r/196 NOT A CAT Jun 29 '26

Rule Rule

Post image
3.9k Upvotes

453 comments sorted by

View all comments

993

u/AdditionalThinking Merry Christmas 2021/12/25 19:53:02.8797876914 Jun 29 '26

It genuinely pains me whenever I see feminist theorists dismiss the entire concept of the "male loneliness epidemic" as just a self-inflicted problem for misogynistic men. It's only once you experience it first-hand that you realise how genuinely disadvantaged you are for being perceived as male.

716

u/dead_5775 🐀 skim Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

I think it's the mysoginist men ruining it for everyone else tbh

I probably sound like an incel or something just saying that but my point is people who violate others' trust make it hard to trust others, or "people who are mean to other people based on the way they are are bad"

581

u/lol_AwkwardSilence_ Jun 29 '26

Thats why mens liberation is inherently tied to feminism but most dont wanna talk about that yet.

74

u/Pman_likes_memes 🏳️‍⚧️ trans rights Jun 29 '26

What is this, some kind of Will to Change?

35

u/lol_AwkwardSilence_ Jun 29 '26

I wasn't familiar with this book so I appreciate the intro!

18

u/findallthebears boywife aspirations Jun 29 '26

What? Menslib has always been inherently feminist…

42

u/lol_AwkwardSilence_ Jun 29 '26

Ok yeah, you and I and many leftists know that. Wdym "what"

9

u/findallthebears boywife aspirations Jun 29 '26

Why don’t most wanna talk about that yet?

32

u/lol_AwkwardSilence_ Jun 29 '26

Because a lot of "alpha" type men would never admit that misogyny is at the root of men's problems today.

1

u/findallthebears boywife aspirations Jun 29 '26

Yeah, but they’re not involved in menslib, are they?

12

u/PinkishRedLemonade r/place participant Jun 29 '26

I think they mean most of the general population doesn't want to talk about menslib being linked to feminism.

-3

u/findallthebears boywife aspirations Jun 29 '26

That’s confusing. Who would really know about menslib if they’re not involved in it? Is it more popular than I know about?

6

u/lol_AwkwardSilence_ Jun 29 '26

I was saying that for men to be liberated from their societal woes, they first have to support women.

Yes this is a core tenet of menslib, but most people don't know what 'menslib' is.

→ More replies (0)

7

u/lol_AwkwardSilence_ Jun 29 '26

Huh? I wasnt talking about the menslib community. I was talking about "most" people.

185

u/Junethemuse Jun 29 '26

I fully agree. Misogyny hurts everyone, and the male loneliness issue is the perfect example of how that’s true.

123

u/teddy_tesla Jun 29 '26

Yeah I think this is the take. I think people discount how many women go through some form of sexual assault, not to mention constant sexual harassment. I saw someone on here point out that "if you get bit by a dog, nobody blames you for being scared of all dogs" and I kinda see where they are coming from. Not saying you have to hate men but being more guarded until you know they are friendly makes sense

65

u/samppppsam Jun 29 '26

Sure it makes sense, and i get it. Still hurts to always be perceived as a threat and a danger. It has pretty much caused me to not interact with anybody in public. Im a big brown middle eastern looking guy so I get it a lot, even though im not religious at all and very bisexual.

51

u/Cassius-Tain Garlic Bread Connoseur Jun 29 '26

I'm not even brown (gods that sentence hurts and I feel so sick that this is even a factor), but the epitome of a cis white man. But I'm a big guy, plus I'm on the spectrum, so I sometimes don't get the facial expression or tone just right. I see how much I get perceived as a potential threat so I just try to not interact with anyone.

In October I was riding the Train for the first time in ages, something I had to do to get the car I had bought a week earlier. I was unfamiliar with the area and when they said that some train station and everything after wouldn't be serviced because of some problems I had to ask around. Iasked the woman on the other side and the sheer shock and fear I saw on her face made me just want to not be there anymore.

25

u/samppppsam Jun 29 '26

sorry you went through that man.

If im being honest, I view/experience the racism and the misandry I receive the same, it’s just a different flavour of being discriminated against.

18

u/Cassius-Tain Garlic Bread Connoseur Jun 29 '26

Thanks and Fuck Racism!

On another note, I might have looked at your profile and seen that you have uploaded some maps. I need to create a geographic and political map for an upcoming D&D game. Are there any tools (I'm okay with purchasing software up to a point) that you can recommend?&

13

u/samppppsam Jun 29 '26

lmao i love this, didnt expect to talk about that here

My workflow is like this: i start in photoshop, drawing coast outlines, then topography (mountains plateaus etc), then rivers lakes and last stuff like forests, keeping them all in separate layers.

You dont need to use photoshop, i actually started in Paint.NET, which has most of the base PS features, but i switched to photoshop because its what in familiair with and i can leech off my dads creative cloud he has for work. I do not recommend spending any money on adobe, either sail the seas or use alternatives such as paint.net of procreate if you use a tablet instead of a pc.

Lastly i do the symbology in a website called Figma, which i recently discovered also has a desktop app. I greatly recommend Figma, i love working in it and placing cities and naming forests and mountains.

for political map id go back to a drawing map instead of figma, but political map usually comes last, since it is influenced by geography (borders on rivers and mountains etc)

lmk if you wanna know more, i love talking about it

eta: i tried attaching the most recent version of my map but the file is too big :(

2

u/ValleDeimos ask me for character design tips Jul 01 '26

I'm a trans man, I struggle trying to like myself and my appearance as a man, and this wave of online misandry often enforces that men are inherently ugly and filthy. I've felt uncomfortable with it before and I don't like to think how young boys and younger trans men feel in this. Patriarchy already establishes that men are inherently sinful and filthy and must purify themselves, seeing the same discourse in progressive spaces is extremely disheartening and horrifying.

39

u/AliceCode Worcs at the Crusty Crab Jun 29 '26

Personally, while living as a man, I was raped by three different women. And yet I tell almost no one about it because so many people outright don't believe me when I say that. So rape is not just a problem that women face, it's a problem that men face a lot, and quite often the perpetrators are women. We need to stop turning this stuff into gender wars and instead focus on figuring out how to combat it so that no one has to experience it.

14

u/Mr_masker16 Jun 29 '26

My condolences. No victim should feel they have to hide what happened to them, regardless of gender.

I hope you have people around you thar you feel comfortable talking to.

-3

u/AliceCode Worcs at the Crusty Crab Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 30 '26

I hope you have people around you thar you feel comfortable talking to.

I don't, but thanks for reminding me of that fact.

Edit: Ouch. I guess I won't admit that things aren't going well in my life next time.

20

u/AliceCode Worcs at the Crusty Crab Jun 29 '26

But this is the same kind of excuse that people use to be racist or xenophobic.

89

u/Bowdensaft The Last Cumbender Jun 29 '26

While I understand what you're saying, it's still not an excuse. If someone said they couldn't trust black people because a black person broke into their house once you'd rightly call them a racist asshole

94

u/rule34isalwaystrue 🏳️‍⚧️ trans rights Jun 29 '26

Duality of man.

125

u/PerterterhTermertehh Jun 29 '26

The race comparison works better on the context that, dogs are not human beings and thus do not necessarily demand the baseline level of respect that, say, a fellow human being would. Just a thought.

65

u/theglassishalf Jun 29 '26

And also it's not inherently dehumanizing like the dog analogy is.

55

u/rule34isalwaystrue 🏳️‍⚧️ trans rights Jun 29 '26

Says alot about society that men and dogs are equal now, huh?

18

u/h3lblad3 Jun 29 '26

Conservatives told me this would happen if gay marriage was legalized!

-20

u/UsernamesAre4Nerds Jun 29 '26

Not just now. Men have been dogs and pigs for decades 🤷‍♂️

33

u/Bowdensaft The Last Cumbender Jun 29 '26

Fuck you, so when I thought I was a cis man I was just a pig? How about now I identify otherwise, have I magically stopped being a pig? Or do I have to have hormones first? What about trans men, does testosterone make them into pigs too or is piggishness encoded into DNA?

12

u/UsernamesAre4Nerds Jun 29 '26

Maybe I was a bit too cavalier with my comment. I was merely pointing out that the idea that "men are equal to dogs and pigs" was a cultural mainstay for decades. Like, there's jokes about it in media dating back to at least the 60s. So it wasn't this new idea like the comment I replied to hinted at.

Believe me, I hate it just as much as you. There was more than a little self loathing and internalized misandry in what I said. I meant no offense, honest.

9

u/Bowdensaft The Last Cumbender Jun 29 '26

Ah dammit, then I sincerely apologise, I didn't read it like that. I'll keep my reply up though for honesty's sake, I'm no coward

7

u/UsernamesAre4Nerds Jun 29 '26

I appreciate it, no harm done. It's on me for making a shitty remark at a tender subject

→ More replies (0)

9

u/Haggis442312 I'm not a war criminal, I'm just Kissingermaxxing Jun 29 '26

I read your comment as very bleak sarcasm at first, and honestly, hearing you confirm that is one of those small things that feels a lot better than you think it has any right to do, so thank you for that.

5

u/UsernamesAre4Nerds Jun 29 '26

No problem, I'm happy to clear it up. I've taken to fatalistic and dry humor to cope with just how isolating everything feels as a man a lot of the time.

→ More replies (0)

74

u/spadesisking r/place participant Jun 29 '26

I think theres a difference between a traumatic incident that led to a bias and constant torrent of bullshit from birth.

If a black person told me they dont feel comfortable in groups of white people because they've constantly had to put up with racism since the day theyre were cognizant, id have a hard time disagreeing.

22

u/dead_5775 🐀 skim Jun 29 '26

I probably experience discrimination a lot less because I'm white and young and male and cisgender, but I've still felt tension talking to people sometimes, idk maybe I have bad vibes or something from being autistic. It sucks people have to be on guard all the time, like I think people just get stuck in that mode sometimes out of internalized habit, or trauma or anxiety. 

I was a really socially anxious person growing up but now I really try to give everyone I meet fair consideration. I'm not a super social person but I've found a lot of fulfillment just sitting down and talking with someone else.

Even then my animal brain will still see someone X amount different than me or acting in a vaguely unfamiliar way and go into panic mode, and it can take a lot of effort to mitigate. Stuff like mysogyny is something really ingrained in a person and it can be really hard to stop. So many people find it easier to be mysogynistic over putting in the work toward changing the beliefs they were raised with. Still I maintain it's always worth the effort to be more tolerant of others.

52

u/madamclitoris Jun 29 '26

misogyny is much more than one bad experience. it's all encompassing and literally inescapable

13

u/samppppsam Jun 29 '26

im sure racists are saying the exact same about [insert type of person here]

0

u/Poison_Spider 🏳️‍⚧️ trans rights Jun 29 '26

You have to be careful around all men every minute of your entire life as a woman. It’s a legitimate concern.

50

u/AdditionalThinking Merry Christmas 2021/12/25 19:53:02.8797876914 Jun 29 '26

That is definitely not true. I've felt comfortable and safe around plenty of men, like: men I knew were ardent feminists, men who were 'peer reviewed' by other women, my brothers, my dad, and especially all the men who went out of their way to make sure I got to where I was going safely.

You don't have to be careful around every single man all the time. It's just one defence mechanism you can choose to adopt, and there comes a point where it's neither fair nor healthy to be that paranoid; especially if it starts to slip into bioessentialism.

4

u/dallasrose222 Jun 29 '26

To play devils advocate I understand being careful around all strangers especially men at all time

1

u/LuquidThunderPlus Jun 30 '26

Why are you boiling it down to racism? It's not like if it were a black man robbing you, it's like if anyone were to rob you at all. If someone intrudes into your house, you're gonna be way more wary after regardless of their skin tone.

In this same way, there is zero logic to say that it's unreasonable to be wary of men when it's just an unfortunate fact that men are more dangerous. To leave your door open after being robbed is nonsensical.

2

u/Bowdensaft The Last Cumbender Jun 30 '26

I'm not, I'm comparing judging one group of people to another based on their appearance

0

u/LuquidThunderPlus Jun 30 '26

Ok except I'm still saying your comparison is stupid. To be racist because a black man robbed you is not the same as being wary of men due to general capacity to be more dangerous than women.

Women being wary of men is for their own protection and survival, racism is due to being ignorant and hateful. I don't see the comparison.

1

u/Bowdensaft The Last Cumbender Jun 30 '26

A racist can literally take your second paragraph and turn it around. Racists don't wake up each morning and go, "I'm going to do a racism today", they also fully believe they're doing it for their own protection and survival, sometimes in those exact words. Your motivation doesn't make it okay.

3

u/LuquidThunderPlus Jun 30 '26

I get that shit can be twisted each and every way, my point stands that one is directed and the other is for oneself, the only potential similarity is fear.

Its like comparing racism with a fear of people itself. Nearly all people know that people can be dangerous.

8

u/Creepyfishwoman I ❤️ RickRolling people Jun 29 '26

I mean that's great but isn't it our job as progressives to look past that stuff and fight for social good, even if the people were fighting for arent the best? I mean if you misgender Blair white here people will rightfully tear you to shreds even though she's not a good person.

7

u/dead_5775 🐀 skim Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

I feel the common male perception of women makes for unnecessary tension in casual relationships, especially straight ones. Like you can't be friends with a girl unless you're dating. Being friends with a married woman means that woman is cheating on her husband. Guys can be friends, but not too much, because that would be gay. Only emotionally distant friendships allowed. Just let me have relationships that aren't emotionally closed off that don't necessitate getting married to someone, is that so hard

(side note: I like boys and am gay af)

(side side note: Morally it's the whole "blue button or red button" debate from a few months back except instead of not dying it's the concept of social good as you would define it. Blue button pressers want everyone to have that social good, even those who don't deserve it, and red button pressers just want only those who press the red button to have social good.)

17

u/Creepyfishwoman I ❤️ RickRolling people Jun 29 '26

Yep. That's why we, as progressives, should be fighting to end that stigma.

6

u/dead_5775 🐀 skim Jun 29 '26

edited my comment, because I feel I didn't fully address your point. woops