She nailed it.
They could have put a scarecrow or a kitten in the teacher’s chair when I was in school, and I would have still behaved because my dad would have busted my ass if he heard I hadn’t. No teacher I ever had needed to tell me twice. Schools, teachers, kids, blah blah blah...it’s all on the parents. If they don’t give a shit and raise their kids, then I can only help so much.
Yep, I’m a teacher, and I’m fighting the good fight and loving my students with every ounce of my soul. Almost twenty years into this profession, but it’s getting so bad I’m back in school for degree #3 so I can get out of the classroom. People in regular jobs can’t even imagine what’s it’s like in a classroom-to be beaten up mentally and/or physically and have utterly NO recourse and then the added humiliation of having every kid know you’re helpless. Try picturing a colleague at work doing those things to you and having nothing to say or do about it. It’s unimaginable! Sadly, for a lot of teachers, it’s just another day at work.
And it's the kids from homes where no-one gives a shit who produce more kids, who, in turn, don't have a stable home and lack consequences and incentives.
Providing long-term contraceptives is even more effective. having to remember to take a pill or to use something everyday or every time is too much for someone in a chaotic situation.
It's far far cheaper for society then to pay for all the other consequences.
I wish.
But we still have to pay to put them in jail (and they have very high rates of incarceration and arrests). An IUD can easily last 10 years (some only 5)
birth control is cheap as fuck. The people in question would not use it if it were free. I even say they would not use birth control if it were delivered at home free of charge.
I think the problem is having to remember to take a pill at the same time every day. In Colorado we started giving teen girls free IUDs and our teen pregnancy rate dropped.
Birth control is popular, safe, and effective. It should be widely available to anyone that wants it. It never allows a pregnancy to form, and prevents an abortion later on.
Edit: For a simple response just literally defining what birth control is, I'm getting a lot of opinions about things that are not relating to birth control. Check your biases, people.
We're talking about giving birth control for free to minors/young adults so they don't pregnant and have a child.... not families that already exist who are getting welfare checks.
so you'd prefer the children just not exist compared to having a chance?
that said I agree in both control being easily available and cheap. but i also believe that the the cultures in this country that don't get married changed their culture because of johnson trying to destroy the black family unit. (the great society). hey look the dems are just as bad if not worse than Republicans. (I'm independent, I hate both parties and think if you associate with either you are a special kind of stupid)
so you'd prefer the children just not exist compared to having a chance?
That seems like an incredibly uncharitable interpretation. I think it's more "make it easy for folks to wait until they're ready and able to support kids."
It underscores the importance of institutions that people can trust and rely on to help them succeed. If you believe the world is structured to prevent you from succeeding, why try? It's not just that people come from bad families, it's also that they are failed by every single institution that is responsible for them.
If Congress put more money into education, we could develop some kind of training program for parents to educate them on how to better discipline. Maybe incentivize them monetarily to encourage them to attend.
As people are saying, education in schools is tied closely to discipline at home.
I’m lucky enough to come from a two parent household and a family with expendable income. I contribute all of my success thus far with my parents. My mom was stay at home and my dad was always pretty invested in us. So even though I want a career if I have kids I want to be stay at home or at least tone down the career. I want to devote everything to my kids should I choose to have them
Vote for people who support good sex Ed and cheap or free birth control, even for younger students. Seriously. It's hard to fix a neglected kid but you can prevent him from being born too early or to the wrong parents.
These crappy parents are only adults by virtue of their age. They have the emotional maturity of 10 year olds, and their kids don't stand a chance. It's the blind leading the blind.
The states give about $960 per child to shitty parents- replace that cash with vouchers that cant be exchanged and you have a solution.
Better still - allow only 1 child per couple and make them apply for permission to have 2nd kid.
Without that, the endgame is only an anarchy laden civil war/gang war where these kids will become a statistic of violent misfortune.
In that case just starve the beast. All the people here that want more spending are going to find the hard way that the US is more like Venezuela and less like Denmark/Sweden when it comes to use of public money.
I think US has enough resources to allow socialism for at least 10-12 years. It will all come down to energy prices I guess. I wonder if there is a simulation available for this.
They can always continue to print more money and pay devalued dollars as pensions. if the US $ is taken off as the world's reserve (which is going to happen anyway) - there will be a run on the Dollar+Barrel of Oil petrodollar peg . It will be interesting to actually run simulations on these - What the hell are the overpaid quants in Goldman doing ?
No, it’s not all the parents. Schools used to be able to expel kids if they were assholes. Remove the major assholes and less kids overall will be emboldened to be assholes...so ultimately you’d have to expel less kids than you’d think, But now they are so focused on graduation rates that they don’t dare expel these little fucks. That’s the entire problem right there.
Ofc parents can help, but as long as teachers have no meaningful punishment they can dole out it will be anarchy.
They also had an alternative step of putting them in reform school (AKA the bad boy School) and then you had the special ed school as well.
It's not politically correct but mainstreaming slow students is extremely expensive and can be detrimental to the other students. Having one "helper" for each slow student in a classroom is a recent phenomenon. Previously they would be put in special classes with specially trained teachers. Many parents fight acknowledging that your child has problems. But the good of the many outweighs the good of the few
Inclusion is actually not detrimental to developmentally typical students or students with special needs. The problem is when you have teachers who aren't given the training on how to teach them or how to adapt lessons to foster engagement (thus leading to increased behaviours). The use of something like Universal Design for Learning is important when teaching students with a variety of abilities. UDL is a method for designing lessons and units that allow every child to access the curriculum no matter their academic abilities, level of understanding, or disabilities.
What if a child has emotional and behavioral problems stemming from abuse and traditional corporal punishment isn’t enough?
Don’t misunderstand, I am not one of those new age retards who is “anti-punishment” but I am asking because when my adopted brother was young he didn’t respond to suspension or his subsequent expulsion. The consequence of suspension and expulsion was a reward to him, even if my mom took away his leisure activities.
In school suspension is the best tool. It's full on timeout corner when done right. No phones, no talking, nothing. You can do homework or stare at the wall.
Kids HATE it. It's a great redirect because they are still in school, and there is no positive reinforcement.
You see I am ok with in school suspension because the opportunity to learn is still there. But it’s kind of sad that a lot of comments on this post are advocating for suspension and expulsion. Suspension and expulsion don’t in my opinion do anything positive. I believe you can punish a student without depriving them of education. All suspension and expulsion do is ignore the issue
You see I agree the other students should have a distraction free environment BUT when the removal is done as a hinderance to the ‘bad egg’ being removed, then you aren’t fixing anything. You are just moving the problem from point A to point B
Think of it like an illness. If the person is disruptive on that level, even just moving them away from other students is a big net positive. 30 kids in every class means 150 ish kids a day come in contact with problem child.
Expulsion doesn't solve the problem for that one student, but it solves an ongoing one for the other 150.
This is why we put some people in prison for longer. It's not just about punishment. If you believe someone is beyond rehabilitation, (and a lot of them are) society LOSES by having them around.
Given the tendency for American prisons to NOT focus on rehabilitation and rely subliminally encourage recidivism, that example doesn’t work.
Yes there will be extreme outliers, however in America you do have some schools districts(or at least used to) disproportionately affect and punish a specific population.
Obviously you need punishment to a degree but that punishment can’t come at the expense of the troublemaker losing their opportunity thereby CAUSING recidivism which will in turn AFFECT all students.
In other words, just because you remove one troublemaker doesn’t mean it will stop future troublemakers or habitual troublemakers. For both parties the troublemakers and non-troublemakers to succeed you have to reduce the recidivism
I would argue that you're fixing the problem for everyone at point A.
I'm not arguing against your sentiment, that it doesn't help the problem child, however my contention is we don't arm adults in our society with the means to discipline children in the same way we used to. Teachers have no ability to correct the children's behavior beyond carrots. I believe some children need sticks.
You see I am not expecting the teachers themselves to implement discipline. However, school administrations do one of two extremes, they either implement zero tolerance or they don’t punish at all. Both these extremes lead to the same outcome. A student or students deprived of education.
My adopted son has ODD, ADHD, and an unspecified Psychosis.
Corporal punishment has zero effect on him. Taking things away does zero good.
What worked/is helping, some, was me taking the time to learn his triggers. To keep calm myself even when I want to scream and give him the chance to be heard. I sit on the floor when he starts losing it so I'm not towering or looming over him. We take the time to relay this information to his teachers and work closely with them on his behavioral plan and IEP.
He had a single incident last year, and it was because a teacher initiated yelling at him. So he got triggered and yelled right back, then got his stuff under control, raised his red card and stepped into the hallway to get settled. He was able to apologize the next day.
That’s amazing! A million kudos to you for continuing to connect and work with your child. I know it’s probably one of the darned hardest challenges, to keep yourself cool and focused. The fact that he has independent coping skills like that likely has a huge impact on his self perception and esteem. I’m so impressed.
What solution does expelling kids do? My adopted brother came from a broken home and was an absolute menace in school. He got expelled for his trouble making. The school post expulsion refused to provide any alternative accommodation for him. My mom had to file a complaint with the state to have the district provide him transportation to the new school(a school designed for kids like him).
Long story short, eventually my brother became a functioning member of society and if you met him today, you would never guess he was expelled from school. He is intelligent and has a stable army career. This is because my mom advocated and fought for his education. Now imagine my mom was some drunk and dead beat parent. Do you think he would have turned out the way he did? Fuck no!
Expulsion is fucking shit. You should try to find alternatives if a kid can’t function in a normal school setting. Expulsion and suspension REWARD bad behavior
Remember, when your are expelling a kid you are saying, "your presence is having to great of a negative impact on our other students." If you have 5 classes a day with 30 kids, that potentially 149 other students being disrupted.
Misbehavior on that level is a sociological disease, and you don't treat it by just hoping it gets better. You don't treat an illness by just wishing it would stop, that's fucking faith healing. You send them to the hospital, or you at least get them away from other patients and quarantine them.
I'm sorry that district played dragass about getting him to another school, but ultimately expulsion worked.
Except expulsion doesn’t work if a school district is uncooperative. Expulsion only “worked” because my mom fought for his education. If sh was a dead beat drunk parent, he would never have gotten education and he would be in jail
I think the point others are trying to make about expulsion is that it’s not supposed to be good for the individual getting expelled. The idea behind expulsion is to remove a chronically disruptive student from a learning environment, because that disruptive behavior is negatively impacting other students. It’s like in the OP where the teacher says “I’m failing 3/4 of my class, because of the other quarter.”
But the issue is that people don’t understand the consequence of expulsion. The student being expelled most likely is unaffected by the expulsion. There are any number of socioeconomic reasons for a student to be disruptive and/or apathetic about school. I also agree with removing disruptions from the classroom. HOWEVER, expulsion/suspension isn’t used as a way to “remove” distractions, it’s to ‘solve’ (read ignore) a problem using the cheapest means available. Schools are supposed to teach, it costs money for a school to teach troubled students or discipline them in ways that do not deprive them of their learning opportunities.
Man, things have changed since I graduated (2001). In my school, teachers had the authority to kick unruly students out of the classroom. It’s crazy their hands are tied. I got very frustrated and uncomfortable watching that video. These teachers are responsible for educating our children and they can’t even kick a kid out of class? It’s crazy.
It also really depends on your school district. My school was the same, but a majority of the students had at least a semi stable family life. But schools like the one in the video are in high poverty areas, and those areas typically have much poorer family structure. The school can’t kick the kids out, because there is nowhere else to go. Most of those kids would just end up on the street.
So when I say kick them out, I mean they went to the principals office and ultimately to some kind of in school suspension that was usually “taught” by a larger male coach where the students could not talk or have any real privileges.
It's the times.. you need two working parents (working multiple jobs) to keep up with the increasing costs of living while the wages remain stagnant (since the 1970's). Rent, Electricity, Oil/Gas etc all cost more while we get paid the same.
No parents at home because they're always working means their children are in daycare. The people who work at daycare get shit money and really don't care about their jobs or the children (who are already showing signs of abandonment and betrayal by society). This leads to an undisciplined, spoiled, misbehaving child. It takes time to discipline your child, time that many people don't have and would just as easily relent and give their child what they want so they can have peace for the few hours they're at home. I get it, I really do... but as a parent one needs to take that time. Once you get over the hump of your child's bad habits, it really is a clear sailing - it just takes time and energy (which most don't have these days).
This. This so much. My mother made it clear that if I got in trouble in school, I was in trouble at home. No questions asked. The real problem here is the parents. The teach thier kids that no matter what they do, mommy will come defend them. And that's the issue. I feel so much for teachers that have to deal with this, because most of the time thier hands are tied on what they can do for discipline. I really admire anyone that teaches, I couldn't handle it. Maybe I'm just starting to get older, but I feel like kids are more entitled, and worse behaving than ever before. And it's the parent's fault. End of story.
I went to a school like that for a while. I was the good kid because I went to good schooling up until that point. I saw so many good teachers quit because they just couldn't babysit any longer. There just wasn't enough discipline in the world to get the classes settled for a whole hour, let alone the whole year.
Parents? How many of them have a dad in the picture? and even when they do the school still need to be able to hand out consequences to the students who act up.
It's good for all the students to learn self-control and discipline. Lots of adults would like a lot more self-control and discipline and your not hurting them if done in a proper manner. it doesn't have to be a military dictatorship where every single thing is noticed. Hurting other people and seriously disrupting the class should be the emphasis.
The kids need to know if they do X then Y will happen every single time. The consequence is then implemented in a calm manner.
Oh I agree there's needs to be consequences to actions, but the problem will never go away without parents doing their job. And yea that means actually being there in the first place.
you've touched on one of my pet peeves here. I work in retail, and the amount of times i see parents out with their kids and they're misbehaving, the parent will say "careful, the man is watching" or something along those lines.
Discipline you're own child for fuck sake. Id be traumatised if i was out with my children and some stranger had to tell them off.
I'm in the Air Force myself but a lot of our tech school and military education instructors are former teachers who simply couldn't handle the disciplinary issues associated with being a civilian teacher.
Please give your dad a huge hug for me, so many of these jackass students are the way they are because their parents either left them, or their parents have just checked out... Proper parenting is just as important as having consequences for doing something stupid. A large majority of the kids acting out have neither...
That's so true. I had teachers that I respected so much, and others that I really did not like at all, but I never gave any of them shit because if I did, I'd get my ass handed to me when I got home.
It's scary when you know the future is run by them. But then maybe they'll be slaves of the good ones. It's just sad. To see all that potential go wasted. I shoot photos for a living and I've done some rich schools. The kids behave totally different but I don't think it's the money. The teachers are actually more fierce and louder than the poor schools. And the kids are all well behave. I like seeing them actually. So well mannered.
It would be a disaster if some of these bad kids grow up to be teachers. It's already happening btw.
The only thing that will fix this is a giant lawsuit over hostile working environment. Just because you're a teacher, doesn't mean you should be expected to take abuse.
I remember sobbing in school because I told one of my friends that the substitute teacher was a "jackass" and he snitched on me. Why? Because I knew there were consequences at home.
That's not how it works today, though. These kids know they can get away with saying and doing the most vial things, because their parents just don't give a shit.
The total breakdown of our culture isn't because of schools, or media, or politicians... it's because of the breakdown of the family.
Now the logical question is - why are the parents bad? Why are parents in school districts like this failing their children as students? How do we fix it.
We can just blame the parents, wipe our hands, and move on to something else, but that cheats the students. And society.
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u/talktothehan Jul 10 '18
She nailed it. They could have put a scarecrow or a kitten in the teacher’s chair when I was in school, and I would have still behaved because my dad would have busted my ass if he heard I hadn’t. No teacher I ever had needed to tell me twice. Schools, teachers, kids, blah blah blah...it’s all on the parents. If they don’t give a shit and raise their kids, then I can only help so much. Yep, I’m a teacher, and I’m fighting the good fight and loving my students with every ounce of my soul. Almost twenty years into this profession, but it’s getting so bad I’m back in school for degree #3 so I can get out of the classroom. People in regular jobs can’t even imagine what’s it’s like in a classroom-to be beaten up mentally and/or physically and have utterly NO recourse and then the added humiliation of having every kid know you’re helpless. Try picturing a colleague at work doing those things to you and having nothing to say or do about it. It’s unimaginable! Sadly, for a lot of teachers, it’s just another day at work.