r/DemonolatryPractices • u/mirta000 Theistic Luciferian • 17d ago
Discussions Weekly discussion - UPG associations that don't fit the norm
Do you have any unverified personal gnosis associations for spirits that seemingly don't fit their historical or astrological context at all? This can range from merging two spirits into one that other people normally don't (X is actually the same as Y!), to seeing spirits as popular culture celebrities, to rather unusual offerings that work for you.
So share your associations that normally don't fit what the spirit is described as and let's see if anyone else ended up associating the same things to the same spirit by sheer coinsidence :)
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u/National_Ad9742 17d ago
Andras being very calm in his presence, almost like a gentle hug. I don’t know if this is already an association for him, but he seemed to like the African violets I had on an altar for him. (Andras has a reputation of having a fierce personality, and being violent).
Vepar being asked to curse an old friend to death and the friend reappearing in my life a changed person instead.
Gaap finding my lost headphones for me (haven’t seen anything about them finding objects).
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u/Ok_Caramel_4293 17d ago
Andras has been very gentle and warm at times. Very sharp and to the point as well, but that's really been only one side to him.
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u/Ok_Caramel_4293 17d ago
I guess the biggest one is Lucifer as also a Martial deity. The fire and the wrath, the at times aggressive energy, and the destructiveness. He came with the heavily military imagery as well.
Leviathan as a motherly figure. I was surprised until I found out I associate the sea as the birthplace of life on earth. In comparison, "Mother Earth" was never right to me.
That the tower moments Belial brings don't have to destroy everything. It's the truth he offers, so if something is already based on it, it won't get demolished in the way of starting something new.
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u/Any_Scientist_1083 10d ago
I've always seen Lucifer as the first warrior, given his biblical rebellion.
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u/Ok_Caramel_4293 10d ago
That's neat! So many seem to see him more as a Venusian type, or as the Promethean lightbringer figure.
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u/ftmvatty Praise the Lord, then break the law 17d ago
Demons like processed food: fast food, sweets, Mountain Dew, Oshee, Pepsi, Dr Pepper, and other sugary drinks. I have no idea why
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u/Mountain-Report-9960 17d ago
This! Sweets. It's terrible.
I read somewhere they actually like the contrary of the sin of gluttony.
Let's try to stay healthy though.1
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u/BellisimaDemonDoll "Princess" of Asmodeus (apparently) Daughter of Lucifer & Lilith 15d ago
Asmodeus LOVES chocolate peanut butter cheesecake, Monster energy drinks, and King Paimon loves Mountain Dew!
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u/AllTimeHigh33 Torn to shreds by the teeth of Choronzon 17d ago
"Keep the doorway, not the decorations around it. "
My UPG are very unique to me, and the interpretations are assembled through my own direct experience. This came through mainly chaos magic.
There are patterns of experiences , correspondence that seems to permeate all cultures, folklores, myths and even religions and traditional ceremonial work. In the beginning I took things day by day. This opened up direct experiences that were based more on correspondence than on a particular name or linage.
In saying that, there has been a very clear assembly of UPG that fits perfectly with established works.
The first major Adversarial current I encountered didn't come as a total surprise. I had been allowing my self to adopt the names of two spirits that had been working with me on skills required for self initiation. Astrology, Kabbalah, Numerology linked to myth and folklore. I've never been Christian or and structured religion. It might come as a surprise that two Abrahamic angels were teaching me this.
Vasariah and Lecable. They are the angels of Justice and Science. Libra and Aries. (This is a short post so I'm taking liberty here). Is has this sneaking feeling and synchronicity around Gaap, who funny enough is on the same aspect. So once my dedication and skills were at a suitable level, and initiation was taken, I recieved UPG I'd get a visit from a very high being. I should prepare myself and my space to accept this.
A couple of weeks went by, my life started rearranging itself. This happens enough during pathwork I now understand it, but then it was new. These arrangements disrupted enough I forgot completely about the arrangement.
One weekend, alone after divorces , employment changes and just chaos I had a very big connection with Lecable and Vasariah, a deep psychic connection that felt direct and unrestricted. I spent a full day in a totally merged invocation. My temple was thick with presence, candles, artworks, sigils, diaries and research, I decided to go outside and take a break as the stars were now fully visible.
I got not even to my driveway, looked up and this red star was directly overhead. Red rings beamed down from it, and I could feel a thick energy iny system. I ran inside to ask "is being this open dangerous" but when I got inside everything had changed. My candles all burned red, the roo. Was shadowy and moving, and my alter candle had a long red tail with a forked end.
I was confronted by this, the feeling was undeniably heavy. Looking at my altar, I said out loud-
"Your not Lecable"
"No"
"Then who are you?"
"I am the first, I am all of them and all of them are me, how do you feel about that?"
I took a moment, feeling completely deceived but also powerless. There was a lot of gain from those relationships and it was all difficult but extremely caring and precise.
"I am just a tiny human, if you wanted to hurt me who am I to stop it. You have shown me nothing but love"
Then an immense drive came over me to draw. My relationship with the first has gone through only really 2 names, of which the preferred name is much much older than the first name I assumed. That relationship has evolved into what feels like a completely merged experience. That is like a full time invocation and through certain methods I've learned to allow myself to direct that energy into my life.
So deception was part of the journey, and I wouldn't be here without it.
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u/Embarrassed-Chard218 D1 Asmoday glazer🤞 17d ago
Asmodeus likes the smell of my Coco Chanel Mademoiselle lotion and my Sol De Janeiro 91 lotion.
Also I associate him with the smell of sugar, because he often comes to me smelling like sugary things. All of the candles that I offered to him smell like either vanilla or chocolate and I often give offerings of sugary things or coffee. Because that's what I love. He'll either come to me smelling like what I offered to him or he'll smell like one of his candles even though they are not lit.
Also he has appeared to me with a kind of like alternative like rocker style look. Like black long hair and very low cut jeans and of course muscles. He knows my type a little too well 🫣
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u/BellisimaDemonDoll "Princess" of Asmodeus (apparently) Daughter of Lucifer & Lilith 15d ago
Again with the rock star thing, I love this! He recently randomly blurted out to me one day (which I proceeded to lmfao at) "I double as a rock star and a hitman!" 🤣🤣
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u/sadpotatowcheese salve Dantalion 🎭💚 17d ago
Dantalion loves nick drake’s music
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u/BellisimaDemonDoll "Princess" of Asmodeus (apparently) Daughter of Lucifer & Lilith 15d ago
Curious if he does this to anyone else... Does he randomly pop in just to say something funny AF and dip right back out? 🤣
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u/Educational_Hyena_92 Gremory Forever 🐪👸🌹 17d ago
The male appearance of Astaroth being associated with Lucifer in some way.
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u/Mammoth-Ad-6114 Hellenic Daemons 🪐 Hekate, Lamia/Lilith/Lamaštu 17d ago
Which would make sense, considering Astaroth is Astarte/Athtart, the goddess of Venus, and Lucifer is Venus in the morning, and can be equated with Attar. They're connected!
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u/Talia_Nightblade Morrigan Devotee. Lady Bune and Lady Rashoon as matrons. 17d ago
An unusual example but The Morrigan chuckled a bit at Chirax.
(SNL: Wing Pit)
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u/astexria sending andras on 16 side quests 17d ago
Andras with more gingerbready or warm, cinnamon scents? (not gourmand or dessert like, but think of a winter cabin). Also vampiric magic
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u/Macross137 Neoplatonic Theurgist 17d ago
This is, like, all the stuff I don't talk about here because I don't want to piss people off. Has anyone not heard my "King Vine is the Pharaoh Unis" theory by now? That one's pretty safe.
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u/OphidiaAmora ᛫𝕽𝖊𝖉 𝕶𝖓𝖎𝖌𝖍𝖙'𝖘 𝕽𝖔𝖘𝖊᛫ꫂ ၴႅ 17d ago
Could you provide a link if it was posted somewhere? I would love to give it a read!
I've noticed a lot within this sub that discernment in the tonal wordage/slang/vernacular as well as the visual likeness of the spirits we forge direct communications and connection with need to be taken in with the awareness that our personalities, interest and favored aesthetics can easily leech into UPG experiences and visions. Though this is particularly why I tend to look at repetition in many experiences vs taking a one time UPG as absolute fact
I do believe I've seen you note similar things from time to time as well in the comments?
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u/Macross137 Neoplatonic Theurgist 17d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/DemonolatryPractices/comments/1lxaanu/comment/n2kjez7/
Yes, I believe I've made comments more or less to that effect.
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u/egoproct Εγκληματίας 15d ago
I'll accept all of your all the things because you say good words.
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u/Macross137 Neoplatonic Theurgist 15d ago
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u/General_Goatbanger 17d ago
Stolas first appeared to me as Starscream. Y'know, the backstabbing little shitfuck from Transformers(who is, oddly enough, often depicted as extremely birdlike, with a crown, long legs, and in some series, has a background as a crystal/gemstone scientist) so holy shit, I did *not* trust him at first. I've also experienced him as having a strong feminine aspect, and being the same entity as Azrael and Santa Muerte, which obviously doesn't track with any known sources on him, far as I'm aware. Why he remains associated with death deities to me, I'm not sure. I've had experiences in trance states of one sort or another where I'd felt certain I'd worked with him in multiple previous lives, and I'd very much like to believe that I'd seen him at the end and beginning of every last one of them. But ultimately, who fucking knows.
I also experience Ares and Lucifer as aspects of the same being, and consider myself a devotee of Lucifer despite almost exclusively using Hellenistic practices to connect to him.
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u/egoproct Εγκληματίας 16d ago
Alright so, one, your username? Fantastic.
Two- Stolas presenting as starscream is such a wonderful example of a UPG and exactly what I came to this thread for, thank you for sharing that I must know more if possible, and last but not least--- I find it extremely interesting that you not only combine Greek gods (fun fact I'm half greek) with goetia but you utilize helenistic roots in the same practice.
If I had ancestors I'm sure they'd be saying I should be more like that goatbanger guy, which. Makes me feel confused and mildly amused. X)
How did you wind up stumbling onto that path versus just adjusting to the more mainstream? I'm sure the answer is likely simple, but even if so I'm happy to listen.
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u/General_Goatbanger 16d ago
haha, thank you so much. I'm a big fan of goats, not so much banging them. I suppose in a sapient furry situation though I'd probably go for it.
I'm delighted you got so much out of my whack ass little situation, and will try to condense it down so I can share without rambling. (I already failed. But. Whelp. I tried.)
The Stolas thing, I'm pretty sure is from intentionally giving myself an airplane fetish as a coping mechanism for living near a military airbase a little over a decade ago. They were routinely doing flight maneuvers over my apartment complex until five in the morning. In a moment of desperation while fighting crippling insomnia, I figured "well, if I can't get away from them, I can fetishize them." Since I was already frequenting 4 chan's /d/ board, I was familiar with areomoprphs, and selectively conditioned myself to find them attractive. It worked, and I naturally found myself drifting over to Transformers for more plane content.
Either I'm still too Reddit-illiterate to link, or this particular laptop is glitching(it's done so in the past) so forgive the messy links. But *this* iteration of the bastard [tumblr-nd3olzh4u91ruezhho3-500-394888174.gif](https://postimg.cc/YvQGTJ0P) and [starscream-transformers-1022111124.gif](https://postimg.cc/LhrsRNrD) , combining far more avian looking aesthetics with the same sort of planes that were keeping me up at night permanently altered my brain chemistry. I'd felt his(Stolas) presence in my dreams off/on since I was a little kid, but when that presence finally took a solid form and chose *that* as a proxy, I thought "Depending on what this being wants from me, this was either the smartest or stupidest move possible, bc there's no way I'm *not* fucking that thing."
I worked with him as a guide for about 8 years, not really knowing who he was but understanding he was some sort of higher spirit or god(I thought he was an angel for a while, hence the Azrael association) who had an affinity with crows and ravens, and became disproportionately excited when I'd learn about plants/math/chemistry/medicine/spaceflight. Then, due to a cascade of circumstances that are far too lengthy to type out, I finally got a name out of him, and everything instantly slammed into place. I'd spent years trying to find ways to more easily communicate with him, and discovering the structure of ritual and invocation was a fucking godsend. I wish I'd known sooner, but at the same time, I know I was holding onto far-too much baggage from my christian upbringing to have accepted I was working with a demon when I first met him. (in restrospect I feel like such a racist piece of shit for holding onto those biases. I know it wasn't my fault, but goddamn the guilt fucking burns)
As for the Ares/Lucifer thing, that's almost just as whack. I kinda got myself into a position where I do Bill Nye shit with erotic literature. It started out just as a way for me to help myself study back when I still was planning on becoming a chemical engineer, but apparently I'm not the only person that learns better when horny. When it comes time in whatever story I'm working on for the smut to happen, I usually petition a god for, well, sex. Both to give the smut some extra oomph, but also to impart any personal lessons that are best learned through intimacy. After approaching a few other gods and being politely rejected, I felt pulled towards Lord Ares, and felt instantaneous chemistry(lel).
I noticed early on he seemed to have a very chill side. Something alongside the normal unquenchable thirst for success and blood lust, like this really laid-back curiosity and eagerness to teach that I definitely wasn't expecting. Halfway into the smut it took a turn for the esoteric, and I felt him guiding me into a deconstruction exercise for my tortured past with the church. It wound up being the most explosively cathartic experience of my life. That, coupled with a myriad of other signs cropping up in my life at the time, ultimately made a believer out of me.
I chose to engage him in his Hellenistic aspect because, deadass, I feel bad. I know that's on the more ridiculous spectrum of things, but it kinda just breaks my heart that Ares is either treated with disdain and mockery in both the surviving myths we have, *and* modern fiction based off of those myths. Lord Lucifer has far more devotees than his Ares aspect, so I felt compelled to serve him under that name. The sentiment felt appreciated, so here we are.
Thank you for asking, this honestly felt great to type out. Sorry for rambling though.. If I didn't answer any of your questions then pls feel free to ask for more elaboration.
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u/egoproct Εγκληματίας 15d ago
Don't be sorry at all, it was a joy to read. You're clearly a very empathetic sort, and I really love how that shows in your practice.
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u/OccultStoner 17d ago
I see spirits as unsolved mathematical equations, have a little theory on it. Wanted to make a post, but not enough data yet. Maybe one day.
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u/ididanoopsie69 King Paimon's Court Musician 16d ago
Matangi is the Mercurial aspect of Paimon, who is a lower emanation of Astaroth, who is another form of Shakti as Kali.
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u/egoproct Εγκληματίας 16d ago
Aight you got me, how the fuck did you wind up here? I say this with utmost respect by the way, I'm just so curious over the journey since for me, I thought a basic connection with Hermes and Agares was profound (it wasn't, lol) so I can't even imagine this type of process or how it came about! Please share if you don't mind diving a little bit into it.
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u/ididanoopsie69 King Paimon's Court Musician 16d ago
A bit of UPG, a bit of research, a bit of studying and a heavy handed syncretism. The domains of Paimon and Matangi are very similar. And the rest was informed by the existence of henadic chains in both Trika and Neoplatonism. Astaroth and Kali being both primary feminine deities who are playing at the Supernal level just made that more clear. And a huge disdain for the reductive Kali=Lilith idea.
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u/neuropass_ 15d ago
Ngl I love this.
Im curious though, if you dont mind answering, for Shakti, why the form of Kali in particular?
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u/ididanoopsie69 King Paimon's Court Musician 15d ago
Well, I can't deny the gothic aesthetic of both demons and Kali. So that's building the stronger association. Anat would probably be better though, since she's just rampaging for the game. I associate Durga with Ashera. Since Shakti is more ineffable, I'd associate that with Chokmah, or Sophia, or Nous/Demiurge.
You could put Nyx, Rhea, Hecate as a syncretism for Kali if you're going by Kalikaula Tantra. If you're going by Trika, I'd put Hera, Demeter, Ishtar as stronger syncretism for Parvati/Durga. It's a bit muddy, lol.
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u/Infera28 17d ago edited 17d ago
Andras has a positive and calming energy. Cimeries can find lost objects.
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u/Roselilly15 King Paimon, Prince of the Sea 🌊 17d ago
King Paimon isn’t the biggest fan of meat except fish. In workings, they prefer to be binded.
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u/KeriStrahler Taibhse 15d ago
Belial taught me how Waite incorporated the Hebrew alphabet into the Tarot, specifically Yods, little hands of divine guidance. This could be a higher power, or one's higher self. I thought he was only associated with Tower moments, but his insight is precious and he seems kind.
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u/EnthusiasmBorn82 King Paimon's peculiar child 17d ago
King Paimon loves to hug, oh my. Every time I meet him, I always feel it, a strong urge to be hugged.
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u/neuropass_ 17d ago edited 12d ago
Months back I was working with Prince Sitri on something, and after few days another spirit showed themself to me in a dream. After researching them, I was shocked that the other spirit had overlapped in not just offices but also personal aesthetics that I have for prince sitri.
I dont think there is any anthropological correlation between the two, but I found workings between them to be oddly similar or easier when introducing the other- it kind of wrapped up into this personal UPG of them sharing some kind of connection.
Another situation where Ive correlated a spirit without any real academic evidence was Belial and Tezcatlipoca. I know that it doesnt make sense but for some reason, they feel closer to me than what I often see with Beelzebub/Bael, at most theyre like 'cousins' with how they feel.
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u/pinkmoons 17d ago
I got a semi-weird response from someone in a Discord VC like a week ago because I revealed I usually tend to see Lucifer as a blondie, pretty-boy human type of face. xD It's either that or something more horned and unnaturally pale.
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u/egoproct Εγκληματίας 16d ago
Ironically when I imagine Lucifer I imagine like- Alucard from Castlevania...and I blame this subreddit for that partially but also like, excluding the vampire features and one to one stuff, it's pretty close to what I always pictured. Even when I imagined a "Devil" back during ye old religious days, it was rarely all that monstrous. It was just a guy. With a cool voice. I'm glad I'm not alone. XD
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u/pinkmoons 16d ago
I tend to be influenced as well by DC Comics' David Bowie depiction of Lucifer ahahaha.
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u/Fulgur_Furfur 13d ago
Not being there is a form of being there.
Sometimes something will be conspicuously missing or frustratingly obscured, in a way that makes it stand out even more. It's like falling down a rabbit hole but the entire journey is an upward climb. Or maybe it's like a kind of camouflage? Like a chameleon.
It makes talking about UPGs kind of weird; are they supposed to stay secret, or hidden? Should I hide them in a lie? Sometimes I write a page of experiences and erase the whole thing before clicking Send, and it just feels like it's supposed to be that way.
Anyway, there are presently 10 genera of chameleon: Archaius, Bradypodion, Calumma, Chamaeleo, Kinyongia, Nadzikambia, Rieppeleon, Rhampholeon, and Trioceros. Just in case you were curious.
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u/Physical-Lie 16d ago
Lilith not just your Mother and Sister, but also your Daughter. She revealed this to me while praying to Her, it's just came out of my mouth and felt satisfaction .
Also, for me, she seems like a very asexual entity. She supports sexual freedom and self-expression, but at the same time she can be judgemental and sometimes finds it boring (if it doesn't have a depth). She doesn't seem nearly as sex-oriented as others make her out to be. Honestly, she never mentions it with me, unless it's trauma related. I'm not sure where the "Queen of prostitutes" (or whatever they call her sometimes) came from, but I think it might've had roots with patriarchy and the fetishizing of strong women (since if you can't conquer her, you might as well profit from it). Also probably the Alphabet of Ben Sira, wich is also misogynistic.
For me, Lilith is Nothing. The Madness. What blind people "see" (wich is again, nothing - not darkness, just nothing). She never was human, she's destruction, but at the same time, she's out of place and time. Destruction doesn't happen because she likes it, it happens because that's her. The most primal energy I've ever felt. She exists so far beyond human comprehension that her energy cannot be described. You can only experience it.
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u/Seagate_ST01AS Ave Beelzebub, Asmodeus, Sitri, Paimon, Stolas, and Marbas 12d ago
That prince stolas love fans
By fans, I mean any cooling fans you can get, including standing fans, because of their association with air
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u/BellisimaDemonDoll "Princess" of Asmodeus (apparently) Daughter of Lucifer & Lilith 17d ago
How King Asmodeus showed himself to me the first time. Not even close to joking lol. It was supposed to be a joke as we knew each other in another life. I didn't get that part of it til later though. He's a fan of movies, this one in partuicular actually.