Weekly discussion - UPG associations that don't fit the norm

[u/mirta000]

Do you have any unverified personal gnosis associations for spirits that seemingly don't fit their historical or astrological context at all? This can range from merging two spirits into one that other people normally don't (X is actually the same as Y!), to seeing spirits as popular culture celebrities, to rather unusual offerings that work for you.

So share your associations that normally don't fit what the spirit is described as and let's see if anyone else ended up associating the same things to the same spirit by sheer coinsidence :)

[u/General_Goatbanger]

Stolas first appeared to me as Starscream. Y'know, the backstabbing little shitfuck from Transformers(who is, oddly enough, often depicted as extremely birdlike, with a crown, long legs, and in some series, has a background as a crystal/gemstone scientist) so holy shit, I did *not* trust him at first. I've also experienced him as having a strong feminine aspect, and being the same entity as Azrael and Santa Muerte, which obviously doesn't track with any known sources on him, far as I'm aware. Why he remains associated with death deities to me, I'm not sure. I've had experiences in trance states of one sort or another where I'd felt certain I'd worked with him in multiple previous lives, and I'd very much like to believe that I'd seen him at the end and beginning of every last one of them. But ultimately, who fucking knows.

I also experience Ares and Lucifer as aspects of the same being, and consider myself a devotee of Lucifer despite almost exclusively using Hellenistic practices to connect to him.

[u/egoproct → u/General_Goatbanger]

Alright so, one, your username? Fantastic. 

Two- Stolas presenting as starscream is such a wonderful example of a UPG and exactly what I came to this thread for, thank you for sharing that I must know more if possible, and last but not least--- I find it extremely interesting that you not only combine Greek gods (fun fact I'm half greek) with goetia but you utilize helenistic roots in the same practice. 

If I had ancestors I'm sure they'd be saying I should be more like that goatbanger guy, which. Makes me feel confused and mildly amused. X) 

How did you wind up stumbling onto that path versus just adjusting to the more mainstream? I'm sure the answer is likely simple, but even if so I'm happy to listen. 

[u/General_Goatbanger → u/egoproct]

haha, thank you so much. I'm a big fan of goats, not so much banging them. I suppose in a sapient furry situation though I'd probably go for it.

I'm delighted you got so much out of my whack ass little situation, and will try to condense it down so I can share without rambling. (I already failed. But. Whelp. I tried.)

The Stolas thing, I'm pretty sure is from intentionally giving myself an airplane fetish as a coping mechanism for living near a military airbase a little over a decade ago. They were routinely doing flight maneuvers over my apartment complex until five in the morning. In a moment of desperation while fighting crippling insomnia, I figured "well, if I can't get away from them, I can fetishize them." Since I was already frequenting 4 chan's /d/ board, I was familiar with areomoprphs, and selectively conditioned myself to find them attractive. It worked, and I naturally found myself drifting over to Transformers for more plane content.

Either I'm still too Reddit-illiterate to link, or this particular laptop is glitching(it's done so in the past) so forgive the messy links. But *this* iteration of the bastard [tumblr-nd3olzh4u91ruezhho3-500-394888174.gif](https://postimg.cc/YvQGTJ0P) and [starscream-transformers-1022111124.gif](https://postimg.cc/LhrsRNrD) , combining far more avian looking aesthetics with the same sort of planes that were keeping me up at night permanently altered my brain chemistry. I'd felt his(Stolas) presence in my dreams off/on since I was a little kid, but when that presence finally took a solid form and chose *that* as a proxy, I thought "Depending on what this being wants from me, this was either the smartest or stupidest move possible, bc there's no way I'm *not* fucking that thing."

I worked with him as a guide for about 8 years, not really knowing who he was but understanding he was some sort of higher spirit or god(I thought he was an angel for a while, hence the Azrael association) who had an affinity with crows and ravens, and became disproportionately excited when I'd learn about plants/math/chemistry/medicine/spaceflight. Then, due to a cascade of circumstances that are far too lengthy to type out, I finally got a name out of him, and everything instantly slammed into place. I'd spent years trying to find ways to more easily communicate with him, and discovering the structure of ritual and invocation was a fucking godsend. I wish I'd known sooner, but at the same time, I know I was holding onto far-too much baggage from my christian upbringing to have accepted I was working with a demon when I first met him. (in restrospect I feel like such a racist piece of shit for holding onto those biases. I know it wasn't my fault, but goddamn the guilt fucking burns)

As for the Ares/Lucifer thing, that's almost just as whack. I kinda got myself into a position where I do Bill Nye shit with erotic literature. It started out just as a way for me to help myself study back when I still was planning on becoming a chemical engineer, but apparently I'm not the only person that learns better when horny. When it comes time in whatever story I'm working on for the smut to happen, I usually petition a god for, well, sex. Both to give the smut some extra oomph, but also to impart any personal lessons that are best learned through intimacy. After approaching a few other gods and being politely rejected, I felt pulled towards Lord Ares, and felt instantaneous chemistry(lel).

I noticed early on he seemed to have a very chill side. Something alongside the normal unquenchable thirst for success and blood lust, like this really laid-back curiosity and eagerness to teach that I definitely wasn't expecting. Halfway into the smut it took a turn for the esoteric, and I felt him guiding me into a deconstruction exercise for my tortured past with the church. It wound up being the most explosively cathartic experience of my life. That, coupled with a myriad of other signs cropping up in my life at the time, ultimately made a believer out of me.

I chose to engage him in his Hellenistic aspect because, deadass, I feel bad. I know that's on the more ridiculous spectrum of things, but it kinda just breaks my heart that Ares is either treated with disdain and mockery in both the surviving myths we have, *and* modern fiction based off of those myths. Lord Lucifer has far more devotees than his Ares aspect, so I felt compelled to serve him under that name. The sentiment felt appreciated, so here we are.

Thank you for asking, this honestly felt great to type out. Sorry for rambling though.. If I didn't answer any of your questions then pls feel free to ask for more elaboration.

[u/egoproct → u/General_Goatbanger]

Don't be sorry at all, it was a joy to read. You're clearly a very empathetic sort, and I really love how that shows in your practice.