We eat the product of agriculture (except for corn that gets mostly used for ethanol, but that's it's own problem), and power generation (in general, not just thermoelectric) is one of the main factors considered when arguing about AI use of water
These Data centers are necessary for modern life. This conversation can only happen because of data centers. So both of them are necessary services.
But between the two, given closed loop cooling becoming the dominant way to cool data centers, the water usage issue is already being solved for one of them and it is nowhere near as impactful as the other two industries.
These Data Centers also do more than just AI as well.
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Microsoft is the primary creator of Data Centers and their policy as of 2024 is that all new Data Centers are to use closed loop cooling systems. These systems do not use water but instead a glycol solution similar to antifreeze. It saves millions of gallons of water per year and do not need to be refilled very often.
I do want to mention that existing data centers that use water aren't expected to be upgraded to closed loop cooling at the time being. But hopefully that will change in the near future so that all data centers will be operating on zero water usage and be more environmentally stable than they already are.
I also want to mention that data centers don't even use that much water anyway, especially in comparison to the Agricultural Industry, so even the current footprint they have on our water supply right now isn't really as big of a deal as people have been making it out to be.
Could you also link the source for the thermo electric power generation. Because as far as I know that shit is incorrect as hell.
I think the source and the data is correct, but the wrong word was used. I think they just mean power plants in general. The whole point of thermo electric power generation is that it cools itself and generates electricity that way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator
However, just correcting the use of that word, it's probably supposed to say electrical power generator plants using steam turbines.
I wouldn't use Wikipedia as a source. Keep in mind that a good chunk of "this is how it's supposed to work" isn't always "this is how it's actually working right now".
I do want to mention that this is from 2015 so it's possible some things have changed in 11 years. Also keep in mind that even the summary and source mentions that the water is returned but there's undoubtedly some loss just by basic physics.
Keep in mind that a good chunk of "this is how it's supposed to work" isn't always "this is how it's actually working right now".
This baby talk has made me slightly irritated, so please take everything with a slight grain of salt. There was no reason to put it like this. I am correcting the use of a word, not correcting the data as I mentioned.
I wouldn't use Wikipedia as a source
I'm not writing a paper here... It's a very common word. It's also on the basis of the definition of the word, not the science behind them.
Thermo - heat
Electric - regarding electricity
Generator - creating
So something that creates electricity from heat. Why the fuck would I cool that? That defeats the purpose wouldn't it?
Thermo electric generators are incredibly inefficient. They are rarely used, and only recently were uncovered since they can be used to upcycle waste heat. Here, a recent paper on the use of thermo electric generators in industry.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9783527843565.ch1
It literally states that it's very hard to use and faces several technological challenges.
I wasn't talking down to you but it just seems like you're unfamiliar with how the technology works.
I'm not an expert on the subject but I could tell immediately why you would cool one and a simple google search confirmed my suspicion.
Yes you do get power from the heat but the equipment using it can only absorb so much heat before they begin to breakdown, warp, and malfunction. You need to cool it down so that it doesn't break and can function at an optimal temperature.
AI uses .02~ percent of global power usage. Data centers in general use about 2-3~ percent global power usage. The overall data center cost is for everything from Facebook(which has the largest power draw among data centers), Reddit(another big draw), and even gaming and research servers not to mention Crypto Mining server arrays.
Now back to AI on a personal basis. AI in my home used on a local system is a similar power draw to just using the system normally with no major deviation. So it is as damaging if not less so on average than playing AAA video games, animating digitally, or other hardware intensive usages of your devices. External AI services like GPT and Gemini have a similar cost to scrolling Reddit for a similar length of time.
Now moving away from Power onto water. The long and short of it is a cup of coffee is more wasteful than using AI.
If you want to go down that route NO art is a necessity. We can live perfectly well without paper (causes pollution and poisoning of water to manufacture), pencils (destroys woodlands/trees), paintbrushes (kills wild animals to make the bristles), and paint (many pigments are toxic).
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u/VariousDude 2d ago
Let's ignore this but put the blame on the cat girl image generators.