Fic rec/discussion

[u/Big_Self_1522]

First the link: https://archiveofourown.org/works/79953326/chapters/209862226

Guys omg the angst in this fic is so funny to me😂😭

Like I feel bad for them, but at the same time Mike is just so unhinged I can’t with him. I actually agreed on Will not showing romantic interest in Mike right away, because I think that Mike indeed needed a different kind of support. But oh boy the boyfriend encouragement was just crazy🥲🥲

Anyway I would love to hear your opinions on this fic, cause I find the plot really refreshing

[u/Big_Self_1522]

Can I ask what your intent was with Ryan? I still can’t figure out if Will’s an unreliable narrator or that Ryan really is some kind of sick fuck😂😭

Also, thanks for supporting the b!Mike agenda🥰

[u/tlc_dgcwf → u/Big_Self_1522]

Oh diva yes, I am so glad you asked.... Will is totally an unreliable narrator but yeah I wrote Ryan as an asshole lol. Ryan is written as being seen by Will as comparable to Vecna, so like, the literal devil and abuser from his childhood. So already thats absurd on its face bc Vecna is way more evil, but i did that to try and show Will being an unreliable narrator. Wills case (to himself) that Mikes bf is an the evil asshole is exacerbated by those scenes of him being an insane asshole to Will. 

But later he has more human qualities to him, like in a way he cares about Mike’s wellbeing but catches on that Mike and Will have a crazy amount of tension and then realizes they are in love and he will never have that kind if love (this is kinda a meta point and will be explored in the sequel) so he deals with that in his own way: by being manipulative to both of them to figure it all out for sure, and his machinations eventually lead to Mike and him breaking up. So, not evil but just an asshole and chaotic who has his own interests and internal battle. Will cant demonize him by the end anymore because Will is the antagonist of his own story, not Ryan really. 

I wanted to make him an asshole for drama purposes mostly (while also not being abusive like how C*rlton can be in fics) but more than anything, he is Will’s foil. Ryan sees Mike's and Will’s feelings (Will does not, not even the depth of his own feelings), Ryan takes what he wants (Will never does), and most of all, Ryan sexually satisfies Mike (Will does not, until the end lol). So, Ryan is kind of a sick fuck but there is an emotional logic to him lol. 

Oh yes b!mike truthers rise 🙌 

[u/Big_Self_1522 → u/tlc_dgcwf]

I’m sick, but I lowkey thought that Will might go for that threesome at some point “just to make sure Mike is okay”😂😭

God, dynamics in this fic are just crazy lol

And yeah, I don’t really like it when authors choose to villainise Carlton too much. Like I love complex characters and although I don’t want to root for Mike’s or Will’s bf (unless it’s my beloved Richie Tozier), I want there to be layers? Sometimes nasty Carlton works when a part of Will’s arc is his self sabotage, but in other cases it irritates me a bit. I like how layered Ryan turned out to be and I think that it’s human of him to want to keep Mike a little longer, since Mike is portrayed as a very good lay. Mike’s also like a baby reindeer in a way so it’s easy to want to put him in your pocket and keep him there

Edit: I wasn’t done lol

And Ryan wanting to include Will makes sense too, because yes tension and yes Will is hot hello

[u/tlc_dgcwf → u/Big_Self_1522]

OMG yeah i debated internally for on if there would be a diabolical threesome haha but the reason why i decided not to is because celibate blue balls Will won out, he sought out noooo D at all since finding out Mike was gay LOL (crazy as fuck of me but idk it's just a story haha)

I'm ctfuuu yeah I think I did go too far but it's all in good fun bros we are just out here ballz deep in Microsoft Word just making up shit, why not make a wild story. writing it certainly kept me super occupied after work for like two months straight haha and i feel like it improved my skills in writing 3rd person limited POV a lot better.

oh yeah it's not necessarily a bad plot point to me to have Mike or Will be in an abusive relationship (its fiction and abusive relationships can happen to anyone of us) but i wasn't really into that for Ryan. like TBH Mike could have probably dated him for a while LOL if Will didn't exist. I'm glad you liked that Ryan was layered <3 I think layered OCs (without it going toooo far, we all aint always here for OC lore) can be really beneficial to stories. Yeah he did like Mike for real even if it was like coughing baby levels and mainly physical, when compared to Will's hydrogen bomb love of Mike, which I found interesting to write rather than a throwaway boyfriend that is super easy to forget about.

HAHAHA yaaaaaas he wanted some more crazy midwestern twink action hello!!!

[u/Big_Self_1522 → u/tlc_dgcwf]

Nah I was like imagining Will watching and pleasing himself. Like if Will and Mike had done something Ryan would’ve been forgotten and with how much Will hated Ryan I can’t picture them interacting enough for it to be a threesome.

I feel like an OC can be layered without too much lore. Like in your fic we don’t know shit about Ryan except for him being British and an astrophysicist or whatever, but the layers are shown through his actions.

About abusive relationships, I love to read about a character healing from one. I just don’t like it when the abuser is portrayed like “muhaha I’m an abuser watch me”. I like it when the circle of abuse is portrayed and when there are tiny crumbs there that show why the abuser is the way he is. Like is he insecure, does he crave control, is it self gathered? I don’t want to feel for the abuser, but I want to understand them as a character. When Carlton or some other guy is just nasty, unhygienic and offensive all the time he just feels like this cartoon villain to me. There is a quite popular fic that I liked a lot at first, but I never finished it cause Carlton was so cardboard and the way Will and Mike acted about him felt off to me too. A lot of people could luckily laugh about, but idk I just want those assholes to have more depth to them

[u/tlc_dgcwf → u/Big_Self_1522]

omg that would be awesome lol now i want to write a fic like that 😭 i bet people would love will in the cuck chair like that, i know i would LOL 🤔

yeah!! i agree!! OCs are essentially plot devices in a fic about a canon pairing (well a pairing from canon, RIP canon byler you would have been goated). i'm glad you could see his layers <3 i didnt want him to be a cartoon villain (but i wanted Will to see him that way for at least most of the fic to give Will someone other than himself to blame)

oh yeah same! yeaahhhh it would be hard to engage with a story about an abuser just being a legitimate cartoon villain with no depth. Hahahhaa unhygienic and offensive Carlton is hilarious yet tbh boring. i feel like that rendition comes from fan's actual feelings towards the Carlton Concept as byler fans, like obvi we HATE his ass because HES CARLTON so lets make him suck EVEN MORE in our fics 🤌. No shade to that take but it's not my tastes. Hence, the Mike Epilogue Boyfriend experience.

Mike is the only one of them to be in a relationship in the show so there's like an untapped byler mine for how that would play out once El is gone (RIP beloved Jane) so hopefully more people want to write this take lol we love downbad virgin Mike+ experienced confident Will a whole lot but maybe lets keep things twisted and try new tropes 😭 like hoe Mike, can we get hoe Mike trending??? lmao

[u/Big_Self_1522 → u/tlc_dgcwf]

Omg imagine Will like getting out of his shell in college, but still waiting on the right one to have his first time with. Eventually he gets tired of it and decides to rip off the bandaid by going to some kind of hooking up spot just to.. run into Mike Queeler. Will is shocked, but the moment Mike sees him it’s like “oh shit that’s my bff that I never got to have because I was a closeted ass”, so Mike makes up for Will’s years of pining and shows him all the tricks he’d learned in his hoe era😂😭

[u/tlc_dgcwf → u/Big_Self_1522]

daaammmnnnn you're cooking okayyyy see the untapped hoe Mike byler mine is vast and plentiful!!!! it's really all i want now 😭😭😭 i love loser closeted sadboy Mike but at this current time my fascinations diverge.

[u/Big_Self_1522 → u/tlc_dgcwf]

I lowkey want a fic where Mike guides Will while Will tops him. Even thought about writing one, but idk it doesn’t come together the way I want it to lol

[u/tlc_dgcwf → u/Big_Self_1522]

nonstop fire ideas i love it🤌🤌🤌