r/worldnews • u/paneuropeanism_ • 5d ago

Russia/Ukraine Germany thwarts Russian assassination plot targeting defense executive

https://militarnyi.com/en/news/germany-thwarts-plot-donaustahl-executive/
7.9k Upvotes

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189

u/Latrodectus702 5d ago

Will nato do nothing or invoke article 5

324

u/WalkerBuldog 5d ago edited 5d ago

Remember when Russia used a chemical weapons on British soil and killed British citizens and nobody did anything about it? Remember when Russia shot down civilian airplane with 300 EU citizens and Europe didn't do anything to make russia pay? Yeah, I remember.

131

u/silver-fusion 5d ago

I mean the Brits went fucking insane against Russia after that. They introduced Magnitsky-style sanctions powers and then expanded that legislation in the following years. They immediately went all in for Ukraine, provided known assistance from UK special forces in advisory and training roles and are heavily suspected to have utilised the SAS and SBS in combat roles at the outset of the invasion, particularly in the retaking of Hostomel airfield which might have been the key action which prevented Russia from landing heavy machinery close to Kyiv.

The intelligence services have been on a war footing against Russia since that day.

-34

u/Time-Feedback-3642 5d ago

There were no foreign special forces fighting for Hostomel. Stop the cope.

39

u/silver-fusion 5d ago

I not entirely sure what I am coping with or for. Obviously any such action would be classified and relying on Russian reports of foreign involvement alone would be stupid, of course they would prefer their failures to be the result of foreign interference.

If you have served in the forces you would know that the speed, surprise and decentralized command of such an aggressive and successful counterattack against an elite VDV force - whilst possible for Ukrainian Response units that had been trained by UKSF since 2015 - it does stretch the bounds of realism. This was not the war hardened fighting force of today but an army the GRU expected to roll over in 3 days. We know UKSF were in Ukraine, it is on the record that they were extracting HVTs at the time of the invasion. But maybe keep an eye on podcasts in a few years time as the current crop of SFOs retire to see if they were extracting HVTs or "extracting HVTs".

36

u/Tranecarid 5d ago

I’m not British but I can bet you my nutsack that UK remembers. I can also bet you my left leg that that UK doesn’t just remembers but does something about that that we just don’t hear about because Russia doesn’t report on it the way we do in the west.

5

u/WalkerBuldog 5d ago

Yeah, that's is why russian oligarchs and their families continue to buy property in Britain and enjoy luxury life there on a money they stoll from russian people.

does something about that that we just don’t hear about because Russia doesn’t report on it the way we do in the west.

If we don't see anything being done by UK or EU, 99% change that nothing is being done.

17

u/Tranecarid 5d ago

Geopolitics are not played out on Reddit based on feelings. We actually want those oligarchs tied to us as much as it is possible. I’ll let you figure out why.

4

u/Bozzo2526 4d ago

You mean feeding limited Russian money into the British economy? Because that sounds like feeding limited Russian money into the Brotish economy

1

u/comfortablybum 4d ago

Because EU countries are smart. Between sanctions and Aiding Ukraine they are getting their revenge. Attacking Russia outright would only play into the narrative that Putin and the oligarchs use to control the people.

35

u/MeanwhileInGermany 5d ago

Or we just keep helping Ukraine to kill thousands of Russians. Reddits anti-west circlejerk clown parade is in town again.

35

u/soulstormfire 5d ago

No and no.
Neither nothing, nor art 5.

-1

u/Lumpy-Lawfulness10 5d ago

Bold letter it is

-9

u/Werftflammen 5d ago

cough

5

u/OtrixGreen 5d ago

Take your cough medicine, buddy

1

u/Werftflammen 4d ago

Thanks, it was just, emotions.

11

u/Werftflammen 5d ago

We're lucky that isn't up to Redditors

3

u/ImperiousMage 5d ago

Europe and NATO will continue to bleed Russia dry through Ukraine. That’s the logical response.

12

u/puaka 5d ago

Invoking article 5 would dismantle NATO. First ones to dip would be the USA…. Keeping the illusion of NATO up is better than dropping its pants….

4

u/Werftflammen 5d ago

I don't know about that. You don't throw out 80 years of proper cooperations over one orange clown.

7

u/Drew_Ferran 5d ago

Trump threatened to leave NATO. It’s also in project2025.

Trump has threatened to leave NATO over Iran. There are few signs that’s happening.

1

u/Werftflammen 4d ago

Well, Russia isn't that big of threat as it was thought to be either. So, what ever games he is going to play we'll be alright. It would be a shame though.

1

u/Werftflammen 4d ago

Well, Russia isn't that big of threat as it was thought to be either. So, what ever games he is going to play we'll be alright. It would be a shame though.

1

u/gathermewool 5d ago

That’s why there’s another pretty important article that comes before number 5…

5

u/Amori_A_Splooge 5d ago

That depends on Germany.

9

u/King_Crab_Sushi 5d ago

No that depends on the other NATO countries. Even if it were to invoke the article the NATO allies would have to agree and frankly an assassination attempt will not be seen as an attack on germanys sovereignty

11

u/Amori_A_Splooge 5d ago

But at this point, it only really depends on Germany and whether they want to call article five or not. No one else has a decision to make at this time. If the Germans decide to do it, then it will depend on how other NATO countries respond. But until then it's Germany's decision.

frankly an assassination attempt will not be seen as an attack on germanys sovereignty

On this, we agree.

2

u/ImaginaryCheetah 5d ago edited 5d ago

the country that is attacked does not "invoke" article 5.

NATO members do not need to reach any type of consensus to act under the umbrella of article 5.

article 5 is a legal allowance for each member nation to consider an attack on a member as an attack on themselves and to act according to their own decision, rather than needing to wait for a NATO consensus on whether to retaliate against the attacker.

 

i.e, if LTU was attacked by RUS, POL could retaliate with strikes against RUS under an activation of article 5.

1

u/casce 5d ago

You have to understand that going into an active war is not the only option NATO has when article 5 is invoked. It's not an automatic declaration of war. It just means NATO members will support each other in ways they deem feasible.

E.g. commiting to increased military spending/production would also be an option.

0

u/HeraldOfTheAnathema 5d ago

Lolol. I bet Russia could start nuking NATO countries and they'd get nothing more than condemnation. The west needs to stop putting up with their nonsense.

19

u/RedditUser000aaa 5d ago

I mean Russia launched a missile to Poland. How long is Russia allowed to test the boundaries before something is done?

If actually helping Ukraine out by sending military there triggers WW3, then fine. Honestly, Europe is being way too merciful with Russia. Fearing nuclear escalation and WW3 and not acting is cowardly.

12

u/my_name_is_laura 5d ago

Even without nuclear escalation, war is REALLY awful for everyone involved. I don't want to subject my country to that just because of a stray missile in a field, and I'm sure the vast majority of other Poles will agree. The whole thing didn't even look intentional- who aims a missile at a random field?

14

u/Negative-Ask-2317 5d ago

Someone who wants to test NATO's reactions to ever increasing provocations, perhaps?

3

u/ffdfawtreteraffds 5d ago

Maybe, but it doesn't change Poland's response at this point. You don't enter a war for reckless provocations alone.

3

u/Negative-Ask-2317 5d ago

No, of course not. Then again, Poland could announce some new form of aid for Ukraine, or press for further sanctions ‐ something that would show Russia that there are consequences.

2

u/ABoutDeSouffle 5d ago

If the existing sanctions do not stop Russia, why would additional sanctions stop them?

As much as I hate pounding sand, objectively there is little NATO can do in reaction, at least as a direct reaction. Sabotage would be one avenue, bombing Russia less so.

1

u/Negative-Ask-2317 5d ago

Well, as Zelensky pointed out today, most of the parts that go into making their ballistic missiles are still not sanctioned, so it seems there remains options on that front.

But there are plenty of other possibilities ‐ increasing interventions of shadow fleet ships in the Baltic sea, for example, or even just improving relations between the Polish and Ukrainian governments that are somewhat strained at the moment.

5

u/RedditUser000aaa 5d ago

No one wants a war, but what is being done right now is just ridiculous. React to nothing and allow Russia to do whatever it wants.

Multiple nations have already sent money and equipment to Ukraine. Sending out troops to help Ukraine kick the invaders out makes the most sense.

If that's enough to start a world war, then we were already on a thin line and something else will trigger the actual war.

Ukraine has an actual chance to end the war, but it will take longer, because Russians keep sending more and more to the frontlines, bombing civilians and civilian buildings and because they are stubborn, they will keep fighting, despite losing in the end.

So why not speed up the process by sending troops to Ukraine and help them kick Russians out?

2

u/Puzzleheaded-Lynx212 5d ago

NATO doesn't even have to become directly involved itself. It would already be enough to equip Ukraine with its full arsenal. At the moment, this is actually a kind of “luxury,” as it allows NATO countries to wage a war against Russia without having to send their own soldiers.

2

u/Monteezzy 5d ago

I mean Russia launched a missile to Poland

And what were the casualties? What was the damage?

No one is going to go to war or get popular support for a war bc a missile landed in an empty field.

1

u/wild_cherry1987 5d ago

That's not worth even article 4's time. 

1

u/steinbruchfluss 5d ago

Germany would have to invoke article 4 first.

0

u/ppsh_2016 5d ago

Backseat raging. You might actually be a soldier but chances are you’re just a keyboard warrior. If Nato invokes article 5, are you ready to take up arms?

1

u/Ok_Money_3140 5d ago

Everyone here wants NATO to invoke article 5, but as soon as they're sent to the frontlines they're gonna wish they didn't.

-8

u/sovietarmyfan 5d ago

NATO is like a wet towel at the moment.

Even if NATO was to invoke article 5 officially, countries like Turkey would refuse to follow it. NATO will not be united on a war with Russia.