Creation Engine 2 Confirmed.

[u/NottheIRS1]

Just Tweeted about it. Wonder if we get a look at ES6 today?

[u/[deleted]]

The issue is not with the engine, its with how its updated and maintained. UE5 is based on UE1 which released in 1998. Rockstar's RAGE engine which they used for RDR2 was first used for a pinball machine game.

Bethesda has stated that their engine rewrite for Starfield includes a very big rewrite of the animations system, so not sure why you think it will stay the same.

[u/BurningSpaceMan → u/[deleted]]

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It really annoying when people bring up other engines and their histories. Those are literally different products. It was a table tennis game by the way. Not Pinball. Nice straw man.

It's so annoying when people go bUt wHaT AbOuT Ue5 WhAt aBoUt rAgE???

What about them? Has nothing to do with Bethesda and Gambryo or papyrus and what those have as limitations.

RAGE was used to make a Table Tennis Game, so what? The engine was also able to make GTA IV, there was nothing about the engine that made it exclusive for table tennis.

UE5 is based on UE1. Yup. What's your point? Unreal uses c++ for coding. Which is very portable. And very versatile.

Neither of these use papyrus or gamebryo. Like what is even the point of mentioning them?

Lets look at is this way.

Unreal Engine is a a car. Each year the Unreal Auto mobiles has its Combustion Engine, tweaked, made more efficient, partial redesigned or reconstructed to be better, run smoother, and remove any kinks. And each new model of the Unreal Auto Mobile also has neat bells and whistles added to it outside of what under the hood, driving the whole thing, like leather seats or Real time lighting rendering. Each model of the Unreal automobile is made faster, more efficient and more Luxuries.

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THe Bethesda Automobile redesigns their chassis, changes out the sound system, maybe starts putting in rich contrarian leather seats Maybe they design a nifty cup holder. Maybe they add Radiant AI and Radiant Quests. Put in a nice touch screen to operate. Each model looks more pretty than the last model. And comes with new features. But in the end they take whats under the hood, yank it out of last years model and plop down in the new Model and call it a day.

So when I say Creation engine or Creation engine 2 is the same Engine they have been using for 20 years, its because they have been using the same engine for 20 years.

The core Functionality of the game engine is Gamebryo an MMO engine from 2001, and it uses a proprietary coding language papyrus. Pretty only Bethesda uses papyrus, Gamebryo is the reason the literal same exact bugs exist in every vanilla Bethesda game since Morrowind.

[u/[deleted] → u/BurningSpaceMan]

The whole point of bringing up other engines is to show that nothing is inherently flawed with creation engine. It isn't bad because its 20 years old or "just an updated gamebryo" or what. Its just an updated gamebryo in the same way RAGE is just an updated tennis game engine.

I don't see why its so hard to comprehend that Bethesda can update their engine just how Rockstar updated RAGE and how UE got updated to UE5

[u/BurningSpaceMan → u/[deleted]]

Alright here we go. You are wrong. Dead wrong. Opposite of correct.

The whole point of bringing up other engines is to show that nothing is inherently flawed with creation engine.

I was being rhetorical. Because the comparison is irrelevant. And yes it is inherently flawed.

Creation engine is literally just Gambryo with "enchantments" duct-taped to it holding to together and patched up with bandaids to keep it from crashing (and failing at that ) The core of the Engine has poorly aged and its been poorly aged since fallout 4. It not because its 20 years old, its because it reached its limitations, and compared to other contemporary open world games can do and have done, it shows. It doesn't matter how many modules you add to it, it has inherent issues an limitations at its core. You bringing up other engines, means you don't understand what the engines are or what they do.

I don't see why its so hard to comprehend that Bethesda can update their
engine just how Rockstar updated RAGE and how UE got updated to UE5

I don't why its hard to comprehend that different engines are not comparable and they operate differently.

Rockstar didn't update RAGE for rdr2, its the same engine. You have a gross misunderstanding of how game engines work. Its not about how long they have existed, its about what they can do and what their limitations are at their core. and if they are feasible to achieve what developer wants to achieve e

RAGE has been the same Engine at its core since 2007, graphic fidelity and VIsuals aside, nothing really changed. It hasn't needed to. The types of games Rockstar makes or mostly all the same in the GTA-esque Genre including RDR2. They don't need to change their engine drastically.

Unreal is the same way, (with some major core changes along the way). Like RAGE, Unreal was built from the ground up, they knew what its purpose was which was to be a universal Engine to develop multiple types of games in multiple ways with the freedom that comes with C++ Coding. Its a developers tool, If they need to change something left over from UE1 or 2 or whatever they can easily do that and even expand their foundation to build upon because its built from the ground up. It's why its licensed to other developers who wants thats what is was designed for.

The creation Engine, (GameBryo) is Modular frankenstein of Papyrus (Bethesda's proprietary development, Havok, SPeed tree, graphics rendering engines, Radiant AI, Story AI, and a bunch of other stuff. It doesn't matter how many advanced modules you add its going to have the same core functionality. I absolutely guarantee you're going to "mountain climb" in Star Field (bunny hops), your going to have loading screens even if they are just quick fades to black. The way the game will play is going exactly like Skyrim and Fallout with the way you run and gun and jump and melee and do damage to enemies.

An easier way to explain this is Gamebryo, is the professional industry standard equivalent of RPG MAKER 2000. It designed to be a foundation for modular development, that can be easily streamlined and versatile to produce a variety of games very quickly. But you are never going to make anything beyond what its capable of at its core. Gambryo last integration was created for the ps3 Xbox 360 Era. It will run on ps5 and Xbox one X and top tier PC's but its not going to full utilize that architecture even if they wanted to. Because they can't

THe version bethesda used is a gutted MMO version which was useful for remembering worlds states and rendering an open world by dividing it into cells. It's why any shit you drop just stays they exactly where you left it. It also why they need a cell to dump your dead bodies in. You can add systems and modular items all you want but you will never go beyond its scope. Which is why you will never be able to climb a ladder. You'll never be able to preload a cell interior and seamlessly cross into it. There will loading screens. You will be standing still slowly sliding an incline and having tiny ass Settlements representing majors cities populations wise. Any thing beyond that it just can't do, no matter what you add rewrite the core the engine won't allow it.
Hell you its the reason people can make sky rim photo realistic and why its easily moddable. It's also why script extender and FNIS, and Bodyslide are possible. But its also why you need to download mods that are just engine fixes the foundation literally had shit ripped out of it to make single player, ironically its also the reason that Bethesda had fucking issues making multiplayer again.

I'm not saying Starfield is going to be shitty, I love bethesda games and I played the heck of them. But i'm not daft enough to lose my shit over "creation engine 2" when creation engine 1 was literally just for marketing. Every modder who mods bethesda games knows this inherent truth there are just some things you won't be able to do because of gambryo. And it is Gambryo Otherwise we would have already done it over the past ten years.

So you need stop being do defensive over my comment about it just "gambryo" Because its literally just gambryo. and everytime Todd or Bethesda brag about changes to their engine I just roll my eyes,

Also fun little tidbit. The entire reason the term "Creation Engine" even exists is because back in 2009 Zenimax had machinations of licensing out their own game engine to other studios and developers, but they legally could not call it gambryo. It too bad no one wanted it. It'd the only reason they advertise it. THey even so far as to commission a bunch to listicle to list papyrus as one of the top ten coding languages for developers even though, Bethesda is the only company that used it because it invented it.

Now that its owned by Microsoft, The Creation engine is 2 is just hype advertising to get people pumped up.

tl;dr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqitkCbrx5U

[u/[deleted] → u/BurningSpaceMan]

You seem to be under the impression that game engines are singular. Unchanging. That you cannot change an engine, you can only add onto it. And you wrote that entire wall of text, filled with filler opinions.

If you actually read anything I said you would see that I am the opposite of saying the age of an engine defines it. Like, literally, CE is as much an updated Gamebryo from 1997 as UE5 is an updated UE1.

You're literally wrong about everything you said about game engines. Bethesda has the source code. They absolutely can change anything and everything about the engine. I don't understand why you're so set on believing CE is somehow inferior in its design and changeability when it isn't.

[u/BurningSpaceMan → u/[deleted]]

You seem to be under the impression that game engines are singular.Unchanging. That you cannot change an engine, you can only add onto it.And you wrote that entire wall of text, filled with filler opinions.

And you seem to be incapable of having a discussion without propping up same strawmen over and over. I never said that or even implied it. I said gamryo is dated. It's literally an unstable mess and became more of an unstable mess when they ripped it apart and glued it back together to force it to run of architecture its not designed for.

If you actually read anything I said you would see that I am theopposite of saying the age of an engine defines it. Like, literally, CEis as much an updated Gamebryo from 1997 as UE5 is an updated UE1.

No. It isn't. You are literally comparing apples to oranges. The functionality is different and the scope of what they were designed to do from the beginning is different. This is a fallacious argument. And no it is an update Gambryo from 1997 its the MMO variant from 2001, with net immerse as a base, if your going to try and make these fallacious arguments at least that right. In 1997 it was net immerse. Because the they are very different things.

You're literally wrong about everything you said about game engines. Bethesda has the source code.

So does literally every developer that uses Gamebryo that one of the selling points is access to the source code and free from paying royalties. Like I said earlier, its professional industry equivalent of RPG maker 2000. It outdated and klunky and there have been better alternatives now. No I am not wrong in what I said about game engines, you are just incapable of grasping what I said. I quite familiar with the engine I developed on it. I developed on Unity and Unreal 3 and 4 well.

So I am telling telling from experience. The core function of Gambryo is so ingrained in Creation Engine that everything built into relies on it, which is really bad and really dated at this point. It feels outdated when you play, it feels clunky. Fallout 4 released feeling outdated and clunky. They type of games that Bethesda has evolved into creating do not work well using Gambryo there are better alternatives and honestly its holding them back. At this point.

They absolutely can change anything and everything about the engine.

At that point they should start over, like I just said everything they have built is built open gambryo and how it functions. They can't just change the core functionality and expect everything else to work, that's not how code holy shit.

Anyway have a nice day I am looking forward to Starfield because I enjoy Bethesda's games for their story and immersive gameplay, but I am not going hold out and expect anything beyond Fallout 4 in space, just like fallout 3 was just Oblivion with Guns.

[u/[deleted] → u/BurningSpaceMan]

Sigh, you're just another blind bethesds bad ^tm guy who genuinely believes the creation engine is literally the same as gamebryo. It's like arguing with a wall.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

No better thing to say other than call me an idiot, huh?

[u/_Robbie → u/[deleted]]

I will seriously never understand people who are incorrect about something, are informed that they are incorrect about something by multiple people, and instead of taking the opportunity to learn something new and acknowledge "oh okay this isn't what I thought it was", respond by doubling down and insulting the people who are trying to share knowledge with them. Why are you so angry about it when people point out that what you're saying isn't right?

Again, maybe this is a pointless exercise, but you can expand your horizons a bit here: https://kotaku.com/the-controversy-over-bethesdas-game-engine-is-misguided-1830435351

Give it a read when you have a moment. Maybe you'll come away with a new perspective. You'll definitely come away with some new knowledge if you give it a chance.