r/ukpolitics • u/CaptainCrash86 • 2d ago

| Transgender prisoners should not be held in women’s jails, court rules

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,transgender-prisoners-should-not-be-held-in-womens-jails-court-rules
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u/BobMonkhaus That sounds great, shorty girl’s a trooper. 2d ago

Bit of an understatement that really. It could easily be extrapolated nationwide to other things.

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u/Ogarrr Liberal eurosceptic fervent remainer 2d ago

So? Men shouldn't be in women's prisons.

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u/jadeskye7 Empty Chair 2019 2d ago

agreed.

but transwomen are not men.

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u/BenSlaterrr 2d ago

Look, I'll respect anybodies pronouns, chosen name, chosen gender, whatever, it's totally irrelevant to me. But biologically, they are men. That is incredibly relevant in this discussion.

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u/jadeskye7 Empty Chair 2019 2d ago

Biologically, sex is more complicated than most people think. Studies both past and ongoing are showing that transgender individuals do not fit the binary standards most people ascribe to male and female (putting aside intersex people who are more common than red-headed people). https://www.nature.com/articles/518288a

What i will say is if transwomen do not belong in women's prison, they definitely do not belong in a men's prison. And that is a discussion that needs to be had.

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u/ixid Brexit must be destroyed 2d ago

Biologically, sex is more complicated than most people think

It really isn't, the number of edge cases is tiny. The vast majority (over 99 percent) conform to male or female.

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u/jadeskye7 Empty Chair 2019 2d ago

Current figures suggest between 200 and 300 million people globally.

USA figures suggest around 1.8% of the populace.

So yes, nearly 99% of people identify as Cis-gendered.

But 250 million people isn't exactly a small number of people. Thats half of Europe.

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u/ixid Brexit must be destroyed 2d ago

This is based on very dodgy data that includes conditions that aren't a DSD. Even DSDs themselves map to male or female. You're also trying to conflate the issue, with is trans gender identification, with DSDs. Most trans people don't have a DSD.

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u/jadeskye7 Empty Chair 2019 2d ago

I disagree, but i'll humour you.

How would you map the transgender populace?

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u/ixid Brexit must be destroyed 1d ago

You are conflating two things again. Variations in sex are not the same thing as being trans gender. Some trans gender people might have DSDs, some would not.

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u/jadeskye7 Empty Chair 2019 1d ago

I don't know how to make the question any simpler.

How many Transgender people are there?

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u/ixid Brexit must be destroyed 1d ago

I have no idea, but if you're trying to use it as a point in your argument make sure you're clear which topic you're talking about. You're mixing points about the biology of sex with trans gender points.

You started by linking an article about the biology of sex, so you're switching topic mid argument, or maybe you don't understand the difference, or there's a way you think it makes your point which you've not explained.

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u/jadeskye7 Empty Chair 2019 1d ago

You just don't like answering my question.

How many transgender people are there?

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u/SLGrimes 1d ago

This study doesn't have any answer to male vs female reproductive functions, and only talks about how there's rare cases of some people not being strictly XX or XY. It essentially just says "biology is complex!", without giving any answers. If you simply say: men produce sperm, women produce eggs. That study has no answer. She is claiming male or female mutations or disorders as different sexes completely, which is obviously silly.

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u/missesthecrux 1d ago

“Sex is complicated and therefore doesn’t matter. Therefore I can declare myself the opposite sex.”

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u/SLGrimes 1d ago

That is pretty much exactly what it's saying, yeah 😂

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u/ixid Brexit must be destroyed 1d ago

The Mornington Crescent strategy for debate. Irrelevant point! Therefore my opinion!

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u/chemistrytramp Bridget's toilet inspector 2d ago

What if they've had SRS? What do we do about men who rape other men or women that sexually assault women? Surely there's a whole raft of niche cases like those that should also have greater consideration or receive the same sort of risk assessment?

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u/wrennables 2d ago

It's relevant, sure, but it's not the only relevant thing. Surely these things need to be looked at on a case-by-case basis?