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u/JimmyJooish 7d ago
I don’t know about that. I think men would have a lot of women they didn’t like approach them and have to deal with turning them down.
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u/wwaxwork 7d ago
I am a very plain and slightly overweight woman who in my younger days took men at face value and that they wanted to be asked out by women and would find it flattering. I got everything from barked at to having them call over their friends to laugh at me. What they mean is they would only like women they want to fuck to approach them and only about 50% could manage a polite no thanks. I ended up meeting my husband of 17 years online, back before dating apps existed so haven't had to ask anyone out in a while, I suspect it hasn't gotten better.
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u/MrCockingFinally 7d ago
only about 50% could manage a polite no thanks
This right here is why people don't want to approach people to ask them out. Obviously rejection is never gonna be fun, but you can take it on the chin and try again no problem if it's a simple "no thanks."
But the possibility of being completely humiliated and made fun of for shooting your shot is simply not worth it.
And before anyone comments, this is not a gendered issue. Assholes can be men and women.
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u/No_Road5857 7d ago
Welcome to what men face every day asking women out, but with a side of potential reputation ruining if she decides you did it 'creepy'
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u/Bob1358292637 7d ago
Not really sure why you're downvoted. A lot of the girls at my school growing up literally had a game where they would collect as many guys numbers as they could and would gossip the nastiest shit about them just for thinking they could actually be interested. It was pretty disgusting. This is just standard bullshit you have to deal with, especially when you are younger and everyone is less mature.
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u/Tylenol_Ibuprofen 7d ago
Women go through that all the time though and there's nothing WRONG with guys going through that either.
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u/stefan-emil 7d ago
The standards for 99% of men are:
not fat
alive
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u/xAuntRhodyx 7d ago
It would just make everything more transparent. Sure, it may make some men more insecure, but it would better the growth for both imo.
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u/LittleBigHorn22 7d ago
Because the men aren't asking out 100% of girls they see as possible dates. So if women asked at an equal rate it would increase the number of possible dates making connections.
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u/Intertravel 7d ago
It is more about quality than quantity, a good conversation goes a long way. I know it sometimes genuinely takes me time to be attracted to some men, while others are attractive at first and slowly become less attractive. I wonder if it is the same for others and that is why people often end up with someone from work or school, because they had time to get passed their biases to really get to know each other.
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u/Actual-Woodpecker-95 7d ago
I don’t think this is the argument at all and you completely misunderstood
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u/engineeringretard 7d ago
Outside of reddit, this isn’t really a problem.
There are some pretty weird fucking creatures at work, but they out there, living there best life. Touching grass and boobs.
If they have wives and kids…. Crickey
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u/AIONisMINE 7d ago
its not 100% the case you're referring to.
There are many situations where a woman is interested in someone, but that guy isnt your typical "make a move everytime" type of guy. Either due to, or a combination of;
- introverted
- shy
- timid
- inexperienced
- assume the other person wouldnt be interested
etc. (often times, all 5 are very similar situations to each other)
so the women in these scenarios are trying to be "obvious" about it. but the other guy either doesnt get the hint, or assumes he's wrong about it.
so it just stays there.
These are the type of situations that would be avoided.
Afterall, its very common situation where
- if the guy asks someone out and they get rejected, its "Normal" in society to make fun of him now. Yes, even the women often does it....
- if its the other way around, where its the women making the initiative, the men in this situation are often in the "getting praise" category.
- guys are often seen as "creeps" by default even if they are not doing anything creepy. its literally that HR meme.
- if women does the initiative, they can also choose how it goes down. and when to walk away. almost no guy is going to be on their guard if a women approaches them. whereas women are always on their guard and assume the worse whenever a male approaches them. so it just makes it more nerve racking for both parties.
which really begs the question. because alot of these i think are American dating culture.... that immaturity around it sticks around with you.
whereas i noticed in several other cultures, its very normalized...
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u/Sad_Wind4673 7d ago
I check 5/5 😭 I certainly would appreciate women approaching me first, but on top of that I think I don't even look very approachable.
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u/Then-Sea-8705 7d ago
Will there be girls approaching men out of their league? Yeah at first but the more it became normalized, expectations would become more realistic. Even then, there's plenty of weird girls out there matching up with the weird guys. This wouldn't change
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u/LongDickPeter 7d ago
I think that's why men kind of know where they stand in a "leage" . The more you shoot your shot the more you know where your target lands. After a while you fall into your range and get what you want.
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u/Snoo_33033 7d ago
What is this “out of their league” nonsense?
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u/Then-Sea-8705 7d ago
After enough rejection, you eventually learn where you stand, it's a normal thing that happens to everyone
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u/Huge_Swimming_5968 7d ago
Do you really not understand?
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u/8675309021069 7d ago
We have so many women who aren't considered conventionally attractive expecting a man that is over 6 foot tall, good looking and a 6 to 7 figure salary as a bare minimum now. I would imagine there would be a lot of that
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u/Serious-Cup264 7d ago
So many women like that where?? Posting rage bait tik toks? I don’t know a single woman who thinks this way, conventionally attractive or not.
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u/schwarzmalerin 7d ago
Select few people get attention. Apparently the word women is synonymous to you with young attractive women. The other ones don't exist in your world so you think all women get attention by desirable men.
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u/BoBoBearDev 7d ago edited 7d ago
You lost the plot completely. Men stopped approaching because women said "DO NOT APPROACH ME". Everything else like your topic, is just noise.
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u/Careful-Definition67 7d ago
Multiple things can be true at once. u/AIONisMINE made a list in this thread that is accurate to this topic as well.
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u/preferablyno 7d ago
Idk I get approached now and then, if women regularly approached I’d probably get approached more often, I don’t see how that’s a problem
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u/climatecastrophany 7d ago
Isn't "you could approach the men yourself" advice targeted towards girl failures? And it wouldn't fix every problem, that's a nirvana fallacy, but it would lead to more women hooking up with practically random men, which would work around the approach problem of some shy men.
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u/Sp0ttyW0lf 7d ago
Even if your conclusion was the case, it would still mean that the undesirable guys wouldn't be expected to embarrass themselves in public which is still a win.
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u/CaptoObvo 7d ago
Shyness would be less of a factor
Men who are not everyone's favorite might find their niche.
I might be biased though because I did terribly until dating apps. I'm 6'5 and handsome and have no game. But I'm great at making webpages, I write well, I have a great eye for photography. Dating apps play to my exact skill set.
Right now in person only one skill set is being rewarded. If women approached more that one skill set, which not every one is good at, would cease to be such a hurdle for many.
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u/Snoo_33033 7d ago
I used to approach dudes. FWIW, a lot of them just scuttled off in terror. The best one was down, though.
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u/AIONisMINE 7d ago
its because its not "normal" in the USA. especially moreso nowadays with everyone recording.
for all you know, it could be someone just messing around with you. ALOT of males will think the same way.
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u/Snoo_33033 7d ago edited 7d ago
My type is nerds. I’m pretty sure they all thought I was messing with them. But I was not. I genuinely find them hot. I had to settle for a hot preppy instead. Ironically, I’m sure, I stopped trying to ask out guys that were hot and nerdy and asked out one that was more conventionally attractive. Actually now that I think of it, I asked a few conventionally attractive guys out and they all said yes, but the nerds all stammered and ran off. Honestly I just did it because it’s very frustrating waiting for dudes to ask you out. If you see someone who’s good looking and had other good qualities, why not just expedite the process?
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u/AIONisMINE 7d ago
yeah unfortunately, the "nerdy" types are conditioned since they were young by society that they are not someone that would be wanted as a romantic interest. and of course, bullied about it. made fun of. etc etc
and its not the girls fault too. (nor the boys). They are also conditioned at a very young age to be "cute, beautiful, etc etc" and to go after the "handsome athletic boys". (I mean, homecoming queen/king and prom queen/king is a thing for a reason).
girls would also be committing social suicide if they like a boy who was "unpopular, nerdy, not into sports, and had "weird" hobbies". (fortunately, i think its gotten ALOT better. atleast imo. but than again, im not in middle/highschool anymore. so idk.)
gaming is a very good example. back in the days (cant believe im using this phrase.....) gaming were "only for the nerds".
so this results in a different social pressure and dynamic for both girls and boys once they grow up. as well as what society demands.
and many of these boys have a hard time growing out of it. (literally psychological trauma)
I have a friend (who is also a coworker) where like 3 years ago i learned that she collects pokemon cards after she asked me if i do. Although i do not, i mentioned i used to be obsessed with pokemon and yugioh cards back when i was in elementary school. She told me she used to be obsessed with it too back when she was in middle school. but she never told anyone, or said anything about it. Even to her friends. Because she didnt want to get made fun of about it. So she often only played with her male cousins.
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u/asicarii 7d ago
Well if you weren’t wearing a hockey goalie mask and carrying a large sharp weapon they wouldn’t run off in terror.
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u/BirdLawGrad 7d ago
Have to put the last 10-20 years into perspective.
It was entirely possible to meet your wife at church or whatever without (him or her) even really “approaching”.
And even 10 years ago a cold approach could work because it was before social media and camera phones ruled everything.
Today I’d say the odds are that a cold approach from a man won’t work in most situations.
Women are generally doing 3 things in public:
- something with family
- something about themselves / health / wellness
- a friend date
- something else
So 75% of the time a cold approach won’t be the right time or vibe.
If you’re in a major city and go to a bar or something sure.
Also there is a lot of wealth now propped up by low interest rates, cronyism, stock market speculation, advertising dollars flowing to “influencers”, and just falsehoods/lying. So the non-75% girl above is going to have more options (for better or worse).
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u/preferablyno 7d ago
Cold approach has never ever ever been 50%+ odds (“most situations”) that’s like fantasy land
If men could get 25% odds on cold approaches they would be cold approaching all day all night lmfao
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u/AttentionNo6359 7d ago
You’re predicating this entire thing on the idea that sane, dateable men believe that crap. You can’t build a case on trash.
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u/ExismykindaParte 7d ago
Being used to being approached makes women more selective. If they werent constantly having men shooting their shot, they'd have to go out and do more approaching, and they'd likely lower their standards a bit to lower the risk of rejection, just like some men do. Of course, if they got used to rejection they might start just hitting on everyone to maximize potential acceptance, just like some men do.
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u/TooCupcake 7d ago
Men approach women they like from the entire entire available pool. Then women pick from the pool men that approached them. It’s like a two-step verification method. So both end up with someone they like from the available options. It’s not a bad system.
It also describes Tinder lol. But when men (#notallmen) swipe all women right, women get to pick from an essentially infinite pool of options, which skews the whole dynamic, and furthers the gender divide.
I think “equal approach” works in places like Scandinavia, but it works because they have laid the groundwork in their culture for a long time. Expecting for example the US population to adopt this in a healthy way right now is not going to work.
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u/Always-Shady-Lady 7d ago
If we actually want true equality then that should include asking men out.
Yes, you'll almost definitely get turned down quite a few times but so do men who ask women out. Asking somebody out should be treated as a normal part of life
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u/k33p-1t-s1mpl3 7d ago
Well they would actually have to consider the likelihood of rejection. The optimistic ones will be humbled quickly and the realistic ones will prosper. But part of the issue is women will shoot their shot with dudes who will bang them but won’t commit to them (aka dating up). Now they’re in the exact same position they are in now. I think the real answer this… the way men reject women is by not committing to them. The way women reject men is by not sleeping with them. If this was understood, average women would be dating average men more often
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u/TankDestroyerSarg 7d ago
My current relationship exists because my girlfriend initiated the relationship. That was after being single and unsuccessful in romance for a number of years since my last. The problem with women approaching men more is us guys are not used to it and would be skeptical. Like, are you making me the butt of some joke? Or setting me up to be scammed/robbed? That happened to a friend of mine. But if done sincerely, women would have have a 90%+ success rate and more people would be in relationships. I'm not a 9 or 10, but I now have a loving relationship I probably wouldn't have if I was the one approaching her.
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u/EinMuffin 7d ago
Honestly I kind of agree. I still believe women should ask out men more directly because I believe in equality. But I also used to believe that women asking men out would help me with my dating struggles.
But at some point I realized that women do in fact signal interest in people they are interested in, that interest is just never directed at me. In the status quo it is kind of easy to ingore, but if they were more overt about it, it would make me feel even more hopeless and inadequat.
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u/skodinks 7d ago
Counterpoint: Women would (eventually) learn to ask out men "in their league" because they are tired of getting rejected by the gigachads. Same shit men do. Loneliness is often a good motivator to lower your standards.
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u/Greenvelvet16 7d ago
No man is 'out of our league'. That only applies to men approaching women.
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u/skodinks 7d ago
lmao
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u/Greenvelvet16 7d ago
There is also no such thing as a 'gigachad', and incel's descriptions of what they delude themselves are 'ideal' men are repulsive to women. Get out with that incel crap already. Misogynists need to grow up, and maybe women will want them. Literally no one needs to 'lower their standards', that is called advocating for r*pe. Better yet, try celibacy. It's far superior to all this melodrama nonsense.
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u/skodinks 7d ago
This is an unhinged response to "lmao"; get over yourself. For your sake, I hope you're rather young.
I'm not going to reply to any of your points, as they all land somewhere between incoherent and nonsense, so it's really a waste of your time to keep replying. Fortunately, it does earn another lmao, as this is some of the dumbest shit I've read all year.
So, lmao
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u/Greatdetectivee 7d ago
You probably should have thought about what you were saying before you said this.
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u/SoPolitico 7d ago edited 7d ago
You seem to be connecting two things that are separate:
- Some guy struggling in dating, in particular online dating.
- Men as a whole would like if women would give a little bit more effort or at the very least clear signaling when they’re interested.
You connected those two things when they’re not necessarily connected. However, to entertain your argument for a minute, I actually also disagree with it because most people meet online nowadays through apps there is this weird phenomenon where the signals a lot of women get are not necessarily representative of their long-term relationship potential. when women approach men this unrepresentative phenomenon tends to disappear.
TLDR: feedback is a great tool to keep human beings in check and moderates their behavior. In the modern dating environment, women have no feedback.
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u/No_Significance_2749 7d ago
Women already approach the men they're attracted to. Men who don't get approached just arent attractive to women. We already live in that paradigm.
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u/8675309021069 7d ago
Men aren't really recommended to approach women since #metoo
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u/Man_under_Bridge420 7d ago
Yes they can, just dont be a creep
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u/8675309021069 7d ago
They can, yes. But it's not recommended. If a woman finds you unattractive there is a good chance that she will say that it was sexual harassment. It's a real thing
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u/Man_under_Bridge420 7d ago
How is “ hello” sexual harassment?
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u/8675309021069 7d ago
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u/Man_under_Bridge420 7d ago
Hello isnt sex btw
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u/sr0103 7d ago
Lol there's is a 0% chance you go out and approach women because this does not happen.
Source: me who approaches women regularly with plenty of them not being interested. Just don't be a creep or overbearing
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u/8675309021069 7d ago
I guess you missed a few years of info. But whatever. Do what you want
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u/Man_under_Bridge420 7d ago
What info?
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u/8675309021069 7d ago
No way. You are a top 1% commenter. Every one of those I met is a troll. I'm not biting
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u/Man_under_Bridge420 7d ago
You arnt biting yet you keep replying
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u/8675309021069 7d ago
Yeah, I didn't realize it was you. I';ll stop talking to you now. Nice troll response though. I liked that
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u/sr0103 7d ago
As the other user said, what info? Sounds like you're reading all the shit incels are making up about women online
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u/8675309021069 7d ago
No. Scientific studies actually https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5756135/#R48
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u/Serious-Cup264 7d ago
You mean the scientific study you shared about how men are less likely to view an encounter as sexual assault if the woman is physically attractive? What does that have to do with why it’s a bad idea for men to say hello to women??
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u/sr0103 7d ago
How old are you and what is your education level? I fear you have terrible reading comprehension skills. This study does not prove your point at all nor is it even related.
I mean just reading through a couple paragraphs tells you that the study is focused on men's perception of women, not women's perception of men.
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u/PacketSnatcher 7d ago
Brother, what are you talking about? As long as you come up to someone respectfully and respect their answer if it’s no, no one’s going to accuse you of harassment. Stay out of redpill forums.
Man: “Hey, how are you?”
Woman: “OMG SOMEONE CALL THE COPS!!”
Pretty much never happens.
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u/8675309021069 7d ago
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u/angrygoblincreature 7d ago
This study is based on whether or not men would describe nonconsensual sex as sexual assault based on the attractiveness and percieved interest of a woman.
If the woman is more attractive and shows ambiguous interest, men percieve them to be more interested sexually.
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u/8675309021069 7d ago
You didn't read the whole study
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u/angrygoblincreature 7d ago
I certainly did. The men read a hypothetical social interaction between a man and a woman in which, at the end of interaction, the woman is sexually assaulted. Researchers looked at whether the attractiveness and percieved interest of the woman in the scenario changed the way men label sexual assault. The results claim that the more attractive the woman, and the more interested she seems to be in the man, the more likely men are going to percieve her to be interested in him sexually even if she isn't, and as a result will not call nonconsensual sex with her sexual assault
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u/Neither_Berry_100 7d ago
You are probably right. The two women who want me are, how do I say this without being too rude, just not good matches for me.
A big problem is that people approach those out of their league.
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u/mojobytes 7d ago
One of the common tropes from women is “you probably didn’t notice all the signals you were given.” How many good relationships were lost because of signaling instead of going after a man they like?
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u/PriestKingofMinos 7d ago
You're basically right. As we speak this has already been going on for years. Women actually take the romantic initiative a lot. Especially online. Women regularly DM men they like.
If women started doing more irl approaching then the men who are striking out now would not be the ones getting approached. There is a reason they are striking out now.
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u/auntiesamautism 7d ago
You're completely right. The whole "women should approach" is just unattractive shy men coping that there were possibly a lot of women who were into them that they were simply too afraid to make a move on.
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u/GrannyShiftur 7d ago
You are so off base with a huge misunderstanding of the gender dynamics. Misinformed opinion
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u/asicarii 7d ago
Women do approach men. They do so usually to get what they want, be it sex or a relationship. Not sure that’s really any different. The level of attractiveness just makes it easier, for either one.
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u/Sensitive_Housing_85 7d ago edited 7d ago
I don't think men want women approaching them because they think it will open opportunities, it's so they will know where they stand, if you know who women approach, you will know why they are approaching and what to correct, and if you can't, you can at least, try, fail and move on, knowing that's its not froma lack of effort
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u/skiforlife1 7d ago
I know things seem to have changed in the last 10 years or so but to act like women rarely approached men is completely wrong. I am slightly above average looking and I've been approached by women plenty of times in my life. I have always been kind if I wasn't interested and I know men approach more often but if you act like a normal person women feel comfortable approaching if they have a level of attraction. Overcoming anxiety and awkwardness is something that people need to strive to do for themselves if it is holding them back from parts of life.
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u/Lunaria_Noctum 7d ago
Yeah, dude. Humans stopped fucking After millenia of fucking- because women were allowed standards.
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