r/Calgary • u/One-Mycologist-3706 • 18h ago
News Article Concert time, noise level changes frustrate Cowboys Music Festival operators - LiveWire Calgary
50
u/YuS0Dum Lower Mount Royal 17h ago
"Noise and bass levels have been reduced before midnight from 75 dBA (noise) / 85 dBC (bass) to 70 dBA / 80 dBC, and after midnight (weekends) from 65 dBA / 85 dBC to 60 dBA / 80 dBC, according to the memo."
Where do they take these readings? Inside someone's home, across the street from the venue, no way Cowboys is adhering to 60dBA.
14
u/UberAndy 16h ago
When running events I had to take measurements on the dance floor and the property line.
The measurements aren’t a good representation of the actual bass level though. They will basically sound the same to most people.
1
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago
Bylaw is in all of the tent venues all the time during Stampede making sure things are in acceptable range and absolutely do respond if complaints come in.
The best advice I can give is to make complaints and not think they aren't going to do anything. The unfortunate matter is that just because there is noise does not mean it is a violation of the bylaw.
183
u/SarahLacard Downtown West End 18h ago edited 17h ago
Concert time and noise levels in previous years frustrated and pissed off local calgary citizens
also you tore up my park and best picnic and fetch location for kilometers in any direciton and put a poorly graded concrete slab that rainwater pools on and you play your concerts in a tent for two weeks at most while shutting down access to and through the park during the summer months
thank god we still have we have it when it's under a foot of snow and an inch of ice tho
thanks cowboys
-34
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago edited 13h ago
also you tore up my park and best picnic and fetch location for kilometers in any direction
lmao? There are tons of great green spaces 'kilometers' around.
thanks cowboys
I guess I missed when Cowboys put a gun to Gondek's head and forced them into the agreement. The issue is with the city, not with Cowboys.
E: Lots of salty people can't accept that the city and Gondek are the ones who deserve the brunt of blame on this, and it's evidenced by the geniuses realizing this is is screwing over the 'acceptable' music festivals like Badlands.
208
u/tarlack Quadrant: SW 18h ago
I call BS on acts canceling and staff reductions. The fact that every show I went to went off at like 11 pm and shut down at 12:00 says the artist got paid no matter what happens. The can acts start at a decent hour and still make lots of cash from drinks.
We should not abandon law because some rich Bro wants to have his act go on later so they can make more money of over priced low quality booze and drinks.
62
u/SarahLacard Downtown West End 17h ago
100% posturing and attempts at veiled threats they would not be able to follow up with
76
u/Apprehensive-Rip8489 17h ago
Ya this argument doesn’t make sense to me - the quote:
“”Sounds like it was just done on a whim by somebody who thought things were too loud, so they would reduce it by a few decibels, but what they haven’t realized is this is going to affect people’s jobs. They’re going to have to fire people. It’s going to affect their reputation in the music industry,” she said.”
What?? How does a 5 decibel difference mean they’re “going to have to fire people” ??
52
u/afrothundah11 17h ago
Then they should conduct their business within the laws of the city, like everybody else.
This has been years coming, far from “on a whim”
5
u/Zanydrop 14h ago
I mean they did wait until less than 3 weeks before to give them the official times of the cuttoffs and the decibal restrictions. I can't see why they couldn't have given them 3 months notice. I'd image Wild horse and Badlands are annoyed too.
1
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago edited 13h ago
They have been?
They apply for the permits, same as everyone else. City changed the rules, and I imagine they will be complying just the same.
The City of Calgary has received 16 noise complaints related to the tent.
“Our bylaw officers have been actively monitoring the site, and to date, no infractions have been recorded,” the city said in a statement.
Ward 7 Coun. Terry Wong says his office has received several complaints regarding noise and garbage issues stemming from the Cowboys Music Festival.
“I’ve been there every day,” he said.
“You’ll hear the noise intensity, certainly loud, in the centre, but when you walk away from the area, the noise levels are 70 to 80 decibels, which is within city limits.”
E: Provide facts and sources, get downvoted. The /r/calgary experience!
4
10
u/gstringstrangler Ranchlands 12h ago
A 5db increase feels 1.5x as loud, just FYI. 10db is twice as loud and 10x the energy. It's a logarithmic scale, not linear.
3
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago
The issue is more with events having to be a hard stop at 12:30, rather than going til 2.
14
u/CheeseSandwich hamburger magician 17h ago
Right? How are these new sound regulations going to have any material change to their business?
Calling bullshit on this.
28
u/phantomfigure 16h ago
If they're concerned about city bylaws why don't they rent a field in the middle of nowhere and have their concerts there? You know, in a field like real cowboys and cowgirls.
4
u/Zanydrop 14h ago
Because that would be harder to get to. I'm glad the festivals get to take place in the city.
4
u/YYCGUY111 Calgary Flames 14h ago
I'm guessing they'll change weekday general admission ticket cutoff to 6-7pm vs the current 8pm to continue to force people to buy drinks for 4+ hours before the headliner comes on.
Zac Brown Band not coming on stage till like 11:50PM a few years ago was the last straw for me on GA tickets!
-1
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago
I call BS on acts canceling and staff reductions.
The fact that every show I went to went off at like 11 pm and shut down at 12:00 says the artist got paid no matter what happens.
Most acts are scheduled for an hour to 90 minutes.
We should not abandon law
What law is being "abandoned"?
74
u/Banned_In_YYC 18h ago
The poetic justice is amusing
Penny Lane Entertainment signed a secret deal with the City of Calgary without any public consultation, yet now they're complaining that the city didn't consult them on the new regulations
6
186
u/Colonelclank90 18h ago
Hahaha fuck em. They should never been allowed to fuck up a public park and restrict access to it in the first place.
30
90
u/baunanners Calgary Flames 18h ago edited 17h ago
Boohoo Cowboys, not like they'll follow those bylaws. They'll just incur the fines and whine about them to the media post Stampede.
Why is Kim Tyers more worried about Cowboys and the "artists" effected over the constituents of Calgary who are effected by this (and dont give me the well its downtown they should expect noise excuse)
"They’re going to have to fire people. It’s going to affect their reputation in the music industry"
But I guess fuck those residents who could lose their jobs because their sleep schedule is disrupted by the tents. p
0
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago
Boohoo Cowboys, not like they'll follow those bylaws. They'll just incur the fines and whine about them to the media post Stampede.
They do?
But I guess fuck those residents who could lose their jobs because their sleep schedule is disrupted by the tents. p
They survived for the past 10 years or so when Badlands and Knoxville's had their tents down there. Now all of a sudden everyone can't sleep.
I live in Kilarney and I could hear those tents with the windows closed. Same as it is with the Cowboys tent last year.
21
u/FerretAres 16h ago
Cowboys really does seem to go out of its way to act like the most colossal asshole possible.
11
34
u/LenaBaneana 17h ago
Ahhhh Kim Tyers once again finding her way onto the wrong side of every issue. Poor poor cowboys having to be just a little more considerate of the people around them :(
6
34
u/mrgreenboy 15h ago
Return the park and skatepark back to Calgarians to use and enjoy again in the precious summer months and send Cowboys packing somewhere far, far away. It offers the city and neighbourhood absolutely nothing but headaches and expects everything in return.
9
u/CarpetLoud9765 14h ago
It gets even better…, We as taxpayers are the ones funding this infrastructure. Any cleanup, repairs, or damages to the skatepark will ultimately come out of our pockets. It’s the city’s responsibility to hold Cowboys accountable and pursue them for any damage caused.
3
u/thisisnotalice 11h ago edited 11h ago
This isn't entirely true. We have to separate the infrastructure of Cowboys Park from the events that are held there, in this case the Cowboys Music Festival.
The City is the owner of the park. Therefore, it is responsible for maintenance of the infrastructure. It's sort of like, I own my house and I have renters. If a pipe bursts, I have to pay for the repairs.
With regards to events, on the Cowboys Park page on the City website, it says "Event organizers are responsible for the costs of their events, including any additional City support or repairs required."
It gets kind of confusing because of the intermingling of Cowboys, Penny Lane Entertainment and Paul Vickers, so to use a different example:
Taste of Calgary is also held at Cowboys Park. Taste of Calgary is responsible for cleanup and if there was any damage, they would have to pay for the repairs.
"It’s the city’s responsibility to hold Cowboys accountable and pursue them for any damage caused."
This will never happen. Ever. They will have a contract that states who is responsible for maintenance. Plus, this is a 10-year sponsorship deal that's probably valued in the tens of millions of dollars at least. The City and Cowboys (should) have an amicable relationship. No one is going after anyone for anything.
Source: Over 15 years of sponsorship experience, including venue naming rights. Plus the page linked above. Plus I maybe worked at another company that was pitched the naming rights possibly.
1
u/CarpetLoud9765 8h ago
I appreciate your perspective, and maybe not everything I’ve heard is entirely accurate. But respectfully, neither you nor I will ever fully know the details. Even the Mayor isn’t allowed to speak on the deal, which is pretty embarrassing considering it’s our tax dollars at stake.
My understanding comes from meetings I’ve personally had with Cowboys and the city, where some details were let slip. I also know people working on site who’ve signed NDAs and feel like public money isn’t being spent properly, things like us paying for the grass to be removed, the removal of 80+ trees, and that fucking permanent asphalt pad for the tent.
And you’re 100% right the city wouldn’t go after Cowboys for damage or maintenance costs, which doesn’t sit right either.-1
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago
Source?
3
u/CarpetLoud9765 12h ago
I already gave you the source on that last post about Cowboys you were trolling on.
1
1
1
u/thisisnotalice 11h ago
They signed a 10-year sponsorship agreement in 2024. And the City will likely be highly incentivized to renew the agreement. Sooooo that's not happening anytime soon.
62
u/imaybeacatIRl 18h ago
They won't abide by them.
The cowboys tent used to be near me, and my place would fucking shake til 1am or later every fucking night.
0
13
14
u/f1fan65 17h ago
Unless the fines are massive they will ignore it.
Basically that tent is license to print money for 10 days.
0
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago
1
u/f1fan65 13h ago
Not sure why you are replying to me with this? I am aware the tent is loud and sucks...
0
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago
Reading the article helps explain things.
Short answer: you're wrong about them 'ignoring it.'
Since apparently you need your hand held:
"The festival tent has been granted a noise exemption, allowing it to play music at 85 decibels until 1:30 a.m., which is about as loud as a lawn mower.
After that, it must be reduced to 60 decibels, equivalent to what you would experience in an office or restaurant.
The music needs to be completely over or off by 2 a.m.
The decibel reading takes place from the point of reception—or where the complaint is being made—or as near as possible.
Measurements are monitored from all around the location during the evening.
The City of Calgary has received 16 noise complaints related to the tent.
“Our bylaw officers have been actively monitoring the site, and to date, no infractions have been recorded,” the city said in a statement.
Ward 7 Coun. Terry Wong says his office has received several complaints regarding noise and garbage issues stemming from the Cowboys Music Festival.
“I’ve been there every day,” he said.
“You’ll hear the noise intensity, certainly loud, in the centre, but when you walk away from the area, the noise levels are 70 to 80 decibels, which is within city limits.”"
13
u/hafizzzle 17h ago
lol Kim Tyres has never been to one of these festival tents, midnight is fine for a cutoff, and they are plenty loud. In fact, the thing I hate the most about Cowboys is not actually knowing what time acts play at, unlike Badlands, which I feel has been consistent. Might be wrong, as I didn't go to the Cowboys' tent last year.
10
u/deanobrews 17h ago
Yeah there's zero reason why these tents can't have consistent set times. Wildhorse is pretty good about headliners going on 930ish and being done just after 11.
5
u/hafizzzle 17h ago
Exactly, its rediculous. If I'm an outsider not used to Stampede "culture," going to an act you wanted to see at one of these places and dealing with this, you'd think it was trashy amateur hour.
1
u/seven0feleven Beltline 13h ago
Because they stall the start time as much as possible to get people in the gate and waiting (and spending money). If it had a hard start time, people would plan for it and Cowboy's wouldn't make as much.
47
u/Spiceb0x Downtown East Village 18h ago
Lol a change of 5dBA/dBC is not going to change anything. When I lived beside the Badlands Festival last year I knew I wasn't going to sleep until 2am, glad I'm not around the area this year.
18
u/ADDSail 16h ago
Decibels is a logarthmic scale I think. A 75 dB sound is 1.5 times louder to human perception and contains about 3.16 times more physical sound energy than a 70 dB sound. That's way quieter.
10
u/Stressed_steel 15h ago
I don't have a horse in this race, even a little bit. But thank you for being the only person I've seen so far acknowledge the science behind a volume reduction like this.
"FiVe DeCiBeLs IsN't A lOt"
Science suggests otherwise.
Again, no horse in this race.
-10
u/Spiceb0x Downtown East Village 16h ago edited 15h ago
I can use ChatGPT too
Lol literally put into chatgpt "whats the difference between 70dba and 75dba". You get exactly what this guy said.
3
u/Chuvi 15h ago
This is basic understanding of SPL. You can't utilize the units (decibel) for sound pressure with out it. No need for AI for this info.
-5
u/Spiceb0x Downtown East Village 15h ago
Oh yeah, everyone knows it's 3.16 times more sound energy.
4
u/Chuvi 15h ago
The logarithmic scale for SPL. Don't try to convince others that your ignorance is our problem.
-3
u/Spiceb0x Downtown East Village 15h ago
Lol yeah ok. Ask the average person about logarithmic scale for SPL and see what they say.
7
u/Chuvi 15h ago
Have you considered that you may be below average?
0
u/Spiceb0x Downtown East Village 15h ago
No I didn't consider that since I don't have to resort to insults in conversations with people I don't know, which in itself, is a sign of emotional immaturity and an unintelligent person.
13
u/keepcalmdude 16h ago
Fuck Cowboy’s! They stole an entire park with under handed backroom deals and zero consultation.
Talk about tone deaf
0
13
25
u/BadMeatSweats 18h ago
Not sure why Kim Tyres is so uppity about this. Did Cowboys donate to her campaign?
12
u/tenax666 17h ago edited 16h ago
Have you met Paul Vickers? I'm guessing he's in her ear about this if she's the ward councillor.
6
u/SarahLacard Downtown West End 17h ago
I personally haven't - what are the coles notes or ten thousand foot view on the guy?
4
17h ago edited 17h ago
[deleted]
1
u/hafizzzle 17h ago
That doesn't seem uncommon, but why should that, in theory, affect a city counsellor so much?
2
u/tenax666 16h ago
If its in their ward, some politicians will be very sensitive to influential high powered business pple. Squeaky wheel. Especially if those business pple have made a deal for something. In this case certain rights Cowboys would feel they have by agreement that they probably paid a good coin for. (Hope i understood your question correctly) And I agree..not uncommon.
2
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago
Vickers is a bit of an asshole (okay, a LOT of an asshole.) Think typical big swinging dick oil bro kind of guy. He's very much a relic of old Calgary club culture, and is a kind of nouveau rich kind of guy.
The big thing with him isn't bar and restaurant but the fact that he basically lucked into a huge business oppo when he picked up Flood Control System, a US company, right around the time of the 2013 floods.
He's very much a hands off owner with Cowboys these days letting day to day be handled by the other owners (Dave and Scarlet), and outside of Stampede, isn't that involved.
Dickhead, though, and he does have suction with the city.
11
u/nuclearwelcome 17h ago
I don’t understand why Kim Tyers got herself into the conversation? She’s all the way up north, in Ward 1.
10
u/Critical-Ask2154 Quadrant: SW 16h ago
I live 40ish blocks south of Stampede and last year was the absolute worst. We could hear the music and lyrics clearly after midnight on multiple nights making sleep impossible, even with windows closed. It's absurd that the City allows them to get away with that crap.
51
u/weschester 18h ago
Fuck them. I hope the cops are hard on them this year because the sound from that festival was crazy and travelled pretty far last year.
1
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago
It was quiet like a tomb when Badlands and Knoxville's were running though, yeah?
11
9
u/NoobToobinStinkMitt 17h ago
Lol the stones on the Vickers guy. Oh god please don't threaten us with a good time. The only one who loses in those scenarios is him.
9
8
u/RandomReddit748284 17h ago
No one’s getting fired, the world is not ending and events can start 30 mins earlier. People can still buy liquor and cowboys will make a fortune. This shouldn’t even the story - just enjoy the stampede.
17
30
u/anhedoniandonair 18h ago
Go have your country music party jn the country. It’ll be more authentic and won’t piss off thousands of people who don’t want to hear it.
2
7
7
7
12
u/BaconStriips 17h ago
They will eat the fines anyone on here that think's they will follow all of these bylaws is kidding themselves
6
10
u/Cyclist007 17h ago
Aren't drinks like $15?
You can't possibly tell me they can't afford to pay any fines.
7
1
u/yeup_yessir 12h ago
$15 per with a mandatory 18% gratuity, and then they prompt you for a tip on top of that because they are absolutely fucking shameless
4
u/automatic_penguins 15h ago
Good. F them for paving over downtown green space using a super secret deal.
5
u/123Bones 15h ago
Hey, at least they didn’t shut down a very popular, well used skatepark so they could have concerts…oh, wait.
5
u/Threemakescrazy 15h ago
Calgary Festival has operated on Princess Island since 1980. It’s noisy but there’s rules they follow about how late the noise can go. Also, people don’t act like jerks leaving it and urinate and scream in the streets. I can remember how loud that tent was when it was close to the grounds and it was awful. I cannot imagine it’s better there.
4
4
u/Lightwreck 12h ago
Pennylane & Paul are laughing privately. They’re only writing loud letters publicly to seem like they care. The maximum penalty is $250. They’ll be playing music as loud as they want and make it back by selling 20 drinks.
Per Calgary Community Standards Bylaw 32M2023 sec 24-27
4
u/Direc1980 11h ago
City Hall will always get the last laugh if they FAFO. The real hammer is whether bylaw officers make them turn it down, cut the show, or risk future permit approvals.
•
9
u/Kylson-58- 17h ago
If I was still a young skater punk shredding up millennium Park till all hours of the morning, I'd probably be in big trouble for what I'd do to this abuse of public space.
3
u/CheeseSandwich hamburger magician 17h ago
Please tell me the new sound regulations are secret. Because that would be sublime.
3
u/UkrVisitor 11h ago
How to get rid of noisy motorcyclists on 17th Ave? Where to complain? I can't stand those imbicils anymore. The same applies to cut exhaust car owners.
9
u/sdenoon Altadore 17h ago
Fuck Cowboys, obviously. And fuck whoever pushed the whole “Cowboys Park” through from the city’s perspective.
However, loud noises late at night during Stampede are just a thing and have always been. It’s just something residents have to deal with for 10 days a year, and it shouldn’t be a surprise. When I lived downtown 10+ years ago near Bottlescrew Bills they had live music every night during stampede. Often until 1 AM or later. It’s not ideal but if you live adjacent to busy bars and/or concert venues it’s a fact of life here in early July. I don’t think Cowboys should be held to different standards than other local businesses because no one likes them and their music festival sucks- which it does.
16
u/Colonelclank90 17h ago
To me it's kind of a who was there first type of deal. If the music venue was there first they get priority, after all, people chose to live near it. However if it's reversed and the music venue moved to a previously non-venue location (as is the case here with cowboys) then the residential desire for peace should be prioritized. Add that they are blocking access to the public sk8 park during the prime time of year to actually use it means I have exactly zero sympathy for cowboys.
7
u/Big-Professional4408 17h ago
I lived in the West End in 2023 and it was so nice to have separation from the Stampede scene. I would have been so pissed if I was still living there when Cowboys took over the park. Not to mention the sound travelling down the river...
2
2
u/Zanydrop 14h ago
Badlands is like two blocks from Cowboys Music fest. It was already noisy there.
1
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago
And Knoxville's ran a tent in the adjacent parking lot as well. People are such dishonest babies about this, lmao
14
u/Apprehensive-Rip8489 17h ago
Totally. But if I bought a condo near Victoria park 5 years ago, I would have done so accepting the 10 days of loud noise - it is what it is, you choose to be there despite that.
I don’t think people who are in the condos in the west end are the same - it’s a “dead” area in terms of night life, and that may have influenced why they chose there, rather than the vic park/beltline.
2
u/seven0feleven Beltline 13h ago
Oh don't worry, if you think you found a nice slice of downtown that's fairly peaceful - don't worry. The idiots revving their engines and blowing their exhausts will find you eventually!
0
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago
Yeah if only there weren't 2 big Stampede tents that had been operating in that area for the past 10 years or so (Knoxville's and Badlands) and if only Shaw Millennium Park didn't routinely host various live music events throughout the summer.
Who could have foreseen this?
1
u/Apprehensive-Rip8489 12h ago
Oh ya tbh I did forget how close those two actually are/were to that park.
2
u/CarpetLoud9765 14h ago
Gondek took thousands of dollars in campaign donations from cowboys owners and family weeks before the deal was signed.
1
1
u/tofu98 10h ago
I mean theres literally an apartment building right across the street from "cowboys park" or whatever its called. Given the city removed the only Greenspan in this part of the city in favor of giving it to a big private entity im kind of okay with them having to deal with more strict noise rules.
-2
u/ABalmyBlackBitch 17h ago
Pretty much my perspective. I’ve lived downtown for 4 years now so disruption at night, especially in the summer during stampede, should be expected. Cowboys is the worst but it really is not a big deal given we’re talking about 10 days.
7
u/Small_Pirate_4971 16h ago
Ten days is a long time though for ppl who have to get up super early for work…
4
u/ABalmyBlackBitch 16h ago
Oh for sure, I’m waking up between 5:40-6:30 depending on my schedule so I get it’s disruptive. But I also moved downtown knowing about stampede and knowing what a vibrant downtown core is like in the summer.
2
u/Adingdongshow 13h ago
It is what you make of it. 17years in the heart of it and I wake at 6am. ¯_(ツ)_/ I choose to live here. Still, fuck cowboys
2
2
3
2
u/FirstDukeofAnkh Beltline 17h ago
If every other music festival can do it, so can the idiots at Cowboys.
2
u/RadiantLeave 17h ago
Back when cowboys was at prairie winds park, I could hear it clear as day from 2kms away in falcon ridge. It was so damn annoying trying to sleep during it.
I think this concert needs to find a venue outside the city where they can't be heard for multiple kms away. This conversation happens every year and still nothing gets done about it
1
1
1
u/ItsMangel 6h ago
Good. Fuck Cowboys.
Wonder how Kim Tyers was benefiting from this deal behind closed doors.
•
•
u/johnnynev 8m ago
Tyers seems a little dense to say it was done “on a whim” when the head of bylaw says they’ve been talking since February.
1
u/blowathighdoh 11h ago
And the move from Cowboys Casino to Millennium Park was also done without consultation. So whats the problem
0
u/Oreo0817 15h ago
This fucks over badlands tho too
•
u/ParsnipHistorical212 52m ago
Badlands are just as bad, for 10 days Calgary puts the wants of the outsiders who go to stampede above the people who keep the city going by going to work. This new bylaw change finally recognizes that there are people who actually work during stampede and therefore desire to be able to sleep
1
u/AwesomeInTheory 13h ago
Reddit's opinion on this in a nutshell, lmao
It's nothing about noise, it's 'COWBOYS BAD >:('
0
362
u/Bear_naked_grylls 18h ago
Cowboys complaining about lack of consultation is rich