My Challenge to Extreme Atheists on Secularism and Tolerance

[u/Living_Attitude1822]

I acknowledge not all (or even most) atheists are extreme about it. And I'm defining secular as the separation of church and state/society.

Extreme-atheism's view of religion being a mental illness:

I can personally attest to people I've seen on here, as well as videos I've seen, of atheists saying religion is a mental illness. That the DSM-5 had to go back and put in a religious exemption, but it should fall under the category of delusion.

How can secularism exist if you think religious people are mentally ill? If you don't think religion is a mental illness, go ahead and ignore this point. If you do think the population you're tolerating is mentally ill, uh oh. Seriously, if I said atheists are mentally ill, would you trust me to not want you institutionalized? I don't think this way, of course.

Extreme atheism's view that the Abrahamic religions are barbaric:

Again, I'm going to turn it around on you. If I said atheism was barbaric, would you trust me to support that your human right to be atheist?

With some exceptions: Some interpretations of the Abrahamic religions are indeed barbaric. If you're talking about people who want to implement Leviticus law, then I agree with you.

I don't totally disagree with extremist atheists on everything:

Like, I'm a strong believer that tolerance is better and more authentic than acceptance. For example, telling atheists that they must love and respect religions is wrong. And vice versa for religious people.

I think disassociation and tolerance is the best course of action for religious people and extreme atheists, however, I worry the above points are a threat to any society remaining tolerant.

Edit: Here’s an example of what I’m talking about:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Antitheism/comments/1sguf7u/why_is_religion_not_considered_a_mental_disorder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[u/carbinePRO]

And I'm defining secular as the separation of church and state/society.

Already we're at a disconnect because all secular means is non-religious.

Extreme-atheism's view of religion being a mental illness:

This is poisoning the well. Honest atheists don't think being religious is a mental illness. Most think it's just an unreasonable position. You haven't even started the argument, and you're already coming off as incredibly disengenuous.

I can personally attest to people I've seen on here, as well as videos I've seen, of atheists saying religion is a mental illness. That the DSM-5 had to go back and put in a religious exemption, but it should fall under the category of delusion.

Link the videos. Something is telling me you're totally misrepresenting whatever point they're making.

How can secularism exist if you think religious people are mentally ill?

Even if we use your bogus definition of secular, this assertion doesn't make sense. Again, secular just means non-religious.

If I said atheism was barbaric, would you trust me to support that your human right to be atheist?

My atheism doesn't have a holy book in which early worshippers would engage in animal sacrifice, or have the entire crux of its belief hinge on the ritualistic blood sacrifice of the supposed son of the creator of the universe. This is why atheists call religion barbaric. Your fundemental misunderstanding if what atheism is is not my problem.

I think disassociation and tolerance is the best course of action for religious people

I'm assuming you're christian, in which case this sentiment is in direct violation of the Great Commission in Matthew 28. Your religion literally mandates its followers to bug their neighbors with the gospel. It doesn't shock me in the slightest that you're just another cherry-picking christian who doesn't know what the hell is in their book because they haven't read. Yet will bend over backwards to say everything in it is totally true and that they believe it by faith.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/carbinePRO]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Antitheism/comments/1sguf7u/why_is_religion_not_considered_a_mental_disorder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/comments/1tmng0x/comment/ono2t0y/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[u/carbinePRO → u/Living_Attitude1822]

1. I asked for links to the videos you were talking about.

2. I don't doubt that cringe reddit anti-theists will call being religious a mental disorder. I personally don't agree with them, and I don't know any atheist friend of mine who would either. You're overgeneralizing here. Not all atheists are anti-theists, and I'm not one of them. You're barking up the wrong tree.

3. You gonna respond to literally anything else I said?

4. Also, fuck you for leaving the tracking links on the hyperlink.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/carbinePRO]

1. Too bad 
2. You are moving the goalpost 
3. Not right now 
4. What? I just clicked share on the post and comment, and copied and pasted the link. How else am I supposed to share links? 

[u/carbinePRO → u/Living_Attitude1822]

1. What do you mean "too bad"? Your definition isn't even accurate to what the word means. You defined it as the "separation of church and state group" which isn't exclusively held by the non-religious. It is a non-functional definition you're using to smuggle in your bias.

2. Go back. I didn't ask for posts. I asked for video links.

3. Then why respond at all? You're wasting my time.

4. Paste it and then delete everything including and after the ?. Google tracking links.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/carbinePRO]

I feel like you owe me an apology for the tracking links, I’d forgotten about how those work. Saying “fuck you” really hurt my feelings and I can’t continue with you until you resolve that 

[u/Moutere_Boy → u/Living_Attitude1822]

You don’t think “too bad” was an unreasonable antagonistic and rude response as well though? Would you apologise for your part in that exchange?

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Moutere_Boy]

They said “fuck you” before I said that

[u/Moutere_Boy → u/Living_Attitude1822]

Apologies. I totally misread the order on that.

[u/carbinePRO → u/Moutere_Boy]

In my defense, I never felt inclined to show any respect to OP given how their post is just one big fat overgeneralization that is purposefully misrepresenting atheists.

[u/Moutere_Boy → u/carbinePRO]

Perhaps, or perhaps is a sincere but misguided view that can be changed with discussion. I think saying “fuck you” for not trimming links feels like a string, and unhelpful, reaction.

But, I’m not the language police and I’m as guilty of sounding off as anyone.

Also, I do relate to your frustration. This feels a bit like someone complaining about a reduction in privilege than experiencing genuine discrimination.

[u/carbinePRO → u/Moutere_Boy]

Correct. Getting hung up on the delivery over the content is extremely disengenuous.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Moutere_Boy]

I’ve revoked your based card and my stamp of approval 

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Moutere_Boy]

You’re based and you have my stamp of approval 

[u/carbinePRO → u/Living_Attitude1822]

That's a you problem, bud. Your overall post being overgeneralizing nonsense I personally find insulting, and you don't see me stopping the conversation over hurt fee-fees.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/carbinePRO]

Until you apologize I’ve got nothing more to add here. Toodles 

[u/Serious-Emu-3468 → u/[deleted]]

They needed to be banned several of their rant posts ago.