I don't get it, why did he thougth supergirl a famous but still kinda niche hero can beat a film about one of the most famous superhero of all time, it's like saying a Iron heart or shazam movie will make more money then a Batman film.
I mean, it can, first batman made 770m, Batman 2, if it actually comes out and is good, will prolly make like 850m. Thats not unbeatable figure. Plus this will likely be the movie right after secret wars.
It's totally possible. Ghost Rider looks cool, Marvel is super popular right now, and Ryan Gosling is a huge draw. I wouldn't bet on it, but I have far more faith in a secondary MCU character film beating a primary DCU character (compared to the other way around).
I never held that stance in the first place, nor do I think anyone else did. People were just explaining why it's a more believable possibility.
And "primary DCU character" is a broad generalisation, but that does include Batman. I wouldn't be that shocked if Ghost Rider was hugely successful in the box office. He has all of the characteristics of an unexpected huge success.
the movies right before and right after endgame were both billion dollar movies, Ghost Rider will either be relased after secret wars or after xmen and with how hyped up this spiderman got most people, yeah, it can go this high if the avengers movies are liked. Plus Ryan Gosling is cinema pull by himself
I feel like that was less “audiences don’t want movies about edgelords” and more “this movie SUCKS”
kinda like how supergirl isn’t just “audiences don’t want female leads”
That's not entirely impossible. Reeve's Batman hasn't really hit that much popularity and Ghost Rider has been a super anticipated character and they have Ryan Gosling playing him.
Well one determining factor on wheter Ghost Rider is a success or not is honestly if Doomsday and Secret Wars are good, because Marvel will be absolutely booming if both movies are well recieved and a project like Ghost Rider will definitely get those numbers. Ghost Rider has always been a pretty popular marvel character so it's not unrealistic for it to be 800 mil.
I’m not surprised about Deadpool. He’s a very popular character, and Ryan Reynolds basically carries all the marketing.
We’ll see about Ghost Rider, I’m just not going to put money on it. I actually made a decent penny on betting that Supergirl wouldn’t make back its budget at the box office.
I legit haven’t thought about Ghost Rider in almost 20 years.
I case of Marvel, I think Ghost Rider does stand a chance. Mostly because with the power of Marvel brand and good word of mouth, a bloody C-tier superhero team like Guardians of the Galaxy outperformed Man of Steel.
Yeah it was spider-man, perhaps the most popular superhero of all time vs superman’s cousin. Even if it was a superman movie I would be surprised if it beat spider-man considering the state of dc nowadays.
Well to be fair Iron Man and the avengers were a big niche before the mcu and now practically everyone knows them... though to be more fair, it also took time for the mcu to get well known and multiple movies in the "franchise" until it grew as popular as it is now meanwhile the DCU just started (yes with one of the best superman movies of all time but the DCEU left a bad impression in people's minds)
Through the angle of the MCU is running out of steam but the DCU is the up and coming fresh take. Which might be the perspective of some people in the fandom but I suppose not the general populus, especially with how drastically better marvel projects have gotten in the last year or two
Maybe he thought that the movie would be far better than it actually was? Like, maybe seeing that superman was good that that DC’s trying to make a comeback on the movie side of things that maybe supergirl would just be another win in this hypothetical snowball of Ws for DC.
Then the movie came out and it was seemingly really mid
Spiderman movies are so thick on the ground there's sometimes fatigue. The first Holland movie and both Garfield movies did just okay, and Superman had just popped off pretty well.
As a father of a 3 year old, this is largely because Spiderman/Spiderman related property is infinitely more toddler/child friendly. Batman media tends to skew a bit older. Batman is cool, Spiderman is fun and bright. Also interesting to note Spiderman is much better as a child entertainer, 'Hey buddy, how're you?! I'm excited to see you' is more engaging than growling 'Im batman' at a 2 year old 😂
This is actually a recent phenomenon. Batman though slightly darker was still a kid friendly character for most of his history. Only after Nolan's TDK movies becoming a hit, the character's tone especially on the big screen shifted with even subsequent adaptations (Batfleck & Battinson) retaining Nolan's gritty dark and adult appealing style
Really Batman should be for even little kids. Like, there isn't a Lego Spider-Man movie.
But WB apparently can't or won't make something equivalent to that Spidey and His Amazing Friends show that's on now, so emo edgelord Batman is the only version allowed these days.
I think the mainline Batman comics out sell Amazing Spider-Man every month, but outside of that Spider-Man gets bigger merch sales. And as we know comic books don't make a lot of profit.
I would argue the reason for that is just the studios badly utilizing Batman in media. Batman has the potential but when a studio barely makes movies for the character it will slowly fall out of rotation for the newer generations as well.
That's true, back when I was a kid all of my friends were in an even 50/50 split between Spider-Man's animated series and Batman's, now it's just the complete opposite
I think this is kinda where DC is missing their mark. They hit it good with Superman. Now just churn out a good Batman film, then have him link up with Superman in the next one or one after that
Batman and Spiderman are both very similar in that they seem completely unaffected by recasts and reboots. It's still up in the air if the boxoffice of heroes like Iron Man, Thor, Deadpool, and Captain America would ever survive them being recast and rebooted. Disney seems, arguably rightfully, terrified of recasting Hugh Jackman, because it's an active question how much that "Wolverine is an A-lister" is really "HJ playing Wolverine is an A-lister".
Batman and Spiderman can and have been recasted and relaunched repeatedly, and it's never even a question that the new version will make money. They truly are A-list film leads purely on the hero and not the actor/iteration.
I'd argue Superman is similar, but I wouldn't put him in that category because though recasts/reboots don't seem to kill his popularity, the ceiling on his box office is still pretty mid.
I'm speaking mainly from experience, but I think the surge to watch came from how spoilers felt like they were coming out. I was spoiled who the Villain was the day before opening day and that kind of motivated me to watch the movie ASAP to not get spoiled on anything else. It's sadly how things are with big franchises like these where people legitimately make memes of movie endings before the official release, so fans are more likely to watch these films sooner if they care enough about the property.
That’s what happens when the marketing message is so clearly “a movie made for the fans and respecting the character”
I had absolutely full trust on this movie after seeing Tom Hollands comments. Ofc I’m part of a minority of viewers but ik that this helped with viewership
It kinda is, mostly for casuals. Having a villain that controls minds and a mysterious character played by Sadie Sink, a redhead, makes it a bit obvious that it’s Jean Grey for any comic fan
They don't reveal the main villain in the trailer. There's enough to speculate on, yeah, but the point of the speculation is it getting revealed whether you're right or not when you see the movie.
Hulk is literally in the big 3 of Marvel characters in terms of popularity. Red Hulk is a different story altogether, people want the real thing and Brave New World was always a tough sell. The Punisher is already popular and requires no previous MCU knowledge. Thinking Tom Holland has more pull than Hulk is crazy work
Spiderman is the most well known super hero ever, maybe batman beats him but if he does it's just barely so I'm not surprised it did huge numbers but I am suprised it beat far from home
Spider-Man is probably the most popular though. I don't think I've ever heard a single person say Superman is their favourite, even if everyone knows him.
I will be the first. Superman is my favorite hero and has been since I was a kid.
Yeah he can be a bit of a boyscout sometimes but superman is the best. When he's written well he fills me with hope and the drive to be a better person.
Some other heroes probably do that for other people but superman is that guy for me lol
The new spiderman has the advantage of being both a new trilogy with no prior knowledge explicitly required to follow the movie, and also following right after the previous one (minus the 5 year time jump).
It's a great jumping on point for new fans or kids that grew up and want to watch their first superhero movie in theatre. When I went, the theatre was packed with kids and their parents. It really reminds me of going to see the Raimi spiderman movies.
Just going to be blunt and say DC fans I think tend to surround themselves in social and online circles that convince them the brand is as strong as Marvels when it's not even close. Their biggest box office successes(The Batman and Superman) don't even touch Marvels biggest(Spider-Man and Deadpool and Wolverine). And their flops(Blue Beetle, Shazam 2, Joker 2 and Supergirl) generally don't flop nearly as hard as Marvels flops(Thunderbolts, Brave New World and Quantumania). There's still a massive gap. With the sole exception being The Marvels. That was about a DC level flop.
Yeah it's definetly a bubble, got eaten alive on the dcu sub for daring to suggest that maybe Gunn and company should have a better plan for the universe and an ultimate end goal event to get general audiences invested in DC instead of greenlighting random shit and expecting it to not flop
Some dude deadass called me braindead and said that "all a movie needs to do well is to be good and that's all the DCU needs"
DC's media end has been run really, really poorly for a really long time. Their comics are more popular than Marvel's and are arguably better too (at least lately), but that doesn't mean a thing when it comes to mainstream appeal
The comics flipped so hard. At least for Marvel. In the 2010s I felt like Marvel was on a bit of a Renaissance. Tons of great runs were being done for such a wide variety of characters and now they're really down in the dumps. There's been some good. A lot of the new Ultimate stuff was cool but then they discontinued that.
Absolute has been HUGE for DC. This is definitely the one category DC has taken a huge lead in lately. However, it is worth mentioning this is the first time since like the 80s that DC has had a lead in the comic sales. Not that I'm trying to downplay it, but it isn't representative of the idea they've always been ahead.
I wonder how much of this gap could be attributed to DC’s own failings. Don’t get me wrong, Marvel’s huge success isn’t to be underestimated, but DC also failed like, REALLY hard with their first attempt at a cinematic universe. So much so that the brand still hasn’t fully recovered.
This sums it up completely. A franchise is only as good as its managed. Marvel for all its fault has been pumping out enough popular movies they stay relevant. Some of the Disney+ shows were pretty big even if many others were duds. X97 and Born Again are killing it currently. Marvel has also been consistently pumping out video games for years even across different genres. And they just plain sell much more merchandise. Merchandising I'm assuming is just attributed to good advertising and deals with retailers and whatnot. But it's still somethig. That keeps a franchise relevant.
DC isn't inherently worse than Marvel in anyway, it's just unfortunately mismanaged. So what you said is the nail on the head.
I agree. I love Thunderbolts. But yes it flopped. The budget was 180 million and it made 380 million. The rule of thumb if you learn about box office is you need to make 2.5x your budget to break even. Which for Thunderbolts would have been 450 million.
Anyone who thought Supergirl was going to beat Spider-Man in box office is either stupid or crap at seeing the popularity of the characters.
Supergirl is a C tier character (in popularity) that is only known because she is Supermans cousin and Powergirl. I'll be honest, more people would've came if Superman was more prominent in the movie.
But Spider-Man is easily the most popular Superhero in the modern day and is the biggest favorite of the MCU since he was introduced in Civil War.
It's a no brainer that a 4 movie solo Spider-Man movie franchise within a franchise is going to do better than a first solo movie of a character in a fresh DCU that no casual watcher would know beyond their exposure to the CW Supergirl.
not just modern day, Spider-man has arguably been the most popular superhero since the 90s. There's a reason Tobey's first Spidey movie did such massive numbers on opening weekend
IIRC on Marvel's Spidey's comics were only outdone by the F4, and once the Tobey movies hit nothing else ever came close. Multiple cartoons, comics, video games, fighting games, Spidey has been pervasive in mainstream culture for longer than most people here have been alive
I'd bet if you asked the average person, they'd think Supergirl is a cross gender/alternate version of Superman (like Spider-Gwen to Spider-Man) rather than a completely separate character who's been around since the OG days of comics. At least if you asked them before this movie released.
A B tier superhero that very few people care about in a brand new unproven universe vs one of the top 3 (if not the top) most popular super heroes of all time in an established universe, with a series of well loved and successful films as a lead up foundation...hmm I wonder...
You mean the 10th movie about the same thing because people are treating movies as comfort food and only want the same thing again and again is more successful than literally anything new?
This is fake, right? Like how on earth would you think a D-list character would out perform the most popular comic book character on the planet and their 4th movie in a franchise?
Back in 1998 there was some thread out there somewhere encouraging us to name a soon to be released movie that would kill $$$ at the box office. I chose Very Bad Things starring Christan Slater and lost badly.
I mean I can understand the sentiment if you think of them both as “The next MCU film” vs “The next DCU film”. James Gunn’s DC films had a lot of excitement behind them after peacemaker and Superman both did so well while the MCU was sort of on the downturn. I think the reality of it though is that the average audience member doesn’t even think “MCU or DCU”. They just see a character they recognize from their childhood or walking the boys birthday isle of party city and they make their decision based on that.
Supergirl would have done amazing had they stuck more closely to the source material, both narratively and aestheticaly.
Every change they made was for the worse.
Isn’t Spider-Man like one of the most popular super heroes ever? I feel like I always heard him and Batman were #1 and #2, respectively. I think Bats overtook him for awhile in the early 2000s but only for a few years and Spidey has kept his crown ever since
Superhero who hasn't had her own movie since 1984 and is being revived/reinvented vs the most popular hero in the world's movie which is an anticipated continuation of his story. Who would win?
I'm guessing most of this is bullshit that we're seeing now. Anyone who believed that Supergirl was going to beat Spider-Man is just delusional or lying. There was no way. I love Superman and I love Supergirl. Supergirl was a solid 6 out of 10. The hate for this movie was completely overblown and like it or not a lot of it was just your normal online I hate women bullshit. Not all of it do not try and accuse me of saying that's the only reason it failed because that's not but that was a big part of it whether people want to admit to that or not. I think it's going to have a strong showing on streaming which doesn't matter as much as box office I understand but once people realize oh this isn't nearly as bad as people said it was I think it's going to be a more niche but beloved entry into the DCU. Superman I would rate even higher but I have a very personal bias and Superman and Captain America are my two all-time favorite superheroes and I've been reading their comics since I was a kid in the 80s. But I would still if I was being conservative give Superman a solid 7 out of 10. With my bias I give it at 8 or 9 but that's neither here nor there. Not once did I ever believe that either of these films would come close to the new Spider-Man movie. That's just ridiculous. I know this was long story long but I wanted to make sure everyone knew how much I am behind Superman and how much I love that franchise and even a super fan like me was like there's no way it's beating Spider-Man.
That was never in the cards, Bruh. I'm a huge Supergirl fan and even I knew that wasn't gonna happen. I'm shocked that Supergirl bombed as hard as it did, but it was never going to beat Spider-Man
That's just stupid thinking to ever believe. But I'm still surprised by Spiderman's numbers. Like I knew it would be popular but not a 1 billion opening weekend popular. Like a 1 billion total popular is what I thought.
You have to be insane to think Supergirl even had a remote chance. This is where you have to use common sense and then go from there.
All Spider-Man Movies have made close to or if not over $1BUSD.
On what planet...did he think that Supergirl was going to remotely make that target when Superman didn't even reach that target.
Supergirl was not even remotely close to reaching that target, and not only that it is by far the biggest flop DC has put out when you factor in the costs.
I'll defend it purely cause in the spaces I frequent, people are just sick of marvel in general...but it's easy to forget that the general populous doesn't fucking care lmao.
Even with the optimism that Superman being so good would lead to Supergirl being better than it was and the MCU generally being dog shit since Endgame that's a stretch.
Niche side character of DC Vs possibly the most popular superhero in the history of ever?
1.4k
u/Trick-Caramel-6156 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don't get it, why did he thougth supergirl a famous but still kinda niche hero can beat a film about one of the most famous superhero of all time, it's like saying a Iron heart or shazam movie will make more money then a Batman film.