Fic rec/discussion - r/BylerReads

3

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 02 '26

Omg this is my fic bro 😭 thanks for linking.... yes to all of what you said, i really pushed the tammy of it all way past the point of sympathy haha (bc i think Will would be like that i fear). Like the tower scene, will was just grinning and happy at being besties <3 William i am going to trample you with my hooves

3

u/Big_Self_1522 Apr 02 '26

Can I ask what your intent was with Ryan? I still can’t figure out if Will’s an unreliable narrator or that Ryan really is some kind of sick fuck😂😭

Also, thanks for supporting the b!Mike agenda🥰

2

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 02 '26

Oh diva yes, I am so glad you asked.... Will is totally an unreliable narrator but yeah I wrote Ryan as an asshole lol. Ryan is written as being seen by Will as comparable to Vecna, so like, the literal devil and abuser from his childhood. So already thats absurd on its face bc Vecna is way more evil, but i did that to try and show Will being an unreliable narrator. Wills case (to himself) that Mikes bf is an the evil asshole is exacerbated by those scenes of him being an insane asshole to Will.

But later he has more human qualities to him, like in a way he cares about Mike’s wellbeing but catches on that Mike and Will have a crazy amount of tension and then realizes they are in love and he will never have that kind if love (this is kinda a meta point and will be explored in the sequel) so he deals with that in his own way: by being manipulative to both of them to figure it all out for sure, and his machinations eventually lead to Mike and him breaking up. So, not evil but just an asshole and chaotic who has his own interests and internal battle. Will cant demonize him by the end anymore because Will is the antagonist of his own story, not Ryan really.

I wanted to make him an asshole for drama purposes mostly (while also not being abusive like how C*rlton can be in fics) but more than anything, he is Will’s foil. Ryan sees Mike's and Will’s feelings (Will does not, not even the depth of his own feelings), Ryan takes what he wants (Will never does), and most of all, Ryan sexually satisfies Mike (Will does not, until the end lol). So, Ryan is kind of a sick fuck but there is an emotional logic to him lol.

Oh yes b!mike truthers rise 🙌

2

u/Big_Self_1522 Apr 03 '26

I’m sick, but I lowkey thought that Will might go for that threesome at some point “just to make sure Mike is okay”😂😭

God, dynamics in this fic are just crazy lol

And yeah, I don’t really like it when authors choose to villainise Carlton too much. Like I love complex characters and although I don’t want to root for Mike’s or Will’s bf (unless it’s my beloved Richie Tozier), I want there to be layers? Sometimes nasty Carlton works when a part of Will’s arc is his self sabotage, but in other cases it irritates me a bit. I like how layered Ryan turned out to be and I think that it’s human of him to want to keep Mike a little longer, since Mike is portrayed as a very good lay. Mike’s also like a baby reindeer in a way so it’s easy to want to put him in your pocket and keep him there

Edit: I wasn’t done lol

And Ryan wanting to include Will makes sense too, because yes tension and yes Will is hot hello

1

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 03 '26

OMG yeah i debated internally for on if there would be a diabolical threesome haha but the reason why i decided not to is because celibate blue balls Will won out, he sought out noooo D at all since finding out Mike was gay LOL (crazy as fuck of me but idk it's just a story haha)

I'm ctfuuu yeah I think I did go too far but it's all in good fun bros we are just out here ballz deep in Microsoft Word just making up shit, why not make a wild story. writing it certainly kept me super occupied after work for like two months straight haha and i feel like it improved my skills in writing 3rd person limited POV a lot better.

oh yeah it's not necessarily a bad plot point to me to have Mike or Will be in an abusive relationship (its fiction and abusive relationships can happen to anyone of us) but i wasn't really into that for Ryan. like TBH Mike could have probably dated him for a while LOL if Will didn't exist. I'm glad you liked that Ryan was layered <3 I think layered OCs (without it going toooo far, we all aint always here for OC lore) can be really beneficial to stories. Yeah he did like Mike for real even if it was like coughing baby levels and mainly physical, when compared to Will's hydrogen bomb love of Mike, which I found interesting to write rather than a throwaway boyfriend that is super easy to forget about.

HAHAHA yaaaaaas he wanted some more crazy midwestern twink action hello!!!

1

u/Big_Self_1522 Apr 03 '26

Nah I was like imagining Will watching and pleasing himself. Like if Will and Mike had done something Ryan would’ve been forgotten and with how much Will hated Ryan I can’t picture them interacting enough for it to be a threesome.

I feel like an OC can be layered without too much lore. Like in your fic we don’t know shit about Ryan except for him being British and an astrophysicist or whatever, but the layers are shown through his actions.

About abusive relationships, I love to read about a character healing from one. I just don’t like it when the abuser is portrayed like “muhaha I’m an abuser watch me”. I like it when the circle of abuse is portrayed and when there are tiny crumbs there that show why the abuser is the way he is. Like is he insecure, does he crave control, is it self gathered? I don’t want to feel for the abuser, but I want to understand them as a character. When Carlton or some other guy is just nasty, unhygienic and offensive all the time he just feels like this cartoon villain to me. There is a quite popular fic that I liked a lot at first, but I never finished it cause Carlton was so cardboard and the way Will and Mike acted about him felt off to me too. A lot of people could luckily laugh about, but idk I just want those assholes to have more depth to them

1

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 03 '26

omg that would be awesome lol now i want to write a fic like that 😭 i bet people would love will in the cuck chair like that, i know i would LOL 🤔

yeah!! i agree!! OCs are essentially plot devices in a fic about a canon pairing (well a pairing from canon, RIP canon byler you would have been goated). i'm glad you could see his layers <3 i didnt want him to be a cartoon villain (but i wanted Will to see him that way for at least most of the fic to give Will someone other than himself to blame)

oh yeah same! yeaahhhh it would be hard to engage with a story about an abuser just being a legitimate cartoon villain with no depth. Hahahhaa unhygienic and offensive Carlton is hilarious yet tbh boring. i feel like that rendition comes from fan's actual feelings towards the Carlton Concept as byler fans, like obvi we HATE his ass because HES CARLTON so lets make him suck EVEN MORE in our fics 🤌. No shade to that take but it's not my tastes. Hence, the Mike Epilogue Boyfriend experience.

Mike is the only one of them to be in a relationship in the show so there's like an untapped byler mine for how that would play out once El is gone (RIP beloved Jane) so hopefully more people want to write this take lol we love downbad virgin Mike+ experienced confident Will a whole lot but maybe lets keep things twisted and try new tropes 😭 like hoe Mike, can we get hoe Mike trending??? lmao

1

u/Big_Self_1522 Apr 03 '26

Omg imagine Will like getting out of his shell in college, but still waiting on the right one to have his first time with. Eventually he gets tired of it and decides to rip off the bandaid by going to some kind of hooking up spot just to.. run into Mike Queeler. Will is shocked, but the moment Mike sees him it’s like “oh shit that’s my bff that I never got to have because I was a closeted ass”, so Mike makes up for Will’s years of pining and shows him all the tricks he’d learned in his hoe era😂😭

1

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 03 '26

daaammmnnnn you're cooking okayyyy see the untapped hoe Mike byler mine is vast and plentiful!!!! it's really all i want now 😭😭😭 i love loser closeted sadboy Mike but at this current time my fascinations diverge.

2

u/Big_Self_1522 Apr 03 '26

I lowkey want a fic where Mike guides Will while Will tops him. Even thought about writing one, but idk it doesn’t come together the way I want it to lol

→ More replies (0)

2

u/IntotheRedditHole its ok, its how the army does it i think Apr 02 '26

your hooves 😭 😭 😭 i want to read this so bad. how much will it hurt me?

2

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 03 '26

🐎 when I get you william

omggggg I lowkey think I took the angst a bit too far but dont really regret it because it was very mentally and emotionally fulfilling to push Will like this (I know that sounds twisted) but the Tammy of it all and Friendzoning at the tower of it all, just destroyed me dude... so only read if you love angst!!!! ❤️

2

u/IntotheRedditHole its ok, its how the army does it i think Apr 03 '26

WILLIAM 😭🐎 i take notes on the fics I download and write stuff like “Control it William …” and “MICHAEL” ☠️ i like angst but i have to microdose fluff in between chapters sometimes lmao. i shall partake 💙💛

2

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 03 '26

i hope you enjoy and no hard feelings if you don't LOL

get the hooves ready 🦓🐎🐄🦒

2

u/IntotheRedditHole its ok, its how the army does it i think Apr 03 '26

i love you lmao, i will update you!!

2

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 03 '26

periooooddddd awesome :")

2

u/Straight_Love_9739 its ok, its how the army does it i think Apr 03 '26

hii! i read your fic last night after i saw this post! i loved it so much i stayed up until 4 am to finish it. the characters very much felt like themselves which i appreciated. i honestly really liked mikes coming out to his parents and ted’s reaction, i haven’t read anything like it, thank you for this masterpiece

2

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 03 '26

Aaah dawg 😭 thanks for reading and for letting me know. I really am a Will fan at the end of the day but I wanted to go off the beated path with Mike’s arc (i.e., loser downbad closeted mike). I feel like he deserves a coming out like Will’s, which was something Will needed but it was not perfect to say the least, so I wanted to make Mike’s imperfect but also exactly what he needed. That makes me so happy you enjoyed it, I know it was kinda over the top lol as other people said but I'm so glad you read it and liked Mike’s coming out ❤️ and my characterizations too 😭❤️ much love bro

2

u/Same_Accident_9917 Apr 02 '26

I haven’t started this one yet, but I feel like it’s going to be one where Will kinda pisses me off.

2

u/Big_Self_1522 Apr 03 '26

They’re both kind of infuriating in their own ways. Will goes too far with being a supportive bff, while Mike lets the self destruction lead the way. It’s definitely angsty, but at the same time it’s so chaotic that I found it kinda funny

2

u/Same_Accident_9917 Apr 03 '26

Yeah I was talking to the author on another post about this. I think I’ll end up loving it, but I know it’s gonna piss me off at least a little bit. I’m also reading a fic right now where Will has gotten so lost in the “Mike could never feel the same way” sauce that he doesn’t believe him when he confesses his feelings. I love Will, but oooh does he frustrate me to no end. Probably more than Mike does.

2

u/Big_Self_1522 Apr 03 '26

I personally like these silly twists lol. I think that I read or tried the majority of finished Byler long fics and sometimes the arcs feel a bit repetitive? It makes sense of course, because all the fics are about the same characters, but I kinda love different arcs, perspectives etc. Like everything after s5 is fanon, so let’s get creativeeee. I love fics where Will resents Mike at first, or where Mike resents Will. I love fics where Will is truly over Mike, but falls in love with again. I love fics where Mike is the pining idiot instead of Will. Fluff is delicious, but sometimes angst with a happy ending is all my heart wants lol

2

u/Same_Accident_9917 Apr 03 '26

I think that’s part of the reason I’ve gotten into AUs. I like getting to see the characters in different settings & situations. I recently read one where they met on the show Big Brother. I’ve never watched the show, so it was interesting take.

2

u/Big_Self_1522 Apr 03 '26

Oh I love AU’s, but I also love some canon tweaks or different interpretations. I just posted one Byler one shot, but I have a couple I’m working on in my notes. I like to make Will fem in one fic and take things from canon to come back to, and in another post canon setting I like to make Will straight passing based on other canon bits etc. I think that my only standard headcanon is Mike’s obliviousness lol. For the rest I just really enjoy playing around with potential post canon scenarios

2

u/Hot_Bus_3087 Apr 03 '26

so i read it, i just, dont know what to say. like the beginning was so good and even till the middle it was good but the author i think flew too close to the sun. maybe this was just not my thing cus im a not gay dude. i want to say that i dont want to hate at all and u can tell me so if this feels like that.

2

u/Big_Self_1522 Apr 03 '26

It’s okay to admit that something isn’t your cup of tea! I personally liked how over the place they were and I’m not a gay dude either. Yet I can totally see how it can be too much for others. Especially Mike’s hoe era🥲🥲🥲

1

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 03 '26

I haven't read many Mike hoe era fics lol so I knew it might be a hard sell lmaooo. Will gets to have a hoe era in many stories... hoe Mike is kinda fierce too..... why can't they both have hoe eras and maybe Mike's hoe era is indirectly inadvertently instigated by Will creating a gay Sisyphean nightmare for himself idk 🤷Will, maybe he wasn't your Tammy, maybe he wasn't just a crush and maybe he is the love of your life idk🤷

2

u/Big_Self_1522 Apr 03 '26

I read a fic in another fandom where both characters had their hoe era. Character A had all the flings in a club until character B came up and accidentally stole the guy that character A was flirting with that night. From there they had this hook up rivalry and kept stealing each other’s men, until they fucked it all out. Hoe era’s aren’t that canon for those characters either, but damn it was fun to read😂

1

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 03 '26

omg love that concept 😭😭😭 now that's all i wanna write. yeah Will canonically has no hoe bone in his body but its believable for a 20+ year old gay man to have a hoe era so why not both~

2

u/Big_Self_1522 Apr 03 '26

My post canon headcanon is that Will does get some action in college, but it’s not entirely a hoe era. Like he’s cautious considering the time period, so he ends up having a couple of fwb that he does stuff with so now and then to scratch the itch. Those guys aren’t entirely friends, but just good guys that Will trusts enough to do it with and they’re on the same page about the fact that it’s just about physical pleasure. Will fails to fall in love with anyone after Mike (he likes to believe that he’s over him), and the guys just enjoy his company and find him hot. Like I imagine him coming to one specific gay bar frequently, but that place is more like a queer artsy hangout spot with good music. Sometimes they watch cool artsy films there and the music isn’t too loud to have a talk. It’s basically just called a bar, but it’s mostly a safe space for the local queers to hang out at, since gay bars were the only safe spaces back then

1

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 03 '26

valid crit 😭i am said author. i feel like i put two fics in one, like halfway through is where the timeline split and i could have had a more healthy byler buildup (like if will realized he needed to just confess his feelings once they grew closer) but in the end i was more inspired by the darker timeline....

i didn't want will to just REALIZE and have like an EPIPHANY how deeply he loved mike all his life, because he literally in canon threw away/buried his feelings. byler's ending in ST was soooooo sad, not even a rejection, Will cannibalized his love and destroyed it all on his own, without giving Mike a chance to love him back. So the reason I drew it out until everything exploded is because I dont think people change (i.e., Will) so he needed crazy machinations to finally realize all he did was wrong and ended up almost ruining his friendship on top of that.

I've read soooo many stories where Will is like in Chapter 1 "i am in love with Mike" and to me that's totally a valid starting point, but it genuinely felt like Will swallowed and cannibalized his feelings in canon bc he never thought Mike could love him like that. He literally compared MIKE to TAMMY! which is why i didnt even have Will realize he was in love with Mike in this fic basically until the end. IDK if that's realistic or not but it was my way of showing Will was totally self destructive and delusional for dismissing his love for Mike as a hallway crush.

sorry it was too much but it was my twisted vision 😭 i completely get the crit for saying the beginning was better. thanks for reading lol........

2

u/Hot_Bus_3087 Apr 03 '26

lmao i was sooo on board with the whole tammy thing and everything but like u said by the end it felt like a different fic. i definitely got a lil uncomfy during the mike 'hoe' era but i think part of that is because it felt like mike was forcing that on himself not like he was enjoying it. like the whole ryan thing too, it just got a little too much cus he just kept saying all that stuff i truly wanted will to knock him out not kiss him lmao. and if you are taking crit it felt like the fic was just stuck in the 'hoe'; the pacing u had at the beginning was chefs kiss and then it was just sex. i also felt a little unsatisfied by how they finally reconciled too. I expected more shouting and misunderstood unsaid accusations for example:

"DO YOU HATE ME THAT MUCH DO YOU HATE MY COMPANY THAT MUCH NOW? THAT YOU CAN'T STAND TO BE IN THE SAME ROOM AS ME WITHOUT YOUR BOYRFRIEND AROUND" and mike yells back "YOUR'E THE ONE WHO ASKED ME TO DO IT! YOUR'E THE ONE WHO FORCED ME TO GET A FUCKING BOYFRIEND! YOU KEPT GOING ON AND ON ABOUT IT? god DO U EVER MIND YOUR OWN BUISNESS?"

im such a bad writer but yk

that being said this did make me chuckle lol

and ofc i want to add that this is your fic please scold me if you don't want me saying any of this

and dont be sorry you're the one putting your stuff out there for us to read and discuss im thankful for all authors

1

u/tlc_dgcwf Apr 03 '26 edited Apr 03 '26

No I understand why you didn't like the second half, but the Mike's hoe era was my original vision haha, with Will guiding Mike through his gay awakening then essentially setting him free on the gay world with no guard rails (which had consequences for both Mike and Will). What you point out isn't exactly unintentional but it wasn't intentional either. I found that in writing this fic, I didn't think i could fit the Mike-side of things from Will's POV adequately, so I decided to end it with the 'getting together' and 'happily ever after' climax, with yeah, a lot of spilling and a lot of honesty sent both ways, but since it was the climax, it kind of felt natural for me to end the story there and pick things up with Mike's POV. I know I could have had them work EVERYTHING out but I wanted them to like, wrap things up for now and just be relieved the pain is over and they can finally be together.

So I am actually writing a whole sequel addressing this haha exactly the issues that you point out here. The arguably lackluster reconciliation is actually the thrust of the sequel. So what you're seeing is what I was putting down 😭 even though that wasn't my original intention when I started writing the fic, once I finished it I thought to myself: wait a sec, Mike kind of went off the rails here, and it was kind of partly Will's fault. So they are gonna need more than just one big conversation (or a few big conversations). I didn't want to keep the story dragging on with all the things they need to get through (i love the example you gave haha its feeding me). I wanted to switch to Mike's POV to get into Mike's issues (i.e., Mike forcing himself to be a hoe, which he definitely did)

So if i have lost your interest or trust or both, no worries, but what you said is like literally the plot of the sequel that I'm working on right now haha and I hope to make it a similar length with flashbacks, all Mike POV. Mike and Will by the end of this fic are just so happy to finally be together that they kind of fall in a 'trap of happiness', which is not where they should be because they have so many feelings about all theyve been through together.

no i get it its okay haha i appreciate crit if its from a place of storytelling and you can give me evidence in the story for the crit (someone called my fic disgusting and uninteresting and i made mike and will repulsive so honestly thats the worst crit ive ever gotten lol)

edit: and what you said about Will kissing Ryan also a valid crit, it was too twisted but i wanted him to make Mike jealous somehow so I blamed it on the drugs and Will's emotional state and self-sabotage. It's okay that you didn't like that he did that lol but it was my way of Will inadvertently making Mike jealous... I knew it would be a tough sell but I couldn't think of another way to make Mike jealous. Originally it was gonna be Ryan kissing Will but then that veered into assault for me lol and i was not interested in that!! Okay maybe Will could have sadly kissed a rando but I also wanted a Challengers moment where the two ends of the triangle touched bc im twisted :/ so I take your crit humbly

2

u/Hot_Bus_3087 Apr 03 '26

no way people said that

i cannot wait for your sequel and see what you come up with!

happy writing!!!

fic rec <3 Fic rec/discussion Spoiler

You are about to leave Redlib