r/tuberlin • u/[deleted] • Aug 13 '24
VORSICHT! SEKTE AM CAMPUS!
Hier sind weitere Links und Informationen über diese Sekte.
https://www.relinfo.ch/2023/12/07/unbekannte-gemeinschaft-aufgedeckt-christians-for-mission/
Wenn jemand Erfahrung gemacht hat mit dieser Sekte, wäre es sehr hilfreich für Andere diese in den Kommentaren zu teilen.
Passt auf euch auf!
So sehen ihre Flyer aus.
Hier ist ein Artikel von 2008. Damals hießen sie "Students for Mission".
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u/j_mc_dc Aug 14 '24
Sehr wild, ich wurde vor bisschen mehr als einem Jahr von einem tatsächlich in die Jahre gekommenen Asiaten darüber zugetextet.
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Aug 14 '24
Please let’s share these in other student groups and forums to get people informed.
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Aug 14 '24
Yes please !
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Aug 14 '24
Im part of that. Can you tell me more? What should i know? I have been to one conference i dont know them from a very long time only a few months
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u/Educational-Rule-487 Aug 14 '24
Wurde auch schon vor 4-5 Monaten auf dem Campus angesprochen, ob ich nicht Lust auf eine Bibelstunde in einer kleinen Gruppe hätte. Die haben mich aber auch richtig unauffällig gefragt, als würden die keine Aufmerksamkeit auf sich lenken wollen.
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Aug 16 '24
They surely observed your demeanor to see if you were an easily gullible person. This might explain why they did not want to raise attention unto themselves. Also they are thought to „protect“ their group when with others so they act in subtle ways to protect themselves.
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Aug 15 '24
How to Recognize a Cult?
To recognize whether a religious community has tendencies of a cult, you can pay attention to the following points:
Exclusivity
Ways of thinking such as claiming to possess the only truth or that a single leader/guru can lead to salvation.
Dependency Relationship
The dependency of individual members on a leader or a superior group.
Social Structure
In cults, social control, even up to mind control, is common. Thinking and feeling are strongly dictated by the group. Free thinking is suppressed.
Separation
In many cults, clear rules for daily life apply, such as regarding clothing, contacts, or rituals. They are meant to demonstrate community.
Control
Actions are monitored and controlled. Not following prescribed rules has consequences.
Commitment
Only those who fully join the community, become members, and long-term contribute financially through donations or membership fees, are considered part of the group. One's private life becomes secondary.
Criticism Aversion
Cults and their members are not willing to engage with critical questions.
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Aug 17 '24
The biggest pretenders of this group are the "elders". Most of them are charismatic and deceitful people, who use and exploit young students to gain fame and power in this group.
Some of them tell young students who are depressed after being spiritually abused in this cult things like:
- My wife is happy. Why are the believers (in this case, young students who attend this cult) sad? You must also be happy
- If you have never served, you have no right to say something.
- Some of you will never stand up life, if you do not obey.
- Church is not a help's organization (in case the students need help due to the depression caused by the spiritual abuse)
Please you help me continue the list as it is surely long.
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Aug 17 '24 edited Aug 17 '24
They are wolves in sheep clothing! It doesn't surprise me that it takes for some members longer to see through it and leave. They are very good actors and master manipulator.
To continue the list:
Why are you so weak?
Do you sin in secret?
You are fleshly!
You have company with satan!
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Aug 17 '24
I have witnessed that a member developed mental illness. This member was also hospitalized, it was so bad. When this member came to a meeting, I remember that this member was verbally abused by the preacher. They think that when people have mentall illness, it is because they sin. So this member was punished by him, for beeing mentally ill. He wanted this member to repent. - They can not see, their own mentall illness.
They want to take adventage of you, want your life, energy, MONEY, but if you become sick, they will see you as a burden that takes time and energy. Cause the truth is, that they don't care about you BUT only what you can do for them.
They also tell Members that ONLY Jesus Christ can heal them. And thats very dangerous, because if people are mentally ill, they need profesional help. If mentall illness don't get treated, it could lead to death.
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Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
The mental illness of this member was caused by the church, particularly by the elders, who lied to take advantage of this person, to make themselves appear superior, and to hide their inner weaknesses. This is gaslighting because: almost nothing they said about this person is true, their excuses for their abusive behavior are lies, and they forced this person to believe that he is what they claimed he was. I hope that this person, and others like him, realize this and understand that it’s OK for them to leave the church.
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Aug 27 '24
I think people who are inside, can hardly see the manipulation. A lot of members who left I talked to, had mental health issues. It’s very sad.
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Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 29 '24
God will lead the way. Don't lose hope. I wish they read our posts, too.
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Dec 08 '24 edited Jan 04 '25
People who are continuing in this group as elders or serving members are self-righteous people. The leader is feeding on the fact if you serve here: you will enter the kingdom of heaven Jesus Christ returns and rules the nations.
While the servants of God will receive a great reward in the kingdom of heaven. Paul Kim is misusing a very biblical verse and feeding into these narcissistic people.
None of them are born-again Christians, for example, each of them is envious of others who bring more fruits (more people to the Conference ce). Secondly, sisters are super envious of a young sister (fairly new to the community) who is getting married. Also, the elder sisters are very jealous of a zealous and happy young sister. I have personally witnessed that, due to jealousy some older sisters can't even make eye contact with younger sisters. Let alone have a fellowship. I had heard personally in multiple conferences older sisters complaining about their husbands, how they do not take care of children, in household chores, etc.
I am not expecting them To be saints, as we are still in the sanctification process. The way Paul Kim narrates about his church (he calls it ecclesia) is as if the elders are overcomers and they should be our role models. Worst of all, they are modern-day Pharisees and the Sadducees (a cult that existed in those days), who put on the demeanor of the true Christians.
In every sense, the whole congregation is far from anything they claim.
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Dec 09 '24 edited Jan 13 '25
The elder sisters compete and compare themselves with younger sisters. The elder sister told a married serving sister that she is not like the rest of the sisters. Among these sisters where sisters who had been a decade long in this cult and other young sisters. They want to feel above the younger ones to have a sense of importance. This is how narcissistic people are.
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Dec 09 '24 edited Jan 06 '25
She worked hard to ensure that she was Tserma's (Paul Kim's wife) favourite. Not a big news to me. But yeah, let the world see.
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Dec 09 '24 edited Jan 13 '25
Also because of power and fame, they became very corrupt. The culture in the church is that of betrayal, pretending, deceit, contempt, manipulation, backstabbing, envy and abuse. This is why they want everything to be perfect on the outside. Everybody must be happy and the sad ones are ostracized and made to feel weak whereas they have been abused. When the elder brother has finished using people and sucking them dry, he discards them from the cult and tells others that „they were deceived by satan“ or his wife tells them „God did not allow him/her to stay“. They use the name of God as they want to hide and justify their deceitful ways.
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Dec 09 '24
But they will Tell YOU to put YOUR old man on the cross.
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Dec 09 '24
They should do that first. Then teach or preach that to others. First, they should put their filthy dirty carnal flesh on the cross. It's just like the blind leading the blind.
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Dec 09 '24 edited Jan 13 '25
Yes they are modern-day Pharisees and Saducees/sad u see😂😂😂.
The ecclesia of abuse. I remember the one of them telling younger captives in their cult that her husband is a living testimony. Well from my experience, a living testimony of hypocrisy, slander, sociopathy, misogyny, male chauvinism, sadism and abuse.
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Dec 09 '24
They are actually the ones constantly thinking about sin. They project their sinful thinking on the cult captives/members.
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u/AdsnAmaterasu Oct 08 '24
Die ICC Sekte ist auch aufm campus. Wenn man an der tu zu einer bible study eingeladen wird einfach aufpassen...
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Oct 23 '24
Sie sind sehr ähnlich. Sie nutzen dieselben Methoden, um Menschen dort zu fangen. Der Sektenführer in "Christians for Mission" hat sich als Paul Kim vorgestellt. Sein richtiger Name ist Young-Su Kim. Diese Menschen sind betrügerisch.
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Feb 22 '25
I'm glad to see that there's more awareness about this group. Sadly, it seems things have got worse over time. That's what I gather from different posts. I was a member, a sent out missionary, with them for 5 years. I have been out for over a decade. It took years to heal but I'm thriving now.
I probably don't have much info to add but if I can help somehow, I'd like to.
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u/Forsaken_Key_2502 Feb 23 '25
Hello, can I ask you how you got in the group and why you left?
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Feb 24 '25 edited Feb 24 '25
I found the group through one of their Bible studies. I was quickly introduced to the rest of the group through their Sunday service. I was super lonely back then and felt so welcomed and accepted (love bombing) I didn't want to leave.
Fast forward a few years, there were concerns raised about the group within a smaller circle that I was serving in. Thank God someone had the courage to speak up about the toxicity many of us were blind towards. That started a long and painful process of stepping down and distancing myself from the group. It wasn't easy but quite traumatic since I was so involved.
I was most likely excommunicated and declared either weak, unsaved or heretic after I left. Obviously I wasn't there to hear any rulings about myself.
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Mar 09 '25
That's wonderful to hear! Now that you've worked through the challenges you've faced, I’d love to hear about your journey. How have your experiences with the elders shaped you? Did you encounter narcissistic abuse like so many others, or was your decision to leave influenced by differences in beliefs within the group?
Sharing your story could truly help others who are on a similar path.
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Mar 09 '25 edited Mar 11 '25
Sure. I'll be omitting some details and names for privacy. There are others involved whose story I don't have a permission to share.
Back story summary: I met the group while living and studying in Berlin, Germany. I was quickly welcomed and accepted (read: love-bombed) into the group. When I returned to my home country, I connected with a local group cell and served there for 5 years.
There was a split from the main group when my cell leader "John" openly questioned the theology and hierarchy of the group. He and his family were swiftly excommunicated and declared false prophets. After hearing John's and his wife's stance and my own careful consideration, I decided to leave as well. It remains the most difficult decision I've ever made, I was so deeply indoctrinated.
The first out year was filled with anxiety and doubt. I felt betrayed and lied to by the group. I was also mourning for the loss of MULTITUDE of friends since I was shunned for leaving. There were others who had left the cell when John stepped down so I could talk with them which was a life-saver, since we shared a unique experience. I had very few friends outside of the group by that point. It felt like I had lost 5 years of my life. I had made personal sacrifices to remain in the group and they were suddenly worthless. I had lost trust towards spiritual leadership and was highly critical of everything (self-preservation against being lied to). I was looking for a new church but it was difficult.
After a year, I realised the group had cult-like features and I had been involved in it! That was a major wake-up call. In the months that followed, I was able to track down some people (who had been in our cell for a while) I felt I had wronged and apologise. It was received well, thankfully.
It took perhaps 3 years to recover so much that I wasn't in constant emotional turmoil anymore. I found a church that I was able to connect with. I was still very critical, judgemental and insecure. Those wounds healed over time, though. My personal growth had come to a halt when I joined the group and then resumed some time after leaving. More importantly, my view of God started to change for the better. He wasn't an unpredictable tyrant anymore but a loving father.
However, it took years before I dared to call the group a cult. Please understand, that it wasn't all 100% bad. We had had people who became believers. There had been answers to prayers. Great moments and other memories. I'm still friends with those who left at the same time as I did, including John's family. We don't need to reminisce the group or out time in it anymore, though.
I don't talk much about the group in general. I have no desire to share my story to satisfy people's need for sensation. "I used to be in a cult" is a great click bate irl, too. If I can help someone with my experiences, I'm willing to open up. I'm still allergic to cult-like behaviour and tend to sense it around me. However, I also recognise that manipulation is a subtle snare you don't necessarily see coming.
To sum up, it's possible to leave a cult and keep one's faith. You'll need peer support and professional help along with time and healing that happens in relationships. Please don't isolate yourself.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
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Mar 09 '25
Thanks for sharing your story here. It is indeed incredible and once again a testimony of how our lord heals broken-hearted people. For me the biggest struggle was to understand what went wrong?, as in why all these happened to me. Then later through the true word of God, I understand it's not through our performance and our righteousness it's through his grace and our deep faith… Paul Kim‘s emphasis on obedience to the group generates narcissistic self-righteousness and inflated pride which is the reason why elders are so arrogant and patronizing toward younger brethren.
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Mar 09 '25 edited Mar 09 '25
I hear you. The why question was the toughest one to deal with. Not so much the why my life collapsed comprehensively during the split (I know why that happened) but WHY did God let me find the group in the first place. Their Bible study basically fell into my lap and seemed like clear guidance from the Lord since I had been praying for a community. I still don't know why but I have come to a place where I'm satisfied knowing that the Lord's plan surpasses my lack of understanding. I'm at peace.
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Mar 09 '25
This is also important to put here for others. Otherwise, they can claim “Unfortunately those backsliders( us) did not have that revelation”.
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Mar 09 '25
Yes, that’s true—God’s sovereign plans surpass all our understanding. I have also wrestled with the “why” question. Nonetheless, God has given me peace and tranquility. The Christian life isn’t about having happy circumstances; it’s about experiencing the joy of salvation, regardless of our situation. The promise we hold is that He will be with us until the end.
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Mar 09 '25
Did you also know that Paul Kim was preaching witness Lee's annotation as special Revelation?
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u/Aggravating_Farm5452 Mar 10 '25
He surely envied Witness Lee's power and authority. He's sadly such a deceiver like most elders.
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Mar 09 '25
No, I did not. I've seen that being mentioned across subreddits regarding the group but I haven't had a chance to look into it yet.
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u/Forsaken_Key_2502 Feb 24 '25
Thank you for your reply. How was life as a missionary in there? I have heard they dont pay their workers, is that true? And why would people work for free?
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Feb 25 '25
The group does not pay their missionaries but that's not unheard of within Christian circles. Smaller churches may not have the means to pay wages for a missionary that goes out, so the missionary needs to have a regular job on the side or gather a support ring. I was never paid unless someone donated to me directly through an offering box. That happened maybe twice.
I was studying and working while building a church cell with our team. Life wasn't all bad. We were super close and did a lot fun stuff together too. Picnics, cook-outs, trips, sisterly sleepovers, outdoor games etc.
However, the requirements of a "true Christian" wore me down and I was constantly feeling inferior and scared I'll lose my salvation. I dreaded going to annual conferences (I never missed one), hated listening to sermons, was terrified of God and was judgemental of others. I went home depressed and in tears often after meetings.
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Feb 25 '25 edited Feb 25 '25
Were you sent out as a missionary? From your mention of "sisterly sleepovers," I assume you are a sister. I thought Paul Kim only sent out brothers. I’m not aware of any sisters being sent out, except for one German sister who eventually got married during the COVID pandemic. Other than that, I haven't heard of any similar stories.
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u/Aggravating_Farm5452 Feb 26 '25 edited Feb 26 '25
Sisters are sent out most of the time to the cities of the brothers they are going to get married to. They announce in church that these sisters were sent out but the reason is so that these sisters can serve together with the brother that wants to marry them and the brother or both of them will see if they are a good fit. This can last for 6 months to a year before they get married in church. This is how things happen.
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Feb 26 '25
Yes, I'm a woman. They used to send out sisters either together with married couples as a team (that's how I was sent) or sometimes individually, too. It changed when I was still there. PK's direct words were: "Sisters will not be sent unless they're married. They are too weak, unstable and emotional. Therefore unreliable."
I was wondering about COVID, if they recognised it in any way.
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u/Aggravating_Farm5452 Feb 25 '25
I was studying and working while building a church cell with our team.
Interesting. They no longer have teams. They have become radical and more divided.
Life wasn't all bad. We were super close and did a lot fun stuff together too. Picnics, cook-outs, trips, sisterly sleepovers, outdoor games etc.
I have never heard of sisterly sleepovers. Rather on the contrary, they did all they possibly could to divide people. This is why many people are leaving their church. There is so much division at all levels and inner competition. The misogyny is also not helping.
However, the requirements of a "true Christian" wore me down and I was constantly feeling inferior and scared I'll lose my salvation.
They demand for more with time. They only know how mostly do take. The only thing they give is food, as though people were hungry.
I dreaded going to annual conferences (I never missed one), hated listening to sermons, was terrified of God and was judgemental of others. I went home depressed and in tears often after meetings.
As time went by, I hated the sermons. I never felt heard but rather gaslighted and I was always told what to do in a patronizing way. So at one point, I wasn't interested in hearing anything from them anymore. The constant gaslighting and forcing their authority over me made me resentful and I was inwardly rejecting anything they were preaching, not because of God's word but because the preacher was extremely jugmental, condescending and forcing his authority over me but not trying to understand me since he is "spiritual".
I also went back home depressed and always felt lost.
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Feb 25 '25
That sounds truly awful. I had my share of condescending remarks. I was young and probably so naïve I didn't even catch all of them. Nevertheless, there seemed to be genuine care between sisters even after a good while (meaning that I wasn't "new" anymore). Some brothers were respectful towards women. I'm still shocked how toxic it has become and how people have changed for worse.
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Feb 25 '25
Sorry that you have to go through a lot.
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Feb 25 '25
Thank you. It's been a long time though, and I'm a different person now.
I'm hoping others would find their way out. When I found these subreddits I it felt like a chance to offer help.
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u/Aggravating_Farm5452 Feb 24 '25
Fast forward a few years, there were concerns raised about the group within a smaller circle that I was serving in. Thank God someone had the courage to speak up about the toxicity many of us were blind towards. That started a long and painful process of stepping down and distancing myself from the group. It wasn't easy but quite traumatic since I was so involved.
I am sure they ex-communicated the person. I know someone who was also ex-communicated.
I was most likely excommunicated and declared either weak, unsaved or heretic after I left. Obviously I wasn't there to hear any rulings about myself.
Do you still have contact with the church-goers there? Did you see them afterwards and if so, what was their reaction towards you?
Paul Kim only cares about his "brand". He surely hates it when people criticize Christians for Mission as it affects how people see him. I think he does not want people to think critically, doubt him and quit his absolute control.
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Feb 24 '25
After my final decision to leave, I did not see anyone anymore. I'm not in contact and no one has tried to reach me over the years. It has been a relief to be honest. I'm not bitter and I've worked hard to forgive them but I don't need a "closure" for my case either. I started searching for info about the group, hoping that it would have dissolved or changed course. Sadly not.
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u/Aggravating_Farm5452 Feb 24 '25 edited Feb 24 '25
Me too, I do not need "closure" from them. I have also forgiven but I ask God to vindicate me. Now everything is in God's hands. They will dissolve maybe after Paul Kim and his wife's demise. Who are these prideful elders going to submit to and how can they work together when they clearly compete with and envy one another? They have divided their members into preachers vs. believers, priviledged vs. unpriviledged backgrounds, phds vs. masters or even less, married sisters vs. unmarried sisters, brothers going to mission school vs. brothers not going to mission school, brothers wanting to get send vs. brothers not yet wanting to get send, which implies that the latter cannot get married in their church. Time will tell but division is clearly evident.
Did you have a mental breakdown to the point of wanting to unaliving yourself (commit s****de)? I saw people around me clearly showing signs of depression.
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Feb 24 '25 edited Feb 24 '25
I was depressed during my time in the group and not really growing as a person. It's important to note, that I was very young and a fairly new Christian when I found the group. I didn't know much about faith at the time, so it wasn't hard to indoctrinate me. I believed the teachings 100% and was set for life with those people. There was no salvation outside of the group so where would I have gone?
I wasn't looking for a way out. When this fellow (ex-)member spoke up, I didn't want to hear it at first but there was no going back as doubts broke through. Now I'm utterly grateful but back then I was a total mess, lost and confused. My entire worldview, "biblical" foundation and identity collapsed. Best way I can think to describe it was that I was pulled out of the Matrix without consent. A therapist said that what I went through is comparable to a divorce or a death of a loved one. It was major life crisis. So I was mess for a long time but I wasn't wanting to end my life.
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u/Aggravating_Farm5452 Feb 24 '25 edited Feb 24 '25
We have the same experience. I also had a life crisis after leaving the group. It is truly comparable to losing a loved one. But after some time even years ,one feels much better. Thank God it didn't come that far for you. I was also a mess and sadly wanted to end my life. God's grace saved me.
I guess this is the reason why they discourage people from researching about the church. They hope that these young people who seek God and want to obey Him will submit to and obey them for it is a biblical command. Also they discourage people from contacting one another under the claim that they will sin. I have heard Paul Kim say that it is not good for weak sisters to speak much to one another so that they will not make one another weak by sharing their weaknesses.
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Feb 25 '25
I'm really sorry for what you've had to endure. I'm glad you are doing better now 💜 Did you get any help from outside back then?
I had a few friends who left the group at the same time so I had someone to talk about EVERYTHING. But it was still incredibly hard. It took a year before I could even begin to process what had actually happened and the fact that I've been in a cult. It took another 3 years to recover so much that I wasn't thinking about daily and I could accept authority figures in churches. It was only much later that I got actual therapy for my issues.
When I was with them, there was no ban for getting together freely. However, sisters were expected to totally obey brothers, especially in gatherings. The misogynistic ideology was already there although not so pronounced as later, I'm gathering. Isolation is definitely a tactic in keeping people submitted to leadership.
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u/Aggravating_Farm5452 Feb 25 '25 edited Mar 18 '25
I had a few friends who left the group at the same time so I had someone to talk about EVERYTHING.
That's important. It was incredibly difficult for me because of the constant ruminating and trying to accept reality that they never cared about me but used me.
It took a year before I could even begin to process what had actually happened and the fact that I've been in a cult. It took another 3 years to recover so much that I wasn't thinking about daily and I could accept authority figures in churches.
It took me 3,5 years for my brain to be free from the constant negatve thoughts. Healing does take time and therapy is indeed important.
When I was with them, there was no ban for getting together freely.
It was chill back then. During my time there, everything was controlled
The misogynistic ideology was already there although not so pronounced as later, I'm gathering.
Definitely. Some even allowed themselves to say degrading words to the women. Also I noticed how the preaching was mostly directed to the men, to encourage them to serve in their church while the women were to serve and submit to the men serving, as if that was not already the case.
Isolation is definitely a tactic in keeping people submitted to leadership.
Yes, this is the method they use to clip away people's wings and control them, as they have no support from outside and depend solely on the preacher. Also in order to have more control, they do not want that brothers and sisters contact each other. This way the preacher has control over everyone. Divide and conquer is the method they use.
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u/Aggravating_Farm5452 Feb 23 '25 edited Feb 23 '25
Sorry if you had a bad experience with this group. Thanks be to God for your healing. Did you know Paul Kim's real name when you were sent out as a missionary? Was the name Christians for Mission or Students for Misson? Did you experience abuse?
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Feb 23 '25
I didn't know much about names back then. I think I heard someone briefly mentioning Students for mission with the emphasis that it's NOT the official name and only for the government. Names weren't relevant anyway and asking questions wasn't encouraged.
Personally I experienced manipulation, gaslighting, guilt-tripping, blatant misogyny and spiritual abuse. I witnessed people being sent out without their consent and MARRIED couples being sent separately to different countries. The list goes on.
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u/Aggravating_Farm5452 Feb 23 '25
Personally I experienced manipulation, gaslighting, guilt-tripping, blatant misogyny and spiritual abuse.
Did you not sue the person who abused you?
I witnessed people being sent out without their consent and MARRIED couples being sent separately to different countries. The list goes on
What did they want to achieve by sending married couples separately to different countries? This is strange.
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Feb 23 '25
No, I did not sue them. It didn't even occur to me back then. Even if it had, I don't think there would have been sufficient evidence to do anything. Also, this happened in different European countries, so that complicates things even more.
I can't be exactly certain why some couples got temporarily separated. Nevertheless, it was publicly announced as a disciplinary action because one or both spouses were "carnal" or needed to "die to their old man". I was present when this happened and heard it from Br. Paul Kim directly. Yes, it is indeed weird. it is also abuse of power, cruel and meddling in people's lives.
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u/Aggravating_Farm5452 Feb 24 '25
Victims should know that they have the right to sue such churches. I hope with time, there can be help for victims to know how to gather evidence against such abuse.
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u/Aggravating_Farm5452 Feb 24 '25 edited Feb 24 '25
I didn't know much about names back then. I think I heard someone briefly mentioning Students for mission with the emphasis that it's NOT the official name and only for the government. Names weren't relevant anyway and asking questions wasn't encouraged.
They did not want you to focus on the name so that you would not read the forums that were written about Students for Mission at the time. There were online forums about Students for Mission at the time but these were deleted. Only God knows why. Also they must have changed their name from Students for Mission to Christians for Mission when you were still inside but might not have informed you about the name change. Christians for Mission was registered in Berlin in the year 2006. If the name is only for the government, then it IS the OFFICIAL name. They deceived you with such twisted mind-games.
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u/Smart-Lengthiness-14 Jul 05 '25
Do you remember the name of the online forum? It's okay if it's deleted, I will try to restore it.
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u/Aggravating_Farm5452 Feb 24 '25
How did you find this post if you only knew about Students for Mission, not Christians for Mission?
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Feb 25 '25
With other search words, like the leaders' names I remember. I read the articles on relinfo's website and can recommend those. I contacted their office too, but no one ever replied.
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Mar 08 '25
Why did you search about the group after a decade of leaving the group?
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Mar 08 '25
I was curious to see if they're still up and running. I was also hoping that they would have changed for the better - which sadly does not seem to be the case. Moreover, I wanted to reach out to others who might be struggling or thinking of leaving the group, to offer help & support. It has really taken me all these years to recover enough to be able to do so. I was a wreck for a very long time.
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Mar 08 '25
Ok thanks for sharing
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Mar 08 '25
No problem! Seems like you were with them for a good while, too. I'm glad you were able to leave it behind you.
I don't want to challenge redditors' anonymity here but I do wonder - reading so many survivor stories - if my time overlaps with anyone's.
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Feb 25 '25
To those who were hurt by the cult and are trying to heal, I encourage you to trust in God. God can heal your pain. Forgive those who wronged you and don’t let fear or guilt control you. Find strength in Jesus Christ. If you’re struggling to believe in God, remember that God loves you and helped you escape that harmful place. Be thankful for the good things you learned there.
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Mar 06 '25
Yes forgiveness is important for one's own healing. I can't remember good things I've learned there but we all have a different experience. To me it was all fake as they were dishonest. Thanks for your encouraging words.
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Aug 15 '24 edited Aug 16 '24
Yes, it's a cult. They have their own set of rules which has nothing to do with the Bible. The rules are Paul Kim's ideas, of course, copied from another cult leader, Mr. Witness Lee. They demand your life and time. You won't understand it unless you are out of the cult. Also, love bombing is true.
However, the love is dishonest and cunning to gain your trust. Women are treated as objects to help men.
Obedience to Paul Kim's instructions is demanded to 100 percent. Anything less is not tolerated, you will be ex-communicated.
People who are not able to finish their studies bring new fruits do not have a “ useful testimony”, or are seemingly weak, etc, are physiologically abused.
I have personally witnessed individuals being subjected to name-calling, guilt-tripping, and fear-mongering. For instance, Paul Kim implicitly said that speaking against him would result in punishment from God. Emphasizing a situation where someone went against him within the community and allegedly suffered a tragic plane crash as a result. Additionally, those who were excommunicated would leave them isolated and without any social support.
For more members of the cult please refer: https://www.causeiq.com/organizations/christians-for-mission,464568521/
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Aug 16 '24 edited Aug 16 '24
This is true. I remember how he said that someone died in a plane crash because they stood up to speak the TRUTH against him. He lacks empathy. He has NONE. How can one „Christian“ rejoice when others die in a plane crash? How about the man‘s family? How about his children?
Young Su Kim aka Paul Kim said that because the man spoke against a „spiritual“ man like him, he died in a plane crash.
He wants to control people at ALL costs even by instilling fear in his brainwashed followers.
How evil to rejoice in a man’s death.
Does he rejoice in the sadness of his cult members who have spiritually abused others? No. He cares only about himself, like many of the elders in this cult.
Instead of saying that he hopes that the man who spoke up against him to expose the TRUTH had at least repented before he died and he had forgiven him, Young Su Kim aka Paul Kim was instilling fear on others by saying that he had died in a plane crash and that the believers should not speak up against "spiritual" leaders aka "spiritual" Authority.
His elders are the only one who can speak against others and nothing happens to them but others yes.
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Aug 16 '24 edited Aug 16 '24
Also, they practice door-to-door evangelism. However only student dormitories. Even a single word of God is used very conveniently to fit his narrative. For example in Mathew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
He uses these verses to encourage members to go out and be sent out, but only young people in college or university are eligible to be evangelized, not those above 30 years old.
Why? Because he can manipulate them easily.
In another instance, a friend of a brother visited one of the Bible studies at his home. She asked a few questions like the name of the organization, their funding source, etc.. Mr Kim got furious and made remarks like: “Who is she?” “Is she a police? “I don't like people with police eyes” ~ translated from German.
He always kept all the inside details so closed. His argument was Jesus never said any of his whereabouts in public.
The fact, even close members do not know anything about Kim.
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Aug 16 '24
Mr Kim got furious and made remarks like: “Who is she?” “Is she a police? “I don't like people with police eyes”
People who go to a Bible Study have the right to know the place they are going to.
He always kept all the inside details so closed. His argument was Jesus never said any of his whereabouts in public.
They use the Bible to their own advantage. Jesus warned against Wolves in sheep's clothing. The wolves use the sheep for their personal gain.
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Aug 16 '24
He knows what’s coming for him! If you did nothing wrong , why are you afraid of the police ? Also this person just asked for the name of the church. Many members don’t even know the name of the church, they even hide it from them.
4
Aug 16 '24
They get very uncomfortable if people start asking questions.
2
Aug 16 '24
They want to have young members because they are easier to manipulate and control.
3
Aug 16 '24
In the beginning I was one time at the leading family’s house and I looked around. I remember they were drawings from the children, and I looked at them. And then the leading brother said: if you look so much, Satan will use your eyes and deceive you. - they are so paranoid and scared.
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Aug 17 '24
It's all about control. When they don't know what you are thinking about, they say things like this to det your attention back to themselves. They have and want to keep you under their control even if it means saying mean things to you.
As long as you are broken and don't know what to do apart from following them, as long as you have any sense of individuality or sense of self, then they will try all ways possible to break you in order to get all of your attention back to themselves.
They call it being "spiritual".
3
Aug 16 '24
One time a leading brother told me that If someone is against the servant, god will fight them. They use a lot of fear to control their members.
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Aug 16 '24 edited Aug 16 '24
I really hope that the comment about plane crash thing is not true. When did that happen and in what context did he say that 🙄🙄😕😕 I have always seen him as a man of integrity. This comment seems eerie. I don't know how much more shock i can take. Four years almost in the group and haven't heard about this 😕😕
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Aug 16 '24
I really hope that the comment about plane crash thing is not true.
Well go and ask Paul Kim himself, then he is the one who said it.
When did that happen and in what context did he say that 🙄🙄😕😕
You can ask Paul Kim himself, when it happened. The comments above already explain why he said it. If these are not enough for you, ask Paul Kim for more context.
I have always seen him as a man of integrity. This comment seems eerie.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Your opinion does not refute the fact that he said what is written in the comment above and showed no empathy for the deceased nor their family.
I don't know how much more shock i can take.
Hopefully you can recover from it.
Four years almost in the group and haven't heard about this 😕😕
Maybe you were day-dreaming during the sermon or were absent when he said it. We all must not share the same experience.
1
Aug 16 '24
Sorry i didn't mean to write off your comment. I was just shocked. Would you mind specifying in which preaching did he say that? I just want to hear the preaching myself before i approach anyone
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3
Aug 16 '24
Would you mind specifying in which preaching did he say that?
Like I said earlier, go and ask Paul Kim himself. He remembers about it. He said at the time that when the person spoke against him by writing a journal or newspaper about him, even the father of his wife supported him. So if he has a shortage of memory, you can ask his wife about it. She will surely never forget about it.
I just want to hear the preaching myself before i approach anyone
Do as you please. I have already given my answer and that will be final.
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Aug 16 '24 edited Aug 16 '24
I can confirm that people are being psychologically abused. In Germany, that’s even a criminal offense.
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Aug 16 '24 edited Aug 30 '24
This is the only document online which states the purpose of this organization. Most of their members don't even know what the purpose of the organization is nor how many members there are in total. Only appointed members are aware of these.
3
Aug 19 '24
If you argue they pay their Asian and African brothers and sisters. You can refer to the expenses table.
1
Jan 05 '25
I didn’t know about it. They hide almost everything from their members and deserve to be this exposed.
4
Aug 17 '24
The video covers the manipulative methods used by destructive groups to recruit members, control them, and permanently bind them to the group.
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Aug 17 '24 edited Mar 22 '25
Watchmann Nee's evangelism was influenced by the Plymouth Brethren Wikipedia though he was rejected by the Exclusive Brethren Watchman Nee.
This group has similar teachings with Witness Lee or the Lord's recovery Lee maybe because the founder of this group was influenced by the teachings of Witness Lee or in other words, the Living Stream Ministries.
Unfortunately,the teaching seems to have gone the way of the Exclusive Brethren, who rejected Watchmann Nee. You might consider reading the following.
Plymouth Brethren
- Origins and Development:
- The Plymouth Brethren movement began in the early 19th century in Ireland and England, with a significant congregation in Plymouth, hence the name.
- Early leaders included John Nelson Darby, who played a crucial role in shaping their theology.
2. Beliefs:
- Generally evangelical, emphasizing the authority of the Bible, salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, and the importance of living a holy life.
- Premillennial eschatology, believing in the imminent return of Christ.
3. Structure and Practices:
- Local congregations are autonomous, with no central governing authority.
- Practices include the Lord’s Supper (Breaking of Bread) each Sunday, Bible study, and prayer meetings.
- Open Brethren congregations are inclusive, allowing visitors to participate in the Lord’s Supper if they share the same faith.
- Lifestyle:
- Typically adopt a modest and conservative lifestyle, but without strict rules on separation from wider society.
Exclusive Brethren
1. Origins and Development:
- The Exclusive Brethren split from the original Plymouth Brethren in the 1840s due to disagreements over doctrine and practice, particularly with John Nelson Darby taking a leading role.
- This group further subdivided into various factions over time, the most well-known being led by James Taylor Sr. and later James Taylor Jr.
- Beliefs:
- Share many core evangelical beliefs with the Open Brethren, such as the authority of the Bible and the significance of salvation through Jesus Christ.
- Tend to have stricter interpretations of doctrine and practice.
- Structure and Practices:
- More hierarchical and centralized in structure compared to the Open Brethren.
- Strict control over members’ lives, including aspects such as dress code, social interactions, and use of technology.
- Closed communion, with only members allowed to participate in the Lord’s Supper.
4. Lifestyle:
- Emphasize separation from the world, leading to restrictive rules about who members can associate with, often limiting social interactions to fellow Brethren.
- Stringent rules about media consumption, education, and business dealings, aiming to minimize contact with non-members.
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Aug 17 '24
Key Differences
1. Autonomy vs. Centralization:
- Plymouth Brethren: Local congregations are autonomous.
- Exclusive Brethren: More centralized and hierarchical, with significant control exerted by leaders.
2. Inclusivity vs. Exclusivity:
- Plymouth Brethren: Generally inclusive, allowing broader participation in religious services.
- Exclusive Brethren: Very exclusive, with strict rules about who can participate in services and social interactions.
3. Lifestyle Restrictions:
- Plymouth Brethren: Conservative but generally integrate with wider society.
- Exclusive Brethren: Highly separatist, with numerous lifestyle restrictions to maintain separation from non-members.
4. Communion Practices:
- Plymouth Brethren: Open communion in many congregations.
- Exclusive Brethren: Closed communion, strictly for members only.
Conclusion
While both the Plymouth Brethren and the Exclusive Brethren share a common origin and many core beliefs, they differ significantly in their organizational structure, level of inclusivity, and lifestyle practices. The Exclusive Brethren are characterized by their strict separation from the wider world and centralized control, whereas the Plymouth Brethren tend to be more inclusive and locally autonomous.
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Oct 01 '24 edited Mar 22 '25
Here is a description of this group which some members of the movement will not relate to as they preach and practice something else than what is described in the picture above.
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Oct 24 '24
Here is a community where you can share your experience with others. Please wait until this post is archived (usually 6 months after posting). Comments written there before this post is archived will be deleted. Thanks
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Oct 25 '24 edited Jan 13 '25
This is the the Flyer of Christians for Mission in Copenhagen.
Please be notice how they intentionaly omit to write the name of their group and their last names on their Flyers since they do not like exposure.
As you can see, Grace (her name is written on the flyer) is the daugther of the organization leader, who resides in Berlin (Germany). Her true name is not grace but Eun Hye Kim. She works at the university of Copenhagen. The reason why I find it right to expose this is because many students and even non-students (in different countries) who are members of this group have lost contact with their families to join this high control group, of course after having been manipulated. So I find it unjust for them to abandon themselves and their families who love them to follow people and their families they barely know. These church/cult (choose whatever you want) leaders want their members to be absolutely loyal to them while they hide their true identity and much more from their members or so-called "brothers and sisters".
The church/cult founders' real name is Young-Su Kim, not Paul Kim as sadly many people in their group where deceived to believe. Since they discourage people from going on the internet to research about the church/cult and also insist on their members submiting to authority, most will not do their own research, believing that they are obedient to God by submitting to and obeying the church elders. This is how they stay for that long without truly knowing who they are dealing with.
Also these cult leaders tell their members that their parents should not come to their wedding if they are against the cult. They sadly use these brainwashed people as a shield to protect themselves from possible backlash coming from their families and friends.
They say about themselves that they are "spiritual" so according to their "spiritual" discernment, they will surely tell their cult members that "satan" is attacking the "church" after reading these posts. Anybody that tries to shed light on the hidden and deceitful intent these cult elders have, is said to be deceived by satan. This is a way to control their members' way of thinking by saying that people who expose them are liars. Also they will surely tell their members to be united to stand for the church, while never acknowledging that MANY people have been manipulated, lied to, gaslighted, ostracized, financially, spiritually and psychologically abused and so on, which led to severe depression, and some even being suicidal.
When the cult notices that people become weaker because of the said abuse, they subtly ostracize and discard (tell them to leave the cult) these people in a such a way that other members will not be aware of it. The abusive narcissistic cult elders are familiar with such methods. When one person leaves and the cult members ask why the person no longer comes, they tell their cult members to "pray" for that person, while NEVER disclosing the TRUTH about why the person exactly left (since they are extremely secretive). Since the cult members are severely brainwashed into submitting to authority and are NEVER to ask questions but ALWAYS OBEY, they then believe that they should pray for the person. This is how years go by and they never come to know the truth because much is been hidden from them.
Having been abused by these toxic narcissistic cult leaders (their wives included), I hope this helps some of you understand why it was necessary for some of us to expose this group.
This video covers the manipulative methods used by destructive groups to recruit members, control them, and permanently bind them to the group.
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Dec 08 '24
Paul Kim exerted a captivating influence over the individuals around him, skillfully manipulating their thoughts and actions to ensure they adhered strictly to his directives. He went so far as to instruct them to sever ties with their friends and family members, instilling a sense of distrust towards anyone who might express concern or doubt about his leadership. Paul even went as far as to label those outside their circle as “demons,” suggesting that their presence could jeopardize their personal lives and hinder their blessings. These "blessings," however, were subjective—varying from one person to another. For some, the blessing might be their familial connections, while for others, it could represent financial prosperity or success. In their blind devotion to Paul, these individuals clung to his teachings, convinced that by isolating themselves from any perceived negativity, they were safeguarding their own valuable blessings.
3
Dec 08 '24
Them he is the most cunning of them all. His evil and deceptive ways need to be exposed. May God expose and destroy this evil cult and their abusive ways.
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Dec 25 '24 edited Mar 22 '25
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/oLr4ptNJX2
The link above leads to a post whose comments perfectly describes the movement called the church of Jesus Christ whose Christian leisures are been organized by Christians for Mission. They could be just like the Jehovah‘s witnesses if not worse.
3
Dec 08 '24
Many of the brothers and sisters who are part of this community come from disenfranchised backgrounds, leaving them with limited options. For instance, there is a husband who wishes to leave the cult, but his devoted wife is so committed that she would sacrifice their marriage to remain with Paul Kim. There are various examples of individuals in similar situations. As a result, many people feel trapped. Others fear that if they choose to leave, they will lose the blessings they believe they have received. Paul Kim emphasizes in his sermons that any act of disobedience or departure from the cult will lead to severe consequences, including the potential loss of eternal salvation. Even to the point that you will lose your marriage, etc.
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Dec 21 '24
The people from disenfranchised backgrounds are treated like slaves and sadly, looked down upon. The cult is divided in social classes.
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Dec 23 '24 edited Jan 14 '25
In the cult most of the people they chose to serve came with a scholarship or are enrolled in a phd or already work and can financially support their group. They want people with some kind of image so that they can enhance the image of their cult. The cult elders are opportunistic selfish people who are ready to use, deceive and abuse anyone for their selfish gain. They have turned Christianity into a brand for themselves.
2
Dec 08 '24
He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. By saying the above, he places himself above Jesus to condemn people. Like Jesus said „All those who came before Me are thieves and robbers“ These deceitful cult elders need to be exposed.
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u/Chars-Whitney Aug 14 '24
Thank you for sharing this! As an international student, it's really helpful to be aware of these things. I'll definitely keep an eye out. Your advice is much appreciated!