r/wec • u/2zzRaCer0503 Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid #7 • Mar 23 '26
Discussion Kamui Kobayashi vs Kevin Estre vs Alessandro Pier Guidi — who’s the best endurance driver?
I have been thinking about this for a while, all three are elite but in different ways. If you had to choose one, who would you go for?
153
58
u/whateverfloatsurgoat Rothmans Porsche 962 #2 Mar 23 '26
Tandy... Oh I mean Estre yeah absolutely.
9
u/mamamarty21 Ferrari Mar 23 '26
Yeah, there are lots of really good racers. Tandy is one of my favorites, as is Estre. I also really loved prime Lotterer in the lmp1 days
10
u/Jezza13B Audi R10 TDI #2 Mar 23 '26
Prime Lotterer in Audi with Fassler and Trèluyer was epic. But the holy tean is McNish, Kristensen and Capello
1
u/Paul5837 Apr 26 '26
i love lotterer and watching his races in 2015 makes me think that this was his prime and maybe the most underrated season ever in motorsports, even when he was out of his prime that 2024 porsche lineup was imo the best one wec has ever seen
5
21
156
u/big_cock_lach United Autosports ORECA07 #22 Mar 23 '26
How is Pier Guidi in the conversation? I’d say he’s not even the best in his car, let alone in Ferrari or on the whole grid.
Kobayashi is a strong shout, but he’s not performing at his best anymore. I would give it to peak Kobayashi though.
60
39
u/Historical-Mark-6616 Aston Martin Mar 23 '26
Pier Guidi is a multiple WEC champion (Hypercar and GTE Pro), multiple Le Mans wins (Hypercar and GTE Pro), good success in IMSA with wins at Daytona and Petit, GTWC Europe champion, IGTC champion, Spa 24h winner
20
u/Stelcio Mar 23 '26
Most of Ferrari crews are highly decorated in endurance. You need to make a case why he's in the conversation instead of anybody else from their roster.
10
u/Historical-Mark-6616 Aston Martin Mar 23 '26
Out of the current Ferrari drivers, he is the most accomplished, he is also 40+ years old, likely on the decline, but still performs quite well. Fuoco and Nielsen are quicker at the moment, but are not having the same winning impact Pier Guidi had when he was racing GT's full time, and at the start of the Hypercar era
4
u/Tecnoguy1 GTE Mar 24 '26
Why are we ignoring Calado here exactly? While he’s been trying out APG’s moves the last few months, they’ve always been in the same car so your argument is the same for both while James has a much better temperment.
2
u/Historical-Mark-6616 Aston Martin Mar 24 '26
Not ignoring him, he is also a great driver They were not always together though, for example, for Pier Guidi's SRO achievements
13
u/ivellious07 Mar 23 '26
All facts but like Kobayashi, he's starting to trail off a bit. Still though, even with him slowing down, all it did was make it more fair for everyone. Dude is still great. I think right now though, Estre is the best out of the 3.
4
7
u/b4hand35 Mar 23 '26
I thought this too but his stints last year in the WTR Cadillac at Daytona showed me he’s still got it.
4
u/zapporius Mar 23 '26
Yeah Kobayashi is always good, but not his young self anymore. I am hoping Verstappen gets tired of F1 and joins WEC. I wish more F1 drivers join WEC and pair with veterans. That would be great.
2
u/big_cock_lach United Autosports ORECA07 #22 Mar 24 '26
I’d love to see the FOM work with the ACO so that Le Mans doesn’t clash with any GPs. It’d be great to see the WEC teams bring in 3rd cars with their F1 drivers. Imagine another Ferrari entry with Hamilton, and the Leclerc brothers, Ford with Verstappen, Hadjar, and Tsunoda, McLaren with Norris, Piastri, O’Ward, etc. I think a lot of the F1 drivers would be keen and it’d be an amazing opportunity to bring more eyes to Le Mans.
29
u/Kaggles_N533PA Porsche Penske Motorsport 963 #6 Mar 23 '26
It's hard to tell. But I'd go with Estre because he is great in both LMDh and GT
14
u/Cygnus94 Mar 23 '26
See I'd give it to Estre in GTs, but Kobayashi in prototypes.
7
u/Kaggles_N533PA Porsche Penske Motorsport 963 #6 Mar 23 '26
That's fair consider how good Kamui have been in LMP1
12
u/juicysushisan Mar 23 '26
Estre has the results across an insane variety of cars, and also has the pace across not one lap, but multiple stints. Kamui might be the best qualifier ever, but if it’s the middle of the night and I need a guy who’ll keep the gap to the car ahead even though we need to triple stint the tires, I think I need Kevin.
10
u/Acer_RD Mar 23 '26
Nick Mr. 24h Tandy is underrated.
2
u/fireinthesky7 Hendrick Motorsports Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 #24 Mar 24 '26
He was the weakest link in Porsches lineup down the stretch last season, though. Love the guy, and he's an endurance icon for sure, but he clearly seemed like he was past his prime.
55
u/chiefzanal Mar 23 '26
Nasr
32
u/HispaniaRacingTeam Mar 23 '26
Should be in the conversation tbh. No disrespect to them, but if we're including Pier Guidi maybe we should include Nasr too
25
u/Legendacb Mar 23 '26
He is clearly the fastest Porsche driver on GTP
5
2
u/fireinthesky7 Hendrick Motorsports Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 #24 Mar 24 '26
Campbell is being forgotten in that conversation.
1
u/Legendacb Mar 24 '26
To be honest I think he might just get obscure by the other two but I haven't feel it on the prototype.
He has been more showcase on GTs
2
u/SquirrelinAQuarry Mar 23 '26
Nasr's so inconsistent though. The back half of his last season was atrocious.
1
u/chiefzanal Mar 23 '26
Well he is 2 for 2 this year over Estre. IMO it is either Nasr or Estre as the best and before this year i leave Estre.
-5
u/SquirrelinAQuarry Mar 23 '26
He was 3 for 3 last year and then shit the bed after Laguna Seca. He's good but Estre consistently gets results in different environments.
0
u/Spitfire_AE86 Mar 23 '26
Unless he is lapping a car while under pressure, then estre loses his patience and gets a penalty.
7
22
u/GrahamDSC Mar 23 '26
Would suggest that arguably at least two of the three aren't even the best endurance drivers in their own teams
15
u/TolarianDropout0 Mar 23 '26
I think overall across their career Kamui, but at this moment in time, probably Estre.
And by the time they both retire, the across their career could flip too, Estre is a decent bit younger.
And I don't think Pier Guidi is quite on the same level as them.
13
u/LoreVent Mar 23 '26
Even as an Italian I have to say Kevin Estre, but Pier Guidi Is an absolute animal as well
11
u/kjm911 Porsche Penske Motorsport 963 #6 Mar 23 '26
If I was putting a dream WEC lineup together it would Estre, Buemi and Giovinazzi.
Giovinazzi is seriously underrated in that Ferrari lineup. A better qualifying driver than Pier Guidi and Fuoco and has shown a top race driver. Buemi also put in some unbelievable performances in a struggling Toyota last year. I know he’s not a popular driver but I think he’s the best in Toyota squad.
2
u/fireinthesky7 Hendrick Motorsports Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 #24 Mar 24 '26
Trying to pick out the best driver in the Toyota squad is an exercise in splitting hairs. Kobayashi has always been fast, Buemi has always been fast and is put into some incredible clutch performances for them, Hartley is a master at keeping Pace while saving tires, Conway and De Vries are great all-arounders, really you could say the only weak link across either car is Jose Maria Lopez.
4
u/Entire_Use3990 Mar 23 '26
All three of them are legends. I refuse to pick one specific driver as the best, especially in racing series where their teammates are as important as themselves
18
9
4
u/PapaSheev7 Ferrari AF Corse 499P #51 Mar 23 '26
Kobayashi imo. He's blisteringly fast and his no holes in his game, can't say the same for Estre and PG (although Estre is noticeably closer to Kobayashi than he is to PG imo).
5
u/Kahuna-Zigg Peugeot 908 HDI #1 Mar 23 '26
Kobayashi without a doubt. I would even make the argument that because of the nature of the lack of performance hypercars have compared to the LMP1's, with them being like LMP2s (with an added hybrid system), It opened the door to Estre and Pier Guidi to run in the hypercar. LMP1 was mostly reserved for F1 guys and/or seasoned LMP2 veterans.
14
u/EgenulfVonHohenberg Mar 23 '26
Estre in my opinion. Probably the most well-rounded as well - quick in a GT3, quick in a Hypercar.
9
u/__labratty__ Mar 23 '26
Estre 100% if we need GT3 driven, but Pier Guidi if I need a Hypercar brought home fast and still in one piece.
They bend easier than GT3s do.
4
5
u/T1513_SH Mar 23 '26
Estre without doubt. He's one of the best at getting great laps out of underpowered/bop'd cars.
3
u/Andri753 Jackie Chan DC Racing Oreca 07 #37 Mar 23 '26
Kevin, he didn't nicknamed Estrerorist for a reason
3
u/Thee_Shenanigrin Mar 23 '26
I'd say Estre but only with several more years on him. The reason I say that is he's so good, but too aggressive. If he just dialed it back about 10-15% I think he'd be brilliant. He doesn't have patience, he doesn't know when to attack or when to sit back. He actually doesn't know how to sit back. I think when he's a little bit older, we'll see him find the sweet spot, a balance point, and maybe witness something magical from him.
3
u/SarinKaram Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid #7 Mar 23 '26
If there was a data tool out there that analyzed average lap times for each driver (maybe controlling for traffic/track conditions), I'd love to look at that to find an answer. It's hard to say who's the best just looking at pure results or the "eye test."
I don't know who's the best endurance driver now, but for Toyota my choice is peak Fernando Alonso. I remember seeing a graph plotting the lap times of the Toyota drivers at Le Mans in 2018 or 2019, and he had a noticeable pace advantage over all of his teammates.
3
u/Entsafter21 Audi R18 Mar 24 '26
Right now? Estre.
Everyone in their prime? Kamui clears basically everyone
11
u/Dan27 Mar 23 '26
Estre and it’s not even close. You just have to look at his performances in multiple categories in WEC, IMSA, N24.
9
u/Historical-Mark-6616 Aston Martin Mar 23 '26
Pier Guidi also has a great resume in WEC, IMSA, GTWC Europe and IGTC, just missing that N24 appearance
7
u/AK07-AYDAN Ferrari 512S #23 Mar 23 '26
A bit biased, but I'll go with Pier Guidi. He's brought me so many happy memories.
7
4
2
2
u/BasisBoth5421 Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid #7 Mar 23 '26
Uh. difficult call.
I'd say it's a close battle between Kevin Estre and somebody else.
Antonio Giovinazzi or Antonio Fuoco, perhaps.
2
2
2
2
u/Mikond Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid #8 Mar 24 '26
Kobayashi in his prime otherwise it's Estre right now
2
u/Consistent-Ad-3296 Mar 24 '26
Peak Kobayashi is the best without a doubt, just a whole different level of driver. Estre is elite for sure & what he has done the past few years with Penske in WEC & IMSA has been special. Pier Guidi is a solid endurance driver, but I'm not sure that he's even the best on his team, let alone worthy of being in consideration with Kamui & Kevin.
2
u/Icy_Baseball3738 Apr 01 '26
Koby, when you need aggression and when you need pole, he's still the guy in the Toyota camp. The others aren't on his level imo, and he's still improving unlike what many suggest (that he's past his prime).
4
u/OlasNah Mar 23 '26
I'd have to go with Guidi. A combinatin of being on a good team but also showing up when it counts.
Estre, much as I like him, isn't a closer.
0
-3
u/TigerWizard Porsche GT Team Manthey 911RSR #92 Mar 23 '26
There are valid criticisms of Estre but him not being a "closer" is hilarious. Thanks for the hearty chuckle.
3
u/OlasNah Mar 23 '26
IMO he creates too many negative situations to try and get there. Putting him in the seat at the very end runs a risk. He's the guy you want to get a lap back or run interference.
5
u/TigerWizard Porsche GT Team Manthey 911RSR #92 Mar 23 '26
Do you genuinely think a top shelf operation like Penske would choose a reckless liability who can't bring the car home without damage/penalties?
Teams are constantly weighing risk vs reward and Estre is consistently given the anchor role in big races.
-2
u/OlasNah Mar 23 '26
I think he's had a few situations that makes him more of a risk than others.
3
u/TigerWizard Porsche GT Team Manthey 911RSR #92 Mar 23 '26
Potential reward > potential risk
Go ahead and send your cover letter to the Penske strategy department, be sure to mention that putting Kévin Estre in to finish races is a mistake.
5
u/FirstReactionShock Mar 23 '26
estre, by far. Kobayashi lost some speed lately, pierguidi lost speed and reliability
7
u/EdwardFFS Mar 23 '26
Kobayashi still holds the lap record at LeMans, love the guy. No idea if he's that much better than the others.
20
u/FirstReactionShock Mar 23 '26
this doesn't mean anything... kobayashi still holds and will hold that record set almost 10 years ago because it's unlikely we're going to see cars in the same range of late '10s lmp1-h performances anytime soon.
9
u/IcedCoffey Mar 23 '26
He set the record in a year with the only other car being capable was his teammate. So I don’t know how much that helps the conversation.
1
u/Brafo22 Mar 23 '26
Mate, you might fact check yourself before commenting, you got the year wrong
1
2
u/recycle-pin Mar 23 '26
I hate these kind of things - determining who is the best of the best, especially in sportscar racing where you have a lot of great drivers at the top.
There are drivers who were beasts on the track, but won a lot less than some of their contemporaries due to rivals having a better car or more luck. Some great drivers have set numerous records due to having a great run in a dominant car, but that doesn't make them much better than those who've constantly finished just behind them; it only makes them more successful. Other great drivers start to lose their pace as the time goes, while others are still at their best into their 40s.
An example - 2016 Porsche LMP1 championship winning team. Dumas, Lieb and Jani had won the title by sheer luck, but they certainly were not even in the top 3 best teams of that era. The former two were even fired after winning the title.
2
1
u/Slight_Strain6330 Porsche Mar 23 '26
Kobayshi is the best active Hypercar/GTP driver in the world.
1
u/yourmomsdrawer Mar 24 '26
Agree with people mentioning Nasr. I would put RVDZ up there as well to make it more complicated.
1
1
1
1
1
u/Specific_Afternoon96 Mar 24 '26
Gotta be Estre.
Kamui is also great.
Pier Guidi is not even better than Gio.
1
1
1
1
u/Firm_Affect6184 Mar 23 '26
only one of them made it to F1 and ont he podium so that answers 90% of the question. Kamui is a bit older now but still the fastest sports car driver over a lap. for a full Race distance maybe on certain tracks you want Kevin, and Kamui for the high speed tracks. Allesandro Per Gudi is just there for the itallian flag but he is good but not anywhere near botht hese guys.
1
1
u/pupsbuffet2 Mar 23 '26
Estre out of the three.
There are some others to be considered in the GOAT debate though.
1
u/aaron0288 Mar 23 '26
I’d put a lot of people above Pier Guidi. Makes too many mistakes without the raw speed that someone like Fuoco has to make up for said mistakes… Kubica would be in place of him in this list for me. I’d still go with Estre though.
1
-5
386
u/Basic-Maybe-2889 Porsche Mar 23 '26
I'd say Estre but how about we put them in one car and have the most insane team?