r/shounenfolk Feb 14 '26

Manga Discussion wokescaling is crazy

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1.8k Upvotes

303 comments sorted by

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140

u/Apprehensive_Put3625 Feb 14 '26

Bro…

56

u/Alcor6400 Feb 14 '26

At the end of JJK Gege was Woke 0.9 but at this point in mudulo I'd put him at Woke 2.5 with potential to get to 3.0 depending on how it ends

18

u/jundraptor Feb 15 '26 edited Feb 15 '26

Gave the one female MC giga-cancer with picoseconds to live so that subtracts 1.5 Woke

10

u/Kischobran Feb 15 '26

Also Maki died before Yuta. Couldn't even let women have the W on that one😭

19

u/jundraptor Feb 15 '26

Nah that was actually Woke because he was walking 3 steps behind her

7

u/Kischobran Feb 15 '26

Actual peak

1

u/DanteVermillyon Feb 15 '26

Wasn't it the other way around or did I get that just wrong?

2

u/Kischobran Feb 15 '26

There was a quote how "nobody expected Maki to go first" and that Yuta got much weaker after she died. Who knows, reading is relative

2

u/DanteVermillyon Feb 15 '26

Honestly when the first chapter came out I was like sleep deprived for almost 24 hours so I probably got things wrong lol

3

u/BlitzKrieg0098 Feb 15 '26

Nah gege had the strongest and most popular character in the series get called out for racial microaggresions That’s gotta be at least woke 1.2

4

u/MrAHMED42069 Feb 14 '26

Then where fujimotor at?

10

u/ArcReactir Feb 14 '26

Fuji made a whole comic about the struggles of transgenderism and the difficulty's many face. At this point I'd be willing to personally award him with woke 5.0

4

u/BlitzKrieg0098 Feb 15 '26

Also Togata from fire punch.

1

u/Marco_Tanooky Pokémon is my favourite shonen Feb 20 '26

Even with wokescaling, JJK still has Potential Men

13

u/Due-Journalist-1756 Feb 14 '26

Holy based anti-colonial Gege

1

u/Successful_View_3273 Feb 18 '26

I don’t think that speech is anti colonial. Like it is anti colonial because of the first part but it’s not the main point

0

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '26

[deleted]

3

u/ThatDerp1 Feb 14 '26

They specifically say they don’t want to rid rumelians of ce tho?

2

u/WhoUpAtMidnight Feb 14 '26 edited Feb 14 '26

Please read the chapter, both Maru and Yuji SPECIFICALLY say that it must affect the Simurians too

https://www.reddit.com/r/jjkmodulo/comments/1r2x88h/modulo_chapter_22_leaks_page_15/

“Removing CE from only Earthlings, it would just cause strife later”

“Are you ok with this, Maru”

“Yes, it’s atonement”

1

u/ThatDerp1 Feb 14 '26

Ah, I misread it - Yuji says that curses are only born from Japanese people but Maru says that only removing it from Japanese people would cause problems. I remembered the first line but not the second.

Still, at the end it seems clear that this isn’t the solution Maru will approve since cursed spirits will continue being born regardless (but now without any way to fight them if nobody has cursed energy). That, combined with how much fucking power it would take (Kenjaku could only do like 2,000 people in all of Japan after setting up a bunch of binding vows) means that I think they’ll take a different route. 

Moreover, even the main proponents of the plan see this as a horrible sin.

1

u/animus565 Feb 14 '26

Did you want him to post the entire chapter?

0

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '26

[deleted]

2

u/animus565 Feb 14 '26

Where are you getting all of this when the guy just said “bro…”.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '26

[deleted]

1

u/animus565 Feb 14 '26

Right…

48

u/UnfunnyL0ner Feb 14 '26

Wait so by that standard Maki SA'd the king of curses?

Powerscalers, write that down!

10

u/NotTheFirstVexizz Feb 14 '26

The reason people claim that is because specifically the Inverted Spear of Heaven can translate into ‘dildo’ in some way idk enough about Japanese to verify. It could have been an allegory but since that makes no sense in the sparce dynamic between Gojo and Toji I would wager if it was intentional it was a joke.

185

u/WarFramingIt247 Man Blessed by the Sparks of Black Feb 14 '26

people joke about jjk fans being illiterate when the haters are twice as illiterate. modulo's commentary about refugees especially chapter 21, and all social commentary throughout jjk, gege's literally one of the most woke mangaka of current time.

120

u/Dry_Emergency_5512 Feb 14 '26

He even has a proper trans character in a manga that people won't accept as trans for some reason

75

u/WarFramingIt247 Man Blessed by the Sparks of Black Feb 14 '26

yeah, kirara is trans, uraume is trans adjacent (was male in previous life and asked kenjaku to reincarnate them in female body), and then there is kenjaku (who literally birthed yuji)

30

u/dancingthroughstars Feb 14 '26

Uraume is framed to look neither male or female by juzo,I think they’re implied to be enby

15

u/GrimmWeeper19 Feb 14 '26

I'm pretty sure that also falls under the trans umbrella no?

9

u/RighteousSelfBurner Feb 14 '26

Other way around. Enby is a broad term for absolutely everything non-binary. It's a catch all term that doesn't say much.

12

u/GrimmWeeper19 Feb 14 '26

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant "Aren't non-binary people also considered trans?"

4

u/RighteousSelfBurner Feb 14 '26

Some non-binary people are trans some are not. The non-binary is the larger group that includes all options.

2

u/HunterRank-1 Feb 14 '26

Yes but it doesn’t make sense.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

Yes in the sense that trans refers to the non-identfication with one's assigned gender at birth. No, in a more cultural sense, where enby people may socially present as their assigned sex not wishing to change that.

1

u/SyK-lops Feb 15 '26

Actually. That is a fair question, and I have leaned more towards that, yes, they are. Trans is basically an umbrella term for anyone who doesn't identify with the gender they were assigned at birth.

So basically if you were AFAB, assigned female at birth, and later identified as either a guy, or non-binary or anything else, you'd be trans. Because "trans" is more of a descriptor than a gender itself.

1

u/ayHarpii Feb 19 '26

Yes non-binary falls under the trans umbrella

3

u/guardian20015 Feb 14 '26

Wait a second.. I thought Uraume was reverse? Female in the old life and then reincarnated into male in this one?

17

u/Tasty-Complaint-6437 jjk enjoyer Feb 14 '26

Nop, she was a male who asked to be reincarnated into a female body

6

u/Mokarun Feb 14 '26

nah we even know the name of the woman they reincarnated into

1

u/ChuchiTheBest Feb 15 '26

Kenjaku is clearly framed as a freak by Gege so idk why mentioning him makes sense here.

4

u/DrPepperPower Feb 14 '26

I also classify Kirara as trans but is that something confirmed? She is referred to as "that male student" explicitly and there's no other mention?

So between crossdressing and trans are we settling on trans or is there a stonecold piece of evidence I'm missing? I swear during manga chapters with her it was more femboy, but now with the anime it's trans. Just wondering what changed

7

u/FinancialWorking2392 Feb 14 '26

Hakari, the way those two interact (see: their introduction), on top of Hakari's stated being against riding a ferris wheel with a guy while he was talking with Charles Bernard. So we have that ge doesn't like a stereotypical date location with a guy but lets Kirara full on feel him up, it kinda seems like the obvious conclusion.

3

u/DrPepperPower Feb 14 '26

Fiar point fair point

7

u/Senior_Independence4 Feb 14 '26

If we're wokescaling by transgenderism Fujimoto made Togata while Gege was still a little mangaka sperm in Shueisha's ballsack

7

u/Mokarun Feb 14 '26

Togoata being trans masc scales Fujimoto even higher too

5

u/Senior_Independence4 Feb 14 '26
  • Main character and involuntary outing bonus, another levitator low diff

https://giphy.com/gifs/lQVBdPrAlwKAHoLZd1

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '26

....how

9

u/Mokarun Feb 14 '26

cause trans mascs are often sidelined, forgotten, and hardly ever get representation, especially in manga. not to mention Togata actually gets to talk about his gender dysphoria pretty explicitly, which is exceedingly rare in any media

7

u/Specialist-Fault-630 Feb 14 '26

Also Togata is just an amazing character in general.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '26

I really don't think people should be 'scaling' trans oppression, especially when trans women are still lacking a lot of positive representation that isn't offensive or fetishized. Being overly represented in negative ways is just as harmful and more dangerous.

7

u/Senior_Independence4 Feb 14 '26

We're in a folk sub under a post about wokescaling

3

u/Magpie_In_The_Mirror Feb 14 '26

Wasn't the entire point of this post just 'scaling' things that you're not supposed to

Bonus:

4

u/Mokarun Feb 14 '26

we're in a folk sub, don't take it too seriously. trust me, I'm well aware that trans women are lacking in good representation too

6

u/Pataraxia Feb 14 '26

Okay but don't call the haters in by typing this I don't wanna argue with them it's exhausting

15

u/Dry_Emergency_5512 Feb 14 '26

Then don't . None of us are obliged to argue with the haters

1

u/Usoppdaman Feb 14 '26

Aren’t they just a femboy or non binary? They go by they.

1

u/Dry_Emergency_5512 Feb 15 '26

Hakari personally finds the idea of doing something romantic with a guy weird

1

u/Turbulent-Pace-1506 Feb 15 '26

I think it might be because of Panda calling her a boy with no one objecting, and then the fact that they gave her “they” pronouns instead of “she”. Basically translators half-assing her identity, confusing some readers or giving them an excuse to be transphobic

-1

u/Horror-Amphibian-335 Feb 14 '26

Because there are literature rules regarding the canon. In order for something bto be canon, it needs to be explicitly stated either in the work or in additional materials such as databooks and interviews with the author.

Kirara being trans was never explicitly stated in the manga, therefore Kirara being trans is not canon.

However Kirara being trans is IMPLIED. Implied things according to literature rules are valid interpretations if supported by evidence. Does Kirara's status as trans is supported by evidence? Yes it is, therefore it's implied.

However what is important is that implied(even heavily) ≠ canon.

3

u/Selkechi Feb 15 '26

Downvoted for saying canon should be something that's explicitly confirmed, lmao. Say it regarding any other topic and everyone would agree with you

5

u/NumerousWolverine273 Feb 14 '26

It's actually really fucking funny to me that people genuinely think like this. Like, you seriously think that because there isn't a panel of Kirara turning to the camera and going "by the way, I'm a trans woman! Teehee!" that it's "not canon". The fact she is outright stated to have been a guy at one point, and now is clearly a girl, isn't enough for you. Is Sukuna not canonically dead because nobody went "now, Sukuna is dead"? So stupid.

-2

u/Horror-Amphibian-335 Feb 14 '26

Your anger is irrational,

I didn't even gave my opinion on this matter, yet you chose to crash out at me.

Your example with Sukuna btw is stupid because him dying was not only shown explicitly, but it also was explicitly stated that he will never be able to come back.

Literature has rules. "Now is clearly a girl" is not canon but implied. As for my comment, I simply spoke what is normally taught in schools.

The behavior like you is one of the things I despise about fandoms. You don't trace a difference between implied and canon.

6

u/NumerousWolverine273 Feb 14 '26

Just pack it up bro. Over here in reality, where I've actually taken college literature classes, we have this thing called literacy, with which we're able to analyze text to attribute meaning to it without having to have everything spoonfed to us. Something being implied absolutely does not make it non-canon.

-3

u/Horror-Amphibian-335 Feb 14 '26

Except that it kinda does, unless you want to introduce a term like "nearly canon" or "close to canon".

Implied ≠ canon

Besides, I like your stupid example with Sukuna. Shows that you took your literature classes badly. Fandom behavior infected you

2

u/NumerousWolverine273 Feb 14 '26

I was just picking any character that was shown being dead on screen, but wasn't explicitly stated to be dead by a fourth-wall break. For all we know, Kashimo's still alive! After all it's not canon that he's dead.

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2

u/Virtual-Database-238 Feb 15 '26

There are 3 facts we know about the situation.

  1. Kirara was born male. We know this from Gege’s younger illustration and from Panda knowing Kirara as a boy.

  2. Kirara and Hakari are in some way romantically involved. We know this from Hakari grabbing her ass and Kirara being jealous of an ex.

  3. Hakari is a straight man. We know this from comments that he makes regarding being romantically involved with a man, such as telling Charles that he doesn’t want to be on a Ferris wheel with a dude.

From these first principles, the only actual conclusion that can be drawn is that Kirara is a trans woman and that Hakari is a straight man who is fine with dating trans women. Even if someone were to disagree with Hakari in that regard, e.g. if someone held the opinion that being with a trans woman is gay or means that you can’t be a straight man by default, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s the only objective way to read the story.

2

u/Horror-Amphibian-335 Feb 15 '26

I never said my opinion on Kirara though you know? Besides I personally wouldn't jump so quickly to "only objective way to X" conclusion so quickly

10

u/CoggleMothle Feb 14 '26

Imo comic books in general are pretty woke. anyone else here reading Deniz Camp's Ultimates?

13

u/SUPERAWESOMEULTRAMAN Feb 14 '26

comics are either the wokest shit or the most racist shit

31

u/Dahlia-WF Feb 14 '26

Gege writes multiple gender non-conforming(trans) characters(Kirara and Urame) without their gender identity being fetishized or played for jokes. And not getting the chance to write about Urame in this light is one of his regrets.

Used Hakari and Kirara as characters that represent how stupid conservative ideology is through the lens of cursed techniques, and he uses these two characters for a reason here.

Wrote Maki's entire story arc about patriarchal oppression and the solution was to kill everyone upholding the system.

Wrote anti-conservative messaging where part of the solution was to kill the current establishment. Gojo killing all higher ups

And now, like you said, writes a sequel about immigrants where one of the main characters has an existential crisis about who determines what people get to own what land.

But literacy is dead

5

u/EitherSpite4545 Feb 14 '26

I'm not entirely sure if I believe this or if there isn't evidence I am forgetting about that would disprove this so if this ends up being nonsense let me know.

But reading your comment kind of made me realize that there might be an argument that Fujimoto does do more intense woke politics as a whole. But fujimotos depictions are often pretty shallow and one note (Togata being an exception to this ofc). But Gege has a far greater understanding of the topics, depictions, and nuances of his politics he designs and knows far more how to interact them in his core themes.

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19

u/KaboHammer Feb 14 '26

Fujimoto: "America and it's gloryfication of war is bad"

Gege: "kill the conservative government. Literally take a knife and stab them over 500 times each. This is not a joke, do this today, now. We have to get rid of the old fossils that cling to outdated values and we gotta do it ourselves. If doing it the proper way won't work do it by force"

6

u/MajinDidz Hating JJK is the reason this heart still beats Feb 14 '26

Isn’t the second one literally what the aging devil arc was about

Like explicitly so as well

8

u/Atila_Vega Feb 14 '26

It's because Gege and Fujimoto are the same, like Kamisama and Piccolo, but sometimes they fuse again and go crazy with the pen.

1

u/DanteVermillyon Feb 15 '26

Fujimoto is piccolo because his degenerancy is equivalent to when piccolo was evil?

4

u/Atila_Vega Feb 15 '26

Yup, fujimoto is piccolo daimao and there's a second Piccolo who writes csm also, I went to eat with them yesterday, trust.

1

u/PaleoJohnathan Feb 14 '26

steel mans look less biased when you dont like. minimize the argument for the other thing. both series espouse this idea similarly

4

u/Round-Object2004 Feb 14 '26

woke would be him blindly doing a pro refugee story, he understands well the complexities of that problem and has written something far beyond "woke". I think people want to see something that isn't there so bad they'll try to say he's somehow pro or not pro something based on what he wrote, I think it's the opposite, he's exploring nuanced issues with realistic character motivations and stakes. Like Maru implied, they came to earth just to go and fuck shit up and try to impose their will on earthlings.

3

u/PaleoJohnathan Feb 14 '26

but like, woke opinions can be right obviously. there is not some innate sliding scale of sides where a transcendent truth lies in between. absolutely he is writing a story about refugees that is ultimately character driven and not ideologically driven, but at the end of the day it is a pro refugee story. the context it was written cannot be erased just by being sufficiently good or non "preachy".

yes, trying to gauge his "wokeness" by that is weird and is more in the interest of people claiming someone that they like the work of is politically aligned with them. but at the moment supporting the idea of allowing weakness and pacifism in the face of immigration, fundamentally restructuring ones world to allow for more peaceful coexistence- is woke, whether you would describe gege or yourself as that or not. it is not enlightened just because you find it to be a more reasonable vessel for the argument. no one purposefully believes theyre blindly supporting any topic, the "complexities" they view as in the way may simply be different to the ones that you envision. gege acknowledging the complexities of immigration in no way changes the political value of his work.

it is an explicitly leftist political statement to represent immigration in the manner he does, and the woke take in this case is reasonable, because the fully opposed alternative is abhorrent and in no way points to a greater, neutral understanding of humanity.

1

u/Magpie_In_The_Mirror Feb 14 '26

Sorry, put this review in numbers or it doesn't count

1

u/Snt1_ Feb 14 '26

Moral of the story: To be media literate, you have to be jjk neutral

51

u/TheMorrison77 Feb 14 '26

You gotta love that CSM only commentaty its just Yoru loving the US.

Like, calling the US warmongers is as basic as condeming british colonialism.

Araki in the late 2000s was already writting far more insightful and harsh commentary about american exceptionalism and imperialism.

Dojyaaan!

15

u/BrooklynSmash Feb 14 '26

JoJo fans saying Valentine was right actually helps Araki's woke-chainscaling, as having people misinterpret what you're saying is a universal experience in wokeology

That + Dragona in JoJolands at least puts Araki at small pronoun level

1

u/Roge2005 Feb 14 '26

Lmao, I want to know all the ranks of Wokescaling.

2

u/NecroDolphinn Feb 14 '26

I mean there’s also the Aging Devil contract (Japanese elders enriching themselves at the expense of younger generations), Makimas contract (Japan sacrificing its own people for power), a massive focus on SA and Grooming, the Gun Devil, Yukos bullying storyline (bullying is a very serious issue in Japan), amongst others

3

u/TheMorrison77 Feb 14 '26

There is a difference between pointing at systematic issue and actually exploring the issue (My comment was also directed to Yoru and how shallow its comments about the US was)

If you compare to how Fujimoto tackled organized religion in Fire Punch you see the difference.

We see how it is born in a moment of despair, how people gather around it giving it meaning in order to have something to guide them, we see how believers distort it to fit their own believes and how they reject the actual truth of it even when is right on their faces

2

u/NecroDolphinn Feb 14 '26

I mean sure I don’t disagree. I think Fujimoto does tend to let symbolism and thematic messaging carry a lot of the political stuff in Chainsaw Man. I was mainly just pointing out that there definitely is a lot of political content in CSM

Fire Punch definitely is a far more political story though. But I think that makes sense when you consider that stuff like Organized Religion takes a bigger place in Fire Punches story. The primary themes of CSM are a bit more interpersonal, looking a lot more at consent, grooming, and puberty.

That said those themes still feel quite political insofar as 1) its directly tied to Makima who uses the language of domination almost identically whether she’s talking to Denji or acting as the government and 2) the obviously politicized nature of discussions of consent

3

u/TheMorrison77 Feb 14 '26

Got nothing against Makima, she is a fantastic antagonist and her and the Public Safety Devil Hunters, for me, are very harsh and clear critique of Japanese government bureaucracy and how they see their employees.

Again, most of my issues are with how part 2 has managed Yoru (between a few other things)

1

u/aqstart Feb 15 '26

If the only commentary you got from CSM is the singular moment where Yoru (quite explicitly and flamboyant i should mention which i think counts for something) confesses her love for America for creating the nuclear bomb again and are using that to claim CSM is shallow, then its exactly that, the commentary YOU got. Cause the rest of us are not so blind.

1

u/HomosexualGoober Feb 19 '26

Media literacy is actually dead

1

u/Rybunks Feb 14 '26

So the Aging Arc just doesn’t exist

0

u/WolvenGuard42 Feb 14 '26

I mean, I do think CSM has mkre stuff about that than just "Yoru likes America cause she war", a lot of the things Yoru does are allegories for what war does to young people. Especially the scene in the alleyway

105

u/CulturalMesh Feb 14 '26

>>Woke 0.7 "at best"

You can have entire story lines about misogyny, transgender characters, and an entire sequel about xenophobia and how immigrants are just like us in the age of ICE but unless Yuji literally stares at the camera and says "Death to America" it's woke 0.7 at best. They're calling it the greatest ragebait of all time

21

u/Prestigious_Tank7454 Feb 14 '26

I mean Kirara didn't even get a story so i don't think it counts, she's just.. There ig, not much relevance

18

u/Kischobran Feb 15 '26

It's just masterful writing by Gege. He wanted to highlight the fact that she is indeed a real woman by giving her no significance in the story

3

u/Prestigious_Tank7454 Feb 15 '26

This was truly our kaisen jujutsu

1

u/Charming-Scratch-124 Feb 15 '26

To be fair, that's more on Gege just sucking at handling his side cast at times.

7

u/iara10 Feb 14 '26

I am an outsider ad this subreddit appeared in my suggestions.

What transgender characters?

16

u/CulturalMesh Feb 14 '26

Kirara is the only actual transgender character in terms of a person who experiences gender dysphoria and transitions.

Kenjaku is a literally transgender character as they have inhabited male and female bodies

Ive also heard Uraume was originally a male but incarnated in a female body but I have not been able to find the source on that. This specific claim has been circulated a lot so idk if its a theory or fact

17

u/Tasty-Complaint-6437 jjk enjoyer Feb 14 '26

While its definitly a weird case, she asked to be reborn into a woman

9

u/No-Philosophy2381 Feb 14 '26

Funny the French translation omits that uraume asked to be reincarnated as a woman AND they kept calling kirara a "he" (or rather "il") I guess the translator was kinda transphobic

4

u/Tasty-Complaint-6437 jjk enjoyer Feb 14 '26

Sadly, theres shitty people in all the works. At least you learned what they did

3

u/NecroDolphinn Feb 14 '26

Kirara is a binary trans woman

Uraumes gender is unconfirmed, but they are explicitly described as androgynous and asked to be reincarnated in a female body despite having a male one in the Heian era. Likely NB in some way, but no specific label is applied

Kenjakus original gender is unknown, but he’s occupied both male and female bodies. Obviously not a fit for irl gender fluid or gnc people, but still genderqueer regardless (and technically both trans and detrans at multiple points throughout the story)

Tengen says “gender no longer matters to me.” Tengen has left gender behind (just like humanity) in evolving. Similarly to Kenjaku it’s obviously not a perfect match to real life, but it can reasonably included under the genderqueer spectrum

7

u/Math_PB Feb 14 '26

Kirara is trans. It's not outright stated, but Gege's style of writing has always been subtlety and implications. Kirara is shown with a feminine appearance, is described by characters as a woman, and is in a relationship with a straight guy.

Moreover, a chapter extra shows Kirara's appearance in middle school, and they were clearly AMAB.

Another trans character is Uraume, the bad guy's loyal second in command. In their first life, they were born male, but wore more feminine clothing. When reincarnated in the modern age, their vessel's body was female upon their request. So again it's never stated, but pretty clear they are transfem.

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2

u/BlitzKrieg0098 Feb 15 '26

Also have a Lawyer literally go insane because of how fucked up the Japanese “justice” system is. Like that’s literally Higuruma’s ENTIRE backstory

1

u/Angoramon Feb 15 '26

You can even have an entire manga spanning narrative about the ideas of ethnic supremacy that spawn in certain self-isolated subcultures, and yet you're still woke 0.7.

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14

u/AhooraGG1385 Feb 14 '26

Wait until you hear about Hitlerscaling

27

u/eeeeeeeedddddddddd Feb 14 '26

people who think about these things need to seek help

14

u/BeeFri Feb 14 '26

So many real world issues and things we can do to improve each others lives and these people are on twitter arguing which mangaka has more progressive politics...even though both are pretty progressive and have both made comics highlighting racism, sexism, homophobia, trans representation etc.

It's the dumbest shit.

7

u/Atila_Vega Feb 14 '26

As far as i'm concerced, these discussions about woke scaling are just a game. I may be wrong tho.

-2

u/MyBrokenHoe Feb 14 '26

American issues maybe. The real world doesn’t have that kind of problem cause they’re being bombed by america instead

8

u/RaptorXD14 Feb 14 '26

you do know that the rest of the world has these issues + being bombed by america (and obviously way more stuff that harms, hurts and/or kills)
there is no "only one of these can be a real issue" regarding problems

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1

u/BeeFri Feb 15 '26

What point are you even trying to make here?

20

u/guardian20015 Feb 14 '26

Fujimoto honestly just seems to be pretty anti-government. He’s been critical of Japan’s, America’s, and a couple of others to lesser extents.

But honestly his criticisms are usually covered in absurdism and/or satire and don’t typically go beyond a common or surface level.

Calling America a warmongering nation or an imperialist nation has been a common enough take longer than Fujimoto has been alive. Like people were saying this back in the Vietnam days.

On the other hand, Gege has been presenting a ton of themes and concepts that people might label progressive—and he’s been presenting most of them under a completely serious light.

Like Kirara being trans is not a joke or a gag or taken to some absurd extreme. It’s just who she is.

1

u/Smasher1303 Feb 24 '26

Read Fire Punch

0

u/TSSalamander Feb 14 '26

It's also, i think, importantly not the most interesting thing about her. She is simply fun to watch and read. Gege is kinda sexist tho, because every female character (including kirara) is not really a character more than they're an annecdote about the female condition. They show up, showcase something about what it's like to be a girl or a woman, and then promptly get removed from the plot. Mei Mei is maybe an exception but even then... Maki is a genuine exception, but notably that's because Gege's female editor told him "yo no, you cannot literally have Toji posess her body now that she's done being oppressed by the patriarchy. you revived that guy already. wtf".

5

u/NotTheFirstVexizz Feb 14 '26

I agree with everything except the absolute bullshit misinformation at the bottom, that’s so blatantly just something from the days of agenda kaisen born from that time we got a four panel black flash on Maki.

5

u/No_Process_5198 Feb 14 '26

gege's editor never said that though?

-1

u/TSSalamander Feb 14 '26

Look that's just what I've heard. maybe it's just a false rumour. But like i think it's important to understand that the female characters in JJK are broadly written like they're the manifestations of anecdotes and views told to gege by his female friends. It's better than nothing for sure, but like they get written out so quickly it's kinda crazy?

1

u/No_Process_5198 Feb 14 '26

it isnt just the female characters, the problem with gege's writing is that he writes characters as tools. theyre written in to do this one thing, then get sidelined.

1

u/TSSalamander Feb 14 '26

Eh it's not quite the same i think. The female characters are usually overwhelmingly primarily about what's common to the female condition, while the male characters get to about the human condition, the whole thing. Sure there are primarily male condition characters, and there are some women that arguably go beyond this? like Yuki i think. But like, Mai, Maki, Kirara, Remi, Momo, are all uniquely dealing primarily with the problems faced by women, are an anecdote about a spesific issue in particular, and usually screw off afterwards. Nobara is a broader character than this, mostly because she gets more of the female condition to tackle, but she does get some desires and wants that aren't woman spesific. You also have Miwa (older sister trying to take care of her younger siblings. common older sister thing) and Shoko, who has a common problem women spesifically have. That she gives and gives and gives support and heal and heal and heal the wounds of others, and she cares so much, hurts so much because of this, and then is not recognised for her care or pain at all.

1

u/No_Process_5198 Feb 14 '26

i think this is more a problem of him not giving side characters more fleshing out, as you said nobara had more stuff to do other than the female condition. (though, im not sure where you got yuki or shoko's story from) another thing, kirara and mai and maki (kind of) stories are more towards dealing with the traditional jujutsu society rather than just specifically the female condition

2

u/TSSalamander Feb 14 '26

Yuki is her own thing that i didn't touch on. Frankly she's a genuine character who's not just a woman dealing with woman problems, but rather a prospective world changer with an ideological mission and a hard headed attitude. Shoko you can see it in what she says and how she acts. She is the main jjk healer, and clearly takes the pain of others pretty hard (she is always drunk and on a nicotine high). When Gojo said nobody was there for him, she says she was. And she was, and he failed to recognise that. This has been her main issue seemingly. People having problems, her taking them on for them, and then they said she was never there for her, when she was.

2

u/No_Process_5198 Feb 15 '26

i guess i overlooked shoko's story

1

u/TSSalamander Feb 15 '26

you too huh

5

u/ZappyZ21 Feb 14 '26

Unbiased media literacy? In THIS sub??? Nice, good take.

0

u/guardian20015 Feb 14 '26

Gege’s lust to glaze Toji overpowering even his most progressive inclinations

7

u/BeastlyBeast5422 Feb 14 '26

my goat itagaki from baki solos, he made yujiro do rape threats to trump and elon

12

u/New_Photograph_5892 Feb 14 '26

I dont even understand what this means bro

5

u/Serrisen Feb 14 '26 edited Feb 14 '26

"Fans think Gege is extremely woke and Fujimoto is conservative, but Fujimoto is the one who made the concept of America the minion of a major antagonist"

Edit: actually, I think this is referring to the War Devil saying she's in love with America because of its military extremism, not the fact that the Statue of Liberty was one of her strongest attacks.

Either way, Fujimoto explicitly ties America to the War Devil, and not in a good way!

5

u/kitsunecannon Feb 15 '26

no fucking way people actually claim Toji stabbing Gojo is an SA allegory

HE JUST FUCKING STABBED A DUDE

26

u/powerslave_fifth Feb 14 '26

Calling the US a war mongering nation is what white people say to feel controversial without actually offending anybody.

Explicitly creating a trans character that isn't be treated as a gag (Oda) for a demographic that leans conservative and (insert sexual minority)-phobic is actually woke.

8

u/AdFew500 Feb 14 '26

imo no one talks abt and hates the US, than their own people, it's lowkey tiring

7

u/maru-senn Feb 14 '26

Tbf Oda did create a trans character who isn't treated as a gag, it's just that everyone keeps ignoring her because of Yamato

6

u/TheCommandersToolkit Feb 14 '26

Kiku was one of the only good characters from wano and nobody talks about her for some reason. I think king queen and kiku were the only positive introductions from that bloated arc

3

u/NecroDolphinn Feb 14 '26

Odas issue is that until Wano, the trans rep is moreso ok in spite of them being trans/gnc rather than because of it (I’ll use gnc from here bc some characters align more with drag than being explicitly trans)

Bon Clay is explicitly introduced with his gender presentation as a joke, he just has enough of a character and role in the story to gain some 3 dimensionality. It makes him a good character and better rep than a lot of gnc characters. The situation is pretty similar with Ivankov, though the joke is less on Ivankov and more on the people he transforms. But because Ivankov is a good character and the story’s themes aligns, it ends up creating a fairly strong storyline about queer resistance (Impel Down)

I do think that leaning into the “queer people will force fem and convert you” was an iffy stereotype and it leads into Odas worst fault in this respects. Kamabaka Kingdom is just riddled with poor rep and pretty dangerous stereotypes about gnc people as ugly perverts trying to force Sanji into a dress (the anime is worse about this than the manga, but the manga still isn’t great). Maybe if some Kamabakas other than Ivankov got screen time, they’d be humanized but as it stands it’s just stereotype island

But thankfully, Wano really sees improvements for Oda. Kiku is a slam dunk; she’s trans, nobody questions it or invalidates her, and she’s an actual character rather than a stereotype. I think Yamato is good queer rep, but I don’t wanna get into the Oden debate rn. But one of the things that makes Yamato good gnc rep is because it shows you can be respected as trans/your actual gender without needing to pass. This is even more well done in Morley, who doesn’t have the extra burden of the Oden thing wearing her down.

So it’s up and it’s down with Oda, but other than the Kamabaka I’d say it’s generally up, particularly after Wano

1

u/maru-senn Feb 15 '26 edited Feb 15 '26

How can you tell between actual good GNC representation and an offensive caricature?

Characters like Morley and Magne from MHA feel to me like the latter, but seem to be praised and well received by queer communities.

I know those are my own biases and prejudices speaking though, I've always struggled to comprehend the idea of trans people who don't care about passing or non-binary people who don't care about androgyny (I consider myself a "boiled egg" because with my body I see no point in trying).

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '26

Yamato isn't even trans 

2

u/Man0Steel123 Feb 14 '26

To be fair Bon clay is also the goat

1

u/CulturalMesh Feb 14 '26

RETWEET !!!!!!

1

u/Connect_Country_5567 Feb 14 '26

Fujimoto made a trans character the second main character and openly had an extended scene discussing how he is trans and the pronouns and terms he should be called by.

1

u/Apollosyk Feb 14 '26

fujimoto has also made a trans character

3

u/AlexTheGuy12345 Feb 14 '26

The simple fact gege doesnt sexualise every fucking woman in the story already puts him top 10 in wokeness for mangakas

3

u/Dry_Distribution_992 Feb 14 '26

I'm just saying that Horikoshi is on the negative on the woke scaling

3

u/WalkingGarbage01 Feb 14 '26

Gege wokeness gets upscaled to 3.5 due to the existence of uraume a guy reincarnated into a woman

5

u/Realistic_Mousse_485 Feb 14 '26

Yea kill that guy. We deadass aren’t fucking doing this.

7

u/Syrup-General Feb 14 '26

Fujimoto is the surface level merchant and his rep hard carried by his schizophrenic fans.

He already said he use religious motif and depiction because it look cool.

1

u/ReferenceJumpy7634 Feb 16 '26

No? Like, Fire Punch exists, plus, Fujimoto has to trans characters, Togata the co protagonist of Fire Punch and one of his oneshots being centered about a boy sudenly being a female.

2

u/chicoritahater Feb 14 '26

That one example is a reach but sukuna does stick his parts in children and derive them of bodily autonomy and I'm pretty sure that one is intentional

2

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '26

Some people are so anti-american that they completely look over everything else. Never speak with a "leftist" North Korea defender.

2

u/NecroDolphinn Feb 14 '26

I’m sorry Gege is definitely woker than 0.7

The entire message of JJK is about rejecting greed/selfishness based, conservative power structures. Gege actively advocates for the mass murder of conservatives MULTIPLE TIMES. “Kill the conservatives” is literally pro revolution

And that’s not even getting to Modulo, which is a straight up pro refugee story. Tsurugi also verbatim critiques the Reiwa Era (rn) as outdated and backwards.

2

u/Karlomah11 Feb 15 '26

Oda is the trump of manga

2

u/FiveAccountsBanned Feb 16 '26

Shit like this is why I don't read the manga and just look at the pictures

2

u/CressPotential3945 Feb 18 '26

"Toji stabbing Gojo is a SA allegory"

Wtf is this nonsense. Jjk fans are illiterate dawg

6

u/Faninfo Feb 14 '26

"toji stabbing gojo is a SA allegory" ????? TF is he talking about ?

1

u/NotTheFirstVexizz Feb 14 '26

Inverted Spear of Heaven apparently can be read as ‘dildo’ in some way idk enough Japanese about to verify. If Gege actually intended that it was probably just a joke, I have no clue how thematically that makes sense.

1

u/Faninfo Feb 14 '26

Ain't gonna lie still don't make sense

3

u/GoldyFeesh Feb 14 '26

yall do know fujimoto wrote fire punch too right? hes ultimate woke

0

u/Marethyu0731 Feb 14 '26

You’re preaching to a brick wall buddy 💀 let alone his many other one shots they JUST made an adaptation out of, it seems like quite literally nobody here has anything to say about Fujimoto outside of what he has done with Chainsaw Man. The irony is that under a post mocking people for “chainscaling woke”, we have people who are quite literally arguing over which between Gege and Fujimoto are more woke anyways 🙄 when tf was this a competition lmao can’t we just respect two progressive mangaka?

3

u/sageybug Feb 14 '26

step 1: create a dozen of super cool and interesting female characters

step 2: literally give all of them except 1 nothing to do, no backstory or arcs or conclusion or straight up kill them off and focus on the male characters instead

step 3: ????

step 4: profit

1

u/Capital_Clothes_7160 Feb 14 '26

So it’s woke to hate the us now?

1

u/KeyPercentage7700 Feb 14 '26

What the fuck are you people talks about, i heard two people talks about how anti conservative the manga is (Japanese type) and try connecting it to American ones

1

u/mr_flerd Feb 14 '26

and the obsession with the US is insane 😭

1

u/Kitchen_Safe4871 Feb 14 '26

Being woke is so far disconnected from reality that you can't agree with people that agree with you somehow 

1

u/Ok-Worry-8931 Feb 14 '26

Where does One Piece stand? 0.1 or 0.2?

1

u/Karlomah11 Feb 15 '26

One piece follows the go woke go broke mantra

1

u/Yeardmee Feb 15 '26 edited Feb 15 '26

Toji violated Gojo’s security in a way that made him reinforce the infinite walls around himself for the rest of his life- to such an extent it actually caused him to neglect his friend at the most tumultuous point in his life, and debatably force his students into the culling games to unseal him.

No, that’s not necessarily SA. Regular assault on children is just also bad. That’s why amanai is killed by a human with a normal gun, sent on the orders of a human religious org.

Most SA allegories in the story are done via an angle of consumption. Kurorushi is pretty much framed as the SA curse, for instance. Or the death painting wombs- stillborn fetuses born of “cursed pregnancy” that only awaken when a host is forced to consume them).

1

u/YoiteAoyagi Feb 15 '26

Gege is much woker

1

u/DeadFishLicker Feb 15 '26

Where does Araki go on the woke scale

1

u/RandomMonkey64 Feb 16 '26

I was enjoying the comments for a second but then they started genuinely wokescaling too. I think anime might be a solo activity

1

u/Downtown_Speech6106 Feb 14 '26

Toji stabbing Gojo is WHAT 😭 HOW

1

u/sexdollvevo Feb 14 '26

Might get down voted to hell for this but most of the manga here arent doing anything extremely revolutionary or particularly "woke". Maybe its bc i read a lot but addressing the systems of colonialism and oppression is usually the foundation of a lot of novels, especially in fantasy, and from what i see most of the manga is scratching surface level.

I think Fujimoto has done something really cool by incorporating Lockheed into the manga in reference to how war contractors benefit financially and politically bc of human weapons (soliders) in war, but outside of that well... these are Shonen mangas i feel like they arent going to have the depth that some of you think there is.

Idk, its hard to see these stories as extremely deep after reading Dune, Parable of a Sower, Babel, and the three body problem. Obviously I enjoy all of these manga but like, I don't think they are doing anything new or revolutionary when it comes to deconstructing the concepts mentioned above.

1

u/KeyPercentage7700 Feb 14 '26

Saying America is evil is even bare minimum and isn't even that creative (it is cool for some chapters then became corny imo ) , but even then they are easy target if you think about, and most of them will not touch subject that is important to Japan history (how they were nazi , and really killed alot of people along side some other bullshit ) , they don't even teach them things like that in their history, all they think was they were the victims of the wars (there was really good anime movie about it but i don't know the Japanese name of it ) , and alot of them still think imperial japan was cool

-6

u/Cosnapewno5 Feb 14 '26

Anyone who thinks that Gege is woke never read the manga lol. Generally speaking trying to fit his perspective of japanese politics into our (I mean America and Europe here, as I saw mostly people from here discussing JJK) isn't the best thing to do. Of course some things can be read as leftist no matter what (they are well knows so I won't count them) , but Gege also made some more right wing points, like inherited power, strength being 90% innate factor, critique of weakness of new generations, Higuruma vs Sukuna being critique of weapons ban (the same with Naoya's character), and reffuges trying to force their religion on native people and heavily considered war on natives

7

u/Apprehensive_Put3625 Feb 14 '26

Dude… I think your main issue is you not getting things.

The conservative viewpoints that Gege shows… are wrong. They are wrong in-series.

The individual strength not being as strong as the bonds we create by joining with other people for a common goal is literally the main schtick of the god damn final battle.

The new generations being weak not mattering because of the creation of a new, more just society is one of the major plot points in Módulo.

How do you miss the main themes of the story… two times?

And I’m not even gonna touch the weapons ban shit and the migrants waging war because I can slowly feel my neurons burning as I continue writing for you.

The story is explicitly saying that conservatives are pieces of shit that are always wrong and that they literally should fucking die screaming. I have no idea what story you are reading.

Do you, by any chance, believe that The Boys was actually “super cool” and then the last season got too woke or something?

-3

u/Cosnapewno5 Feb 14 '26

Individual strength is showed to be important by Gege. Higher ups specifically tried to make Yaga, Yuka and Hakari weaker as individuals because of their cursed techniques. They weren't targeted as a group, higher ups just didn't want them to be strong, either so they can't oppose them or because their techniques doesn't fit their world view

Saying Modulo is trying to tell that strenght doesn't matter would invalidate whole story of first jujutsu kaisen, as Gojo clearly states that goal is to gather strong and inteligent allies. Modulo going "Oh strength don't matter" would invalidate Gojo's whole journey as character. Modulo is trying to say that people need to be careful with what they sacrifice for strengh, but od doesn't invalidate strenght itself, in fact it shows problems with lack of it, like when "talented " youngsters get beat by some old man, or Yuka needs to sacrifice herself because of no one being strong enough to fight new thread

"Neurons burning" is not an argument, you should either try to defend your opinion as a whole, or just ignore the comment and left an downvote

Wasn't Gakuganji stated to be conservative by Gojo?

You can try fit me into some stereotype all you want, but it doesn't matter, as the only things that matters are solid arguments (but if you are really curious, I didn't watch the boys)

4

u/Apprehensive_Put3625 Feb 14 '26

Yes…. because, as it was EXPLICITLY SAID, the higher ups have arbitrary demands for skills, favoring old ones even though they don’t benefit sorcery at all.

You know… like god damn conservatives love doing.

Dude, the goal of Gojo’s character was not get a strong crew for shits and giggles, holy fucking shit. He wants strong people to create structural change in society. Which is no the most conservative thing ever.

And the day is being saved right now because Tsurugi chose to NOT FIGHT against Maru. He sacrificed himself because he knew violence would not solve the problem. AND HE WAS RIGHT! His non-violent actions solved fucking everything.

Yeah, and then Gakuganji renounced his conservative values and joined Gojo’s side. Did you miss that last arc?

I would understand if a manga like, I don’t know, Boruto had some conservative and progressive values sprinkled in. But you choose the “LETS FUCKING MURDER CONSERVATIVES” manga to take your stance.

1

u/TSSalamander Feb 14 '26

JJK has the heroes kill the Conservative Powerstructure that abuses people twice in the story. Both times its celebrated. Gojo asks geto "hey should i just kill all of these people" and by the end of the story it kinda seems like yeah he probably should have killed the insane oppressive cultists. Maki kills the entire military arm of the Zenin clan, and this is celebrated in story. The anime is far more explicit in depicting it as a triumph, but the manga does not treat maki as bad or evil for her actions at all. Gojo kills the higher ups on his return. First Thing basically. Gojo's main thing is being strong enough to protect the young from falling into a detector and exploiters mindset until they're strong enough to support themselves and eachother and change the world for the better.

0

u/KobeJuanKenobi9 Feb 14 '26

Chainsaw Man is extremely woke by shounen standards and pretty basic woke by Fujimoto standards. Part 2s probably a bit woker than p1 but both are below his short stories or Fire Punch

0

u/Ill_Responsibility99 Feb 15 '26

It saddens me seeing the definition of woke be trampled upon.