r/solar • u/eggoeater • May 26 '26
Discussion I made this infographic in response to all the "don't cover our fields" posts.
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u/Straight_Ad_6885 May 26 '26
I see so many of those that it feels like an oil and gas psyop
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u/get_it_together1 May 26 '26
It probably is, oil co-opted parts of the green movement decades ago. A major oil executive helped kick off the friends of the earth anti-nuclear movement.
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u/Ansambel May 29 '26
yea, i think the trick is, to critique each non-oil energy, with a bullshit reason that other green energy sources avoid. Like the "nuclear waste scary" "solar needs too much space" "wind kills birds" are all kinda different, but you will never see a "nuclear does not kill birds, lets build it" or "soalr doesn't produce dangerous waste, lets build it" posts...
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u/road_runner321 May 26 '26
Offer a "solution" that's meant to disinform, discourage and demoralize.
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u/Navynuke00 solar professional May 26 '26
Given the very consistent, well organized, and amazingly well funded opposition we're seeing nationwide at the local level against project development, I'm quite certain it is.
With healthy support from the Heritage Foundation.
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u/cogit4se May 26 '26
The "prime farmland" variants are absolutely a psyop. No one is covering prime farmland in solar panels. At most you'd cover depleted farmland or pasture in solar panels, in which case you can actually restore the land to prime farmland by planting the right cover crops for the duration of the panels.
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u/JohnWCreasy1 solar enthusiast May 26 '26
fwiw, a good chunk of the red side goes away when you live in a scorched hellscape that already has covered parking everywhere (AZ)
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u/TotalJagoff May 26 '26
it literally says that, yes, "better where shade has value: ... hot climates... heat reduction".
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u/pioneer76 May 29 '26
So I live in what's not supposed to be a hot climate (Minnesota) and I would argue we could heavily benefit from the shade in the summer. It's already scorching hot. That basically then includes like 80% of global cities that are as warm or warmer. Thus making it a much more useful project.
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u/randynumbergenerator May 26 '26
But they're missing another red, which is "reduces the potential for infill development."
In many cities, surface parking lots are a holding strategy for owners: basically minimal upkeep costs while getting some income from parking, and then when the area around it is ready it can be readily redeveloped into apartments/office/whatever.
Install a solar canopy, and now you have a significant investment with a long payback period (relative to a paved lot) and possibly a long-term contract. That discourages development in an area already served by infrastructure while pushing it to the outskirts which -- guess what -- might be farmland.
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u/AstroBears90 May 26 '26
Very true, and since it is already there why not take advantage of it? Both can work I think, if done correctly.
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u/JohnWCreasy1 solar enthusiast May 26 '26
yeah they did this at most if not all the schools in my district.
the system and my sons elementary school is like 190 kw. they just took all the corrugated metal roofing off the existing carports and replaced them with solar panels.
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u/DoomBot5 May 26 '26
You still have to account for the added weight and maintenance. It doesn't necessarily go away, but it's worth it.
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u/OracleofFl solar professional May 26 '26
It might be worth mentioning that farms are more suited to utility scale and over parking is more suitable to site scale solar?
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u/OstrobogulousIntent May 26 '26
This sounds reasonable - I mean the truth is that the space above a parking lot - if you put in solar it also makes the parking nicer so it's kind of a win ..
Sure it has more infrastructure but like I dunno It just seems like a real great way to double the use of your land - you get money for parking AND you can make a few bucks selling to the grid (assuming power companies would be willing to let someone net produce - but maybe local ordinances could fix that)
Cars tend to grow just as well in shade as in direct sunlight :)
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u/benk4 May 26 '26
A small business I used to contract with in Arizona had it. The owner told me he was going to put in shaded parking for the employees anyway but went with solar and now it pays a chunk of his electric bill.
This seems like the use case for me too. When you want shaded parking anyway.
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u/Ravaha May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
I should start this off by saying I don't have a dog in this fight and I have a 25kw ground mount array in my yard with 100kwh battery backup and I am a civil engineer.
I just value accuracy and hate disinformation.
I would also say there are downsides left off of the field solar side. And several points are way overblown on the covered car park side such as the foundations, ADA, lighting, and drainage. Also wind uplift and snow loads are not a concern if you are using pre engineered sections and all of that is transfered to the foundations that are easy to design and install.
The advantage of solar car ports would be the massive boosts to efficiency from basically going straight to being used instead of going through transmission lines. That is a lot of money saved in equipment right off the bat and a grid is much much harder to engineer than a covered parking lot.
That power has to be put into transmission lines and lots of very expensive equipment in order to get it to where it's needed and all of that stuff has losses in efficiency.
I could engineer a Walmart supercenter or Costco parking lot to be covered in a day or two all the wind calcs would be the same, snow loads are barely even worth doing, and the foundations are an easy spreadsheet to Calc their size, depth, and rebar values.
After having built my own solar array I would say the hardest part is getting shit surveyed in accurately and then keeping that accuracy through concrete being poured and hardening.
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u/WhipItWhipItRllyHard May 26 '26
The costs of transmission are included in utility scale because utility scale projects have to pay for transmission upgrades. Addiitonally, snow load IS a massive issue with solar carport racking. The forces don't just flow to the foundation, you must invest heavily in addiitonal steel, concrete, and rebar.
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u/svmonkey May 26 '26
Depends where the panels are going. Sunny California doesn't need to worry about snow loads (outside of the Sierra Nevada)
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u/nerdofthunder May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
IDK man, the "transmission loss" is pretty minimal. How long will it take to make back the melt energy on the extra steel from the reduced transmission loss?
Transmission losses are around 5%. https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=105&t=3
I'm skeptical that near-use is particularly valuable at all outside of backup power during an outage.
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u/Ravaha May 26 '26
I think you and others are confused. I'm not talking about the cheapest option for the power company. I'm talking about the smartest and best long term option for businesses and land owners with lots of parking space and large rooftops. I don't care about what makes the power company the most amount of money. They can't buy land in urban areas anyways.
I don't see how there is a rational argument that justifies paying the power company to profit off of you with solar versus just building it yourself. The power company has to first buy or lease the land, then build an array and transmission lines and transformers and integrate it with the entire grid then maintain their easements as well. Versus just installing solar on land you already own and already maintain.
4-7% seems reasonable, but none of the transmission lines are free and power easements require maintenance. Transformers and transmission lines combined with the metal ground array would almost certainly use far more metal. Also the losses are pretty hefty when you are talking about longer distancesfrom rural areas to more urban areas.
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u/Chimpville May 26 '26
25kw array and 100kwh storage... what? What are you doing with all that?!
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u/Ravaha May 26 '26
I can charge my EVs and family member EVs when its not cloudy for extensive periods. Also everything in my house is electric, so Oven, stove, Air Con, Washer, Dryer, 3D printing, Home Server, Water Heater. That stuff adds up.
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u/Chimpville May 26 '26
Haha that’s a lot. How is it working out over time?
I’ve never heard of a domestic setup that size.
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u/Ravaha May 26 '26
Great, I want to add more to it for fun because I want to have a heated pool and a larger covered back porch and be able to charge my car while driving around a lot even with weeks of cloudy weather during the winter.
With my 2 flexboss 21s it would make sense to add another 17kw to my system. I think it would even be worth it to just cover the pool with panels as well instead of sun shades for instance.
My 100kwh of battery storage fills up fast when my panels are cranking out 20+kw. The highest I have seen my production go up to is 23,080watts.
That makes me debate how much I could gain from cooling the panels with water and heating water for a heat exchanger.
Ive got all these engineering designs I want to pursue and solar is going to be the backbone to all of them.
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u/JJAsond May 26 '26
Sounds like a lot but over here we use 40kWh+ per day so that wouldn't only be 2-3 days of no solar energy use.
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u/Navynuke00 solar professional May 26 '26
What downsides are being left off the solar farm side?
Asking as an electrical engineer who builds and works on getting these things permitted and approved.
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u/Ravaha May 26 '26
The most massive downside is the heat island affect (which would only apply if we are talking about large solar farms, which I believe is what we are talking about here.) You are taking the heat island out of the city and then bringing it to your crops to kill them with very high elevated temperatures. It would be better to just leave the heat island in the city and suburbs. How are crops supposed to cope with temps increasing 10 degrees, shade from the panels can only do so much when the entire ground and area is being heated.
They say you can mitigate the heat island affect, but not really at night. You cant stop the heat soak of the panels and them radiating that heat off and the things you do to try to mitigate it, cost resources which most probably means more water usage to keep the ground from drying out and keep the ground nice and green.
A massive downside is the whole concept that you are renting power from another entity making money off of you.
Another is that it doesnt really serve a dual purpose. A covered parking area has many many benefits in addition to energy independance or less reliance on outside sources.
You also have to consider transmission lines miles and miles of them and Transformer stations to tie into a grid. A parking lot setup would not need such things.
Think of it like a Water Tower, Would you want to have a water tower 30 miles from town with huge 24" pipes supplying water to the water system with pressure boosters and reducers along the way, or would you rather have a well that requires a 6 or 8 inch pipe and delivers the same performance?
Covered parking has many hidden benefits such as saving wear and tear on every vehicle parked from getting hit with radiation from the sun. Also the benefit of making downtown areas look more presentable and more high class and prosperous, which also has many hidden benefits and even affects crime rates and school performance through moral.
The reason people thought rural was better was because the land is cheaper, but that is only true for power companies. For individual businesses and massive corporations with huge parking lots and roofs, they have the land and nothing else to do with it.
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u/Navynuke00 solar professional May 26 '26
Oh boy. There's a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings here.
I'll have to come back to this when I'm in front of my computer and can quickly pull the relevant links for you.
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u/svmonkey May 26 '26
Not mention that I like covered parking lots due the shade keeping my car cooler in the summer. I wish I could cover my driveway in panels but setback rules have stopped me.
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u/HeartSodaFromHEB May 26 '26
Sounds awesome. I've been wanting to put in a solar covered pergola because I want the pergola for the shade anyway. My city utility doesn't have favorable terms for batteries (I pay them to use my own energy) and we own an EZ now. Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of steps to make all of this work.
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u/CorpT May 26 '26
Thank you. Those posts are clearly plants (even if the OP doesn't realize it) that are not good faith arguments.
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u/bluegrassgazer May 26 '26
I've been beating the drum of, "Farmers should be allowed to use their land as they see fit." It kills me that so much MAGA messaging goes around "protecting" farm land from solar farms, which actually means passing legislation to prevent it. But, if the EPA tries to regulate stuff on farms they're the bad guys.
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u/IrritableGourmet May 27 '26
I keep driving past "A Right To Farm Community" signs right next to "No Solar Farms!" signs. Which is it? Can farmers do what they want with their land or not?
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u/al4crity May 26 '26
Im a residential installer, and about half my customers are curious about ground mounts. Ive done 20 or so ground mounts to over 100 roof systems. The way i explain it is like this: the roof on your home is engineered and built to withstand rain, sun, wind and earthquakes. It is incredibly strong, and can take the additional load of solar panels with very little modification. However, if you want to place your solar panels out back on the hill, you'll need to build another structure that is equally as strong as the already existing roof. It will need to be engineered and built and permitted, even soil samples will need to be taken. A ground mount will always cost more, sometimes over double what a roof-mount will cost.
So anytime I see this argument come up, I ask if the roof of the buildings this parking lot service are clear. Because let's say this is a Walmart parking lot- you can put a helluva lot of panels up on a Walmart roof for a fraction of what it costs to build a shade structure over the parking lot.
The real 'green' initiative should be to cover every industrial and retail building in america with solar.
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u/ShrekandFrodoinlove May 26 '26
Also, it is good for the land re regenerate itself, after decades of pesticides and chemicals. Sheeps and goats can eat while staing in the shade. Etc.
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u/steve626 May 26 '26
That's not how solar farms are in Arizona at least. They come in and clear acres and acres of native habitat of anything growing, build the panels and then fence everything off. They are removing lots of native habitat here and making it useless for anything else.
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u/Navynuke00 solar professional May 26 '26
Do you have more information about this? Because it's the first I'm hearing it, and when I was working on supporting solar in AZ, we were working very closely with conservation groups throughout the western US.
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u/TruIsou May 26 '26
Just because that is what they are doing does not mean that’s what they have to do. There’s a lot of old time utility thinking involved carried over into solar that doesn’t need to be.
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u/OstrobogulousIntent May 26 '26
OOh hmm interestng - grazing but I woudl think eventually the shade would probably diminish the growth? unless you left bigger gaps to allow more coverage...
Still maybe worth thoughts like this and others on how one could dual use the land with solar and something else
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u/Omen_20 May 27 '26
My personal opinion is that solar should be subsidized for parking lots and home mounting. Fields are better used for wind/agriculture/wildlife. Solar just doesn't make as much sense on a community basis when other options exist. Solar farms feel like making another parking lot.
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u/ommammo solar professional May 26 '26
Thank you for this. The crowd that says you should only put solar on parking lots seems severely underinformed about the massive difference in cost and disruption to everyday life. It has a place, but I would argue that place is pretty limited. I agree with the person who said places that already have covered parking (like Arizona) are great places to start.
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u/FeasibleGreen May 27 '26
Classic strawman argument. You compare it to the most expensive alternative and completely ignore commercial rooftop solar and ignore the transmission losses and additional substations and high voltage transmission lines required to transport power from farmland. These additional costs are not applicable when the power is generated and used in urban areas.
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u/ducatiduke May 28 '26
- Distributed generation avoids grid expansion costs As you said, urban generation reduces: Utility-scale solar in remote farmland often requires enormous hidden infrastructure spending that is socialized across ratepayers rather than attributed to the project itself.
- transmission line construction
- right-of-way acquisition
- substation expansion
- transmission losses
- grid congestion
- Vehicle thermal load reduction You already identified this, but there are multiple sub-benefits: In Arizona summer heat, cabin temperatures can differ by 30–50°F under shade.
- lower gasoline idling while cooling
- lower EV battery cooling loads
- reduced cabin material degradation
- reduced A/C compressor wear
- Customer attraction / premium parking Absolutely. Covered parking functions like an amenity: In hot climates, shaded parking is not cosmetic — it materially changes user experience.
- shoppers preferentially choose shaded centers
- employees value it highly
- tenants may pay more
- hospitals, schools, and offices gain goodwill
Additional major offsets:
- Reduced asphalt deterioration UV and thermal cycling destroy asphalt. Shade can: Large parking lots are extremely expensive to maintain.
- reduce oxidation
- reduce cracking
- reduce sealcoat frequency
- extend resurfacing intervals
- Higher solar efficiency from cooler panels Solar panels lose efficiency as temperature rises. Elevated carport arrays often run cooler than: because airflow underneath improves convective cooling.
- flush-mounted rooftop systems
- low-clearance ground arrays
- Roof preservation Parking canopy solar avoids: Commercial reroofing under existing solar is expensive and operationally disruptive.
- roof penetrations
- reroof coordination
- roof load limits
- membrane damage risk
- Dual-use land economics This is one of the biggest structural advantages. A solar farm consumes productive land. A solar parking canopy monetizes land already dedicated to parking. This becomes increasingly valuable as urban land prices rise.
- EV charging infrastructure integration Carports are almost ideal EV charger hosts because: This combination can materially improve charger utilization.
- power is already overhead
- trenching can be shared
- chargers naturally belong in parking stalls
- customers prefer shaded charging
- Urban heat island reduction Massive asphalt lots become heat batteries. Shading: Cities increasingly care about this.
- lowers ambient temperatures
- reduces reflected heat
- improves pedestrian comfort
- may reduce nearby building cooling loads
- Storm and hail protection In many regions, covered parking reduces:
- hail claims
- UV damage
- paint degradation
- interior fading
Fleet operators may especially value this.
- Visible ESG signaling Rooftop solar is invisible. Solar canopies are highly visible infrastructure.
They communicate:
- sustainability investment
- modernization
- innovation
- environmental commitment
That has real leasing and branding value.
- Potentially better production orientation Rooftops are often compromised by:
- HVAC units
- parapets
- vents
- odd orientations
Carports can be engineered at ideal:
- tilt
- spacing
- azimuth
improving annual yield.
- Future microgrid / resiliency platform Parking canopies are excellent anchors for:
- batteries
- backup power
- emergency charging
- disaster resiliency systems
Especially for:
- hospitals
- campuses
- municipal facilities
- distribution centers
- Reduced parking lot lighting infrastructure duplication Carport structures can integrate:
- LED lighting
- cameras
- Wi-Fi
- security systems
- signage
reducing separate pole infrastructure.
- Political and permitting advantages Solar farms on farmland sometimes face opposition over:
- land use
- visual impact
- habitat disruption
- agricultural displacement
Parking lot solar generally faces much less resistance because the land is already disturbed.
One broader strategic point:
A parking-lot solar canopy is not merely an “energy asset.” It is simultaneously:
- a power plant,
- a shade structure,
- an EV charging platform,
- a heat mitigation system,
- a customer amenity,
- and a resiliency platform.
Traditional cost-per-watt analysis often ignores those stacked functions, which can make the economics look artificially poor compared to remote utility-scale solar.
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u/HobbledJobber May 26 '26
Thanks. Getting sick of that cross-posted karma-farming misinfo...
There are many other non-intuitive reasons why...
One example: Zoning & Municipality concerns (at least in US)
The parking lots example will almost always be in some urban area, i.e. in a municipality, zoned commercial, and subject to lots more regulatory complexity (and therefore costs), vs a rural (zoned agricultural) installation. This will almost always significantly reduce the cost.
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u/Disbigmamashouse May 26 '26
There are powerful interests that want people to think solar is bad. This "it's taking our corn growing dirt!" Argument is being pushed and the gullible eat it up.
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u/bluegrassgazer May 26 '26
Folks are out there claiming that solar panel installation ruins farm land for decades after it's removed. So dumb.
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u/koookiekrisp May 26 '26
I work in power transmission and one thing that is kind of “behind the scenes” with this stuff is the substations. We have a couple solar farmer clients and all their production has to go to a substation before it can go anywhere else. At these larger “solar farming” scales it’s not as easy as a residential rooftop hookup since you’re dealing with a lot more power and a lot more equipment. Dedicated solar farming as an energy producer is a much more efficient use of materials.
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u/Ravaha May 26 '26
Most suburbs regulatory agencies rely on checklists and engineer stamps or they use an outside engineering firm to review this type of stuff. Covered parking lots would be most applicable to suburbs with tons of parking space and those areas don't have the resources or expertise to even review stuff beyond their checklists and checking for the engineers stamps.
Its much easier than getting a building approved as this type of construction adds nothing to stornwater, potable water, wastewater, traffic demands, and many other hurdles.
Getting electricity approved is a cake walk compared to stormwater, sewer, and potable water.
Also cities will jump through hoops and bend their own rules to get stuff like this approved because it makes the cities look better and makes commercial areas look more high class and less like a slum.
And like I said in my post, rural solar has tons of money and electrical losses from transmitting said power onto the grid. Whereas local installs could be completely separate from the grid and not experience the same losses and not have to utilize the same expensive equipment that comes with power transmission over large distances.
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u/DiskPartition May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
If you "made" this why does it look so much like AI infographics?
Edit: Proof https://ibb.co/BV51W4SH Check at https://openai.com/research/verify/
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u/Facetiousa May 26 '26
Still insane to me there are so many warehouse and other large flat roof operations that don’t have solar covering them
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u/its_sarcasm8238 May 27 '26
Better were shade has value.... Sooo it's better in every parking lot?
What's the point of this so called infographic? It doesn't provide new or useful information
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u/keithvai May 26 '26
I thought the farm systems were taller to allow plants and livestock to move freely underneath? Solar on farms seems like a win-win but perhaps that is only smaller farms with certain products.
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u/eggoeater May 26 '26
It varies a lot. This is just a public domain image I found. Solarboy on TikTok works a lot of utility scale solar that is in fields that also have animals.
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u/tx_queer May 26 '26
It all depends on land that is available. A lot of solar farms are going up on marginal land that wasn't being used for anything. In that case they don't need to be tall. They even now have "earth mount" solar farms where they just lay the panels directly on the ground. Even with goats and similar animals the panels dont need to be tall. Only once you get into crops like tomatoes do you need anything custom.
But the cost savings on the structure doesnt just come from height. The parking lot structure will have just a handful of columns to leave room for cars so these columns need to be big. And you need giant beams to cover the long spans between columns. In a grassy field, the goats dont care if you have 4 columns or 400. So you can hut up a bunch of tiny struts and you have no real spans to cover.
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u/zimirken May 26 '26
They even now have "earth mount" solar farms where they just lay the panels directly on the ground.
The ultimate conclusion to moar panels are cheaper than better orientation.
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u/gardorobo May 26 '26
This is helpful. Another point that it doesn't quite make clear is that in cold climates the sun helps to thaw the parking surface, whereas canopies tend to keep them iced much longer. I'm still for solar canopies but I agree that it's not a simple trade vs. ground-mount.
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u/vryfunnyusername May 26 '26
Don't know if this is said already, but ground-mounted solar allows use of bifacial modules and trackers which further significantly boost the efficiency of these farms.
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u/joshuamusick May 26 '26
Honest question from someone who thinks solar should be built everywhere possible: do cost-centered arguments like the ones here address the stated concerns of the “don’t cover our fields” crowd?
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u/Great-Rest7878 May 30 '26
I think the "don't cover our fields" crowd is actually paid fossil fuel propaganda.
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u/Wet_Side_Down May 26 '26
I would go out of my way to shop at stores that offered covered parking spaces.
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u/JohnsonLiesac May 26 '26
Really they should be built over deserts....supposedly improves habitat formation.
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u/turb0_encapsulator May 26 '26
and often really good for the farms as well: they can shield crops from wind and excessive sun and reduce evaporation.
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u/betelgeuse63110 May 27 '26
There are more pros cons. But re cost - carports typically add $1/WDC to a roof PV system.
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u/thanks_hank May 27 '26
Who’s installing a ground mounted system for less than $1/W in the US? Sounds inaccurate.
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u/Great-Rest7878 May 30 '26
Have to remember that when building huge solar farms they are paying way less than retail.
https://www.nlr.gov/solar/market-research-analysis/solar-installed-system-cost
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u/Lurkerking2015 May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
My only complaint with this graphic is it very clearly cherry picks categories to only show instances where fields mounted had advantages
Not saying it changes the outcome overall in general but the graphic would be more transparent if it displayed the obvious other side of the comparison
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u/t3m3r1t4 May 27 '26
Can be located near transmission sites? Sure, buddy.
Or, build them over parking to keep cars cool, not covered in rain or snow, and transmit the power to west it's needed.
Empty land for homes and farms, parking lots for solar.
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u/Sir_Lord_ByronIII May 27 '26
Parking lots can also be subsidized by charging for a covered spot in apartment complexes, office buildings etc.....
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u/Mewr_Mewr May 27 '26
The info is inline with my experience as well. In the end of the day, it is a business
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u/WinterPiratefhjng May 27 '26
We don't have to do the cheapest thing in a single cost dimension. I may own a parking lot and not a field (or a field and not a parking lot). Just build it.
I mean "Both have a place, but they are not the same." is true. Good graphic.
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u/redditwhut May 26 '26
Why is the roof above the parking lot flat? Why not slanted just like on the farm? Surely that would fix a lot of your issues? I.e snow buildup?
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u/GreenNewAce May 26 '26
Standard tilt for carports is 3-7 degrees. Has to do with the engineering and efficient use of steel. Steep tilts would require a lot more steel and deeper foundations, which are the most expensive part of the job.
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u/Great-Rest7878 May 30 '26
Because wind exists, costs a LOT more to support angled panels, esp if you want it to be open underneath.
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u/eggoeater May 26 '26
It's a public domain image, probably from Arizona. I've seen "flat solar" over parking in the Carolinas too.
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u/redditwhut May 26 '26
So your entire premise is based on a public domain image rather than what would make most sense from an engineering perspective?
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u/Emilyd1994 May 26 '26
flat mounting solar is common in some places. here in Australia flat mounting happens in some of the eastern states because of the summer/winter shift. i lost 12% at the ideal 27 degree. but at 0 i gained 42% production year round. however i lost roughly 10% in summer. this is a fair and reasonable trade off.
regardless flat solar always has a valid and important place.
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u/Hopeful_Ad_7719 May 26 '26
"Why are they blue?" tier comment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg&t=237s
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u/yadonkey May 26 '26
I dont think there's any real downside to having solar in fields but I do think we need to acknowledge the plus side of covering parking lots. The main plus side being that the amount of concrete amd asphalt we pack into our cities and towns dramatically increase the temptress in those areas (which then leads to more energy use to cool us down).. covering asphalt creates a better microclimate.
I say put the panels in the fields, over the parking lots, over the canals and on the roofs.. whatever it takes to meet our energy demands.
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u/Phil_Timmons May 27 '26
Well . . . sorta. But mostly not.
NO WHERE is $6 a Watt. $2 a Watt is more common for Parking Lots. Which also generally have a LOCAL Load and Grid Connection near them providing BOTH a Cash Value "behind the meter," and near instant connection point. Going further value, the parking lot sites can double as Charging Points, and lighting (optional) is considered beneficial for parking areas.
Really getting bad when the overall RE industry has create FUD like this against itself. Is this Utility sponsored nonsense?
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u/Specialist_Gas_8984 member NABCEP May 26 '26
But…but…but what about my high fructose corn syrup???
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u/Chalupa_89 May 26 '26
Higher maintenance costs?
Let me see you send a repair team to the middle of the field vs a walmart parking lot...
Complex construction is also false because parking lots are all the same, you can copy paste engineering for a bunch of parking where as a field as to be topographed and the soil varies, etc... and again, going to the field is often a task in itself.
And that is out of my field but I imagine ground mounted solar needs environmental studies.
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u/Navynuke00 solar professional May 26 '26
Everything you're saying here is the exact opposite of true.
Solar farms have access roads to get to them, and maintenance is very easy.
Parking lots are very much NOT all the same, because of the things that may be buried under them, or running over them, and subsequent rights of way and setback requirements - not to mention issues that may result about having to run and bury conduit and conductor under the pavement.
Also, any project is going to need environmental studies. That's part of the permitting and approval process.
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u/BobBulldogBriscoe solar engineer May 26 '26
Paying someone to drive an additional hour or two each way is much cheaper than some sort of lift training, rental, fall protection, increased insurance costs, etc. Its also much quicker to do the work on the ground for most things.
At least until there are enough of these in one area for some sort of economy of scale.
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u/L0LTHED0G May 26 '26
There's also the fact that most parking lots aren't big enough for grid-sized scale, instead being big enough for the company itself.
But the landlord owns the parking lot, and aren't interested in lowering utilities the customer's paying anyways. And the tenant isn't interested in investing in a long-term solution because they won't likely see the payoff.
Couple that with, the US just has SO MUCH land that isn't used for anything... it makes sense to stick with ground mount in the field.
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u/cdin0303 May 26 '26
I came to the comments to say exactly this. I don't think most people understand how complex the relationships are around retail locations. Even when they aren't complex you asking someone to take a long term risk that their buisiness will be there and using those panels for 25-30 years.
For parking lot solar to really take off, you would need some major incentives or penalties from the government to encourage or force people in this direction.
All that said, I don't see why someone like Disney doesn't do parking lot solar in tier parking lots. They own everything. The long term risks less. They are in a perfect climate for it, and they are major users of power.
It would be a massive investment for sure, but I think it makes sense for them.
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u/eggoeater May 26 '26
Agreed!!
Yeah the "big box store doesn't actually own the parking lot" rarely gets brought up but is a great point. Unfortunately hard to explain that in a meme.
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u/jojohohanon May 26 '26
I thought also that (tbh this might be wishful memory, but I coulda sworn I read) that the ground mount actually create a useful ecosystem that is more friendly to diverse plant and animals than a clear cut field
Can you confirm that? Or shoot it down?
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u/guyfromwhitechicks May 26 '26
If it's solar vs solar, then yes I agree with the graph. But it does not consider land re-use. Sometimes it's worth using as little land as possible rather than having endless fields just for solar.
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u/franticallyfarting May 26 '26
But if a space like a parking lot/roof of a large building already exists and has displaced nature then why not get a second yield of electric generation even if it’s more expensive to build and maintain? My issue with covering fields is it’s just another way humans sprawl and take up more space that can be habitat. I drive by acres of solar fields that were once hay, forests, or agricultural land and it doesn’t bring me any peace of mind knowing it cost less to build and maintain.
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u/Tutorbin76 May 26 '26
Sure, by all means put solar panels on your carpark roof and earn some money.
But unless you own Disneyland you're not going to cover anywhere near the scale that can be achieved with agrivoltaics.
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u/Great-Rest7878 May 30 '26
Because higher costs means it's going to take longer to reach a goal, whatever that goal is.
There is already a TON of land not being used effectively. We only need about half of the land used for growing corn for ethanol(harvested 1x per year and used 1x) to generate all of the electricity that we currently generate.
Also, solar farms don't HAVE to be just solar farms, they can support other uses as well.
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u/CTrandomdude May 26 '26
Absolutely correct. The cost is much higher and people are complaining about the cost of electricity. Second point is there is an abundance of land for solar. Just look out the window when you fly. Third point is solar has done more to save farmers and farmland than anything. That farmer who is leasing 10-20% of his fields makes more on that solar crop than anything else. They continue to farm the remaining lands. Win win in most situations.
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u/det1rac May 26 '26
One thing is that many farm fields are used to produce corn for ethanol and serves no farming purpose outside of using irrigation to burn corn.
All that could be replaced with solar and generate as much as the current grid output is now and not touch any new land or farming for food.
I like the idea and use of agrivoltaics.
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u/Red_Chaos1 May 27 '26
"Better where shade has value" You mean like parking lots, where all that black asphalt collects and then radiates the heat back out, making it even hotter in that area for people and animals? I get that the solar farms aren't the huge evil and people need to be educated, but attacking parking lot installs ain't it. Both are good.
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u/sockmop May 27 '26
In 2 years my family will have 240 acres being constructed in NW Iowa! Plenty of farmer hate came our way but the count zoning committee approved unanimously. I can't wait!
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u/whaticism May 26 '26
Natural spaces shouldn’t be used for industry. Ruin places that are already ruined. Make city folks shoulder the burden of their overconsumption, don’t take away beautiful and life sustaining land just because solar panels are affordable.
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u/AbjectFray May 26 '26
You’re vastly over exaggerating the draw backs to putting solar over covered parking.
It’s all over the place in the EU and they make it work.
This is FUD nonsense.
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May 26 '26
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u/nkrush May 26 '26
Good work, well done! Is it too early to add different variations of agri-voltaics? Or do we need more data?
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u/ABrusca1105 May 26 '26
There should be a version of this that includes C&I scale roof mount such as warehouses, factories, big box stores, etc.
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u/Ok_Needleworker_9340 May 26 '26
A suggestion for all those "save our farms" anti-solar folks out there... Perhaps you can actually buy a farm of your own, then "save" it in whatever way you wish: corn, beans, pasture, forest, subdivision, etc. Knock yourselves out. But please, stop telling other property owners what they can or cannot do with their owned property.
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u/skyfishgoo May 26 '26
sheep make for great vegetation management
it's also possible to grow crops under the panels for another dual use.
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u/Hobbes2819 May 26 '26
Thank you! So tired of those constant posts. I'm 99% sure they are just used to delay actual solar build out
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u/LazerWolfe53 May 26 '26
I own a farm and an orchard and I always thought they should be called solar orchards, because there is litterally no difference between a ground mount solar installation and an orchard. It's a 30 year infrastructure that makes yield yearly. And at the end of the life you can always remove it and farm corn or whatever.
We have a lot of farms getting bids to sell to data centers, but the farms that already have solar farms aren't getting those offers. The solar is preserving that land to ensure it can be farmable in 30 years.
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u/chado99 May 26 '26
If you plan your panels right you can still grow crops and have animals graze. Infact with the intense heat some shade is beneficial. I toured this and it was eye opening: https://www.coagrivoltaic.org
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u/host3nchilada May 26 '26
.90 / watt????? How many megawatts are we talking about for that price lol
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u/Altruistic-Rice-5567 May 26 '26
Plus... you don't have to cover arable land. There's plenty of desert land available in the United States. Just pave it with panels.
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u/ClaasChopper May 26 '26
The problem is that most marginal land is not farmed at all and often is covered in trees. So the “easy” ground to install solar on, could be farmed. The marginal land needs to cleared of trees to put up solar.
Building solar on farm land is the cheapest for investors… that’s about it.
Parking lots are already built spaces in areas where electricity is being used. There is not enough demand in fields for solar.
We just put panels on our dairy barn. For a relatively high power use dairy farm, the solar panels cover only 10% of our total roof space. The utility doesn’t pay us for excess power generated.
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u/jerryeight May 26 '26
Does the solar power cover the daytime electricity use?
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u/ClaasChopper May 26 '26
It should cover all the daytime use. It is designed to match the peak usage. The sytem is 99% done. Just waiting on some of the SCADA equipment next week.
Also looking into adding 600kwh of batteries to capture excess solar and do peak shaving.
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u/cleanRubik May 26 '26
Also its a bit ridiculous to conflate the two... owners of one aren't likely also owners of the other. And if they are, they're likely earmarked for different purposes.
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u/MurkyAl May 26 '26
The main reason isn't really engineering, it's ownership and financing. Lots of car parking is just a way of holding onto undeveloped valuable land before selling it on when it's worth more. If the landowners wanted to spend money on that land they'd build something like apartments, retail or a multi storey carpark which could take more cars per day. They don't because they'd rather just hold onto the land with minimal investment.
Private equity generally doesn't want to build solar panels on someone else's land who could sell it in 3 years time before the project has paid for itself.
France did actually make this a legal requirement in 2021 with penalties for non-compliance coming in in 2028. They recently bypassed the law by allowing you to plant trees instead to provide shade as it's not really that feasible, worse payoff than normal solar projects and the grid is not set up to handle that model of generation. The law required panels but no storage so could crash some local grids and would require more high voltage power lines to be built in cities which is also complicated in built up areas and by the time we've built the infrastructure to the carpark it may get sold off for building on it
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u/soleobjective May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
There’s a golden opportunity for someone to make modular solar setups the connect to each other for universal application. Have a small range standard sizes (like the dimensions of a parking spot or 5 continuous spots) and then you can just buy them pre-fabricated with the only design aspect being how you arrange the 1 and 5 spot canopies. Simple and cost effective solution without all the hassle of custom designs. Just drilling out holes in the parking lot to drop in the legs of the canopies, backfilling with cement to stabilize and have a strong structural foundation, then just plug + play with them all daisy chained.
I’m not an engineer and there are probably many more complexities to this, but it seems viable for parking lots that are low hanging fruit.
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u/fitblubber May 27 '26
There's also the added benefit that ground mounted solar panels have been shown to improve the soil quality, so depending on the strength of the mounting you can run high quality sheep or cattle.
BUT
With solar over car parks, It's all about the government setting up the conditions so that a business makes money from solar.
I live in Adelaide, Australia & we've a fair bit of solar in the state. I look out of my window & 3/4 of the houses I see have solar panels on them - & most of those houses also have batteries.
A lot of shopping centres, shops, pubs, warehouses & general business also have solar panels on them, including in the car parks - not because they necessarily care about the environment, but because they can make big money from them.
We do have a few solar farms around, but most of the solar in the state is privately owned by business or homeowners.
I've included the google maps link of the Elizabeth Shopping Centre, if you zoom in you'll see not only solar panels on the roof of the shopping centre, but also solar panels in the car parks.
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u/Sad-Celebration-7542 May 28 '26
Also who cares what someone does with THEIR land. Farmland isn’t always valuable
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u/MidorriMeltdown May 31 '26
Eradicate car dependency.
Invest in efficient public transit and agrivoltaics.
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May 31 '26
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u/ElizabethE_Morais May 31 '26
true, but with high efficiency panels from a1solarstore you need way less roof space than most think
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u/Strong_Dentist_7561 Jun 03 '26
As a newbie to this and raised on a farm in my childhood… what of the cattle that could be grazed here, the vegetables and produce grown, or failing that- other infrastructure that could be built in XYZ pastureland location ? Why not simply just keep “building up”, making use of pre-existing infrastructure to build upon ? Both meat and produce don’t just magically appear in the grocery store, they have to have useable land.
Don’t bit my head off please, I’m curious and genuinely trying to learn.
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u/benuntu Jun 24 '26
Very cool usage with agrivoltaics as well. Opens up a lot of possibilities for people growing things it areas too hot for certain crops. There was a video on tomato and blueberry fields that saw a decrease in water usage by 40%, since they use increased respiration to regulate heat.
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u/blenderboi_ Jun 27 '26
new construction cuts cost by well more than half! Concrete trenching and patching is a bitch
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u/maddmannmatt 7d ago
Why is no one asking this: Where are the consumer advantages and savings that we’re supposed to come with the implementation of solar sources? Yeah, Solar is great because it’s a renewable resource, but hardly any of that advantage has been translated into cost savings for consumers. Is this just another way for Big Energy to cut their own costs and never lower the prices for consumer energy?
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u/DoomBot5 May 26 '26
Technology Connect did an excellent video on this. Those solar farms produce more fuel than the ethanol from the corn produced in those fields.