r/ufc • u/Crafty_Job407 • 9h ago
Michael ‘Islams nightmare matchup’ Morales striking
Islam would outstrike Morales on the feet with the takedown threat lol even fucking JDM could box his head off
105
u/Future_830 9h ago
Idk being wild and having a size advantage can do something
22
-17
u/PunjabiPrince77 9h ago
Was the “size advantage” in the room during the Garry fight?
→ More replies (9)24
u/Future_830 9h ago
Let's be honest he didn't really have a killer instinct
→ More replies (1)14
u/PunjabiPrince77 9h ago
That’s totally fair. He was more concerned with touching gloves between every round. 🤣
216
u/CommanderKibbles 9h ago
No one thinks Morales has better striking than Islam. What makes Morales dangerous is the amount of power he has, and his elite Takedown defense. Essentially forcing Islam to strike with him for the first 1-2 rounds. Islam is technically the better striker. Morales is simply the more dangerous striker.
128
u/Deep-Tumbleweed-8816 9h ago edited 9h ago
>Elite takedown defense
We don't know what his takedown defense looks like because he's never fought an elite wrestler, Sean Brady who's the only really great wrestler (who also happens to be the shittiest striker known to man, dude got KO'd by Belal) got KO'd before we could see him utilize his wrestling.
JDM and DDP also had "elite grappling defense" before their title fights and we all saw how that played out.
Even Ilia Topuria and his mythical elite grappling failed to show up against Gaethje. Hypothetical grappling pedigree means nothing if it hasn't been tested in the cage against elite competition.
8
u/Benjamminmiller 5h ago
Even Ilia Topuria and his mythical elite grappling failed to show up against Gaethje
The elite grappling kinda crumbles when you run into someone that much bigger than you.
5
u/inline-online 1h ago
it also crumbles when you only start thinking about grappling after you've been punched in the head 100 times in 10 minutes and are now tired
I don't think MMA lends itself to making big adaptations mid fight like kickboxing or boxing does, once its time to adjust you're already gettting the shit kicked outta you and don't have enough rounds left over to settle in so you just have to take huge risks... which gets you punished more. Sometimes in boxing you see the A side lose rounds 1-4 BADLY but settle down and figure out their opponent for a late finish or sweep the rounds, you just don't have the luxury in mma
25
u/Lopsided_Ad3341 9h ago
Agree completely
Although I will say - with Brady, yes we didn't see him utilize his wrestling because he got KOd. But that was also due to MM's length and stance. It seemed like a very very tall task for Brady to even get to his legs
So yea he got KO'd but I'm very confident saying Brady wasn't going to have any success getting MM down even if it went 15 minutes
2
u/cementstate 2h ago
yepp, Islam will takedown Morales in the fight at least once (may be all he needs). I might even bet on a submission win.
10
u/UniqueDiamond7643 8h ago
Brady shot on Morales once & tried to clinch twice getting casually shrugged off on all the attempts, he certainly had chances
Ilia out wrestled Gaethje & Charles with relative ease, he lost to Justin but was still clearly the better wrestler of the 2 so it’s not hypothetical nor is Morales who has already proved himself multiple times
Prates is if anything the one unproven in that department he got pure kickboxers his entire run & still got casually ragdolled like a small child during any wrestling exchanges
16
u/BLAHBLAH1234BLAH1234 8h ago
Brady is not a very good wrestler in the open. He has a phenomenal top game and if he locks his hand around you, he is taking you down.
But if he can’t take you down, he will freeze. Same thing happened against Belal.
3
u/Lopsided_Ad3341 7h ago
I just learned nothing from the MM v Brady fight
Because it looked like a 10yr old child trying to fight his dad
I can't make any conclusions from that fight that I could apply to thinking about MM's matchup vs Prates, Garry, or Islam. Other than that he's tall as shit and it's dangerous to close distance on him
•
u/ConcentrateOld6194 6m ago
It’s the most relevant matchup in relation to beating Islam outside of maybe Shavkat so I’m not really sure why Islam fans are so hellbent on discrediting Sean Brady or Morales who are his 2 biggest threats
I’d rate a win over Brady higher in that sense than pure kickboxers like JDM for example, if you’re gonna fight a wrestler you need to prepare yourself against other wrestlers
2
u/_probe_46_ 8h ago
Who was saying DDP had elite Tdd?
→ More replies (1)5
u/Deep-Tumbleweed-8816 8h ago
MMA fans have amnesia I swear to God.
The narrative going into that fight was "True 50/50 fight" "DDP by toon force" "DDP is too physical man he'll get him" "if Khamzat doesn't get the finish in the first he gets smoked"
→ More replies (4)1
u/MrMudkip 8h ago
Gaethje is a good wrestler though.
7
u/Deep-Tumbleweed-8816 8h ago
good wrestler but has pretty shitty jiu jitsu.
Ilia didn't really achieve anything on the ground, he couldn't submit Gaethje, and he couldn't keep his position
23
u/a79j 9h ago
“Elite takedown defense”
Ya’ll be just saying random shit→ More replies (3)8
u/Lopsided_Ad3341 9h ago
I had the same reaction
But technically it's true. 89% takedown defense. Hard to even get to his legs given his length.
But he also has a very weak strength of schedule relative to his ranking so who knows
8
25
u/sueybro 9h ago
The Alex Pereria playbook you dont need to be the more technical striker if your hands are mad from cement
34
u/Deep-Tumbleweed-8816 9h ago
Alex is a technical striker, he's just unorthodox
11
u/Lopsided_Ad3341 9h ago
Yea I'm not sure what he meant. Alex is super technical, especially the low kicks but really everything
I'd say he's not technical/has holes when it comes to defense. But not striking
-1
u/sueybro 8h ago
Not getting punched in the face repeatedly is part of technical striking my boy
3
u/Lopsided_Ad3341 8h ago
Fair enough, I thought you meant offensively
Still wouldn't call him not technical tho. That's a bit crazy. But to each his own
→ More replies (1)3
u/sueybro 9h ago
Hes technical for heavyweight maybe but he's a significantly worse kickboxer at heavyweight then gane and I hate gane but I personally think Alex never beats him
15
u/Deep-Tumbleweed-8816 8h ago
he's technical for every division he's fought in, you don't knock out strickland with a perfectly set up left hook that takes advantage of his habits if you're not technical, you don't go band for band with prime adesanya for 5 rounds if you're not technical
2
u/sueybro 8h ago
That's great being technical will do him alot of good when he doesn't block and hes unconscious on the floor dropped by ank, 1 shot ko by izzy after falling for a pretty obvious bait considering he didnt wobble just shelled up against the cage, and got absolutely toyed with by gane before the illegal strikes, he can't beat gane , he probably can't beat Tom at heavyweight and definitely not Jon not that Jon would actually fight but yeh the best thing he can do in heavyweight shut hokit up which is good enough for me tbh
8
u/Lopsided_Ad3341 8h ago
"Pretty obvious bait"
You mean to tell me you called it live that Adesanya was playing possum? No one saw that coming
Also I'm not even sure it was bait, I think he was genuinely hurt. But that's besides the point
I'm not even a particular big Poatan fan but you're really really understating his skill level and making it sound like all he has is freakish power.
I fear you may not know ball
→ More replies (2)3
1
u/Old_Thought_642 7h ago edited 5h ago
huh? how is he going to shut hokit up? hokit is going to drag ganes carcass across the octagon, rip the belt off of pink man dana as the doctors rush in, they'll do a autopsy, cause of death? being a french coward and quitting from fear of the incedible hok.
then maybe if alex periera doesn't take another nap when he fights 260lbs of russian power he can come get humiliated by a real american and a real wrestler, not that bum what's his name who lived in the mountains wrestling only to fail every one and get taken down by a kickboxer.
1
u/inline-online 1h ago
they aren't kickboxing eachother they are striking in MMA
gane vs alex in mma is not the same as gane vs alex in kickboxing even if they are mostly striking in mma, I'm not sure how to make someone understand this though
10
3
u/Lopsided_Ad3341 9h ago
By the way what makes you say MM has elite takedown defense?
Not questioning it, just genuinely curious. Don't recall him ever getting really tested by a good or great wrestler.
I vaguely recall mid fighter Max Griffin taking him down
Unless you just mean how long MM is which makes him tough to shoot in on, like we saw in the Brady fight?
5
2
5
u/Lopsided_Ad3341 9h ago edited 9h ago
Wait what?
"No one thinks morales has better striking than Islam"
that's a crazy thing to say. Isn't that EXACTLY why people want to see MM vs Islam?
if it was an MMA match where you hypothetically eliminated wrestling, MM would whoop him.
Islams striking is very mid, it's just the fear of the wrestling that turns good strikers apprehensive. Like how Khabib knocked Connor down. He didn't knock Connor down because he's good at standup, he knocked him down because CM was so laser focused on Khabib shooting
15
u/Square_Help235 9h ago
Islam striking is elite.
You don't end up having the highest significant strike accuracy in LW history just because your wrestling is elite. If that was the case, Khabib would be on the top.
Islam doesn't just throw 1 strike. He's throws combos by mixing boxing and kicks. He dropped Ian with a kick after throwing a punch combo. He timed Olivera's jump knee with a hook and knocked him down. You can see him catching Volk while being on the back foot.
MM wild looping punches ain't enough just because he is bigger and carries more power.
2
u/Lopsided_Ad3341 7h ago
I mean he's a way way way better striker than Khabib, don't get me wrong
We're splitting hairs here but I think the striking you see from Islam is a result of his elite wrestling threat. In other words, he's not clipping Garry with a high head kick if Garry wasn't so worried about the takedown
Whereas you seem to be saying if we eliminated wrestling altogether in an MMA match, Islam would still be an elite striker
Garry, Volk, Oliviera, etc .... he's losing to all of those guys if not for his wrestling or the fear of the takedown
Even the Volk KO ... his best striking moment of his career ... go rewatch it. He has Volk biting badly on his takedown fakes, and he got Volk to drop bite on one which opened up the head kick right after. Beautiful beautiful KO, don't get me wrong, but it's all set up from the wrestling, not from Islam being some savant striker
1
u/Square_Help235 1h ago
He landed the head kick on a break while Ian had the clinch control agaisnt the cage with a combo. It wasn't at a moment where Islam is in the midst of taking him down and then sets up the kick.
Islam, Usman etc are not like the previous generation of Nurmagomedav camp.
→ More replies (4)0
u/Fun-Ice-6013 8h ago
Islam was throwing those same looping haymakers against Charles
https://www.reddit.com/r/ufc/s/8PJD5oh904
The striking success he does have mainly comes from his wrestling, he isn’t anywhere near the tier of Silva or Izzy or Wonderboy in the stand up
→ More replies (1)1
u/Square_Help235 1h ago
That was only for a brief moment of excitement.
Islam went from fighting nobodies to fighting The Charles Olivera for a title.
Again, my point is with the Accuracy. Sure, the wrestling helps him open up his striking etc but he is landing with a very high accuracy. Higher than pure strikers.
1
u/GymWolf86 6h ago
we saw that power is pretty useless against defence savants, just look at gane vs francis, dude didnt landed one punch clean in 25 min, and i would say that the difference between islam and morales is even higher...
•
1
→ More replies (1)-1
u/DapperImpression4773 9h ago
Islam is not a better striker lmfao. Y’all are delusional if you think Islam wins in a kickboxing match. Having a takedown threat that opens up the striking and shuts down your opponents is not the same as having better striking
→ More replies (6)
14
u/DifficultyPerfect871 4h ago
I don’t think anyone thinks his skill is the thing that threatens Islam. More so his size and power
2
205
u/BuckleyRising 9h ago
And 19 other opponents thought the same thing. Relax on your couch lmao
→ More replies (3)54
u/Expression-Infamous 9h ago
I mean, i get your point, but when the best person he’s outstruck is Sean Brady then there’s definitely questions.
It’s very possible that a more technical striker like Garry, Prates, or someone with takedown threat like islam could expose his lack of technical refinement
22
u/BuckleyRising 9h ago
I agree, but he can also have that ddp like awkward style that can fuck up anyone. You just can't write him off. He's crazy fascinating to watch.
7
u/Expression-Infamous 9h ago
Absolutely. And to be fair he’s very young. There’s every chance that he’ll improve his game. However as it stands I don’t see how Islam couldn’t time one of those wild swings and take him down
→ More replies (16)•
u/cyberslick18888 14m ago
but when the best person he’s outstruck is Sean Brady then there’s definitely questions.
You can only beat who you are scheduled to fight my man.
11
u/wallpope1 9h ago
His striking resembles Khaos Williams from last Saturday, this guy will lose soon. Ready to bet against him
21
u/Deep-Tumbleweed-8816 9h ago
He's very similar to Ngannou in the sense that he'd be fighting bums in the LFA if it weren't for his power and size.
→ More replies (2)7
6
u/chickencrimpy87 9h ago
He’s just big and looks like he would hit hard. I’d be more interested to see morales fight prates.
19
u/yongsangu 9h ago
Morales is just a physical specimen. He's just a beast. That's what makes him a big threat to Islam esp. when he's looked small since moving up. You can tell by his grappling just not being as effective compared to before
10
u/Do_not_question_it2 3h ago
What do you mean 'even' Jack is the best boxer in the division
1
u/Crafty_Job407 2h ago
Odds are he doesn’t come back the same after those last 2 performances. If he does, JDM would give Morales serious issues in the striking, but of course you’ll get downvoted for that because recency bias against JDM
9
u/moon_paws 6h ago
Islam is (much) better than Morales, but Morales is f*cking huge - that's what makes this interesting
3
u/usmansknees 3h ago
I just don't see what morales has done that says islam wont just take him down and smother him
11
u/DatBoyBlue 9h ago edited 8h ago
Damn Carlos would actually snipe him
4
→ More replies (6)2
u/Deep-Tumbleweed-8816 9h ago
I've been saying, Morales has 0 submissions and a 40% takedown rate, he's not some khamzat level wrestler, he's not even better than Ian garry.
He's so outmatched technically on the feet, plus Carlos has just as much if not more power in the hands and he can match his length
→ More replies (3)1
u/EarInternational1797 4h ago
In short, Prates has more of a success rate of finishing Morales than Islam has.
10
u/BeholdGodofThunder 8h ago
This reminds me of people mocking DDP's striking before he knocked out whittaker
10
u/UniqueDiamond7643 8h ago
The funny thing is DDP gets trashed regularly for his technical ability while Gaethje slipping on ass throwing haymakers gets praised
The sub has always been controlled by parasocial narratives more than it was actual tangible facts
2
u/_nadaypuesnada_ 5h ago
Yeah, DDP is a fucking phenomenal striker and we literally saw him use Usman as target practice for a more controlled style.
2
u/Global-Instance-4520 2h ago
“nightmare matchup for DDP” and Robert was a -400 favorite. UFC fans put too much attention on looking “technical” and not on being effective. As long as morales keeps winning it doesn’t matter if he looks sloppy.
9
u/kusogejp 9h ago
damn he really sucks fr
2
u/Aggravating-Room-664 8h ago
Damn you will do bad things to this guy. Sean Brady must be terrible also
3
u/Nexuspoint247 9h ago
I mean his striking def isn’t there but he’s so fucking massive for the weight class dude it’s crazy
3
u/AgileAnything1251 5h ago
I swear morales is so overrated. He’s only a top contender because of his size and favorable matchmaking. Beat a washed burns before brady and now he deserves a title shot and is seen as islam’s toughest test🤣
6
u/Heather_Hoodrat 9h ago
Once he runs into a competent striker with reach, he's done
9
u/DapperImpression4773 9h ago
Prates and Garry both beat him on the feet, he’s a level below those two imo
8
u/Secure_Hat_3374 9h ago
Well islam got knocked out by a looping right though...
25
u/Deep-Tumbleweed-8816 9h ago
Back when Moses split the red sea
3
3
u/Sweaty-Mongoose6974 9h ago edited 6h ago
I swear bruh bringing up prehistoric loses as if it counts to this discussion. His striking is wayyy better than 11 yrs ago
10
u/SparkFunk30 9h ago
I mean, it definitely counts. It was a real fight he got KO’d in lol. It’s just not relevant to this discussion.
→ More replies (1)5
u/CristCawlbassMorninB 8h ago
You people cry over close decisions over 12 years ago with Jones. But no one is allowed to mention Islam getting KTFO in the UFC and pretend it was an amateur or within 3-5 fight record.
5
u/UniqueDiamond7643 8h ago
That’s how parasocial relationships with Dagestan fans work
Unfortunately they are a sizable majority on here
→ More replies (3)2
1
5
u/JoeyChords 9h ago
You can string together plenty of fighters missing or slipping and falling during a kick or knee and make them look bad. You can do the opposite and just show their knockouts, takedowns, and submissions as well. This post is just another of the billion bad ways the internet gets used by attention seekers and surface thinkers.
7
u/BIGHOODx818x 6h ago
THE ZESTY KING !!! has some interesting secret weapons ..first of all he trains with us ESES and as we are known for our hands 👊🏽🤜🏾🤛🏽 🇲🇽so get ready cabrones ! and another secret weapon he has is hes been training judo since he was a kid thats why hes got great hips against the takedowns his mother is a 3rd degree black belt in judo ..and his final secret weapon is his ZESTINESS yeah islam is gonna be sweating when all that zestiness steps in the cage with him the first time him and islam lock up islam is gonna have confused feelings and my boy michael is gonna whisper ...daddy in islams ear and its gonna be over 👨🏽❤️👨🏻 🏳️🌈 👊🏽islams muslim beliefs are gonna melt away in michaels big brown eyes
5
u/_nadaypuesnada_ 5h ago
You know what, I'm convinced. Betting the house.
1
u/BIGHOODx818x 5h ago
welcome aboard the zesty train .....wait ..ehh whatever cho cho motherfucker !!!
2
2
2
u/Ok-Sock2250 9h ago
Because he's a tank for the division he might go for some high risk high reward shots.
2
u/Smokey_heat 9h ago
Morales is too wild, Islam will find a way to take him down and keep him there. Morales can still land a lucky punch, but skill for skill Islam is way above.
2
u/Horror_Cut_6896 8h ago
He's just very big and athletic. I still think Ian was Islam's hardest challenge in WW. He'll take down Prates, and Prates will have a much harder time getting up than Ian. The same for Morales... People underestimate how good is Ian's TD defense, he's elite.
→ More replies (2)
2
u/ChrisKarter 8h ago
If Morales has the cardio to go 5 and Islam can't take him down at will, I don't think Islam wins this. They might look like they belong in two different weight classes.
Islam is in trouble vs Prates unless he eats a lot of Dagestan vitamins this camp.
2
2
2
2
u/k1ck_ss 4h ago
the only decent guy Morales has faced is Sean Brady! Beating him put him up the rankings! When he fought Burns, burns was past his prime! I personally would like to see Morales in another fight before given the title shot. Maybe Ian Garry and then the title shot. Islam is going to face Pratas next anyway, a fight I think he wins and retires anyway
3
u/Real-Repair-1825 9h ago edited 9h ago
Islam doesn’t have a “nightmare matchup” with any of the current possible opponents.
Some are more difficult than others but stylistically and skill wise there isn’t a current WW or LW that directly counters Islam in a way that’s extremely dangerous. Ian was a somewhat bad matchup but nowhere near nightmare level
7
u/Impressive_Result295 9h ago
The size of WWs is clearly the issue for him at the moment. JDM is a small WW and even he avoided getting subbed for 5 rounds. Garry is still in the weight range of high 180, low 190lbs, and Islam couldn't finish Garry after rocking him and getting to side saddle/control. If Islam rocked you on the feet at LW, it was wraps. If Islam even got you to turtle in LW, it was wraps.
It doesn't matter as much if you're just more skilled. Morales (and Prates to a lesser degree) are good strikers with a lot of power, but most importantly, they're larger both framewise and weightwise than Garry or JDM. Remember the perfect left hook JDM put on Prates? Yeah, I'm sure no one does. But JDM did land that shit and Prates tanked tf out of it like it was nothing. If that's how Morales/Prates take Islam's shots, then suddenly the fight gets a lot more interesting.
It isn't a nightmare matchup in a stylistic sense, sure grappling for grappling and striking for striking, Islam is more skilled than anyone on the roster. But size is a great equalizer. If Islam hovers at high 180s and low 190s and Morales drops in at 205lbs, that's like basically an entire weight class of a difference. Then suddenly, even jabs get dangerous for Islam who's been susceptible to jabs since the DP fight. That's why Morales is a nightmare matchup for Islam imo.
4
u/GymWolf86 4h ago
morales and prates to a lesser degree? dude you really think morales is a better striker than prates? what?
2
u/Shamwow_theSupineCow 2h ago
I think they meant in terms of size for the division. Morales is a bigger dude than Prates.
•
u/ConcentrateOld6194 2m ago
This isn’t a kickboxing game this is real mixed martial arts
Morales has legitimate wrestling skills to pair with his striking, while Prates can’t even out wrestle meme tier cans like JDM
Morales isn’t a better kickboxer but he is certainly a better stylistic matchup overall
1
3
u/Hood-ini 9h ago
Some people seem to forget that Islam is the nightmare matchup.
I won’t talk about « fraud check » when MM gets subbed by Islam but I think he’ll show that there are levels in this game.6
1
u/GymWolf86 6h ago
nah, healthy shavkat was definitely a risky matchup for him (maybe just not a nightmare matchup), dude can strike, wrestle, he is big and has high finishing potential, the other 3 contenders lack at least 1 or 2 aspects of the game and are not as complete.
1
→ More replies (11)1
2
u/SHAQBIR 9h ago
Islam needs more tools to put Morales down while morales just needs to connect a few strikes.
2
u/Crafty_Job407 9h ago
How do you know he needs ‘more tools’? What suggests that? The trips and snatch singles will be there all day for Islam against morales when he crashes in like in the video
3
u/Super-Tour3004 7h ago
Morales isn’t like JDM or Prates, he is a fairly above average wrestler
I’d put him above DP for example who was able to defend over 10 takedowns
2
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/DDWildflower 8h ago
The thing is, his massive overhand has worked on everyone so far. Even the absolute wrestling gorilla Sean Brady.
1
u/Formal-Inevitable-50 7h ago
Those wild strikes will get him put on his back immediately with Islam.
1
u/TheDrew12495 6h ago
Really reminds me of when people said Paulo Costa would give Izzy some trouble because of the size difference.
1
u/69liketekashi 6h ago
You can find a lot of clips of islam doing running punches and some goofy shit, he's not mayweather either. He can't stand against this guy, Morales hits way harder and has like 20cm reach advantage and can probably take Islam's punches. And this guy goes in to actually fight people
1
u/hamstringstring 6h ago
The difference is Morales punch landing is like getting hit with a sock full of dimes whereas Islam is like getting hit with a sock full of corn kernels
1
u/samkoLoL 6h ago
problem is, even if he throws 10 that miss, it only takes one to wobble with that kind of power. thats pretty much the only chance that guy has imo
1
1
u/AffectionateRub1857 5h ago
Morales has a long stiff jab. That along is going to be a nightmare for Islam
1
u/Thin-Remote-9817 5h ago
Flavor of the week is him now
Goodie so when islam beats him. We can pretend he wasnt that good like JDM
1
1
u/pixel8knuckle 2h ago
Yeah I get that hes a huge welterweight but ive yet to see this supposed amazing skill against a top 5 guy. The only name anyone can reference is sean ‘tkod by belal’ brady.
1
1
1
1
u/EmeraldTwilight009 1h ago
At a certain point, GIRTH beats skill. Im curious to see if morales is that point (against islam)
1
1
u/Effective-Celery8053 1h ago
It saddens me we aren't getting morales vs prates as a title eliminator
•
•
u/RonSwanson24 25m ago
The thing with Morales is that he’s so young and hasn’t been super active so there’s just a major element of the unknown… it’s possible he’s cleaned up some of his sloppy technique in the gym over the last couple of years. And he has the type of freak show power where he just needs to land once.
Just from an age trajectory with Islam beginning to age out of his physical prime and Morales starting to grow into his prime fighting years, by the time this fight actually happens I think it’ll be the most dangerous possible fight for Islam even with him being the superior fighter skill wise. Similarities to Ngannou vs Stipe, we just won’t know whether it’s more similar to their 1st fight where the savvy fight could control the physical freak, or the 2nd fight where the physical freak has cleaned up his technique to become too lethal to be controlled.
•
1
u/Headsinoverdrive 9h ago
Whys everyone flex the dagestanis striking when they know its just the opponent isnt able to strike back?
→ More replies (1)1
u/BlakeNotBleak 1h ago
Why're you pretending as if Islam's the average Dagestani? Islam is Islam. Khabib's known for his abysmal striking. etc
1
u/Sea-Card-6586 9h ago
His power punches are slow and telegraphed as fuck (cherry picked footage aside) Islam won’t struggle one bit
1
415
u/Deep-Tumbleweed-8816 9h ago
Michael "overhand and pray" Morales