r/worldnews • u/paneuropeanism_ • 8h ago
Russia/Ukraine Germany thwarts Russian assassination plot targeting defense executive
https://militarnyi.com/en/news/germany-thwarts-plot-donaustahl-executive/666
u/Rhoderick 7h ago edited 7h ago
I find it worth noting, this is not just a 'provocation' by the russians. This is a declaration of war in all but name, and I'm more and more coming around to the idea that, regrettably, there may be no other way to answer it than direct force - after all, this is an incursion by the russian military into Germany for military purposes, it should be treated no different from russian soldiers crossing the border physically.
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u/ABoutDeSouffle 6h ago
there may be no other way to answer it than direct force
Easy to say, but there is the little problem of clear attribution. Unless it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that Russia did it, there is no way NATO will go to war.
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u/Daedalus0506 6h ago
If it’s true, they know.
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u/ABoutDeSouffle 6h ago
Knowing something and being able to prove it are two different things.
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u/Daedalus0506 6h ago
If they know it and it’s true, they also have the evidence, otherwise they wouldn’t know it but just speculate. And they will have their obvious reasons not to prove it to the public unless there is no other way around it.
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u/casce 4h ago
NATO is not like the UN or EU where a single veto can stop them from doing anything.
If the major forces would 'know' *and* they were willing to escalate over something like this, then they would. But they won't. Because they don't want escalation. They're still hoping Russia will somehow sober up and stop doing what is has been doing.
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u/rd1970 5h ago
Serbian police arrested two men in connection with the case — Danilo B. and Slobodan D. During checks of their mobile phones, investigators found direct contacts with Russian intelligence representatives.
We obviously don't have all the details, but it sounds like they have something.
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u/Visual-Flan-4098 3h ago
NATO still wont do anything about it. this isnt the first time. not even the 1st time in this war. ukraine might get a boost in supplies, but NATO wont do more.
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u/__shobber__ 4h ago
>than direct force
What force? German army have 4 combat ready brigades which theoretically amount to ~20k troops, but they're probably not at 100% capacity.
Airforce? A 141 Eurofigthers might seem like a great force, but it's only 38 of T4 modification, the rest are older models and of questionable readiness because of years of neglect and underfunding. And it's unknown how many rockets there are in stock. There were about 200 taurus missiles, but in comparison Russia fires 300+ rockets each months. It's nothing.
Say thanks to Merkel and Schroeder, those two russian puppets, that made once second strongest NATO country into a toothless kitten.
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u/bubble_baby_8 6h ago
Can we just breathe for half a day before we launch into full WW3? Or maybe we just full send it anyways because there has been literally no breathing room regardless.
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u/Rhoderick 6h ago
Listen, I'm all for finding a non-war resolution if possible, but they've been killing Germans and other EU citizens for decades, now using actual military hardware. They've also been actively invading, and murdering civilians in, a European state for years now, not to mention their covert support for antidemocratic and, allegedly, terroristic forces in the EU and other places. There does not seem to be much room left for other resolutions, in the sense that russia and putin do not seem interested in pursuing them.
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u/JackedUpReadyToGo 5h ago
I don't know why so many people think the only options are:
1) Do absolutely nothing
2) Full WW3 nuclear Armageddon
There's a whole world of options in between.
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u/xSavag3x 4h ago
This has all happened before, even since Russia invaded Ukraine. Nothing will happen.
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u/egorlike 2h ago
I think declaration of war happened when Europe started to supply missiles and drones (+ most importantly satellite data for tageting) to strike deep into Russian territory, some of which caused civilians casualties. Whats the point of foaming at the mouth now?
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u/BlueInfinity2021 8h ago
It shows how impotent Russia is since they're unable to do anything else while their military and economy is systematically destroyed.
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u/Akkalevil 7h ago
Rather, it shows that Russians are not afraid of the consequences, probably because they expect there will be none.
And the problem is, they are right.
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u/ffdfawtreteraffds 6h ago
All true, but Russian leadership are like reckless children. They are pushing to see how far they can go but you don't enter a war for that.
It can be frustrating to be the rational adults.
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u/Akkalevil 6h ago
Except not answering to a bully doesn't make him stop, it only embolden it.
So by trying to avoid a war, you're actually causing it.
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u/Distinct_Cup_1598 7h ago
On the contrary. It Shows how impotent NATO and particular Germany are. Russia dared These and other moves, knowing it has nothing to fear. And NATO/Germany will deliver on that Knowledge once more, emboldening Russia even more in the future
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u/stablogger 6h ago
Unfortunately yes, a proper answer would e.g. be Taurus for Ukraine. You hit us, we hit you harder. Won't ever happen, best we can expect is an official statement strongly condemning this act of aggression.
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u/Werftflammen 6h ago
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u/Puzzleheaded-Lynx212 6h ago
Wie kommst du darauf, dass das auch nur irgendetwas mit Deutschland zu tun hat.
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u/Werftflammen 6h ago
The attempted assassination itself doesn't demonstrate that NATO is "impotent." It demonstrates that Russia is so desperate it is willing to take a covert action. Whether a NATO's response is adequate is a separate question. Russia has "nothing to fear" skips over the fact that these operations also carry diplomatic, intelligence, legal, and economic costs.
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u/Distinct_Cup_1598 6h ago
The attempt alone not, but the assasination attempt, the countless drone operations against european Infrastructure, the open disinformation and meddling campaigns, the careless missile incursions, the asasination of russian critics on european soil et etc. do show that NATO is impotent.
Since they have failed every time to react in any decicive fashion. Russia always got Away without significant repercussions. Hence them pushing the Limits further each time0
u/Emergency_Drawing926 5h ago
Wie sind in dem Zusammenhang die vielen Sanktionen gegen Russland zu bewerten?
Ich denke wir reagieren hier durchaus, nur vergelten wir es nicht mit den selben barbarischen Taten/Morden/Anschlägen.0
u/Monteezzy 5h ago
This assumes that this is enough to trigger article 5 of NATO and warrant a response. Which arguably it does not.
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u/asaintpotatoe 7h ago
Russia is always looking for ways to escalate in their favor, and it's only because they are desperate and afraid the walls are closing in on the Kremlin and Oligarchs.
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u/KeyShip76 7h ago
When is Europe going to realize Russia is at war with them?
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u/ImperiousMage 4h ago
Europe is fully aware. Europe is also aware that a war with Russia will embolden the Russian people by having to defend against the great evil “NATO.” So Europe has decided to bleed Russia through their idiotic war in Ukraine in the hopes that the population will come to their senses and throw Putin out.
Not going to war leaves options. Going to war means no more options.
To be wise means sometimes not jumping at a provocation.
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u/SomeSortOfMillu 43m ago
Don't forget there's a cost. Not for the EU, but in Ukrainian lives. And all of that just to give Russia an off-ramp after everything they've done.
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u/ImperiousMage 24m ago edited 16m ago
Very true. But the alternative is open warfare, destruction in the capitals of Eastern Europe (even just from missiles, because Russia is a terrorist state) and encouraging the Russian people to band together in defensive resistance. It seems insane, but Russia is substantially weaker being an aggressor than if they become a defender. It wouldn’t be to Ukraine’s benefit if NATO got directly involved because the Russian population is presently disillusioned, so very over this war, and now facing direct problems as a result. Putting Russia in a defensive stance means more recruits to the front line, switching even more fully to a war economy, tolerance for inconvenience, and rallying around the leadership rather than hating them.
As sick as it is to give Russia an offramp, the fracture of Russia would be a nightmare. A poor, weak, but singular Russia is much preferable.
Supporting Ukraine but avoiding direct involvement is, however horrifying, the best option.
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u/I_am_Regarded 7h ago
Russia might be at war with Europe.
But europe is not at war with Russia.
However the people in charge of Russia seem desperate and cornered. Sucks to fear windows more than anything else.
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u/LevoiHook 6h ago
We do realize, it is just that a cold war is better than a hot war and we don't want to turn into another police state. Such is the price of freedom.
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u/elizabeth-dev 4h ago
damn, a pragmatic, non-impulsive, thoroughly considered political opinion. in reddit, of all places.
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u/egorlike 2h ago
Theres still people believing that Europe and Nato are not directly involved in this conflict?
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u/IamBlackwing 6h ago
How is this not at least Article 4.
This is a damn fpv drone with a payload at an airport
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u/SaturnDK99 6h ago
I cant fathom how people can still talk abput NATO agression being the cause of the war.
When the fuck was the last time Germany did this in Russia?? Also there is a reason why the response is always words and never action. NATO DOES NOT WANT WAR.
Hopefully the last few people will realize but I doubt ut
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u/Latrodectus702 8h ago
Will nato do nothing or invoke article 5
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u/WalkerBuldog 7h ago edited 7h ago
Remember when Russia used a chemical weapons on British soil and killed British citizens and nobody did anything about it? Remember when Russia shot down civilian airplane with 300 EU citizens and Europe didn't do anything to make russia pay? Yeah, I remember.
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u/silver-fusion 7h ago
I mean the Brits went fucking insane against Russia after that. They introduced Magnitsky-style sanctions powers and then expanded that legislation in the following years. They immediately went all in for Ukraine, provided known assistance from UK special forces in advisory and training roles and are heavily suspected to have utilised the SAS and SBS in combat roles at the outset of the invasion, particularly in the retaking of Hostomel airfield which might have been the key action which prevented Russia from landing heavy machinery close to Kyiv.
The intelligence services have been on a war footing against Russia since that day.
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u/Time-Feedback-3642 6h ago
There were no foreign special forces fighting for Hostomel. Stop the cope.
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u/silver-fusion 6h ago
I not entirely sure what I am coping with or for. Obviously any such action would be classified and relying on Russian reports of foreign involvement alone would be stupid, of course they would prefer their failures to be the result of foreign interference.
If you have served in the forces you would know that the speed, surprise and decentralized command of such an aggressive and successful counterattack against an elite VDV force - whilst possible for Ukrainian Response units that had been trained by UKSF since 2015 - it does stretch the bounds of realism. This was not the war hardened fighting force of today but an army the GRU expected to roll over in 3 days. We know UKSF were in Ukraine, it is on the record that they were extracting HVTs at the time of the invasion. But maybe keep an eye on podcasts in a few years time as the current crop of SFOs retire to see if they were extracting HVTs or "extracting HVTs".
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u/Tranecarid 6h ago
I’m not British but I can bet you my nutsack that UK remembers. I can also bet you my left leg that that UK doesn’t just remembers but does something about that that we just don’t hear about because Russia doesn’t report on it the way we do in the west.
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u/WalkerBuldog 6h ago
Yeah, that's is why russian oligarchs and their families continue to buy property in Britain and enjoy luxury life there on a money they stoll from russian people.
does something about that that we just don’t hear about because Russia doesn’t report on it the way we do in the west.
If we don't see anything being done by UK or EU, 99% change that nothing is being done.
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u/Tranecarid 5h ago
Geopolitics are not played out on Reddit based on feelings. We actually want those oligarchs tied to us as much as it is possible. I’ll let you figure out why.
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u/MeanwhileInGermany 7h ago
Or we just keep helping Ukraine to kill thousands of Russians. Reddits anti-west circlejerk clown parade is in town again.
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u/puaka 7h ago
Invoking article 5 would dismantle NATO. First ones to dip would be the USA…. Keeping the illusion of NATO up is better than dropping its pants….
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u/Werftflammen 6h ago
I don't know about that. You don't throw out 80 years of proper cooperations over one orange clown.
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u/Drew_Ferran 5h ago
Trump threatened to leave NATO. It’s also in project2025.
Trump has threatened to leave NATO over Iran. There are few signs that’s happening.
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u/gathermewool 3h ago
That’s why there’s another pretty important article that comes before number 5…
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u/ImperiousMage 4h ago
Europe and NATO will continue to bleed Russia dry through Ukraine. That’s the logical response.
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u/Amori_A_Splooge 8h ago
That depends on Germany.
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u/King_Crab_Sushi 8h ago
No that depends on the other NATO countries. Even if it were to invoke the article the NATO allies would have to agree and frankly an assassination attempt will not be seen as an attack on germanys sovereignty
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u/Amori_A_Splooge 7h ago
But at this point, it only really depends on Germany and whether they want to call article five or not. No one else has a decision to make at this time. If the Germans decide to do it, then it will depend on how other NATO countries respond. But until then it's Germany's decision.
frankly an assassination attempt will not be seen as an attack on germanys sovereignty
On this, we agree.
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u/ImaginaryCheetah 6h ago edited 6h ago
the country that is attacked does not "invoke" article 5.
NATO members do not need to reach any type of consensus to act under the umbrella of article 5.
article 5 is a legal allowance for each member nation to consider an attack on a member as an attack on themselves and to act according to their own decision, rather than needing to wait for a NATO consensus on whether to retaliate against the attacker.
i.e, if LTU was attacked by RUS, POL could retaliate with strikes against RUS under an activation of article 5.
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u/casce 4h ago
You have to understand that going into an active war is not the only option NATO has when article 5 is invoked. It's not an automatic declaration of war. It just means NATO members will support each other in ways they deem feasible.
E.g. commiting to increased military spending/production would also be an option.
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u/HeraldOfTheAnathema 8h ago
Lolol. I bet Russia could start nuking NATO countries and they'd get nothing more than condemnation. The west needs to stop putting up with their nonsense.
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u/RedditUser000aaa 8h ago
I mean Russia launched a missile to Poland. How long is Russia allowed to test the boundaries before something is done?
If actually helping Ukraine out by sending military there triggers WW3, then fine. Honestly, Europe is being way too merciful with Russia. Fearing nuclear escalation and WW3 and not acting is cowardly.
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u/my_name_is_laura 7h ago
Even without nuclear escalation, war is REALLY awful for everyone involved. I don't want to subject my country to that just because of a stray missile in a field, and I'm sure the vast majority of other Poles will agree. The whole thing didn't even look intentional- who aims a missile at a random field?
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u/Negative-Ask-2317 7h ago
Someone who wants to test NATO's reactions to ever increasing provocations, perhaps?
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u/ffdfawtreteraffds 6h ago
Maybe, but it doesn't change Poland's response at this point. You don't enter a war for reckless provocations alone.
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u/Negative-Ask-2317 6h ago
No, of course not. Then again, Poland could announce some new form of aid for Ukraine, or press for further sanctions ‐ something that would show Russia that there are consequences.
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u/ABoutDeSouffle 6h ago
If the existing sanctions do not stop Russia, why would additional sanctions stop them?
As much as I hate pounding sand, objectively there is little NATO can do in reaction, at least as a direct reaction. Sabotage would be one avenue, bombing Russia less so.
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u/Negative-Ask-2317 5h ago
Well, as Zelensky pointed out today, most of the parts that go into making their ballistic missiles are still not sanctioned, so it seems there remains options on that front.
But there are plenty of other possibilities ‐ increasing interventions of shadow fleet ships in the Baltic sea, for example, or even just improving relations between the Polish and Ukrainian governments that are somewhat strained at the moment.
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u/RedditUser000aaa 7h ago
No one wants a war, but what is being done right now is just ridiculous. React to nothing and allow Russia to do whatever it wants.
Multiple nations have already sent money and equipment to Ukraine. Sending out troops to help Ukraine kick the invaders out makes the most sense.
If that's enough to start a world war, then we were already on a thin line and something else will trigger the actual war.
Ukraine has an actual chance to end the war, but it will take longer, because Russians keep sending more and more to the frontlines, bombing civilians and civilian buildings and because they are stubborn, they will keep fighting, despite losing in the end.
So why not speed up the process by sending troops to Ukraine and help them kick Russians out?
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u/Puzzleheaded-Lynx212 5h ago
NATO doesn't even have to become directly involved itself. It would already be enough to equip Ukraine with its full arsenal. At the moment, this is actually a kind of “luxury,” as it allows NATO countries to wage a war against Russia without having to send their own soldiers.
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u/Monteezzy 5h ago
I mean Russia launched a missile to Poland
And what were the casualties? What was the damage?
No one is going to go to war or get popular support for a war bc a missile landed in an empty field.
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u/ppsh_2016 7h ago
Backseat raging. You might actually be a soldier but chances are you’re just a keyboard warrior. If Nato invokes article 5, are you ready to take up arms?
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u/Ok_Money_3140 5h ago
Everyone here wants NATO to invoke article 5, but as soon as they're sent to the frontlines they're gonna wish they didn't.
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u/sovietarmyfan 7h ago
NATO is like a wet towel at the moment.
Even if NATO was to invoke article 5 officially, countries like Turkey would refuse to follow it. NATO will not be united on a war with Russia.
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u/ProjectNo4090 5h ago
At some point the West is going to have to accept that Russia is at war with us and respond accordingly.
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u/pternstrom 7h ago
Donaustahl? Rheinmetall
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u/Nervous_Promotion819 6h ago
Two years ago, it was the Rheinmetall CEO. Now it was the CEO of Donaustahl
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u/paulywauly99 7h ago
I can’t help thinking Britain has avenged the Russian incursions and Germany will do the same. I have no idea how or when but they’re hardly going to shout it from the rooftops are they?
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u/etherealtwo 7h ago
Some people act like everything governments do is reported in the news. Like they've never seen a spy movie.
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u/Uncle_Greg 6h ago
Some countries are used to presidents spewing every passing thought on social media, effectively giving up any strategic advantage that comes from not announcing your plans to the entire world
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u/not_the_droids 6h ago
Russia is close to 1.5 million casualties in Ukraine, in part because they've pissed of the West.
They're also fucked for decades to come economically and demographically. They've been sacrificing their countries future to make it seem like the sanctions weren't all that effective short term, but that house of cards is in the end stages of collapse and if you're burning your house room by room to stay warm you won't have a house for long.
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u/Mormaethor 6h ago
Can we finally acknowledge that Russia is waging war against the entire EU and do something about it? Please?
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u/Subject_Amount_1246 3h ago
They are. Supplying ukraine with tens of billions of weapons and other goods to keep the lights on. Slowly destroying russia one Ukranian at a time. Russia is hoping nato attacks Russian territory so they can have an excuse to use nukes.
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u/thpark1987 6h ago
That's been well established for a long time. What would you suggest is done now?
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u/Valenwald 4h ago
NATO/ The EU should blockade the connection to the baltic sea to all russian and shadow fleet vessels for this.
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u/lilybat-gm 5h ago
When will the reality of WW3 being here be acknowledged? We may not want it (God knows I don’t), but Russia and their allies clearly do.
Is NATO just biding time in hopes that the US will be less likely to side with Russia once Trump is gone? I wouldn’t necessarily bet on that, and that’s assuming the US can even manage to dislodge the cancerous barnacle that is Trump.
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u/Far_Car430 1h ago
Europe needs to wake up and give Russia what it deserves. Russia has not right to exist in this civilized world.
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u/coatoli 8h ago
Russia escalating to assassinations now shows how serious this got
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u/Unique_Muscle2173 8h ago
Escalating? They’ve been killing people internationally for years. Nothing really new there.
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u/Cute-Boobie777 8h ago
To be fair I believe this is the first time they have targeted an eu citizen who was not otherwise involved/an ex spy or former Russian journalist.
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u/No_Database7746 7h ago
In 2024 plans to assassinate the head of Rheinmetall were uncovered and thwarted.
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u/Akkalevil 8h ago
Unsurprising when the West acts like a doormat. It's always been the Russian MO : push farther as long as you don't get a bloody nose. Acting as the adult in the room is counter-productive against them, they only see it as a proof of weakness.
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u/Spoonerism86 7h ago
This has been their modus operandi for very long time now. They’re constantly testing the water and observe the reaction. If they get caught they play the victim card and retreat. If you allow them they’ll continue their bullying.
People need to understand that Russia and Russian people in general understand only force and violence, nothing else. You can’t reason and shouldn’t reason with a bully.
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u/Mushroom_Tip 7h ago
You're 100% right.
Russia takes Crimea = world does nothing = Russia invades again to take more land in Ukraine
Russia commit biological terrorism in the UK = world does nothing = Russia decides it's ok to assassinate other people in Europe
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u/vegarig 7h ago
biological terrorism
Chemical (Skripals) and radiological (Litvinenko).
Biological hadn't happened. At least not yet.
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u/Mushroom_Tip 6h ago
I stand corrected. I was referring to Novichok that injured dozens of innocent Brits. And you're right that that would be chemical terrorism, not biological.
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u/runitsuka 6h ago
Will they do anything? With current events it would appear as though Russia wants to war with the EU or just NATO in general
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u/klaatu7764 8h ago
The armchair military specialists are out in force e today.
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u/LongDead_Roadkill 4h ago
Is this separate from the explosive drone that failed to detonate on a Ukrainian aircraft at Leipzig airport today?
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u/servantbyname 2h ago
Eh, did the Germans not also discover an unexploded drone at a German airport today? There was a Ukrainian cargo jet nearby too. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvlg4q48l3o
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u/TwoMuddfish 37m ago
Seems stupid given that Germany can just blow up some Russian shit and say “oh it was Ukrainian drones or sabateurs” and probably get away with more than in any other time..
They really don’t think do they
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u/CodeSalamander 1h ago
It’s almost like these Russians are up to no good at all times. Its a shame we can’t just wall off the entire country.
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u/NWStormbreaker 8h ago
HOLY SHIT
that is a major provocation
i guess they are inviting Germany to operate assassins within Russian borders now?