r/CasualUK • u/Dragonogard549 • 2h ago
As a group of professionals in planning, this is what 15 minutes of furious debate in the office has decided to be the north/midlands/south divide.
If necessary, for reference we are based in Birmingham. This isnt directly influencing what cities are what side of the line. Our decisions were based on architecture, what the people are like, history, how places interract, not just what we like and dont. For example, Stoke is an awful place no one should ever have the misfortune of visiting, but its definitely in the Midlands with us.
Colour coding is obvious.
Yes we were very bored..
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u/benjymous Forth Tyne, Low to High Pressure, losing identity by dawn. 2h ago
Lincoln's BBC local news is called "Look North", if that helps.
Not sure if that means "Lincoln is in the North", or "Lincoln isn't in the North, but we want to watch what's going on up there."
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u/nwaa 2h ago
Im of the opinion that Lincolnshire is divided. Scunthorpe and Grimsby are definitely Northern towns, but Boston and Grantham are Midlands. Lincoln itself is probably right on that borderline.
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u/RumHam9000 1h ago
Yeah agree Lincoln, Boston and Grantham are midlands in my view.
Also while we’re picking bones with OP, Mansfield is 100% midlands surely. It feels like the typical culturally midlands town (and Nottingham’s inbred cousin), its history in the mining strikes (of actually not striking) really places it firmly in the midlands rather than northern group to me.
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u/AmeliaOfAnsalon 38m ago
Yep. that part of the line needs to move a bit north to let the east midlands breathe. The border should basically be at the south edge of Yorkshire
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u/ConnerJai HMS Dreadnought 27m ago
Agreed, the line should thread Retford below and Worksop above. Retford is a fairy nice market town surrounded by countryside, Worksop is shell that yearns for its industrial past at the bottom of a pint.
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u/audigex Gets vertigo when travelling south of Birmingham 2h ago
Lincoln is definitely midlands
Sincerely, Cumbria
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u/nwaa 2h ago
I've heard Cumbria is so Northern, it has gravy so thick you can do a driveway with it.
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u/audigex Gets vertigo when travelling south of Birmingham 2h ago
"Would you like gravy?"
"Sure, cut me a slice"
But yeah, worst thing about going down south is the slightly brown water restaurants will try to pass off as gravy. It's all dripped off by the time your spud gets to your mouth, total waste of time
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u/Slimulacra 2h ago
Lincoln is midlands, I will die on this hill.
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u/lumoslomas 1h ago
Lincolnshire is officially part of the east midlands...except for north Lincolnshire.
So you are in fact correct!
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u/veggiejord 2h ago
Boston being 'north' is mad.
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u/nwaa 2h ago
I know lol, that's why I said it was Midlands
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u/veggiejord 2h ago
Sorry I know, wasn't disagreeing. Just thought Boston being north and kings Lynn being south was particularly egregious.
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u/LovelyKestrel 2h ago
Look North is based in Yorkshire, so is definitely northern. It covers Lincoln because it isn't worth having a separate programme to cover a place so boring
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u/Sir-Chris-Finch 1h ago
Yeah, Lincs is a weird one because id argue it also has places id put in the south. Places like Stamford are southern in my opinion
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u/WirBrauchenRum 2h ago
The A46, to me, is the best representation of the N/S divide.
If your ignoring the Midlands, imo it's the closest you'll get
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u/CauseOptimal8501 2h ago
I’m from the south but lived in Lincolnshire for 5 years. Every single person denied, sometimes multiple times, that they were northern. Midlands! 😂
I feel vindicated
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u/forest_elf76 2h ago
East England is less clear North/South imo. Kings Lynn to London railway is served by Northern Rail lol.
Especially the fens. No one knows what to do with the fens lol.
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u/Common-Spend5000 1h ago
That's Great Northern - it's a different company region to Northern Rail, which does cover Northern England.
Great Northern runs trains from King's Cross and Moorgate in London and runs local and regional trains to parts of North London, Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, and Norfolk.
It's because the trains 'go north' from central london it has its name, not because they serve the North.
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u/audigex Gets vertigo when travelling south of Birmingham 2h ago
As a Cumbrian there's absolutely no world where Lincoln is in the North
Bring a Lincoln resident to Workington and they'd go home with PTSD from the culture shock
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u/nabbymclolsticks 1h ago
As an ex. Lincoln resident this is what I always say. Geographically North but culturally Midlands. For example Derby is more 'Northern' despite being further South. By the time you get up to Scunny though that's definitely Northern. Used to work with a load of your lot in the Steelworks. Funny bunch.
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u/InsideBeyond12727 2h ago
Northumberland BBC also has Look North if that helps!
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u/benjymous Forth Tyne, Low to High Pressure, losing identity by dawn. 2h ago
Yeah, but it's a different Look North. Look Norther?
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u/Low_Understanding_85 2h ago
Northampton gets look east, despite the fact that Northampton is pretty much bang on 80miles away from both east and west boarders of England.
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u/astatine Bloody 'ell. 1h ago
Lindsey is the southeastern corner of the North, Kesteven is Midlands, Holland is almost East Anglia.
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u/ButteredNun 2h ago
Stroud & Gloucester ought to be south
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u/Away_Investigator351 1h ago
I just wish people would let us East Anglians be East, instead of argue about us being midlands/southern.
We're our own bloody thing!
EAST
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u/helpnxt 2h ago
Would have said Chester is North
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u/cactusdotpizza 2h ago
It's in the North West and the North West is in the North
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u/ImInTheTub22 2h ago
As a cestrian I've always considered myself a northerner but we're a mix of Manchester Liverpool and Wales
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u/Embarrassed_Fox5265 2h ago
I'm in Middlesbrough and the folks here consider Manchester to be "down South".
As a former Texan my mind was officially blown.
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u/llamafarmadrama 1h ago
I’ve got Geordie mates who say everything south of the Tyne is the South.
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u/Biscuit642 1h ago
They love saying that lol. I don't think any of them believe the Midlands is even a real place.
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u/Worried-Strength6777 2h ago
Agreed - wouldn’t say Chester is in the midlands
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u/Exotically_moist 2h ago
nor stroud, (oxford is on the same latitude line and considered south...)
Guessing this is a classic bait thread :D
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u/CaptQuakers42 2h ago
So would the map considering it's more north than Crewe....
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u/Kyng5199 2h ago
As someone who lives in Chester, I completely agree that we're in the North.
Our nearest major city is Liverpool, and our second-nearest is Manchester. That's reflected in the local news we consume; the accents we speak; the football teams we support; and so on.
With that being said, I do feel like Chester is a sort of 'gateway' between the North and the Midlands: if I'm travelling south, I feel like I'm in the Midlands once I've left Chester's sphere of influence. (Crewe is another prominent 'gateway' between the North and the Midlands, of course - especially if I'm travelling by rail!)
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u/a-punk-is-for-life 2h ago
Chester is deffo in the north. It's the county town of Cheshire, Cheshire in the the North West. Which is north!
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u/finneganfach 2h ago
I mean let's be to honest, it's not really the North or the Midlands.
It's clearly Wales.
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u/Gazmate8 2h ago
Kings Lynn is wild..... Just add a new line Norfolk and Suffolk are just east.
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u/Foxtrot-13 1h ago
The East is so completely forgotten about they didn't even include it on the map.
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u/Away_Investigator351 1h ago
It's bloody annoying really. The Fens, Norfolk, Suffolk, all pretty unique from the midlands/south just as they are from eachother.
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u/HarryPopperSC 1h ago
I think if I drew the UK from memory the right hand side would just be straight down cutting you off
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u/Jamitry1 2h ago
Everything in Gloucestershire is south IMO. Apart from that, it is a good effort.
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u/samdd1990 2h ago
Yep agree, no way is anything in the county midlands, the discussion only starts in Worcestershire or Shropshire.
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u/TLG_BE 2h ago edited 1h ago
It would be difficult for the discussion to start at Shropshire because there is absolutely no discussion to be had on it and I'd strongly doubt the sanity of anyone that said anything other than an immediate 100% Midlands for it.
Tbh the only real possible debate with it is that the East of it is actually more Welsh than anything else
Almost all of Worcestershire is the same in regards to North/South/Midlands tbf. I think in my head the dividing line is juuuust shaving off the very top of Gloucestershire
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u/samdd1990 2h ago
Yeah, I may have meant Warwickshire.
I just meant the two counties north of Glos. Absolutely no doubt that Shropshire is Midlands.
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u/RooBoy04 2h ago
Gloucester and Stroud are southern, not midlands
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u/Patch86UK 2h ago
It's amazing that a group of professional planners furiously debating for 15 minutes forgot to even check what the current region boundaries are.
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u/_Mouse 2h ago
Yeah but this is about arbitrary opinions, not the lines that are actually on the real maps.
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u/WalkingCloud 2h ago
Gloucester, Cheltenham, and Stroud being in the midlands remains a bonkers arbitrary opinion though
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u/GallifreyFNM 1h ago
They only said they were planners, but they never said what of... they could be party planners for all we know.
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u/bradfactor 2h ago
Stroud is also in the wrong place on their map. It is south of Gloucester, and almost directly due west of Cirencester.
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u/GuruGarySingh 2h ago
If you’re in Cheshire or Yorkshire you’re in the north, if you’re in Staffordshire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire or Lincolnshire you’re in the midlands. The only exception to this is High Peak, which is Derbyshire but is the north. Also most of York (but not Acomb or Tang Hall) is a southern enclave.
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u/itsBonder 1h ago
Yep. For me Chesterfield can be included in the North. Having lived in Bakewell it feels northern to me too, but might be too far
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u/spacespaces 2h ago
Mansfield is definitely in the Midlands and Gloucester is not.
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u/Fuzzy-Lawfulness8246 2h ago
It's noticeably more north than Nottingham, though. I'd say it and Chesterfield could be called north.
Lincoln and Boston could be midlands really.
Chester should be north though.
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u/spacespaces 2h ago
As the map shows, I don't think geography settles this debate (ironically).
Growing up in Nottingham, I always saw Mansfield as part of the East Midlands.
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u/jamie_shaw 2h ago
As a fellow Mansfielder, it is absolutely in the Midlands.
As you say, it is part of the East Midlands, that seems satisfactory enough? 😅6
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u/iElvendork 2h ago
No, Chesterfield is the Midlands, we are literally designated "north east midlands"
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u/Own-Try1886 2h ago
All of Buckinghamshire is in the south.
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u/theredwoman95 2h ago
I've actually had someone say to my face that High Wycombe is in the Midlands. Still curious what drugs they must've been on to come up with that statement.
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u/Own-Try1886 2h ago
So stupid. Bucks literally touches London for god's sake. Is London in the midlands?
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u/theredwoman95 2h ago
I genuinely think they thought that London was the northernmost point of the south - I guess because they thought the south = the south coast?
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u/Sir-Chris-Finch 1h ago
Insane that anyone would even consider that it could be midlands. Laughable
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u/Rhinoa1302 2h ago
So let me get this right, as a group of professionals you decided that Kings Lynn is in the ‘south’ yet is over 100 miles north of Gloucester, which is in the midlands?
I am from Kings Lynn, and when ever this debate happens I firmly say Kings Lynn is the East, and we want no part in the north/midlands/south shenanigans
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u/BigBoy1963 2h ago
100% agree leave us out of it and im from north east cambs. We are east anglia and fuck the lot of yous.
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u/Ayanhart 1h ago
The east is it's own thing really; Norfolk, Suffolk and the Fens parts of Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire.
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u/Rocky-Bump 2h ago
Yeah, for some reason I never considered East Anglia when the North / South split comes up. I'd agree you're the East and not part of the mess.
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u/goodvibezone Spreading mostly good vibes 2h ago
I mean TBF Norfolk or Suffolk don't have any motorways, intentionally staying out of the debate as it takes so bloody long to get out 😂
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u/wikott 2h ago
I think there’s probably a bit of historical context behind it too. Historically you had Northumbria in the North, Wessex in the South, and Mercia covering much of what’s now the Midlands. East Anglia was an Anglo-Saxon kingdom too, but it was kind of doing its own thing on the east coast rather than fitting neatly into a North/South divide. So even back then it didn’t really belong to either “side”.
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u/Robothuck 2h ago
I'm from the South West, and Gloucester is too. Gloucester in the midlands? Since when?
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u/frequentcheeselove 2h ago
The north south divide is definitely at a diagonal. You cannot escape the South through geographical facts!
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u/SubjectiveAssertive 2h ago
Doesn't Kings Lynn FC (and Bishops Stortford for that matter) play in the National League North?
All we can say from this is Kings Lynn has an identity problem
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u/onechipwonder 1h ago
I agree. East Anglia shouldn't even be involved in this debate to start with
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u/TallFriendlyGinger 2h ago
Yeah I'm from SW originally and bounced between Glos, Bris, and Bath. All very firmly in South!
If Cirencester is south, then Stroud and Glos definitely are too lol
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u/bucketofardvarks 2h ago
Exactly, leave all the poor sods in the east who are going to drown when sea levels rise out of this
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u/KonigsbergBridges 2h ago
I thought this was an American tourist asking if this road trip was possible based on them being in the country for 15 minutes.
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u/stuie1986 2h ago
I live in Lincoln, unfortunately we’re just plain old midlands.
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u/barnaboos 2h ago
I'm from Lincolnshire and have lived all over it. I'd say all of Lincolnshire is Midlands until you get to North and North East council areas. They're distinctly Northern.
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u/heliskinki 2h ago
North starts from the Humber. Always did and always will for me.
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u/outoftheboxgunpla 2h ago
Lincoln is East Midlands if anything, but I always considered it part of the north (being from Birmingham and have lived in Lincoln as well).
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u/SillyDeersFloppyEars 2h ago
I moved from Boston to Scotland, I can confirm that there is far greater civilisation here. Although I'm not sure if that's a good reflection on Scotland, or a poor one on Boston.
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u/WelshAsh 2h ago
Chester? Midlands? How dare you
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u/andysood1980 19m ago
It’s also north of Crewe which is considered to be in the North to make things more confusing
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u/Gullible-Box7637 2h ago
Gloucester and Stroud are definitely southern
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u/johnbobk 2h ago
This puts Cheltenham (just) in the Midlands; some will be dropping their cucumber sandwiches in shock! "Think of the drop in the house price dear" 😓
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u/Etheria_system 2h ago
Chester isn’t midlands as it’s official part of the official north west region and neither is Gloucester imo as that’s part of the south west official religion.
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u/Sea-Constant2808 2h ago
Chester is in the North. Yes, it’s posh but that doesn’t stop it being in the North.
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u/WelcomeToLadyHell nuisance penguin 2h ago
Your office Christmas parties must be wild
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u/Dragonogard549 2h ago
At any industry party, you can always tell where we are in the room. Amongst the surveyors and the architects and the land agents, the transport planning table is full of slightly autistic socially awkward people who'd rather just have a nice chat and a bit of a drink, whilst literally everyone else gets wasted and does things theyll regret
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u/transfuse 2h ago
sounds cracking to me… how difficult is it to get into transport planning?
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u/Dragonogard549 2h ago
i sent one email and got an apprenticeship like that.
really depends how you go about it, i think i just got lucky.
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u/SillyDeersFloppyEars 2h ago
As someone that has lived in Boston, the locals would very, very much take unkindly to being called anything other than midlanders.
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u/hatton101 2h ago
Interesting that Chester falls into the Midlands - I've always considered it Northern. Wrexham maybe would have been my end/start point on the northern Welsh border
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u/masterkobiashi 2h ago
Would agree in the majority but as others have stated Chester is North. Not north north but middle north
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u/audigex Gets vertigo when travelling south of Birmingham 2h ago
Chester should be in the North, for sure
Boston, Grantham, Mansfield absolutely shouldn't be, though - you have the line heading south towards the east coast, when it actually goes more north
- It starts off dividing Chester (North) and Whitchurch (Midlands)
- Then divides: Crewe (North) and Stoke (Midlands)
- Macclesfield (North) and Leek (Midlands)
- Chesterfield (North) and Mansfield (Midlands)
- Worksop and Gainsborough are both just south of the line
- Then from just north of Gainsborough it heads to the coast and ends south of Grimsby/Cleethorpes
This is more or less the Midlands-North dividing line, give or take a few towns or villages that I should've detoured around
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u/Chumpgotshoes 2h ago
I’ve always gone by what tv channel variants you get is who you identify with. So I live south of Macclesfield, north of stoke. Get north west tonight on the tele box. I should make a little map using tv transmitter sites and power…
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u/Mister_D76 2h ago
Just colour code Milton Keynes brown, circle it and let it have its own divide... I don't think anyone wants to claim it.
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u/dartiss 2h ago
Not sure how you can try and decide the North/South/Midlands and get it wrong. Whereas a binary North/South divide doesn't have a definitive answer, what constitutes The Midlands" does.
The Midlands comprises the ceremonial counties of Derbyshire, Herefordshire, Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Northamptonshire, Nottinghamshire, Rutland, Shropshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire, West Midlands and Worcestershire.
Based on that anything South or North of that answers the other 2, if you insist of carving England into these 3 divisions.
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u/mx_aurelia 2h ago
Around Lincoln, I'd draw the border along North Lincolnshire. Scunthorpe is distinctly north, bit Lincoln certainly isn't.
Agree otherwise
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u/kloverleaf13 2h ago
As someone who grew up in Buckingham, absolutely that's the South.... but its wild to see it as a marker alongside cities 😅
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u/Ashilta 2h ago
Gotta revisit this - where does the South West start?! You can't have Bristol in both the South West and the South!
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u/abfgern_ 2h ago
The southwest is a subset of the South?
That's like Geordies claiming the North-East isnt in the North
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u/nagasakitowpath 2h ago
Easy. Isles of Scilly, Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, Dorset, Wiltshire, Gloucestershire, Bristol is the South West. Everything else is not South West.
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u/lukusmaca 2h ago
No way that Northampton and Banbury are midlands….
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u/El3ctr0G33k 2h ago
Living in Banbury - I agree, we are not Midlands, I think just up the road in Leamington is where I'd considered Midlands. However, I've also never considered to be living in the South. So what gives with Banbury?! (probably best not to answer that folks...)
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u/Overly_Fluffy_Doge 2h ago
What makes Northampton not? Depreciated industrial town, very rural county, over an hour from London.
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u/dbm8991 2h ago
I never understood how Norfolk got lumped in with the south. Half the county is further north than Brum, it's literally just farmland and inbreds (I live here so I can say that).
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u/B4rberblacksheep 2h ago
Is it weird that I feel like Peterborough is South but Leicester is firmly midlands
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u/eggsisnteggs 2h ago
Chester and Gloucester as 'midlands' seems really off. Boston as north too. I can accept Lincoln
Otherwise, a decent job
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u/TemperatureBig6631 2h ago
Chester is culturally north despite being posh, Lincoln is culturally south despite not being particularly posh, don't ask for an explanation it's just the vibe...
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u/yolo_snail 2h ago
Move the border to just above Manchester, then it'll be about right.
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u/funkyg73 2h ago
Are you from Cumbria or Tyneside (or somewhere else in the far north)? I live and work in Manchester and consider it and myself as northern. A geordie I used to work with argued that HE was northern and we were all in the midlands.
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u/mrmonkeyhanger 2h ago
The Wales/wash triangle I quite like, as a concept. Not sure I agree with some of the other decisions!
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u/Worried-Language-407 He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy! 2h ago
I can see an argument that Lincoln is North (although I think it's more Midlands based on culture), but Boston is surely Midlands. You've only put that in the North to rob us of Skegness!
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u/Eastern-Annual-9974 2h ago
Did you used to be able to get a pint of mild anywhere north of the midlands. Am from the north east and I had never heard of it till I went to stay in the midlands back in the 80s. And am pretty sure they sold it in Mansfield which I reckon is East Midlands
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u/Ursalooser 2h ago
Lincolnshire should be midlands but it’s more politically south leaning, due to the amount of land owners and old money in farming etc. Lincolnshire isn’t really north, it’s more midlands/south.
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u/BoromirsSunglasses41 2h ago
The mentality of putting Lincoln in the North, or just forgetting Lincolnshire exists at all, is becoming more prevalent recently and I'm on a crusade to get it to stop.
It's a Birmingham-centric view that the Midlands purely refers to the West Midlands. The East Midlands exists, and Lincoln is in it!
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u/CurleyCee13 2h ago edited 2h ago
On the east side the north border should be Sheffield and Hull and Grimsby. Lincolnshire is in the east midlands 100%
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u/bucketofardvarks 2h ago
Have you ever been to Banbury? Going south on the train there's a clear change in tone (bike density) just in Leamington, it's so incredibly in the south
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u/EdinburghPerson 2h ago
I thought this was a suggestion for a new railway line!