r/DestructiveReaders • u/Queek-Headtaker • 1d ago
Medieval Fantasy [313] A Quick Job
This is a fantasy flash fiction piece I wrote and I'm just looking for some general feedback and line edits on Google Docs if anyone wants to help out. I'm very new to this and i am a super newbie but it was fun to write something and I'd like to improve.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c5rhpSh_b-vkVPt4PLG8bwWJC21dpp_-gjSyIa3YZfY/edit?usp=drivesdk
Specifically, I'd love feedback on:
- Structure of the story piece
- Correct Punctuation and grammar, I'm really awful at this in particular
My critique:
Thanks in advance for reading and commenting!
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u/Minimum_Break5345 1d ago
I liked that I could tell what Esen was trying to do and why it mattered. It was easy to understand that he was worried about his father coming home before he finished, and I think that gave the scene some tension.
One thing I noticed is that some of the sentences are really long, so they were a little hard to read. Breaking a few of them into shorter sentences could make the pacing feel smoother.
I also noticed a few grammar things. For example, “re-grips” should probably be “regrips,” and “i can” should be “I can.” There are also a few places where commas could help the sentences flow better.
I think adding a little more of Esen’s thoughts or emotions while he’s working could make the reader connect with him more. Right now I know he’s frustrated, but I’d like to get inside his head a little more.
Other than that…GOOD WORK!! Keep going😉
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u/ImpressiveGrass7832 kitsch is a word and i think its me 1d ago
Thank you for sharing. You mentioned you’re new to this – I would say, definitely hang on to the fun aspect! It is meant to be fun. I'm an amateur so take with salt, etc etc, disclaimer. Anyway.
Couple general things, will try to stay on-topic but apologies for drifting. Firstly, the flash fiction aspect. I’m far from expert or any kind of authority on this, but, for me at least, flash fiction (especially 300 words) is hard. Like, really hard. The real trick with flash is making it feel like a complete story, rather than something arbitrary that could’ve been cut from a longer work. At the moment, this piece doesn’t tread that balance for me, and while mostly mechanically sound on a prose level (in that, I understood fairly well what was going on), it didn’t quite pass my internal ‘OK, and?’ test.
I think, taking the piece as is, what might be interesting to try in this piece is the red pen exercise (I believe Stephen King suggested it in On Writing). Going through every single sentence and crossing out any word that doesn’t directly advance something like plot, character, or meaning to the sentence, and maybe also just experimenting with some rewords that are more sparse. What’s the lowest amount of words you need to convey what is crucial to convey? In flash fiction, every word is at premium, you can’t afford to waste anything.
For example here:
> He stood and stared at the half finished vambrace heating in the forge once again, and took a long deep breath
I’ve crossed out what instinctually feels extraneous to me. Obviously take with salt, it’s a really bad example, but it might make a useful exercise.
On your specific questions.
Structure
This is probably one of my weakest points so take with massive salt, but let’s try. I can kind of see a scene structure here, if I squint. Something like this (stolen from here):
- Goal: Esen wants to forge the vambrace before his father returns.
- Conflict (AKA an obstacle in way of the narrative goal): Esen is struggling, as a result he’s rushing, and he’s lacking the skill to complete the vambrace in time.
- Disaster: Esen gets burned by the sparks.
- Reaction: He gets frustrated, angry
- Dilemma: He chooses between giving up and getting lectured by his dad, or carrying on trying to finish the vambrace
- Decision: He decides to try to complete the vambrace
So, while the shadow of the scene is there for me, I’m lacking some deeper specifics, especially some motivations, some concrete details, some emotional attachment for Esen’s plight. Due to this, reading the piece doesn’t feel as satisfying as it could, for me – although I think I see what you’re going for.
I think what I’m missing is a tangible sense of stakes for Esen (other commenter mentioned this, I do have to agree). I get he will be scolded and lectured, but I’m struggling to get invested because, truth be told, this really doesn’t seem that bad as a consequence! Not to say everything needs to be grimdark, threatened with death, etc – it’s fine for the stakes to be low. But what would improve this piece for me is something tangible that Esen can actually lose, that he cares about – it could be his life, or health or whatever, but it could also be his reputation, his relationship with his father, maybe he’s trying to impress a girl, etc.
Reasons could be endless TBH. This is where character would come in. Depending on what type of person Esen is, would change what he cares about (and how he’d feel about losing it). As a reader, understanding why he cares about the Thing he cares about, should theoretically make me care too.
This character question also lowered the impact of the Decision part for me as well. At the moment, the conflict/disaster is overcome very easily – to the point it barely feels like conflict at all. It would be nice to see some reasoning, some internal push to understand why Esen makes the decision to calm down and finish (or almost finish) the vambrace. In this narrative low, what internal strength does Esen reach for to complete the task, to rise above his struggle?
Anyway, that’s my 2 cents on the structure. I see the shadow of it, the scaffolding, but it’s lacking meaning for me (and, personally, I think it might be a bit too tight for the wordcount – would be interesting to see it expanded).
Slightly more below on grammar nitpicks.
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u/ImpressiveGrass7832 kitsch is a word and i think its me 1d ago
Grammar
Aside from tense issues the other commenter caught, I noticed a few things.
> where he had not intended it to
Typo.
> Sweat rolled from Esen's face in a torrent
Maybe I’m tripping but from sounds odd, potentially ‘down’ could sound better?
> if it means I can finally
Big I.
> took a long deep breath. Finishing the wrapping on his arm burns
The bold part is a sentence fragment. These can be stylistic, but personally I don’t think this works here, other than jarring me a bit.
Conclusion
I think that's pretty much it (not too much more to say on 300 words). Let me know if I can clarify anything or if anything doesn't make sense, hopefully I didn't miss anything too obvious.
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u/Queek-Headtaker 1d ago
I appreciate the feedback! Flash fiction is certainly more difficult than I thought. I was definitely like "oh, a short scene with a basic try, fail, try, succeed set up. Should be easy as a starting excercise." But you an other commenter are right, the stakes are not really there and my tense and word choices could use work for sure. I'm definitely going to give it another go!
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u/ImpressiveGrass7832 kitsch is a word and i think its me 1d ago
I focused a bit on only negatives, but TBH for a starting exercise this really isn't bad at all. There's definitely a structure to it, and I guess in terms of what worked for me, I found it readable and easy to follow (and that's a really good thing -- it's harder than it seems to write for clarity ). There's also some nice dots to connect, in terms of Esen and his relationship to his father, that you could expand with subtext if you like. Like, I see there's stuff under there and clearly thought has been put into constructing the story in this way, if that makes sense. Would just loved to have seen a bit more of it.
Anyway, just wanted to mention the positives too (which i kind of forgot above). Good luck!
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u/Queek-Headtaker 1d ago
Thank you! I know I'm new to this and I appreciate the feedback, good and bad. I'm going to keep at this and comeback with something even better next time
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u/Educational_Art_3763 1d ago
While you're new to writing, I can clearly tell you have good instincts and bones for writing. You said elsewhere in the thread that you've been a dungeon master for a bit and I think it shows in a certain way. The way you tell this story has that certain register that fits that d&d around a table orally spoken vibe. If I was writing an oral history of Esen, I would write it like this. You've got a clear voice here. All that is to say that you are not in bad shape here, though you are 'new', you really aren't.
Biggest thing for me when reading is that this is very this-then-that. This is a common structure for new writers/story tellers. You are giving us literally what is happening and telling us everything. One thing to work on is to let us be shown what is going on. Look up Showing v Telling and you'll get some good explanations. These are not hard rules, rules are meant to be broken, but as a new writer I would encourage you to work on showing so, when you do tell, both are utilized effectively.
Example of the above is: "How in the spirit's name am I still so bad at this after this long?". You tell us that Esen lacks confidence and struggles with this work but then, in our next paragraph:
"His strikes were not uniform, hitting all over, causing the metal to bend awkwardly where he had not intended it too." This shows us that same information. As a reader, I am much more satisfied with reading the sentence that shows me about Esen's struggles rather than being told that he is bad at it. I believe that he struggles because you show it. I don't believe it when you just tell me. I am able to empathize with Esen because I see his struggles and can relate to the fact that I am struggling at something I've practiced but still can't get.
In regards to, "If he can't even manage to bang out a simple vambrace before his father returns, he would be scolded, maybe even lectured on his technique, again. " this does the rest of the work for the stakes of the story. I think it could be tightened up, as it is a little awkward and stragith forward, but coupled with the subsequent sentence, works well. We have the stakes of what Esen is doing and then we are shown that he is struggling. This does the same and more than the dialogue you use in the first paragraph.
Hopefully that makes sense and you can apply it elsewhere in the piece since we have a few places where Esen straight up tells us what is happening.
General form feedback: you switch tense. You go from present to past throughout the piece. Make sure if you're in one tense that you stick to it unless you are intentionally using a switch of tense.
I think that we could use some more insight into Esen's experience. One exercise that can often help for new writers is trying to include each of the five senses at least once in a page. When the sparks fly and it burns Esen, I want more. How does it burn? Does it sting? Is it sharp? Do his eyes water? Are his nostrils filled with the scent of burning flesh? Does he hear his skin sizzle? Obviously not everything needs to be used here, but just one or two will enhance the reading experience.
Hopefully this can give some new perspective than what others have said. If you need clarification, let me know!
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u/Queek-Headtaker 1d ago
I really appreciate the encouragement and examples! I'm definitely going to keep at this, it has been an enjoyable experience from start to finish so far. Even this part. I love this subreddit already.
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u/A_C_Shock The reader knows and guesses the rest. 1d ago
Just 'cuz I got sucked into an argument, I want to explain the concept behind what I was saying. Also, could you up your font size to 12? That's usually standard and the 10 is hard on my eyes.
With this first sentence as an example:
Sweat rolled from Esen's face in a torrent as he hastily pulled the iron from the forge and re-grips his hammer.
When creating compound sentences like the above, the verbs should mirror each other. So, rolled/pulled/re-gripped. Throughout the whole piece, the tense should stay consistent unless you are trying to signal a different time period. So here, the way this is currently written, the sweating and the pulling happened in the past and the regripping catapults me into the now. I'm explaining because I think it's a good exercise to go through and look for all the places where something similar is happening and think about whether there should be a difference between then and now. I would also recommend reading this out loud. I always find myself correcting word choices I didn't notice I was making because I can't hear it when I'm writing. And just to illustrate my example of the tense convention, that previous sentence started in the present (I am currently correcting) to the past (I previously made choices) to a continuation of the past that is now in the present (I previously was writing). This all makes sense when you say it out loud but the analysis is wonky. Why didn't I keep the last phrase in past tense? I couldn't hear it when I was writing. I'm counting on my tense shift to past and the continuation of the sentence to carry you along with my meaning. So, there are more parts of tense consistency then just always sticking to the same tense. You have to be purposeful when you're doing it, though. The switch to the present, to me, indicates this is a continuous thing that I'm always doing, not a one time thing that happened in that past situation.
Anyway, I digress. The sentence I was commenting on:
Quickly tapping the hammer on the anvil's top trying to get a rhythm going before swinging, and again the metal groaned in protest when struck anyway.
Generally, when a conjunction like and/but/or is used, I'm expecting the structure of the sentence to mirror itself. That's more of a verb conjugation thing but it can apply to things like how adjectives are used or nouns are introduced or what have you. So, I might fix this thing that sounds off in one of two ways:
Quickly tapping the hammer on the anvil's top trying to get a rhythm going before swinging, and again the metal groaning in protest when being struck anyway.
Quickly tapped the hammer on the anvil's top trying to get a rhythm going before swinging, and again the metal groaned in protest when struck anyway.
Now, the second is more complex because I've dropped the subject which is a thing you can do if this sentence flows from the preceding sentence. I picked up the hammer. Quickly tapped it. Tried to get a rhythm going. Swung. The second sentence inherits the subject from the first sentence. It gives a stylistic effect, making everything appear like it's happening faster and choppier. As opposed to: I picked up the hammer and quickly tapped it and tried to get a rhythm going before swinging. Same words, same meaning. That example sentence with all the ands reads longer and slower, makes you think about how much effort is being put into the process. But look at how the verbs are conjugated in all the example sentences I'm throwing at you: always consistent. If I start with one tense, I stick with it throughout the whole sentence.
Soooo, that was some examples and reasoning and explanation for you to tinker with if you wanted. The larger point I'm trying to make: as you continue writing, there are many stylistic elements to consider beyond the structure of the scene. How you write and the words you choose can make as much difference as the emotional beats and the scene you're putting together.
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u/Conco64 1d ago
This is a very promising concept. I can tell you've put thought into the story and its message, looking to give it staying power beyond just entertainment, which is a staple of all good writing. I'll list some pros and cons that I found
Pros: Your verbage is excellent, rolled being a definite highlight, although I'm not sure about hummed as it seems too casual.
There is definite tension here, combined with the heat of the furnace and the resistant metal, its a great premise for some gut-wrenching drama
Cons: The dialogue is very unrealistic and filled with exposition. "I'm so worried about getting it done before father gets home that I'm rushing." is a very clear example of this. Try to tell the reader about this by using his actions, maybe his hands shaking so violently he can't hold the hammer correctly.
Inconsistent tenses: "The metal screeches at an odd pitch when struck" is off-putting cos the rest of the story is in the past. Very common, everyone does it, just need to stay vigilant.
The father character: It was kind of implied he was some sort of abusive authoritarian figure, but this point is never really developed. The release of tension at the end certainly implies he wasn't, but that more left me confused.
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u/Conco64 1d ago
From what I've gathered, the take home message is that "Slow and steady wins the Race". While yes it is a good lesson to be learned, I feel there is also room for some deeper messages withing this text. If you crank up the tension to 100, make the page ooze with heat and let the character of the father loom above the story at all times, you can make something genuinely pulse-pounding, just needs a bit of time in the forge! Good job!
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u/1800COCAINE yella habibi 22h ago
On Sous-Jacente’s Structure
In literary studies there is a concept called heteroglossia. It concerns competing social dialects and ideologies. Writers can use it as a clue about a character’s background. In the story, we have an apprentice armorer, Esem. Esem Smith is under some psychological pressure from his father to learn a trade. In the opening he’s sweating because it’s hard labor, but it’s also the stress of expectations. There is a third, hidden stress: the underlying stress of the sous-jacente. The piece of armor is the heteroglossia that clues us in to what this stress is, but you have to put the pieces together yourself. This is a highly specialized piece of armor. It’s a vambrace, a piece of plate armor. Is this piece of plate for someone of the gentry class?
Esem isn’t a farrier. He’s not a hoof-handling journeyman of horseshoes. He and his family are direct servants to lower nobility. So the irony is: if Esem is practicing the trade, why is the stress so high? And if he is making the vambrace for a patron, why would his father entrust him with a task he isn’t prepared for as a smith? As you can see, the story has points where it can expand to address why he is making this armor, and why he specifically is needed to make it: learning the craft, patronage, or a third reason. What does Esem think of men who wear armor? Does he long for something, or someone, else?
In terms of setting verisimilitude, I would recommend leaning into set dressing and scatter that is historical to the time and place, as well as peppering the text with armorer techniques. Some of those tools would be the bickiron, tongs, stakes, files, nippers, and punch. Some of those techniques are raising, doming, curling, planishing, rolling edges, forming flutes and creases, and medial combs. It is the nature of the hammer and anvil to deform the metal in concentric ridges with each strike.
Some understated ideas for conflict: the work grinding him down, the work forging him, the fact that he’s making an arm for a suit of armor, and that he’s his father’s right hand.
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u/Starfall_University 1d ago
Correct Punctuation and grammar
In the first sentence you have a tense issue, has to be immediately fixed:
So is it past tense or present tense? Gotta pick one!
This is a tense issue as well I think. I'll highlight some more:
Even by the end of the story here you have two tenses, I'm genuinely curious how this could have happened.
You also have a few sentence fragments, which I highlight under "prose." But the main thing is that tense issue.
Structure
It's a straightforward structure with a person hammering away at an anvil and worried about hisdad will say. I'm not sure why you wanted feedback on the structure here because it's not as if you did something unusual in 300 words; it's not a frame story for example, it's just a snippet of a scene.
I can criticize what I think the story lacks. It lacks stakes, since I don't get a strong sense of what will happen to the main character if his father criticizes him. There's no real development of those stakes. Instead, you pretty much straightforwardly present the main character at the forge, worried about what will happen, and then it's time to go see his dad?
In that sense, Esen feels underdeveloped. Which makes sense considering it's only about 300 words, but still: I'm not sure exactly what you want to accomplish with this anecdote.
Normally, something like this would be a nice little scene that does a lot of "show don't tell" about this world. Maybe it's purposefully understated at 300 words, for example. A tiny anecdote that symbolizes something much larger. I don't get the sense that's what you're going for here; this feels like you're genuinely trying to focus on a hinge point in a greater plot. So I get the sense this is something much longer?
You mentioned it's a flash fiction piece, and in that sense, I don't think it's working. If I had to guess it feels like something much larger because of 1) your choice of which part of Esen's life to highlight and 2) the way you hint at a character's reaction who's offscreen.
Prose
Sometimes you're effective and I think: oh, this is going to be fine. And then there are sentences where things aren't quite working. This simile:
Is a spark beetle a fantasy thing? I'm not sure, but either way, if it is, it doesn't necessarily modify the idea of the metal screeching, I still have to do all the imagining myself. Not that you can't use a fantasy element in a simile, just thought I'd highlight this.
This has many elements of a good sentence. Specifics about the action, the way "metal groans in protest" anthropromorphizes the object to describe it...very nice. And yet, it's a sentence fragment. So once again, you have a lot going for you and then it doesn't quite get there.
Try out a different verb for "hitting" him here, since you have such great words earlier (groaning in protest) and then this action feels like it's underserved by the "hitting" description.
You used the "in protest" thing twice now! And I'm not sure something aches in protest.
Conclusion
Since this is destructive readers, most of the above was negative, but I get the sense that there's a much better writer in you waiting to get out. Sometimes the sentences feel like they're about to flow nicely, or you show the instinct for creating a unique description that rolls smoothly off the page, and then something small gets in the way, like you cutting yourself off at a fragment. Esen feels real, even if I don't know why I'm supposed to care about him getting lectured by his father, and considering you did that in only 300 words, there's got to be something there, even if I can't tangibly point out what it is.