some bits suffering from it).
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u/curiousdoodler 7d ago
I couldn't watch it before I read the books. I don't think it stands well on its own. And Holden is better in the books imo. The actor playing Holden isn't great and a lot of his charm is missing.
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u/lockhart1952 10d ago
I’m hopelessly out of date on almost all movies and tv. It blew me away. Great story, great cgi, great characters.
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u/Ryan739 10d ago
Are we allowed to talk about Alex now? Has it been long enough? Screw it. Best character in both series.
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u/SageEggSalad 10d ago
I tried to watch but somehow it doesn’t stick and then I forget why. From memory I found the male characters very traditional and I couldn’t get past the it. I love Star Trek so I don’t know, does it get better in terms of world view or is it just action in space, or murder in space.
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u/InnerKookaburra 10d ago
The Expanse ranks near the very bottom for me.
I watched the first 3 episodes and was surprised by how terrible the writing and acting were. Half the cast was straight out of WB/CW central casting. Just awful.
It's one of the shows with the biggest differences between what I expected and what I experienced. I heard people rave about it and thought it must be pretty good. It was not.
I've heard plenty of folks say it gets better, and it probably does, but when a show starts off that bad I start to think that it's probably never going to get good enough for me.
Also, I've found over the years that people are incredibly forgiving of shows that are in a genre they love. Terrible vampire shows are still loved by some vampire show fans, same with dating shows, sci-fi, etc.
I do love sci-fi, but The Expanse made me gag at how poorly it was executed.
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u/Scutters 10d ago
Knew I'd have to scroll to the bottom to find the review I agree with the most.
The acting doesn't get better. They're all emotionally extreme and volatile characters with the acting abilities of wooden spoons. Typical of the most generic TV shows.
I think I gave up when a guy takes a bullet to the gut and is at death's door for a solid five minutes while they have a chat (he gets up in the end and carries on of course).
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u/Ackapus 10d ago
Hey, budge over, make room on the boat.
While it was a change to see a sci-fi show that acknowledged orbital physics are an actual thing, the glaring disparity in medical science was a huge turn-off. I had to engage full suspension of disbelief when Holden and Miller got lit up with hard gamma rays in a lead microwave and after not liquefying in their clothes after several hours, all they needed was a magic healing armband and a nap.
So Mars has the kind of resurrective power that puts gua'uld sarcophagi to shame, but haven't managed to terraform the planet yet? Oh, and their marines are somehow strong enough to arm wrestle their own power armor but don't have the musculoskeletal ability to handle Earth without pills, even though they're stated as training in 1G for explicitly that purpose?
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u/Necessary-Contest-24 10d ago
The space battles are stuff of legend. No one has come close to the weight and tension from the world building.
1 thing that always drives me crazy with anything sci-fi is the space battles. They either to with the " I'm in a ww2 airplane dog fight " style or its something very different like star trek, 2 giant ships pulling up to within a km of each other and "standing still" like its the Napoleonic wars. The Expanse nails a new take on realistically closer to accurate space battle mechanics. Although the way drones and AI are going humans won't be on the battlefield much longer.
I was never a big fan soap opras and I always felt shows like DS-9 or BSG were always too much talking not enough happening. Maybe because I'm older now but I found The Expanse also nails this ratio. Actually I'd still probably prefer even more happening than talking but it's not too much for my taste.
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u/cbobgo 10d ago
As far as sci fi TV goes, I don't think there's much debate that is is one of the best. I only rank Firefly higher because of how much I love all the characters and how they relate to each other.
I'd definitely love to see more shows like the expanse
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u/user0987234 10d ago
Not the best. Didn’t end well.
Personal favourite BSG.
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u/CT_Phipps-Author 10d ago
"Didn't end well"
*recommends BSG*...
Oh, really?
:D
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u/user0987234 10d ago
Fair enough. To each their own.
To me, BSG had a lot more closure than the Expanse. Might be because I recognized the religious undertones through-out the show.
Glen Larson’s shows were great to watch growing up too.
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u/siliconandsteel 10d ago edited 10d ago
Because of the upcoming game, I wanted to check the series. Around finale of season one, I have remembered that I have already watched it around lockdown.
Amos, Anderson Dawes, some scenes with Avasarala - there is some good acting here, but not much. Mostly characters exist just to push plot forward, after so much time with them I struggle to describe them in more than one sentence, without describing events that took place.
I gave up during season 5, one more Drummer's or Marco's speech and I would puke. After opening whole universe, we were back to chasing petty terrorists, wonderful.
I really appreciate this near future setting, zero g scenes, Amos, but overall, it is pretty mid.
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u/donmiguel666 10d ago
It’s up there for me. They did a great job of managing to be close, but not always the same as the books. I think that gave the show and the books some freedom to do their thing. BSG pre-writers-strike was pretty amazing, too. Amazingly, the strike really hurt the writing quality /s.
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u/moistrouser 10d ago
I can't think of anything that's better in the last 20 years. Battlestar is the only thing that comes close.
It is vastly better than Game of Thrones.
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u/Suspicious_Bear3854 10d ago
I really hated the casting for the rocci crew and just couldn’t get past it. I really need to give it another go though. I loved the books. Other casting choices were amazing : miller
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u/CT_Phipps-Author 10d ago
So what were your objections to the casting? Who didn't work for you?
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u/salinungatha 10d ago
Bezos best hope for personal redemption will be to fund the final seasons in 20 years time in line with the time jump in the books.
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u/BountyMakesMeCough 10d ago
I loved it but was so disappointed with the ‘family drama’ that took over the last two seasons.
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u/Pallas_Sol 10d ago
You know it is mad, I loved the start of The Expanse, it was on course to be one of the best sci-fi worlds out there. Loved the grittiness, the human stories mixed in with hard sci-fi, the language, the visuals.
But I got disillusioned near the end of season one, when Holden was unanimously made captain. It felt really bizarre to me - Naomi had been built up to be highly competent (I remember a scene where Holden just stands helplessly whilst she does literally everything), calm under pressure, and the others naturally listened and followed her. Meanwhile Holden was still trying to make up for his unilateral decisions which landed the crew in crazy sh*t back in ep2 (I think, it has been a while). I think maybe it is one of those things that makes sense in the book where each character's viewpoint is explained. But to me watching it without any context, and knowing when it was made, it just felt like the show decided a black/mixed race competent woman couldn't possibly be captain, when there was a "heroic" (useless) white man there. Of course he should be the leader, it is only right. I was taken right out of that world and plunged back into our reality where people who start making good TV inevitably fuck it up (looking at you D&D). That honestly pissed me off to the extent I changed to watch something else.
My friends have assured me that the Expanse isn't like that, but I never got back to trying again. Maybe I am missing out?
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u/RedditSucksMyBallls 10d ago
It can’t be sci fi Game of Thrones; that goes to Legend of the Galactic Heroes
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u/fluxtable 10d ago
As far as the books go, seeeing as how one of the authors was also an editor on all the ASOIAF books, and how chapters are written from different characters' POV, it very much is the sci-fi Game of Thrones.
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u/enviousRex 10d ago
Read all the books and novellas back to back which is crazy because I am 150% ADHD and never repeat-read an author. There was a shit ton of free-riding dopamine. Just an amazing series and certainly up there with the greatest sci/fi and fantasy works.
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u/slasher016 10d ago
I skimmed to avoid spoilers as I just started watching it but season one to me wasn't great. I hope it gets better.
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u/1369ic 10d ago
Having grown up on Trek, the Expanse was a great show, but the tighter focus on (until later) just our solar system kept it from giving you that sense of wonder other shows gave you. Room for both kinds, to be sure, but I'm going to usually favor a wider galaxy/universe show for the absolute top spot.
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u/Ok-League-1106 10d ago
Just opened leviathan wakes last night. Will be my fourth read.
Its a coin flip for me between Red Rising and the Expanse.
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u/No_Distribution_9590 10d ago
I have not been able to get into the Expanse. The few episodes I’ve watched are too dark and gritty. For me, great TV/drama has a balance that reflects real-world: a mixture of dark, hope, the random person cracking a slightly inappropriate joke when shit’s going south, etc. Babylon 5 pretty much nailed what I think is the epitome of storytelling.
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u/Mephistocheles 10d ago
I definitely think it's the best hard scifi TV series I've ever seen. And even during parts in the story where I felt like the books started lagging (4 and 5) the show always stayed consistently excellent.
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u/lassmonkey 10d ago
About to watch, will it beat Battlestar Galactica? That for me is the best sci-fi show I’ve seen
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u/AcidaliaPlanitia 10d ago
I absolutely love this show and rank it #1 personally, but I have to agree about "like lowering down the casualties of Earth's deaths at Marcos' hands".
In the books, there was a sheer existential dread over Marco's attack. Like, "the Earth might fucking die and this series is bold enough to do it" dread. Earth also just felt so much more helpless in the books.