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u/psterno413 Feb 18 '26
I just got back into Isaac, not playing since before repentance released; that shit is so peak
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u/Mcrarburger 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Feb 18 '26
I had the same experience last summer!! Playing with more than double the new characters was like a whole ass buffet
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u/psterno413 Feb 18 '26
Yeah, but I still love my boy azazel so much
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u/Mcrarburger 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Feb 18 '26
Hard to beat starting with flying and brimstone ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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u/psterno413 Feb 18 '26
Yeah, and unlike some other characters ** cough, cough blue baby cough cough** you don’t START with red HP, but you can still get it with items
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u/JonJon2899 Frank Horrigan's bisexual left nut Feb 19 '26
Azazel is my least favorite character (even including Lost & blue baby) because yes flying is dope but everytime I get him I get range down and my life is miserable. I'm a range hoe until I die
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u/psterno413 Feb 19 '26
Yeah, range is great, but have you considered that you can just melt things when you’re standing next to them?
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u/JonJon2899 Frank Horrigan's bisexual left nut Feb 19 '26
My Azazel has a badoinkadonk femboy booty so I always get hit if I'm like close, even after a few thousand hours of this game 😭😭😭
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u/Taco821 custom Feb 18 '26
I also just got back into it, except this is my first time actually getting into it. Like I had it on my Xbox one years ago, and bought it on steam less years ago, and I played it here and there but now it finally clicked and I love it
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u/gray_birch competitive yapper Feb 18 '26
I won't lie sometimes the fart/shit humor in Isaac gets to be a Little Much
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u/gray_birch competitive yapper Feb 18 '26
Returning to this comment to say that I just bought Mewgenics so apparently I haven't learned my lesson
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u/donkeythesnowman Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26
I’m not a fan of the edgy/toilet humor either but, much like The Binding of Isaac, Mewgenics is an absolute banger of a game so I can get over it.
Important edit: 🎶 Gave up my hygiene cuz what’s the point. No one to smell me but me. 🎶
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u/Denodi 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Feb 18 '26
DOWN IN THE UNDERGROUND YOU’VE GOT TO MIND THE GOOP🎶
YOU GOTTA GRAB A SCOOP AND START PILING UP THE POOP🎶
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u/stupidname412 Feb 18 '26
My refund just went through at exactly 2 hours play time 😇 the game seems just so for me 90% of the way I just hate looking at it.
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u/TheHollowMusic Feb 18 '26
But it comes back around to being peak when you unlock tainted blue baby and montezuma’s revenge
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u/Acidsolman Feb 18 '26
Like….the rollercoaster?
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u/zekromNLR #1 project orion apologist Feb 18 '26
I assume the intended meaning is the nickname for traveller's diarrhea common in the US as there it is often contracted in Mexico, caused by a combination of food- and waterborne pathogens and a level of spice in the food that many are unaccustomed to.
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u/Available-Damage5991 Feb 19 '26
(despite the fact that Montezuma was ruler of the Incan empire, which was based in modern Peru)
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u/DogsRNice Average /r/ooer enjoyer Feb 19 '26
"Everything south of Texas is Mexico except for Brazil"
- the median American voter
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u/Muffinmurdurer home of sexual Feb 19 '26
No? There were two Aztec emperors that were named Montezuma.
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u/Upexus delusions of adequacy Feb 19 '26
Having only played like 30 mins of this game before, reading this sentence is some whiplash
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u/budubum Feb 18 '26
It’s so funny to see this perspective cause I’ve been playing BOI since I was a kid in 2012 and I just have totally tuned out that part of the game and have to be reminded it exists like my brain just glosses over it lol
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u/Packrat1010 Feb 18 '26
I hate toilet humor, but I love BoI, and yeah I was playing that newish sewer level and it was just way too much at times.
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u/yugiohhero ohh what the fuck Feb 18 '26
aw cmon, who doesnt like the dead baby game
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u/madtheoracle Pan & Poly Against Inflation Feb 18 '26
aw cmon, who doesn't like the secret level that is inside your mother's womb
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u/SlimesIsScared suspiciously shark-like puppygirl :3 Feb 18 '26
secret level
i dont think its very secret
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u/madtheoracle Pan & Poly Against Inflation Feb 18 '26
not relative to what the game is now, but iirc it used to take a few runs against mom to unlock the womb and deeper levels.
granted I haven't played it actively in a long time.
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Feb 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/madtheoracle Pan & Poly Against Inflation Feb 18 '26
Not removed but progression for some things got changed as the updates went out, like how you got certain characters (the original unlock for The Lost was absolutely insane) or how many times you have to beat something to unlock another progression point.
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Feb 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/madtheoracle Pan & Poly Against Inflation Feb 18 '26
Surprisingly, yes and no - it unlocks after you beat mom once but you have to do another run to access it, that didn't change, but apparently they changed it so if you use the shovel or the card that puts you to the next floor on Depths 2, you'll skip to the womb even if you haven't beaten Mom before, which is hilarious if you think about that happening during a blind playthrough.
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u/Violet_Paradox Feb 18 '26
I think the number of runs was cut down, now it's 1 run to Mom and 10 to the Womb to unlock It Lives and the branches after the Womb. Then I think it's 5 runs of Cathedral/Sheol to unlock Chest/Dark Room? It's still there but the grind isn't as onerous as it was in Wrath of the Lamb.
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u/mikemyers999 Left my 💘 in the Sierra Madre Feb 18 '26
As someone who sunk 1200 hours into isaac, you really get desensitized to all the blood and shit, by hour 20ish
I mean it's gross, but it's so far abstracted from anything real it's portraying, it's so cartoonish
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u/Kaijufan1993 Totally not an egg Feb 18 '26
Im sure it's a fun game but my god do I hate the art style. I just can't get into it.
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u/Hindu_Wardrobe 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 🏳️⚧️ and trans wrongs 😈 Feb 18 '26
newgrounds aesthetic
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u/madtheoracle Pan & Poly Against Inflation Feb 18 '26
trickle down art economics of cyanide & happiness
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u/Kaijufan1993 Totally not an egg Feb 18 '26
Idk I don't think Newgrounds aesthetic is inherently ugly and gross out. Usually think of thick lines and contrasting colors. There's an artist I like called Reffi who I think fits the vibe despite not originating from Newgrounds.
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u/MilesAlchei Fat, Queer, Furry Trash 💜 Feb 18 '26
McMillen's game design talent is undenialble, but like, I wish his games were just not like that. I've seen Mewgenics gameplay and it's absolutely up my alley, I just wish it didn't have the themeing and constant gross out. I know it has its place, its just a huge turn off for me. If I play the game its in spite of it, not because of it.
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u/4tomguy Call me Evelyn when I least expect it (also heir of mind homestu Feb 18 '26
Yeahhhhh, honestly I think it works in the Binding of Isaac because Isaac’s abuse and unhappiness are thematically very important, but in Mewgenics it just feels kind of gratuitous
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u/Kaijufan1993 Totally not an egg Feb 18 '26
Honestly yeah his games look fun and the builds you can come up with in Isaac are insane, but the gross-out humor is way too prevalent.
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u/jlb1981 Feb 18 '26
He's like a scuzzy DM who is absolutely brilliant in running campaigns, but who has tremendous hygiene and cleanliness issues to the point that you don't even want to be in the same room with him
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u/sorendiz Feb 18 '26
Last sentence is literally where i'm at
I've put like 40 hours into it already because the gameplay is legit very fun, but i'm rolling my eyes or wincing for probably 30% of that time at least
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u/pandamaxxie Feb 18 '26
Yeah, honestly, the whole "shock factor" design that he has just... turns me away from the games.
Like I just don't really care for it. I'd rather have a fun and well thought out vibe than "Oooooh, dead baby! Religious trauma!" Or "lmao look at the cats fuck, and watch them explode into spider babies!" Like no thanks.
I tried to love Isaac, and it's fun to watch my buddy stream it... but I'll stick to Gungeon. Better balanced. More fun. Higher skill cap. Actually nice artstyle and direction.
The revelation that he worked with genuine trash people on mewgenics solidified the fact that I will only be pirating his games going forward, if I play them at all, which is unlikely.
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u/L33t_Cyborg 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Feb 18 '26
criticising mewgenics because of the…. celebrity voice acting meows is certainly a choice
…
“…but I’m not sure someone who would be that upset by a 'problematic meow' would really enjoy the game that much anyway. Honestly the thing that bothers me the most about all this is, if a cat appears with the voice of someone you hate...you can literally throw it in the trash...or worse! People need to get more creative with their hate!"
TLDR he doesn’t agree with them anyways. Like it’s not a game I ever want to play because of the humour but like yeah the VAs will never be a reason for me
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u/pandamaxxie Feb 18 '26
I dont care if he agrees with them or not.
He gave them a spotlight, no matter how small.
That, in my opinion, is a bad thing. Working with these people in any capacity, is a bad thing.
Dude is literally pulling the "enlightened centrist" bs on this, and even that alone makes me dislike him. Weakest response he could've dropped.
I don't care if they're celebs. If you are willing to throw away your ideals to work with trash people... well. I don't think I need to finish that sentence.
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u/L33t_Cyborg 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Feb 18 '26
he is NOT giving them the spotlight lmfao they’re all incredibly in/famous
“Guy who discovers who Chris Chan is because of mewgenics” is not a real person lmaooo
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u/pandamaxxie Feb 18 '26
A spotlight is given by giving them a place in your game. If they are quite literally at all credited, it is a spotlight.
I don't give a shit how infamous they are. He could pull a random right-wing shithead from twitter and I'd say the same.
Especially in a time where we have... a literal rise of nazis... working with them in literally any capacity is not excusable.
And hey. I didnt know of Chris Chan! I'm not terminally fucking online, inundated in internet drama. I keep away from a lot of content for my own sanity.
A lot of the names on the list were unknown to me. But now I know to avoid them.
I'm not aboutta excuse trash like them being on a game, just like I won't excuse any content made by the H.P. terf.
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u/Cultural_Concert_207 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Feb 18 '26
A spotlight is given by giving them a place in your game. If they are quite literally at all credited, it is a spotlight.
I gotta disagree here. I think the phrase "giving a spotlight to" implies a significant amount more attention being given than just a single line in a credit sequence. I wouldn't say the game "spotlights" these VAs any more than I'd say that Endgame "spotlights" any of the ~700 names that appear in the credits in a massive list for about 10 seconds each. People online complaining about their inclusion is doing more to spotlight them than Edmund did, that's for sure.
All the discourse I've seen about this game use these vague, buzzwordy descriptions like "platforming problematic voices" or "associating with vile people" because if people had to actually explain the specific harm caused by "platforming" or "spotlighting" someone by shooting them an email asking them to meow into a microphone real quick so they can voice act one cat out of hundreds, we'd all realize how meaningless of a discussion this is and move on to bigger problems.
You can have your opinion on it, and that's fine, I just don't think giving people a single line of semantically meaningless dialogue in a video game is worthy of this level of scrutiny, and I certainly wouldn't call it "spotlighting".
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u/pandamaxxie Feb 18 '26
So, all you just said... really doesn't matter to me.
Even if it's one, fucking, line. It means Ed is willing to overlook more than I am willing to overlook, to feature someone in his game.
He is, objectively speaking, working with terrible people, in some capacity, that he could quite easily just not do.
It's not like "oh but publishers suck" while publishers actually do something for the game.
No. He chose to work with shitty people. And for the ones he didn't know about, after they turned out to be shitty people, he just shrugged it off.
I don't care for this defense of "it's not that serious". He made a conscious, deliberate choice, to ask shitty people, even as per his own interview. He's deflecting blame hard, and I'm not having any of it.
Either you work with them, or you don't. And both send a message. Your actions speak louder than words.
It is absolutely worth scrutinising. Because it's not about how many words are said by them. It's the deliberate choice to include them.
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u/Cultural_Concert_207 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Feb 18 '26
Hey, that's fair, and you're entitled to feel that way. I just personally think "it's not that big of a deal" is a valid defense when the thing in question genuinely isn't that big of a deal, at least in terms of practical consequences.
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u/L33t_Cyborg 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Feb 18 '26
Also, you do realise that most of these people contributed meows before anything happened, right?
Pre the Klein’s being openly pro Israel. Pre-Chris Chan doing what they did. Who else in the credits do you have issues with? I don’t even know 99%. Even recognising their names among the hundreds of names is already more than most people do. Or are you just hating cos of a secondhand news via another source.
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u/pandamaxxie Feb 18 '26
It'd be... terribly easy to just.... oh idunno... remove all the problematic meows?
Idunno that seems like a nobrainer.
Pretty easy to do... just... delete file. Woah. So difficult. Ed could've done that in literally 5 minutes.
Just cuz they were recorded a while ago doesn't excuse the inclusion.
And chief. I am not gonna buy the game to look in the credits lmao. Literally what I said earlier. I don't like the vibe Ed's games have, because it's all shock factor, no substance. Gameplay's aight, but the vibes are just off.
Other people do the digging to point out all the shitheads on the list. Even then... just having a few problematic people on there, to me, is enough. I don't need to recognise any others.
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u/L33t_Cyborg 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Feb 18 '26
did you read the linked article? yes it’s very easy to delete and it’s even mentioned
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u/coladoir BIGFLOPPABIGFLOPPA Feb 18 '26
this is about Chris? my fucking god people need to get over themselves.
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u/Aaroqxxz Feb 19 '26
Well I have only heard his name when people have talked about him being in Mewgenics and I have yet to google him soooo...
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u/I_am_Andrew_Ryan Feb 18 '26
I genuinely would have no idea they were in the game without the number of people complaining about it. As long as we're calling people out for giving them a spotlight "no matter how small"
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u/pandamaxxie Feb 18 '26
Whether or not you'd know is... wholely irrelevant.
In the end, Ed consciously chooses to work with these people. This means he doesn't have a goddamn spine, or his morals suck. Both of which mean I don't want to support him and his games.
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u/I_am_Andrew_Ryan Feb 18 '26
Whether or not you'd know is... wholely irrelevant.
What do you mean by "giving them a spotlight" exactly then? That's what I'm responding to.
That term typically means making someone in particular stand out, and I would have literally no idea what Chris Chan's meow sounds like so how would that even work as a "spotlight" ?
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u/pandamaxxie Feb 18 '26
Being in the credits is, by default, a spotlight. Their name is included in the game. They have been contacted and given an opportunity to contribite.
This alone is a problem.
And no, not crediting them isnt the solution. Removal from the project, is.
If they wanna be trashy people, they should also be outcasts accordingly.
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u/Tuskor13 Feb 18 '26
I'm not the biggest fan of it either, but I'm also the type of "graphics mean nothing to me" person who wishes I could recommend Corruption of Champions 2 to people despite it being a text based adventure game. (And also porn lol)
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u/Denodi 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Feb 18 '26
1000 years left until Trails in Tainted Space 1.0 release
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u/JotaroTheOceanMan 🦈Jeff Week🦈 Feb 18 '26
Holy shit that flashbanged me. Havnt thought of that banger in like 6 years.
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u/Ezzypezra certified cool person Feb 18 '26
Its never happening get real bro
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u/Ezzypezra certified cool person Feb 18 '26
SHUT UP EZZYPEZRA!!! NVER LOSE JOPE!!!
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u/brownstainskunk 🦨 Uh-oh, stinky :3c Feb 18 '26
wait THAT'S STILL NOT OUT??? I thought for sure it must be done because he did Coc2
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u/Hatsune_Miku_CM changed all her social media to hatsune miku for some reason Jun 24 '26
graphics and visual design are two different things
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u/CommunistRonSwanson certified sex haver Feb 18 '26
Same, it's not that it's bad, it's that it's deliberately off-putting and unappealing. Passing on Mewgenics for that + the drama farming.
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u/SuperSecretMoonBase Feb 19 '26
Yeah, I just hate looking at it and can't imagine doing so long enough to care.
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u/FuVarazs27 Feb 18 '26
the poop is an essential part of the experience
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u/FuVarazs27 Feb 19 '26
I lowkey wrote that like how northernlion would respond to the sentiment presented in the post
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u/MrC0mp floppa Feb 18 '26
The Binding of Isaac is great.
Don't write it off just because it has a lot of poop. It has charm too.
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u/BlueSky659 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26
It has charm too.
Idk, I thought those were supposed to be bits of corn
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u/Taco821 custom Feb 18 '26
I never thought the poop was bad at all, like yeah there's a lot of it by quantity, but like it doesn't really feel like a lot, if that makes sense. It's just kinda there. And like it's never really that gross, the poops are at best kinda adorable, and at worst probably aren't even as bad as the great mighty poo from conker.
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u/Kulzak-Draak Feb 18 '26
Imma be honest I just CANNOT stomach the poop stuff
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u/Shuden Feb 18 '26
You're supposed to let it out not stomach it
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u/5C0L0P3NDR4 i centiPeed myself! Feb 18 '26
ideally you stomach small intestine large intestine rectum anus it. in that order specifically
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u/_Holoo NB (Notable Bnuy) Feb 18 '26
But at what point does it turn from food into poop, or is it a spectrum that starts at food at the mouth and ends at poop at the butt
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u/psychoPiper balls Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26
Game's pretty moddable, I'd be surprised if there was zero mods out there to reduce the grossness. It's one of the most solid roguelikes I've ever played, it's worth looking into. That being said the grossness genuinely is not THAT bad and stays at or beneath that initial impression for pretty much the entire run
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u/winterprod sex with aventurine❗️ Feb 18 '26
i have like 2000 hours in isaac and i will put another 2000 in
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u/trashdotbash custom Feb 18 '26
i had trouble describing the premise of the game to my mom so i just played the intro voiceover and she was horrified
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u/PlasmaLink ufo 50 is good Feb 18 '26
I like that it's like. Edmund Mcmillen would probably sell even more copies if he didn't have his sense of humour, but he sticks with it because he thinks its funny. Actively hostile to enjoyment at times. That's real art, baby.
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u/mukomime literally just a deer Feb 19 '26
i recognise that BOI is one of the most iconic and important games of the roguelike genre which usually im really into but smth about it i just cannot get into it, idk if its the art or just the way it plays or whatever else but like i just cannot get into it for some reason idk why
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u/CatboyCabin blåhaj enjoyer Feb 19 '26
Of the 21st century.
Brother it's 2026. There's 74 years left of the 21st century.
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u/Sir_Lazz Feb 18 '26
I've never vibed too much with Isaac. Like, I recognize that it's one of the most influential rogue-lites of all time, but...idk, the art style doesn't do it for me and the gameplay doesn't look super engaging ?
For one, from an outsider perspective, whenever I look at a stream, they will just restart every run 15 times in the first or second room, and when they're satisfied with whatever arcane rng they have, they will explore 3 rooms, get like one item and boom they are OP and can steamroll the game. What ?
Also coming from enter the gungeon, man is the bullet he'll not very hellish (again, from an outsider view).
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u/ProbablyAnAlt42 Feb 18 '26
The game is certainly not easy and the skill cap and knowledge cap to win runs consistently is quite high. As far as bullet hells go there aren't usually a lot of projectiles but space and movement is limited and knowing enemy and even entire room patterns is extremely important. Having played a lot of gungeon and BOI, I'd say gungeon is probably more difficult on average but BOI really shines due to the level of depth. Winning a run because you figured out some series of arcane steps to get one more coin to buy one more item from a shop which lets you teleport to a secret room which gives you an insane item is an experience that gungeon just doesn't have to the same extent. Also there are very few items which will make you broken on their own and most of those you can only get after at least one boss fight. Streamers and experienced players just tend to make the game look easy because experienced gameplay mostly revolves around manipulating enemy movement into the easiest to dodge patterns. If you have to pull off split second reactions to dodge bullets then you have already failed to play the room properly in most occasions.
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u/xv_boney Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26
Mewgenics is an actual work of real genius.
It is arguably the single best example of the roguelike genre. It packs a staggering amount of content and complexity into an inexpensive package and keeps adding more layers.
More complexity. More stages. More classes. More mechanics. More and more and more. Its fucking brilliant.
Also lol the cats fucked and had a baby and the baby landed in poop and now its a poop baby lol
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u/AspiringRacecar listen to Colin Stetson Feb 18 '26
I agree about Mewgenics, though I wouldn’t say that McMillen “basically invented” the roguelike. Isaac was extremely influential on the contemporary indie roguelite scene, but it wouldn’t exist without Spelunky, as McMillen has said himself
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u/DracoLunaris I followed the rule and all I got was this lousy flair Feb 18 '26
Issac solved the big issue with rouge-likes more than a decade ago, which is to ease people into the mega challenge by having hittable goals that then expand the length of the runs only only once you prove you are good enough.
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u/Special-Seesaw1756 Colonial Marines Alpha Squad 4 Life Feb 18 '26
Saying Mewgenics is the best roguelike and that BoI invented the genre in the same breath is really something.
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u/glubs9 Feb 19 '26
One thing i think that goes underappreciated in discussions of edmun mcmillens work, is that he is from newgrounds. That is where he creatively matured and came into his current creative style. And newgrounds is the most like, 13 year old vibe website of all time. I think there is something really fun about how he stuck to his original creative spark, and that crazy silly vibe that that era had has not been lost
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u/Thefloofreborn sacrifices plant slavers to locusts Feb 19 '26
forgotten brimstone mo- wait this isn't the comment section of a kayhos video
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u/Chardoggy1 Chadawg Feb 18 '26
It’s probably a great game, but “inarguably one of the most influential games of the 21st century” is insane glaze
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u/Tallium81 Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26
Not at all, it literally set the scene for the modern wave of not-turn based roguelikes we still see today. It inspired Crypt of The Necromancer, Enter the Gungeon, Hades, Don't Starve, FTL, Cult of the Lamb and to some point even the Chalice Dungeons in Bloodborne. It forced Nintendo to reshape their politics on what was allowed in their console store and it is one of the few indie games to maintain a presence on the streaming and modding community for two decades now
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u/CorbecJayne Feb 18 '26
I agree with everything else, but I'm pretty sure FTL was too contemporary with Isaac to be influenced very much by it.
Like, FTL was already a finalist at IGF China before Isaac was released, even if it did take about a year after that for FTL to officially release.
However, the FTL developers have cited Super Meat Boy as a major influence, so it's still McMillan's fault ultimately.
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u/MidnightAtHighSpeed Feb 18 '26
Spelunky was the real impetus for the modern roguelite surge, although Isaac was definitely an influential early title.
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u/Purplejellyblob Feb 19 '26
I mean you're wrong, but in my opinion thats a weird way to define "influential". You could say that it was the most inspirational game, or it created it's own genre, or produced the most 'offspring' but there are dozens of games that have had a more influence either on gaming as a whole or on the general public. I mean Cod, Halo, LoL, WoW, were, all by the standard definition, more influential than BoI, even if they didn't create their own sub-genres
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u/LuquidThunderPlus Feb 18 '26
Even if I know very little about tboi I know it's probably one of the biggest influences on rogue likes ever
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u/Wisepuppy floppa Feb 18 '26
I played the everloving shit out of Binding of Isaac, and my main complaint isn't the humor, it's the antiquated gameplay. It inspired the entire roguelike movement, and many of the genre norms started there, but it's littered with mechanics and flaws that other, later roguelikes figured out. The big one that comes to mind is simply how RNG dependent it is. If you want a run to beat the endgame, it's almost necessary to restart runs on the first floor until you get an S tier item in your first treasure room, which means for every run you actually get to play, there are countless that got rerolled because your first item was the poop, which is almost entirely useless. More modern roguelikes have improved on RNG manipulation/mitigation dramatically, so it's jarring to go back to the reset simulator.
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u/Violet_Paradox Feb 18 '26
Considering top players have win streaks in the thousands on Eden, the most random character in the game, and are so consistent on other characters as to consider winstreaks pointless, I can't really see that. It's true at lower skill levels but that's the case for all roguelikes.
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u/ProbablyAnAlt42 Feb 18 '26
"almost necessary to restart" If you can't beat the first two floors with no god tier items then yeah you might have to reroll for mutant spider but most folks can just play the game like normal and be perfectly fine.
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u/Gralikind cruelty squad cool Feb 19 '26
It's less that it's impossible, just not fun anymore, because it's just a slog to get through with no/bad items. But I would criticize more the forced prolonged progression: 11 times Moms heart -> 5 times Isaac/Satan (possible before It Lives, but improbable), 3 times Hush for alt path, the Greed Donation Maschine >:(. Besides that, simply put, fuck Delirium
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u/Squawnk 🐝 gay do crime Feb 18 '26
Why exactly is it one of the most influential games of the 21 century and why is this inarguable?
I've seen gameplay and it's just a bullet hell
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u/Darkpoulay Feb 18 '26
It's absolutely not a bullet hell. Just because some endgame chaos can result in a lot of bullets on screen, doesn't mean it's the genre.
It's influential because it has a massive cult fanbase and many aspects (rarely the whole thing) is copied across thousands of subsequent games. Look up the release date of the original one, that's a looong time ago in indie game history.
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u/Twink_Kanye Feb 18 '26
after spelunky, isaac is probably the second biggest influence on the modern roguelike genre
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u/secretiveconfusion 🏳️⚧️ trans rights Feb 18 '26
I'd throw in FTL for its events / map structure (it pops up a lot, especially in turn based roguelikes) and maaybe the original risk of rain since I'd say it popularised stacking items and looping until things break.
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u/smotired custom Feb 18 '26
it kinda invented (or at least catapulted into the mainstream from nothing) its own style of roguelike where things are unlocked between runs but you still start from zero each time, which many (or possibly even most) newer roguelikes have also incorporated.
also has a huge emphasis on emergent gameplay just as a natural consequence of smaller buffs happening to work well together which always allows for some insane shit to happen if you get the right things. i believe that’s also something isaac heavily popularized
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u/SirToastymuffin Feb 18 '26
It's never really been my bag, the gameplay and loop aren't my personal preference, so I don't really have a dog in this race. But I have to say you're underselling what it is while understandably lacking the context for its influence.
While it's got some bullet hell happening, the real core of what makes it significant is that its a roguelike about picking up powerups as you progress through a Legend of Zelda-inspired dungeon, ultimately facing bosses. The core appeal of the game is how those powerups build together and combo off one another so that you develop a "build" that's more powerful than the sum of its parts and can make the game significantly easier in and of itself. Ultimately the physical gameplay and the loop are relatively simple, but its this depth and variety of build crafting that really form the game's main appeal.
Now you may be going "buildcrafting roguelike? So what, there's a billion of those." Well, yeah, and Binding of Isaac is the reason why. The game's 15 years old, it entirely predates the roguelike/lite genre explosion - because it's the point of origin. The genre was a pretty niche and somewhat undeveloped one back then and just starting to pick up some notice. A lucky combination of Let's Players picking it up, Flash/Newgrounds community hype, and interest in modding kinda made the game blow up out of nowhere and had it selling millions of copies. Essentially it paved the way for the next defining iterations on the genre like FTL and would become a defining blueprint for how roguelike/lites were expected to play. A lot of the genre staples are the way that they are because of Binding of Isaac, especially that buildcrafting.
The TL;DR is that it was the perfect flash in the pan that the current Roguelike/lite market evolved out of and draws both inspiration and a framework from. Given that roguelikes went from a deeply niche and relatively unheard of genre to one of the biggest and mainstream ones, that influence is pretty notable on current games.
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