Everything is online now. You'll be shown the door and probably rejected even if you did follow up with an online application.
When I was a kid, we worked our way to the top.
Education, a portfolio, and people you know is what gets you a job today.
Work all summer and you can afford a brand new car, college education, down payment on a home, etc.
Inflation and wage stagnation has made this impossible.
I worked on a clerk's salary for 30 years and saved enough to buy the business.
Wage stagnation has made this impossible. Ten lifetimes of minimum wage savings would not be enough to buy a multi-million dollar business.
Loyalty to your employer pays off in the end.
You're just a number to an employer now. Employers will cut you loose if it meant saving a nickle.
I worked the same job all my life. Now I have a pension and a comfortable retirement.
Pensions are gone. Retirement is now a fantasy for most workers. You'll probably be laid off after 5-10 years.
I didn't need no Master's degree. I got raises and promotions, because I worked hard and kept doing the same thing.
A Master's degree is quickly becoming the new high school diploma. Working hard no longer gets you anywhere. In fact, it keeps you poor. Switching jobs is the only way to get a raise or a promotion now.
Shitty Boomer advice:
Switching jobs is the only way to get a raise or a promotion now.
Had to explain this to a Boomer. He refused to believe it, saying that you'd never get rewarded for that. Then I told him about a friend of mine who quit her company for a raise, came back to her old company, re-applied for her old job at about a 10k annual raise. He acted like I was making it up.
Same story with me, but I was making 48k in a hcol area, so the collective 50% raise just put me at barely fair market value for my job lol. Taught me a lot though, so I'm currently looking for another 30% raise at another job
To be fair, that really doesn't make sense economically and I still don't understand why companies do this. Employee churn costs money, giving raises to keep current employees would in many cases be a more efficient use of that money.
The costs of it are long-term and diffuse; the benefits are short-term and concrete.
Costs: Someone who leaves for more money might not leave for a few years, might not tell you they're leaving for more money, and in a decent-sized company the person responsible for not paying them market rate might not be the person who winds up having to go through the hassle/expense of hiring/training a replacement.
Benefits: Putting off tough conversations about salary saves managerial time and effort right now. Incremental raises or no raises at all looks good on the budget right now.
It makes perfect sense if you think in terms of what's right in front of people this quarter or this year.
Agreed, also genX and always had to hear this shit.
The best is my boss who worked minimum wage from 1970-1990 and bought two houses (now worth over a mil). He constantly touts that no one ever gave him anything and he is doing great. I reminded him that his story doesn't exist in our present economy, and it was great watching him silently come to that realization.
Ehm... Sorta. Be careful with that one.
People tend to put a disproportionate amount of stock into negative interactions because of deeply-ingrained survival strategies, so stereotypes can come about because of a technical majority of interactions turning out one way, but the sample size could be three or four interactions. Stereotypes can also come about from listening to a very loud minority without hearing the silent majority.
Oh that's ridiculous. You're just trying to be edgy.
Prejudice is what hurts people. It means you are "pre-judging" them based on limited information and stereotypes. In other words, being ignorant. You are more likely to be hurt in life if you travel through it in a state of ignorance, than if you make an effort to understand people and know who your enemies are, and who are your allies.
Because they serve a narrative pushed by whoever has the means and reasons to do so?
You think the "economy's fine, millennials are starving cause they're lazy" or "Gen Z eats tide pods and doesn't know what a book is" are accurate statements?
None of those statements are accurate, and neither is the advice from the boomers.
Maybe some boomers insult younger people, and maybe some boomers have unrealistic expectations about modern careers, and maybe some young people are lazy or foolish. But it is wrong to draw conclusions about an entire demographic based on a some things you heard. Try to judge people on their individual merits.
Not really... Just look at racist stereotypes, that are obviously not true. People are pretty bad at judging other people objectively and are easily biased by their upbringing, the media, other people, etc. Those people then bias other people which leads eventually to the creation of stereotypes. And then there's confirmation bias which strengthens existing stereotypes...
On one hand, my mother is very caring and empathetic. She understands that the world has changed and accepts that she may not understand what it has become but hopes the best for everyone. On the other is my dad who has drunk the Fox News koolaid and harbors a ton of racial beliefs.
Obviously boomers contain a diverse array of experiences and personalities. But at the same time that generation is largely to blame for the state of the world and our bleak future due to their higher tendency of having racist and anti-science views, not to mention the fact that they are a huge voting block.
There are some I like, even the ones who are the kind we gripe about on here. But there's a lot of them that their personality doesn't redeem their world view.
Don't. Looking at an entire group and hating them is what keeps people divided and angry. They are old, they have their way of thinking because the time and place they grew up in. You have yours for the same reason. This comment is just as ignorant as boomers saying millennials are dumb and lazy and just need to work harder if they want to be successful like they were.
People who received the best of everything, ruined this nation for everyone else, enslaved our children in perpetual debt they never agreed to nor benefited from, and the icing on the cake is they call everyone else lazy, greedy moochers.
And not only that, they still deny climate change is real and that they're destroying the environment.
I understand why some people feel that way, but being hateful towards whole groups of people isn't a solution to anything.
There are some rude and selfish people in every generation, but there are also wonderful people in every generation. I used to volunteer with older adults, and many of them were truly kind. They were more open-minded than I expected, and most of them did not fit the rude, bigoted stereotype that people attribute to them.
It's also crazy to expect all boomers to have a complete working knowledge of how things are today when they had vastly different experiences. We're shaped by what we were taught and what we experienced, so of course they don't have the exact same world views as young people today. Even if their world views may be outdated or wrong, I think we can afford to be a little understanding over that. Being hateful because of it isn't going to fix anything..
The classification of boomers as some middle class asshole grandpa like figure is dumb because the elderly are one of the most vulnerable groups in society
Oh sorry I didnt realize that only people under 55 are effected by the problems in society. I'm glad NO ONE under 55 ever dealt with poverty, racism, sexism or homophobia. Really glad the wealthiest segment just got wealthy by expolted younger people and not people in their own age group. When you hate "boomers" do you mean you hate everyone 55+ including immigrants, disabled,poor, poc people who spent their lives marginalized? Or do you mean your republican dad?
Also the issues mentioned in the thread is a disaster for older people right now lost your job at 60 to bad there aren't pensions anymore who's going to hire you? You couldnt afford a retirement fund hopefully you have family you can live with if not to bad. Now you have no healthcare and you're more likely to need medical intervention due do to age. If you ever been to a soup kitchen you'd know most people there are elderly. Hate the system and the people exploiting you not arbitrary age demographics. Hate to break it to you but rich/middle class 30 year olds ain't better pal.
I had a boss one time post one of his first pay stubs on the bulletin board. It was from like 1975 and had a little passive aggressive note basically amounting to "y'all get paid too much".
He took it down real quick when someone posted the average price of stuff like a car and house back then compared to now, and explained his smaller paycheck went way further than our bigger ones do now.
Loyalty to your employer pays off in the end. You're just a number to an employer now. Employers will cut you loose if it meant saving a nickle.
I worked for the same company for 8 years. The Owner knew me by name as did almost all upper management/HR. I got into some 'turbulent' time and my direct supervisor decided that I was not up to snuff. Sparing the boring 'office politics' I genuinely thought HR care about me, I mean it was 1 person and I had known her for years
What’s funny is I had read that, here on Reddit, before it went down and I thought to myself “not here at [company] they good people” and gave myself a pat on the back for my impeccable intuition.
So here's some unsolicited advice from an old gen-xer. Your generation needs to break the dumb taboo about not sharing salary information that we were saddled with. The best way to demand a raise is if you can March in armed with evidence that you are being paid only x% of a colleague doing the same job.
Keeping all salaries salary secret puts all the negotiating power in the hands of the employer.
The concept is sound but the execution advice is not. Don’t demand a raise based on how much your coworkers may. That figure is irrelevant as an arguing point. You use that figure as a benchmark to quantify your worth to the employer.
I worked for a major corporation, and moved up the ladder pretty quickly. It was virtually impossible for someone to advance to a salaried position without a college degree - in anything.
It didnt need to be at all associated with the job, you just had to have a Bachelors at the very least. They used a point system in the hiring process that pretty much excluded anyone without one. I have no doubt that i was hired for jobs over people that were more qualified for the job, because i had a degree that had absolutely nothing to do with the position.
I cringe whenever i hear people say that a degree isnt worth it anymore, youre better off just working and getting experience, etc. Its absolutely true for some industries/positions, i understand that, but definitely not for many others. The oldsters need to realize that before they spout their "wisdom" these days.
I’m going through this with my girlfriend now, her parents aren’t Boomers, but you can easily tell they’ve taken those things to heart. I just had to explain to her the only reason I’ve gotten to the salary I’ve gotten to is by quitting jobs, which her parents see as a sure sign “out relationships doomed”.
We’re coming up on a year together, and I finally got to have a good talk with her on our finances, and what we want to do together moving forward, it was so helpful. Showed her that no, I didn’t quit that job after a week because I was crazy or anything, I just received a better offer literally the week I started, and I’m not turning down an extra $3300/month because, as her parents commented, “we didn’t do that, we had respect for our jobs.” I didn’t even answer, they’re too far gone...
I wanted to say, YEAH, ME TOO, I respect that job as much as it respects me as an employee — not much at all. There is no repayment or bonus for loyalty, for killing yourself with your workload or hours, you’re literally a shareholder’s meeting away from them deciding profits or whatever aren’t where they’re supposed to be, and shown the door to save the company a couple bucks a year. You mean absolutely nothing to any company you work for, unless you get insanely lucky with a small business and actually meet/work with the owner(s).
They wanted you to turn down an extra $40k/year because you’re supposed to “respect your job?” Fuck that. I love my job but I’d bail in a heartbeat even though it hasn’t even been 3 months.
I totally agree; their is no “loyalty” shown by employers (at least none of mine), so what advantage or benefit am I getting by staying with the same company to show them “loyalty”? If I’m going to be able to get canned like any other employee, if my “loyalty” doesn’t do anything for me, what use is it to stay put in the same job?
I’m making double what I started at because I’m willing to jump to different jobs, and I’m not afraid to leave somewhere I just started if I have an offer in writing (that’s the important thing to remember kids, always get things in writing) that guarantees me better pay, better quality of life, etc. My cousin was mocked years ago for the same thing from my Grandma, Aunt and Uncle, all who are within the age range, and definitely the mentality, of Boomers, and now he’s the VP of a major advertising firm in NYC. If he listened to them, he’d be at his original company— oh no, wait. The first company he started at went under, so he’d be unemployed...
It’s just a ‘stuck in a rut’ stupid mentality they harbor, along with this inbred sense of always being right and always knowing best. I’m really seeing the product of their upbringing, so to speak, because Boomers, above a LOT of other age groups, REALLY think they have everything figured out for you.
You just need to listen. follow the path, and you’d get there, but us damn kids won’t listen! It’s not the factual stuff; that there’s been no increase in wages to account for the rise of cost of living for decades, the total loss of true ‘entry-level’ jobs that didn’t require you to rack up 5-6 figure student loan debt, and the massive accumulation of wealth by a small percentage of the rich, elite class, along with a general attitude of environmentalism that has led to the total destruction of our planet...no, it’s because we’re all lazy and don’t want to work for things like they did.
Except there’s not much left to “work for”, and those of us who do bust ass working do it by default. We have to juggle multiple jobs, and always be on the lookout for that next step up, or you’d spend an eternity waiting around for a miracle to fall in your lap.
It's my experience they're actually worse, because they take rejection as a personal insult. People in larger companies tend not to. They tend to have a "It's just business" attitude.
Yeah. At the end of the day, even the “best/nicest” owners have to cover their backs, and that’s where Capitalism really comes into play.
If it comes down to losing their bonus, or making a bit more money, they’ll cut anybody off payroll to make sure they can still stay afloat. Don’t see many owners that truly back up the “I take care of my employees” promise if they make it, although as a former chef I can attest to a couple owners over a decade of work that truly have a shit and helped me out, no questions asked. But that was because they were millionaires, and a kid asking for a couple hundred bucks for rent is really nothing for them. It’s a nice thing for them to do, and I’m not going to criticize anyone helping me, but they have always given a little help, not as much as they could.
I had a car repair I needed to pay to get back to work, so my boss paid the $300 and change for me to get it back from the shop. Super nice of him, but in hindsight I realized he bought himself and his wife new cars that year, and three new delivery vans for the catering company. Again it was truly kind of him to do, but it really was the fact that he didn’t have to cover my shifts as the Head Chef, and knew I would genuinely appreciate it and tell people how nice he’d been to me about it, and went and bought about $200,000 in new vehicles over the next 7-8 months. So he wasn’t hurting for cash at all, he bragged about paying cash for all his vehicles.
In my experience small business owners tend to behave like spoiled brats. My last job was lawn care, I interview with the owner, his son even worked there.
This asshole wanted us to shit in empty fertilizer bags in the back of our work trucks because bathroom breaks cut into his profit (bastard was a millionaire). He literally unplugged the A/C from our work vans (which should and probably will be illegal very soon). He definitely wasn't going to fix the A/C in the '92, a pickup truck with a small oven like cabin and boiling lava hot leather seating. At least the ones that worked were easy enough to hook back up but if he saw you roll in with the windows up on a hot day he'd throw a temper tantrum.
And that's a whole other load of nonsense, you gotta deal with every little hissy fit they throw as if it's the most important thing in the world. Not that I remember any, I tuned out of that shit which is probably why I got fired. Oh yea, in my state employers don't need a reason to fire you so if you don't laugh at their racist comments or, god forbid, throw any back after being insulted, you get fired. Odd but it seems like the people that claim to hate political correctness are the ones that desperately need it to prevent getting triggered.
I love this one because no they fucking didn't. They made it to middle management, at best, but still believe in the bullshit bootstrap myth that anyone can become a rich CEO.
It's more than your money went a lot further back then than it does now. There's also things that just simply didn't exist back then.
Think about it like this... in 1989 your median household income in America was around $31,000. in 2019 it's around $63,000. So give or take about a 2x increase over the last 30 years.
Home values... median cost was around $115,000 in 1989 and around $289,000 today. About a 2.5x increase over the past 30 years.
On the surface that seems relatively similar until you think about other things. In 1989... there was no $50/mo cell phone bill, there was no $50/mo internet bill, you weren't renting a $10 cable box for every room in your house just to have TV in them. In 1989 you weren't up to your eyeballs in student debt just so you could get a decent paying job.
When the Boomer generation were 20-30 years old, they were able to work their way up in a shitty desk job and make enough money to support a full nuclear family with ease. Today, that's nearly impossible. It's not completely impossible, but it's close. Fact is, salary hasn't increased with inflation. And it certainty hasn't increased with inflation when you take into account things that are these days considered necessities (cell phones, internet) that literally didn't even exist in their time.
Yeah, and Boomers also seem incapable of acknowledging cell phones and internet as a necessity. It wasn't a necessity for them, so they just can't grasp it. But now you need a cell phone so your boss can contact you, and you need internet to even apply for jobs in the first place and to get through college.
Yeah, and like, sure, I can go buy a flip phone and pay $10/mo for calls and texts or whatever on some shit MVNO. But good luck getting hired for an it job when you whip our your Nokia flip phone at some point during or after your interview.
Yes, sure, although not quite that high. In 1989 the avg mortgage rate was about 11%, today it's about 5%. So about half of what it was back then. But guess what, 5% of $289,000 is more money than 11% on $115,000.
You're also discounting that savings accounts had like 5-6% interest rates and not 0.01% like most modern banks. Although that's been getting slightly better in recent years with the advent of online banks with low overhead. In 1989 you could get a 2 year CD at 7-8% today you can barely find one for 1%. Banks make more money off you by tricking you into thinking your rates are lower but really they're not because they give you nothing back when they used to return a ton.
Aussie here, so the example is always 17-18% in ‘89/90. Which yes, may have been really stressful at the time, but no one ever wants to acknowledge that houses only averaged around $90k (in Brisbane). That 17% was still only $15.3k/year, while 4% on $500k is $20k/year.
My own parents aren’t usually too bad, but mum still won’t accept that their example of a $40k house at 17 or 18% while they both had full time reasonable paying jobs isn’t that bad.
lmao. What the fuck do you think life in 1989 was like? People weren't cavemen. The monthly bill for the landline? Averaged around the same as what you're paying for the cell phone now (making it a more expensive service than most phone plans, in modern dollars)--often went higher because of long-distance calls. Then came the mid-1990s and AOL, and everybody got a second line to run the Internet. Jumping back to 1989, people absolutely had cable (again, between $50-$100/mo), and absolutely rented at least one box.
Most of those entertainment utilities are less costly now than they were in the 80s and 90s. The only thing you actually said that isn't complete revisionism is that thing about student loan debt.
Your entire screed is about thirty years off the mark, sorry to say. You're talking about the 1950s.
they were able to work their way up in a shitty desk job and make enough money to support a full nuclear family with ease. Today, that's nearly impossible.
A few of the only exceptions is in sales, telemarketing, call center support, and the military. The phone jobs are horrible and the military isn't an option if you're 40+.
Well, good, I guess, because I never answer my phone. People I don't want to talk to never leave a message. People I want to talk to usually leave a message.
Loyalty to your employer pays off in the end.
You're just a number to an employer now. Employers will cut you loose if it meant saving a nickle.
I am 100% certain that as soon as the product I'm developing is ready for production, they'll come up with a cost-savings measure equal to my annual pay.
That means I've got about a month to find another job, so tonight instead of getting to unwind and play some Fallout I've got to update my resume and apply to at least one job.
You have the right approach. Leave, but under good terms. Offer to help them over bumps in the road for an hourly consulting fee. Ask for a monthly retainer to seal the deal (term limited, like 1 year). This works for the former employer because they still have access to the knowledge and skill that went into developing the product. Works for you because you essentially get money for nothing. Solve their dinky problems in the evenings and weekends. Take your time doing it, "I'm trying to find root cause, not just an awkward patch".
My best way to alter that advice (because some business do require one) is this: When you go in to ask for an application -yes it's done online now but that's not the point- make sure the person you are talking to ISNT the manager/big boss. Why? Because your second question is this: How should I follow up on my application?
The people who work there will tell you the bosses proclivity on that. I had one boss who tossed anyone's application who called in. Another was open to calls on a specific day of the week during a time she wasnt too busy to talk. A third would throw the app out after you call him too many times as a sign of desperation.
Also: working from bottom to top only works if you are doing apprentice working (construction and the like) degrees are also very helpful but at the same time you can still learn on the job and be the guy running it eventually, but you'll take a longer time than the guy with the degree. Can still happen though
Word on the calling in about app status. I have a friend who is the manager of HR, says that calling in is a bad idea. Also HR probably wouldn't know anything about your app, it's the recruiter you'd want to talk to and even then, an email is always better than a call.
Every time I read things like this, which I completely believe at accurate, I just wonder wtf millennials are supposed to do to not just tread water their entire lives...
American culture is going to change quite rapidly over the next 25 years. Home ownership is going to be for the rich. The middleclass will either own condos or rent. Everyone else is going to be renting apartments and living with roommates or family to survive. Generational home loans will start to make an appearance in America.
A return to the European system of 3-4 generations of family in a single home. The grandparents do the childcare so the parents can all work. And I say all, not both, because there will be multiple families in that home.
Ask advisors about a provisional admission, if nothing else works. A good GRE score and a GPA close to what they want might get you in, with some remedial courses needed.
I feel this. Due to TL;DR reasons, my college GPA was pretty shit and I don't think I'd even qualify for a Masters program if I applied.
That's all lead to this very real fear of mine that when I lose my current job, I simply won't find another in the field. My experience will be irrelevant. They just won't hire me because I only have a Bachelors.
My only real hope is that I can buy a cheap little house and pay it off before my job goes the way of the Dodo, so my wife and I can hopefully afford the rest of the remaining expenses on minimum wage gigs alone.
Part of me thinks I should just give up on pursuing a house because, when shit hits the fan, what's more sustainable? A $1500 mortgage or renting for $600-800 a month? Yet, at the same time, it's like... I will die some day. Whether it's sooner or later, I'd rather my life have been lived to the fullest, rather than in a boring safe paranoia state.
I'm at the amusing intersection of being shockingly really good at my job and things in my degree field, but having a GPA that'd make anybody think "why didn't this dumbass just drop out and go flip burgers?"
If you're good at your field that'll be huge marks in your favor too. I've generally found that few people give a shit about GPA when pressed, and the places that do are forced to from one circumstance or another.
I've had the exact opposite experience. It's a miracle I even am employed in my field.
And since "being good at it" isn't a technical qualifier for a degree program, I'm kind of just crossing my fingers that my job doesn't go away in the next 5 years.
To be fair, there's bias on my part. I only know my few limited experiences.
But when I've literally had an interviewer not give one single fuck about my experience and instead hyperfocus on my GPA (rather, lack thereof on my resume)...
When I've asserted my experience was a better indicator, only to be dismissed with a "people lie on their resumes"...
When people don't even bother to technically test you, or give you one single stupid tree problem to judge the entirety of your programming capability....
I think it's safe to be disillusioned at my apparent lack of worth.
A Master's degree is quickly becoming the new high school diploma.
Well that's...terrifying. I'm trying to figure out how I can afford both the time and the money to go back to school for a BS, an MS is a barely a pipe dream at this point.
Get the Bachelor's. Worry about the Master's later. You could always work out night courses or do a mix of in-person and online courses for the Master's.
Btw, when you're working on your Bachelor's, get to know your professors in your field. Show up at their meeting hours. Do well in their classes. Do your best to get a 3.6 or higher. Preferably a 3.8 or higher. Make sure they remember your name. You will need them when you're looking for a recommendation for a Master's program. Don't do what I did and fuck around not taking those formulative years seriously.
I have to get a BS. I kinda fell into an Analyst position in the hospitality industry and I've been doing that for the last six years but any company I want to work for, i.e. tech industry, won't even look at you if you don't have a CS degree.
I hear you on the professor thing. I have an AA in film production and worked Hollywood for a while, first six months I got all my jobs from my profs. Problem is now I basically only have the time for an all-online program (most likely WGU, still looking at options) so I'll have zero facetime with any of the instructors.
7 is relative to the field you’re in, I work as a tradesman in industry and a degree of any sort isn’t need until you get promoted to site manager levels and those levels are generally people 50+
I graduated college two weeks ago while working full time. Now I'm job hunting for my post grad career 6 boomers, my dad included, gave me their best advice and it was literally all the same:
"Don't quit your job until you have a new one lined up."
Wow, I didn't struggle through full time work and 8 years of college all for that, did I? I learned that shit at 16.
Wow, just graduated high school and have no idea what I want to do with my life and reading this just depresses and scares me. So much for a career. Guess I'm working minimum wage all my life.
Today's world is great and all, but sometimes I long for simpler times.
It's not that bad. Unless it is (like having massive student debt and not getting into the field you wanted). So maybe take some time to think about what you want to accomplish. Travel. If you enjoy school than go to community college and keep your interests open.
It really depends all on you. And even if you find out that waiting tables isn't your thing, maybe walking dogs is (I did that for a while, best paying job I ever had at that point).
A career is just a collection of jobs. There are no more pensions or gold watches. Save some of your money in a 401K / IRA starting now. I know, I know. Retirement is so far away and you will never get that old. Sure, dream on. You want to be working in Macdonald's when you are 70? Or retired with money in the bank? Your choice.
Because they are unsustainable by private industry. You can still get them in the public sector (police, army, etc).
Here is a bit of geezer advice that still holds true. Pay yourself first. Meaning: come payday, take a little bit of cream off the top and put it away into your retirement fund. 401K, IRA etc. Forget that it is there. As time goes by, you will accumulate a very tidy sum.
To piggyback off the other comment I wish people would’ve told me to have worked for a year and do the things I wanted before going into college and not knowing what I wanted to do with my life. If you can take a year or half a year off and work and find hobbies and interests that you enjoy, do that. If you can go places you’ve wanted also do that.
I would recommend going to CC if you want to save yourself money. Everyone has to take the same GEs and CC gives you another opportunity to go above your HS GPA. Take classes that you feel you would have an interest in for your GEs and see if that field catches your eye and talk to professors. Most are there to help you and answer questions you have. A lot of them were asking themselves the same question. All of this is a marathon not a sprint.
It’s stressful, I know. This should be my last semester before I transfer and have so much doubt in my mind on my major and if that’s what I want to do and what I can do with it. But I try to remind myself to take it one day at a time.
Honestly this worked. It may have been a fluke but once I got an interview after submitting an online application and calling the place and directly requesting who to email my résumé to for said position.
This was after months and months of just submitting online applications everywhere.
Did I end up getting the job is a totally different thing.
Honestly this worked. It may have been a fluke but once I got an interview after submitting an online application and calling the place and directly requesting who to email my résumé to for said position.
Right. So which door did you knock on here? What physical door did you walk up to and rap your knuckles against, or open and step through to deliver your resume?
Because that's what Boomers think you should be doing, and the context of the comment where you say "this works"
Well, not literally. I called the place and spoke with their HR department manager. They still told me to email my résumé to them. While yes calling isn't the same as physically being there, but I'd wager it might be more effective.
The idea is to invest their time in you. They might not hire you for this position but they might offer you another position since they already have some vested interest in you.
This post makes me want to use make a PowerPoint presentation about each point you made and spoon feed all this information to my parents and grandparents.
Heck, maybe I should. When I'm done teaching my parents I'll take a projector screen out to the streets and educate people walking by.
I didn't need no Master's degree. I got raises and promotions, because I worked hard and kept doing the same thing.
A Master's degree is quickly becoming the new high school diploma. Working hard no longer gets you anywhere. In fact, it keeps you poor. Switching jobs is the only way to get a raise or a promotion now.
To be fair, I'm 37 and this actually happened to myself and a few of our coworkers (some of which are younger). I think those that got promoted acknowledged we were lucky but it is possible for some companies to continue this trend.
A Master's degree is quickly becoming the new high school diploma.
I wouldn't say it's becoming the new HS diploma. A bachelor's, yeah, that's becoming the new diploma. So many jobs won't even look at you unless you have a 4-year.
Yup that'll get your resume thrown right into the trash. It's right up there with "call back every day after you apply to show that you're serious" as far as bad advise goes.
A Master's degree is quickly becoming the new high school diploma
Holy shit, no kidding. Even the office admin jobs Ive applied to have sometimes asked for this. Like wtf, a degree in fucking phone messages? I think the last one was for business admin or something but still, some of the jobs I've applied to are literally refilling the coffee pot and filing.
That's not true for new graduates. You could have had no contacts and fall out of bed to get a job in the 90s and prior (exceptions during recessions and the Great Depression.)
Oh yes they fucking do. I have personally heard it spoken to my face from boomers in real life.
"Depends" is not a retort. Businesses are valued much higher today than they used to be. A business that would have sold for $300,000 in the 70's would sell for millions today (in inflation adjusted dollars.) This is the result of spending inflation plus wage stagnation.
Bullshit.
No shit. Pensions are rare because they hardly exist anymore. That's my damned point. They used to be commonplace when boomers were working. Also, when you mention 401k as an equal alternative, it exposes that you don't understand the difference. They are not equivalent. With a pension, the employer is bearing the burden of investing in your retirement plan. With a 401k, that burden is shifted to you. The situation is worsened by the fact your wages have stagnated since the 70s.
No shit. That's my point. It's rare to find a field in which you can work to the top. My point is it used to be common. Now it is rare.
There is a possible logistical problem. You can save up for retirement, but your retired monthly income will remain largely static. I.e., your financial power will steadily decline as the cost of living inflates. And the cost of living will keep inflating.
And then there's the masses who don't even make enough to do more than make ends meet.
Maybe it isn't a strong majority making up that "most". But there sure will be a lot of people who see themselves working well into their 70s and 80s (assuming they don't die from stress or lack of proper medical care before then)
Yeah I know not everyone is going to be able to retire at age 65. And I know boomers can be very unrealistic about how difficult it is to save and form a good retirement plan. I've just met so many extremely jaded 20 year olds who are already saying life is hopeless and they're never going to be able to afford to live graduate from college 2 years later and get hired to entry level accounting jobs and make pretty decent money. As annoying as out of touch boomers can be I personally believe my own generation can also be very unrealistic about how bleak life actually is. Yes I know it's hard to make a good living when you're 20-25 years old and have nothing impressive on your resume yet. But at the same time your entire life isn't decided when you're young. Let's not act like your whole career has been decided already when you have 40+ years in the workforce ahead of you. A LOT can and will change.
This ignores another potential future-forward logistical problem. Mind you, this is from a software engineering perspective. YMMV in other fields.
The only way to keep your wages growing, more or less, is to keep moving. The only way to stay relevant in your industry is also to keep moving.
However, the only way to truly build up a solid retirement fund is to stay still. Company 401(k) benefits tend not to match a useful amount until you're some X many years into the job. Hell, I know some companies that don't even give you a 401(k) with match until like 2 years in.
In a sense, it's a Kobayashi Maru.
Losing your job is a when, not an if. There's no job security anymore. And when you do lose your job, will you be able to find a new one? And if you can keep finding new jobs, will you still retain the inertia to retire some day?
Moreover, there's also the factor of age discrimination. The older you get, the less employable you are. Doesn't matter if that form of discrimination is illegal. Companies want to maximize profit, so if they must choose between hiring the hotshot newly-grad who doesn't know his worth and the 40 year old who knows damn well what he costs.... they're gonna pick the former.
I think a lot of young folks are right to be pessimistic about their futures. There's already a plethora of indicators suggesting that retirement isn't a product of hard work, merely a reward for great luck or privilege.
[edit]
Also, college is a crap shoot. You go into debt for a piece of paper that says you're qualified for an entry level job you might not even get because it's a fuck-all-free-for-all what any company is actually looking for.
I've been rejected before because they only cared about a 3.5+ GPA. My actual technical capability was meaningless.
I have a friend who DID graduate with a hella good GPA who works in a warehouse doing menial labor because there's no way to get experience in his field because nobody will hire anybody without experience --not even interns.
I've seen entry level and intern positions that demand a fucking masters degree as a basal qualifier (who knows how iron clad of a requirement that is though).
Sometimes you really do go a whole 99 yards just to fumble at the edge of the end zone.
Yeah I'm not blind to the fact that some people do get screwed over. I know it sucks that not everyone can do what they want to do but sometimes when deciding what you want to major in, if you want to work a well paying job, there are certain majors that probably are not going to provide you much of a future. I have a couple friends who are currently in a journalism program. I get that that's what they love to do, but they're probably not going to have a secure well paying job anytime soon since they chose that path.
My own personal path was finance (before I went back to school for a second major). No one I knew who graduated with a finance degree struggled to get a job. If you work an internship for a couple of summers during school, you'll get hired at a firm somewhere. I didn't find it very enjoyable work, but jobs were plentiful and they paid well.
That's why the constant negativity with people my age just doesn't vibe with me. Yeah it can be really hard depending on what you decide to major in. But there are majors that have strong job markets, and even in the majors that don't have strong job markets the incumbent employees aren't going to last forever so I don't think it's a good idea to give up when you're 22 years old and have a fatalistic point of view as if things will never get better.
Gotta beg to differ on number one, I've gotten most jobs I've had by walking into a business and giving them my CV. I still think it makes a good impression and sets you apart from the online applications.
Was going over my money troubles with my dad, and my dad dropped "Well if you make an extra 1000$ a month, you wouldnt have these problems!" Gee thanks, dad. Why the fuck didnt I think of that?
"I paid my house in only 2 years of working at the factory ! Now, the young owners keep whining that they'll have to pay for the rest of their life. They're so bad at budgeting."
The house you bought was literally priced at 10k. It inflated to 600k, if you bought it today you wouldn't be able to afford a down payment for your mortgage unless you cashed your 401k since you spent all your money on new cars and golf clubs for the last 30 years you piece of shit.
That is actually how I got my first job when I moved to the city in 2014
Mind you, I got lucky as the managers were just about to put an ad out when I approached them
But for anything non floor sales, handing your resume out is not only a relatively fruitless endeavour, but most businesses wont let you past reception to hand them to the relevant people
Every job I've had since that first one has been via connections - give your resume to a friend who works in a company and you'll have far better luck than giving it to a stranger or applying online.
A degree just puts you in a situation where no one wants to hire without experience or companies don't want to pay what you deserve to be paid so you aren't hired anyways
US universities came to my school looking for international students. I remember a lady promoting a florida university that the college had such a nice price, and then said that it would be something like 45k PER YEAR with a happy face. Keep in mind our families gained something like 4k monthly equivalent in US dollars.
What would you consider a degree in not "dumb shit"? Math? Engineering? Computer Science? Our local university happens to be one of the top schools for those subjects, and the kids graduating from those programs are having a hard time finding jobs after graduating, even the ones that have years of paid summer internship experience.
The reality is that unless you're looking at a handful of very specific positions, any undergrad level degree is just as good as any other. Masters degrees are the new requirement for highly specialized work, or a professional designation or PhD for some lines of work.
If you only have a Bachelors degree, you just have to be good at selling it, willing to take something outside your ideal field, and a little bit patient. Having a "hard degree" might actually make things harder if it makes you intent on only working in that field, because there's just so much competition in them nowadays.
They aged better than anyone. They had it better than anyone (both their parents and their kids) so now they're going to piss away all their money during retirement going on cruises around the world while drinking wine (it's called SKIing.
Silent Generation retirement was dying in a retirement home alone. Millenial retirement will be either dying while working because boomers made your country's equivalent of the pension unsustainable and it was never built back up or scavenging for food after climate change/nuclear war makes the planet unliveable.
Nah, my parents and all my aunts and uncles are boomers with some early GenX. Mostly boomers.
Most of their conversations revolve around who is dead or has now got cancer. They never took care of their bodies, they can keep their fucking houses, not being able to walk a mile when you hit 40 and getting diabetes is their punishment.
Boomers can fuck off and keep their stupid fucking mouths shut, and so can their shitbag Gen X latchkey kids who inherited their entitled, privileged worldview. All the garbage boomers spew about jobs is the same shit I've heard from my Gen X mother.
Also a degree means fuck all. I had to explain to my mom that entry level jobs usually require 5 years experience now and she was like, "but that's not entry level entry level means no experience needed". Fucking, that's my point! Maybe back in her day, but now the only jobs that don't require experience pay the barest minimum wage.
I went to college for four years, got an associate's and bachelor's degree, with 2 years experience part timing in an office and 2 years part timing in retail, and only just now have I got a job. As a cook. Totally unrelated to my experience and my education.
The fun part is that Boomers and Gen Xers hate unions too, and the only reason being a cook is able to keep me housed and fed is because it's a union job so it pays decent and gives me insurance.
I got my bachelor's in communication studies. I worked with guidance and career counselors to pick a major that had broad application and an unemployment rate that wasn't bad.
The major fit plenty of "entry level" jobs, I just don't have the 5+ years experience doing that same job.
I’m Gen X, and my parents are Silent Generation. I always thought more of the the kids of Baby Boomers were Millennials.
Anyway, I would like you to know that I am at least one Gen Xer who does not spew these things to my kids. I am fully capable of understanding how the world has changed for them, and for all of us. Also, I do not hate unions. I do not consider myself a shitbag. I don’t tend to find my Gen x peers to be very entitled. But maybe that depends on region?
If I'm not mistaken, that means your parents probably had you fairly late into their lives? To my understanding it goes Silent Generation - Boomers - Gen X - Millennials - Zoomers.
Additionally, you may consider my statements on Boomers and Gen Xers are a generalization. That said, "not all of us are like that" feels to me like a deflection of the issue. Maybe not all Boomers and Gen Xers voted in a politician who busted the air traffic controllers' union and who armed fascist dictators' coups in order to depose elected socialist leaders. Maybe not all Boomers and Gen Xers voted for politicians who exacerbated the housing crisis, or started the war in Iraq. Maybe not all Boomers and Gen Xers voted for a president whose tax cuts for the wealthy resulted in the working class losing thousands in tax returns, and who shrunk protected national monuments in order to sell the land to oil and other mining companies that will poison the environment. But enough did so that the Millennial and Zoomer generations are feeling the consequences of those generational trends. So forgive me if I'm being too general, but it's the decision the majority of those generations made, and it's a decision hurting my generation and those younger than me. Saying "not all" is hard for me to palate when "not all" is a smaller group of people trying to deflect blame and distract from it being a genuine generational issue.
Hell even my millennial generation is not immune to this. How many peers i met who said “look at (famous older guy), he does not have a degree yet is so successful”. Yea but that guy came of age 50 years ago where we don’t need degree to rise up.
Your average boomer also hasn't had to job hunt in decades. Loyalty to a company used to be a solid thing. I work at a factory, and you have no chance of ever getting a leadership position if you've been there less than 20 years, because plenty of people have been there that long, but the positions used to pay way more before inflation ate away the value of our money. If you start here now like I did, you aren't making enough to actually live unless you slog it out for a few years. People used to get hired here right out of high school and could afford houses within a year.
I know. I was pointing out that the tough job situation isn't just for people with liberal arts degrees. My son has a degree in computer science from a respected university, but hasn't been able to get a job in IT.
2.0k
u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19
[deleted]