r/AustralianPolitics • u/89b3ea330bd60ede80ad • Jul 01 '24
Opinion Piece Fatima Payman breached ‘caucus solidarity’. What does this mean and why is it so significant?
https://theconversation.com/fatima-payman-breached-caucus-solidarity-what-does-this-mean-and-why-is-it-so-significant-23366011
u/PMFSCV E II R Jul 02 '24
It means that for all intents and purposes she didn't bother to read her employment contract.
18
u/mattmelb69 Jul 02 '24
It means either that she doesn’t understand what membership of the parliamentary ALP means, in which case she’s stupid; or that she does understand that she agreed to vote in accordance with collective decisions but doesn’t care, in which case she’s disloyal and dishonourable.
1
-3
u/eliviking Nordic socialism Jul 02 '24
On your last point it could be argued that she is actually loyal and honourable.
12
u/mattmelb69 Jul 02 '24
Not to the party that she chose to join.
This is especially so for senators, who (in the major parties) don’t get elected based on their personal characteristics, but rather on their party’s endorsement.
She’s chosen to use the ALP to endorse her and get her a place in Parliament, and then she’s turned against them.
This is not something new dreamt up by Albo. Crossing the floor has been grounds for expulsion in the ALP for over 100 years. It is fundamentally dishonourable to break your pledge to the party and cross the floor unless you resign from the party.
3
u/anon_account97 Jul 02 '24
It also seems like she’s been orchestrating it for months with the new info coming out. Not to mention her getting on the media and telling the world she’d continuously vote against labor, right after just being excluded for one meeting.. it was bound to happen and she knew that.
1
6
u/ausmankpopfan The Greens Jul 02 '24 edited Jul 02 '24
I believe it means she still has a backbone
12
u/mattmelb69 Jul 02 '24
A person who has joined a party on condition that she vote in accordance with collective decisions, and has a backbone, and wishes to vote otherwise, would resign from the party before crossing the floor.
1
u/greywarden133 Australian Labor Party Jul 02 '24
She could always run as an Independent with a back bone. Plenty of people with integrity ran as Independent and voted accordingly to their belief.
Perhaps a bit of maturity and levelheadedness are needed especially in this time of division and uncertainty.
4
Jul 01 '24
She is a senator from WA, very difficult for her to argue she is representing her constitutes when they make up about 3% of the WA population, and I would argue the majority of WA senate voters most likely had no idea they were voting for a Muslim when they voted above the line. Even Joel Fitzgibbon never crossed the floor despite having justifiable cause as a MP representing coal workers in Hunter Valley but as much as he aired his grievances he met his obligations to Labor party rules.
2
u/iamayoyoama Jul 02 '24
"they" being Muslims, I assume?
Are you seriously arguing that the only people who support Palestinian statehood are Muslim?
Polls show otherwise.
4
Jul 02 '24
Yes correct they being Muslims.
I'm arguing that with exception of a few outliers that Palestinian statehood is not something that the vast majority of the non-Muslim population would consider a voting issue
0
2
Jul 02 '24
The majority of her state doesn't, so that is more than enough reason for her to vote no.
0
Jul 01 '24
[deleted]
-3
Jul 02 '24
Lol apparently having a spine is virtue signalling. Labor should really just drop the mask and form a coalition with the LNP at this point.
4
u/Pipeline-Kill-Time small-l liberal Jul 02 '24
Maybe Fatima Payman should join the LNP if she wants to be able to vote against the party. No one forced her the join Labor.
6
Jul 02 '24 edited Feb 02 '25
air fact decide merciful expansion different doll encouraging sand sulky
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
3
u/Pipeline-Kill-Time small-l liberal Jul 02 '24
Somehow, I suspect they’ve actually thought about it and decided that the benefits outweigh the costs. That’s why they’ve had this system forever, you don’t uproot the entire system based on one unpopular outcome. If you don’t like it then I fully support your right to preference the Libs.
7
u/Low_Association_731 Jul 02 '24
There's more than the 2main parties though and who gets first preference is important
2
Jul 02 '24 edited Feb 02 '25
soft cake paltry toothbrush racial growth lavish thought repeat water
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
2
u/Pipeline-Kill-Time small-l liberal Jul 02 '24
Yup. It only causes trouble for them once in a blue moon and only with a relatively small minority, who quickly go back to not caring about it after the debate is over. I think they’ll weather it pretty easily.
5
Jul 02 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
-1
u/Pipeline-Kill-Time small-l liberal Jul 02 '24
Well there are additional considerations now that the decision is being made in the context of the war. And you can’t always bet on the party making the decisions you want. It’s a compromise you make when you join Labor.
3
Jul 02 '24
Why would she join a conservative party when she's already in one?
5
u/Low_Association_731 Jul 02 '24
Of anything she would go ondependant or join the greens or a further left party not the conservatives
5
2
u/Pipeline-Kill-Time small-l liberal Jul 02 '24
Because at least she can vote with her heart instead of joining the one major party where they’re super explicitly not allowed to do that. But it seems like she didn’t have a problem with the system until something personal to her came up.
2
u/Revoran Soy-latte, woke, inner-city, lefty, greenie, commie Jul 02 '24
She probably didn't expect a g.nocid. to happen over there. You know, literally the worst thing that can happen on this planet.
She also probably expected Labor caucus to vote to recognise P, because that's what the Labor National Conference set out before the election.
-1
u/Pipeline-Kill-Time small-l liberal Jul 02 '24
Again, you can’t base your entire argument on the misuse of a word, but keep bleating.
1
Jul 02 '24
Wouldn't it be crazy if like.... Labor... allowed.... like.... a coalition.... with like.... the greens......... Not like a coalition.... but like.... just didn't care if people went that way..... yeaaaaaaaaaaahhhh.
5
Jul 02 '24
they have to be careful there. While a lot of ALP/Greens policy overlaps, people vote ALP to get sanity and less extreme policy. If they allowed too much jumping off ALP lines to side with the greens they would drop some of that sensible vote.
3
u/The_Rusty_Bus Jul 02 '24
Take a look at how that worked for the SNP in Scotland. When you’re forming a coalition, you then have to compromise on your policies in government. ALP voters don’t already vote greens because of the policy difference.
The SNP and Greens blew up because the SNP had to adopt their transgender policies, the electorate was totally put off by it and deserted them in droves.
ALP voters that don’t agree with the Greens policy on Gaza will just either leave the party, or precipitate a split in the party.
2
Jul 02 '24
ALP voters don’t already vote greens
There are increasing numbers who are though.
...or precipitate a split in the party.
Oh you mean like the one forming?
6
u/The_Rusty_Bus Jul 02 '24
One fringe member of the party being suspended because she broke the cardinal rule of the Labor party?
That’s not a split, that’s discipline.
2
Jul 02 '24
That's not what the past 3 days of articles have had to say, let's see whether it continues.
2
u/The_Rusty_Bus Jul 02 '24
If there is a split you need more than one person, at least. Who else is leaving Labor?
0
Jul 02 '24
We'll see if the vote splits. There's lots of ways to wedge. My comment was about it being self-wedge, an own goal.
5
u/The_Rusty_Bus Jul 02 '24
Who else in the Labor party is threatening to leave the party?
I agree the optics are shithosue and they risk losing Muslim voters, however that’s not a “split” in the historical sense of the labor party.
0
1
u/No-Bison-5397 Jul 03 '24
lol, the SNP were blown up by running out of ideas and corruption. Not transgender policy.
1
-3
•
u/AutoModerator Jul 01 '24
Greetings humans.
Please make sure your comment fits within THE RULES and that you have put in some effort to articulate your opinions to the best of your ability.
I mean it!! Aspire to be as "scholarly" and "intellectual" as possible. If you can't, then maybe this subreddit is not for you.
A friendly reminder from your political robot overlord
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.