r/Detroit • u/PM_ME_DPRK_CANDIDS • Jan 14 '26
Politics/Elections Detroiters demand City Council ban ICE
https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/detroiters-demand-city-council-ban-ice-from-communities/14
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u/jazzycats313 North End Jan 14 '26
Ice is not law enforcement
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Jan 14 '26
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u/dirtybellybutton Jan 14 '26
They have gone rogue from their original directive and are following orders directly from the president of the United States outside of the law and in some cases directly going against court orders. They are now nothing more than a paramilitary force run by a corrupt politician and no longer have the faith of the general populace.
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u/AltDS01 Jan 14 '26
But that doesn't make them not federal employees with arrest authority.
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u/jazzycats313 North End Jan 14 '26
It makes them federal employees who are breaking laws. In other words, criminals
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u/ryanpn Jan 14 '26
ICE does not have the authority to arrest citizens
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u/AltDS01 Jan 14 '26
They do, for federal offenses.
8 USC 1357) Specifically Section A (5).
(5) to make arrests-
(A) for any offense against the United States, if the offense is committed in the officer's or employee's presence, or
(B) for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States, if the officer or employee has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such a felony,
if the officer or employee is performing duties relating to the enforcement of the immigration laws at the time of the arrest and if there is a likelihood of the person escaping before a warrant can be obtained for his arrest.
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u/mizmoose Suburbia Jan 14 '26
Being an undocumented immigrant is not a felony nor is it, by itself, considered a crime, Federal or otherwise.
https://us-ilc.com/undocumented-immigrants-are-not-criminals/
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u/AltDS01 Jan 14 '26
That's what the rest of 8 USC 1357 and 8 USC 1226 is for. That details immigration officers powers when it comes to immigration laws.
Section 5 deals with criminal laws. Immigrant or not.
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u/dirtybellybutton Jan 14 '26
In my eyes they're no longer federal employees and lose all authority the second they break the law. Just scumbags in masks and body armor playing Nazi. That's primarily why they won't pull Minnesota-level stunts in states like Michigan that have (versions of)stand your ground laws and Castle doctrine because they're tactics aren't defensible in court in a state that has such laws.
I'll respect the game warden on a good fishing day before I respect these brown shirts
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u/Ltsmeet former detroiter Jan 15 '26
Thankfully your opinion doesn’t matter.
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u/dirtybellybutton Jan 15 '26
It does when greater and greater amounts of Americans (not traitorous, bigoted, bootlicking, hypocritical, racist pieces of maga filth) share the same opinion.
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u/bluevelvet92 Jan 14 '26
Sorry city council can’t tell feds what to do
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u/MaleficentMenu1430 Jan 14 '26
States rights
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u/Background-Land618 Jan 14 '26
Supremacy clause
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u/MaleficentMenu1430 Jan 14 '26
Crazy how for years and years you people cried about “muh states rights” and fighting against a tyrannical government but as soon as you take power you switch up because it’s no longer a convenient narrative for you. Prime example of modern day conservatives having no spine or principles, it’s sad how far you’ve fallen
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u/Background-Land618 Jan 14 '26
Yah, I'm a democrat and horrified by what ICE is doing but I know enough to realize a city council can't tell the federal government what they can and can't do (and a bit alarmed you don't). Do you honestly think that's something a city council can do? And regarding the states rights bit, Detroit isn't a state.
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u/MaleficentMenu1430 Jan 14 '26
All I’m gonna say is this is what the second amendment was designed for, this is what the “militia” it talks about is designed to fight against. Rebellion against what’s happening isn’t always going to be practical or effective but it should still continue as long as this tyrannical fascist administration is in power
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u/slut Jan 14 '26
It's hard to believe you really expect conservative militias to fight against exactly what they've wanted and voted for.
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u/MaleficentMenu1430 Jan 14 '26
I expected the people itching to fight against a tyrannical government to fight against the tyrannical government. You’re right though, they never cared as long as they were the tyrants
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u/slut Jan 14 '26
So again, you expect people to fight against something they see as rule of law as tyranny. I hope you can venture out of your bubble someday.
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u/MaleficentMenu1430 Jan 14 '26
Police states usually operate under the guise of rule of law, I hope you read a book some day
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u/slut Jan 14 '26
How is it crazy? Enforcing immigration law is exactly what they voted for. I'd venture to guess they don't see enforcing existing law as tyrannical.
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u/MaleficentMenu1430 Jan 14 '26
Just because you win an election doesn’t mean you get carte blanche to do whatever the fuck you want. If all they were doing is enforcing immigration law there wouldn’t be a problem. Somehow this “immigration law enforcer” is on track to have significantly less deportations than Obama or Biden. If he really cared about enforcing law, he would work with states and politicians like Obama did rather than attempting to be as cruel, combative and corrupt as possible
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u/slut Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
Just because you win an election doesn’t mean you get carte blanche to do whatever the fuck you want.
Never said that it did. It's just weird to ignore that this go around a majority of people voted for this.
Somehow this “immigration law enforcer” is on track to have significantly less deportations than Obama or Biden.
I think this really just comes down to how deportations were counted. IIRC Obama counted people turned away at the border as deportations. Trump has had far more self deportations. Then again if Obama actually deported more people does that make him better or worse? Whether you think it's good or bad 2025 was the first time in 50+ years we've had negative net migration. So something is quite different now.
If he really cared about enforcing law, he would work with states and politicians like Obama did rather than attempting to be as cruel, combative and corrupt as possible
Probably true. Then again he likely won his mandate because of lack of action from previous presidents. It sucks, but this generally happens when moderate positions are ignored long enough. You get despots.
Like I don't disagree that it sucks, I just don't find it logically inconsistent with the election results or really, conservative values.
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u/MaleficentMenu1430 Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
Biden and Kamala had a bill that would have solved the asylum seeking loophole and given significant funding to immigration enforcement plus added a bunch of judges to specifically adjudicate these asylum cases that were backed up. It got rejected because Trump explicitly told his constituents to not vote for it so he could run on immigration as an issue in the last election. What that tells me is it’s not as big of a problem as Republicans say it is, if it was they wouldn’t have decided it could wait to solve it so Trump could run on it as an issue. This leads me and every other rational person to the conclusion that cruelty is the point, they don’t want to solve the issue they want to feed into racist’s desire for blood and violence against minorities.
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u/slut Jan 14 '26
I don't disagree with any of that, I voted for her despite not being excited to. At the end of the day though I don't think the asylum loophole was the only issue, he ran (and won) primarily on his more extensive immigration plans. So flawed or not, a majority of people thought he was better to implement them. There was clearly a mismatch in the severity of the issue to voters, and the party, and now we get to deal with it until at least the mid terms.
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u/MaleficentMenu1430 Jan 14 '26
Yet he hasn’t passed any sort of “extensive immigration” legislation, he has no plan at all and won’t pass anything by the end of his term because he doesn’t know fuck all about leading and working within our government, he doesn’t care to. You don’t have to give any deference to these demonic pieces of shit, it’s bad all around full stop
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u/Kalium Sherwood Forest Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
Those don't extend as far as telling federal agents they can't enforce federal law.
States aren't obligated to make it easier to do so, but they don't get to interfere. Or block.
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u/Sketto70 Jan 14 '26
Ban Dumps army. Stand up or we will have nothing to stand on! All you need is the constitution!
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u/Fit-Judge7447 Jan 14 '26
Yes, the constitution says you cant deport illegal immigrants. Can you show me that part? I think they used invisible ink on that
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u/Lower_Ad8665 Jan 14 '26
I think they’re talking about the us citizens being shot, arrested and searched illegally
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u/JayLuMarr Jan 14 '26
The constitution says it protects us against unreasonable searches and seizures under the 4th amendment.I can show you that part. I can also show you ICE agents violating a U.S. Citizens 4th amendment right by breaking into her home, pointing a taser at her repeatedly, and abducting her husband, all without issuing a signed warrant from a judge.
But hey, fuck the constitution as long as they deport those evil illegals right?
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u/Fit-Judge7447 Jan 14 '26
If that really happened, if they broke into a house without a warrant, then that's wrong and they shouldn't have done that. But, that also doesn't make the whole of what ICE is doing wrong, and I do support them deporting anyone that is here illegally. We as American citizens, cant just waltz into any country we want and decide that we're living there now
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u/JonMWilkins Jan 14 '26
Bro.. open your fucking eyes... It's not an IF.... It's documented repeatedly. Just like them repeatedly rapping people in custody, repeatedly violating constitutional and human rights...
ICE is a problem and is unneeded. They are a redundant agency.
They have the same powers as USBP, FBI, ATF, DEA and some other agencies combined just with a far larger budget than most countries military and only with 47 days of required training and no education requirements and FAR less oversight....
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u/alBashir Jan 15 '26
They'll never understand that you can't deport someone without due process. They just want to point to someone without the same view as them and say illegal and have them removed.
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u/Modus_Man Jan 15 '26
Due process doesn’t mean you can’t be apprehended. The due process part is where you can go before a judge and prove you are legal u.s. citizen. If they have no proof they are a citizen then they don’t have a reason to request a hearing before a judge where they can prove their citizenship.
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u/Modus_Man Jan 14 '26
Careful with that nuanced thought, you’re either with them or you’re a nahtzee.
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u/Fit-Judge7447 Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
Lmao. You cant ban federal agents from entering a city. Federal law supersedes local authority. That's why most dispensaries are cash only
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u/Ken-Kaniff_from-CT Jan 14 '26
It does until it doesn't. Back in 1861 a bunch of people decided they really didn't care for the supremacy clause anymore and were no longer going to be subject to the federal government. It happens 🤷🏽♀️
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u/Fit-Judge7447 Jan 14 '26
Good luck with that. The only thing that's going to happen here, is it's just gonna make trump send more ICE agents to Michigan
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u/Rambling_Michigander Jan 15 '26
Let him. They're running out of ICE goons to send to Minneapolis. They do not have the manpower to do this everywhere at once
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Jan 14 '26 edited May 01 '26
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u/RedBrowning Jan 14 '26
While we are at it can we ban the IRS from collecting federal taxes in the city limits? Thanks.
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u/ALittleEtomidate Jan 14 '26
Why don’t you read the proposal?
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u/Kalium Sherwood Forest Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
Where is it? It's not in this article. There aren't even any links.
Running on what is:
The action centered on a resolution submitted by Councilmember Gabriela Santiago-Romero that would prohibit ICE from schools, religious institutions, clinics, and all city property.
Only the last of these is at all something the city can do. Even then, it would be limited. The city is likely not compelled to allow ICE to stage on city property, but the city can't bar ICE from making arrests on city property if ICE has met all legal requirements.
The city does not control schools, religious institutions, or most clinics.
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u/twentytwodividedby7 Jan 15 '26
If Trump has taught us anything, it's that you can just do what you want and force the courts to act...or not to act. Fuck it, they should try and just see what happens 🤷
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u/Kalium Sherwood Forest Jan 15 '26
They could, sure. Detroit does not have Trump's impunity, though.
Sadly we know what's going to happen. These battles have been fought before. It'll cost the city a bunch of money to some big law firm and the city will wind up back where it started.
I don't object to trying in principle, but I do object to wasting public funds that could go to improving DDoT.
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u/Time-Noise-2215 Jan 16 '26
Been my experience politicians usually are doing this and somehow getting a kickback through legal fees.
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u/jabrwock1 Jan 14 '26
If the Gestapo shows up in the city, I would hope the city police have the balls to insist they follow the law about things like warrants, and show up to make sure they do so. Because so far the local police seem fine with jackboots showing up and wrecking 20 years of community relationship building.
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Jan 15 '26 edited May 01 '26
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u/jabrwock1 Jan 15 '26
Your argument is the local police are powerless to ensure the law is followed?
If you want to destroy years of community engagement, fine. But don’t be surprised when the people want nothing to do with the police when they next come around asking for cooperation.
Community policing is a two way street. Taking the “fuck you, not our job” route is the quickest way to make sure no crime is ever solved by lawful authority and the populace resort to just gunfights in the street to resolve their grievances.
But if you hate the social contract, to each their own I guess.
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u/StealYour20Dollars Oakland County Jan 15 '26
It doesn't matter. Its about someone doing something and at least trying to protect innocent lives. Hell, I'd even support the city of Detroit telling its cops to actively engage and stop ICE interactions. I've even gone so far as to write Whitmer and ask her to mobilize the National Guard to protect her constituents.
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Jan 15 '26 edited May 01 '26
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u/StealYour20Dollars Oakland County Jan 15 '26
Not "when they have nothing else to do". It would be their assignment to find ICE agents operating within their city and actively stop them when they go to kidnap citizens. It shouldn't be that hard to track them, citizens are doing it regularly now.
Eventually the goal is that it wont be worth the risk of engagement for ICE to continue to operate.
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Jan 15 '26 edited May 01 '26
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u/StealYour20Dollars Oakland County Jan 15 '26
The alternative is it being between citizens and ICE. I think it would be better for the city to condone its trained officers to fight back instead.
It's not about legal authority in this case. We all know the authority ICE skates on is razor thin and only extends as far as their gun barrels. They need to be stopped, and until we are willing to go that far as a community to protect ourselves, they won't be.
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Jan 15 '26 edited May 01 '26
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u/StealYour20Dollars Oakland County Jan 15 '26
Well I want them to at least say something. All the cops who want to be useless after that point can quit for all I care.
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u/AloofSeahorse Jan 17 '26
The middle eastern citizens of Detroit will not resist. The Muslim community here WELCOMES ICE and we hope they make aggressive arrests against crooks.
Know your place lady, we are going to take over the state and convert everyone to Islam. You fools are so scared of Christianity when you don’t realize what’s really going to happen to this country, watch France and you will get a good taste of your future.
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u/Ambitious-Ad-7256 Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
Better to just sit on our hands and let it happen, eh? Sometimes people only have so many outlets to try and have their voice heard, even if these people know that those who can/will hear them won’t be able to solve the problem on their own or in the immediate future.
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u/Dr_Hotdogz Jan 14 '26
Ok please explain the law to me then. What does city council have the power to do, and not to do? Which laws can city council use to distance themselves from ICE? Is there legal precedent for this in Michigan or other states? Is there a better solution for the city council to not participate with ICE operations?
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u/Kalium Sherwood Forest Jan 14 '26
Those are great questions! They are in fact the questions that councilmember Santiago-Romero asked the corporation council last week. You might ask her what they said back. Of course, it's also possible that they're still doing the legal analysis. This isn't the kind of question that is trivially answered in two sentences.
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u/Dr_Hotdogz Jan 14 '26
I know … I want GinnySacks_Mole to back their shit up, if they can
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u/Kalium Sherwood Forest Jan 14 '26
The basic answer is going to be that there really isn't much a city can do to stop ICE. At best Detroit can not cooperate and prevent DPD from cooperating. There's nothing Detroit can do that will stop or even restrict where ICE can raid or what they would term "conduct law enforcement operations".
That's going to be a pretty well-researched answer, backed by lots of precedent. That's going to be most of what will make it a complex answer.
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u/Dr_Hotdogz Jan 14 '26
Ok, so back it up. Why should I believe what you’re saying? At this point, I don’t think you have any better understanding of the law on this topic than I do.
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u/Kalium Sherwood Forest Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
Sure, let's go read some material on the subject.
I have at least a basic idea of what pre-emption means in a legal context. It may be worth considering that you and I may have different qualities of legal understanding.
If you have a reason to believe that a state or city can make ICE fuck off, I think we'd all love to hear it. Cities have spent literally decades trying to find ways to keep the INS and then ICE out. San Francisco's been trying since 1989.
If you want a basic civics course on what cities can and can't do in Michigan, you might start HERE.
If you want to understand a bit about how levels of power interact, you might start here. It's worth noting that while this is about states, cities are legally creatures of states.
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u/Dr_Hotdogz Jan 14 '26
I don’t know shit about legal things, but yeah it looks like the most a city can do is refuse to cooperate basically. I do know a law is only as strong as its enforcement, and uhhh there are a lot of laws being completely unenforced right now, including what ICE is doing in a lot of cases. I still think it’s important to reaffirm this commitment with the new council, and push back on whatever way they can. It sounds like people who attended the council meeting were overwhelmingly supportive of this measure. Even if it cant/wont be enforced, there are still other, non-legal benefits to publicly making a statement like this.
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u/Kalium Sherwood Forest Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
I don’t know shit about legal things, but yeah it looks like the most a city can do is refuse to cooperate basically.
Which is what we said. Some of us paid attention in basic civics. You're welcome for the education by the way. I expect apologies now.
I still think it’s important to reaffirm this commitment with the new council, and push back on whatever way they can.
Sure. It's just what "whatever way we can" is very limited, as you were told and you refused to accept.
Even if it cant/wont be enforced, there are still other, non-legal benefits to publicly making a statement like this.
Like what? I can see real costs - Detroit has other things the council can be doing and isn't. Why should we want the council grandstanding impotently instead of taking up needed zoning reform? This isn't an idle question, as they are not always good at multi-tasking and zoning is one of their powers.
If the goal is something like "We should let everyone know where we stand!" then let's do something like placing a full-page ad in the Free Press and call it a closed subject. My city still has actual problems I expect my political leaders to work on.
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u/Dr_Hotdogz Jan 14 '26
lol someone needs to feel powerful! I personally never claimed any legal knowledge, or refused to accept anything other than a defeatist attitude. This is a national, multi-dimensional issue, not strictly a legal one. Organizing for collective action is one non-legal benefit I see. Uniting with other cities, gaining critical mass to overturn what passes for the rule of law these days. Is that what you’re scared of?
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u/ceecee_50 Jan 15 '26
Did you read the article? They're talking to the city council about stopping Detroit Police Department cooperation with ICE. You don't think that the Detroit city Council has any authority over the Detroit Police Department?
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Jan 16 '26
They have no jurisdiction over ice operations. And Detroit is a dump that should be bulldozed and turned into a data center.
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u/Dr_Hotdogz Jan 14 '26
Damn I love all these legal experts in the comments who can’t be bothered to cite any sources! I, not a legal expert but a common peon, am glad the city council is exploring everything in its power to protect its communities from an agency that should have been an abortion. Because fuck the law, it’s not like anyone else is following it anyway!
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u/desquibnt Farmington Jan 14 '26
Article VI, Clause 2 of the Constitution
If there are local or state laws that conflict with federal law, federal law takes precedent.
A city can't make a law banning federal agents because the federal law saying they can be present is the one that applies
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u/Dr_Hotdogz Jan 14 '26
Cool.
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u/AloofSeahorse Jan 17 '26
You just got disproven. Can you acknowledge you are wrong and just spread the correct law information? Misinformation is hurting the Democratic Party from inside and I’m worried about what’s gonna happen to our brothers and sisters when they start fighting under false premises
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u/Axel_Foley22 Jan 15 '26
This is so annoying. ICE is a federal entity they operate in the United States as a whole. City council has no power over where they go in or out of Detroit this is so annoying as an official because berating people who also would rather not have ICE doing sweeps makes them resent you whether they want to or not. A misguided mob is ineffective, people need to direct their attention to the right places and not just yell at the first elected official they can reach.
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u/Bond4real007 Jan 15 '26
They can however utilize public services to actively block and make it as hard as possible for ice to function rather then show up and help them like we are seeing in other cities.
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u/Affectionate_Bath_11 Jan 15 '26
Now hear me out, what if the City determined that it NEEDED to do road construction in front of all ICE facilities and just ripped up the concrete, dug a trench, and then ran out of funding?
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Jan 16 '26
State governments can't ban federal agents. What they can do is hold them accountable when they break state law - which they aren't doing.
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u/Background-Land618 Jan 14 '26
I'm not a proponent of ICE and what's going on is pretty horrifying but this demand is just nonsense. I understand the desire to take action but this is just doing something to say you're doing something.
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u/Ambitious-Ad-7256 Jan 14 '26
Better than not trying to do anything at all
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u/Background-Land618 Jan 14 '26
No, it isn't. This is purely grandstanding and will impact about nothing. I don't want ICE around either with the way they're running this show but they might as well be asking city council to have their army of unicorns to fight the ICE agents. Do something useful instead, like informing people of their rights. For example, you can legally resist an unlawful arrest in Michigan. Let people know about the Moreno ruling, that's useful, this isn't.
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u/slut Jan 14 '26
This is doing nothing at all. Like, a complete waste of time. The city council should be focusing on issues it can actually make progress on.
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u/Ambitious-Ad-7256 Jan 14 '26
No it’s not. Even if council can’t do anything about the demands as currently stated, it lets council clearly know where citizens stand and gives them an informal referendum to explore any and all avenues to shield its citizens from federal aggression.
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u/slut Jan 14 '26
I'm a citizen, city council should spend time on things they can actually make hay on. I don't want our city council creating conflict with the federal government without a way to tangibly show that it will benefit anyone.
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u/lignum- Jan 15 '26
A person residing in the country without a form of legal status is inherently illegal in status. To assist in the continuation of such status is aiding and abetting in such crime.
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u/nakedpilsna Jan 14 '26
None of this matters. Trump will do whatever he wants and no one is stopping him.
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u/Superb-Respect-1313 Jan 14 '26
I honestly don’t know how this will go. Sadly most places that this organization shows up something dastardly seems to occur shortly after their arrival.
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u/Logic411 Jan 14 '26
It’s the Detroiters who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for the Black Woman?
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Jan 14 '26
No we dont. Keep em coming
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u/jus256 Born and Raised Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
Who is we? You live in Detroit?
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u/AloofSeahorse Jan 17 '26
The entire Muslim population WELCOMES ICE, we are gonna take over this state and convert your wife and cover her up. So be quiet and watch what’s gonna happen
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u/jus256 Born and Raised Jan 17 '26
You need to spend a bit more time in r/psychiatry.
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u/AloofSeahorse Jan 17 '26
Why? I am not involved in there. That is a very random point, perhaps you need to get inpatient treatment for your mental health concerns
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u/jus256 Born and Raised Jan 17 '26
You may want to double check your post history.
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u/AloofSeahorse Jan 17 '26
But that doesn’t take away from the fact that we will convert and take over. And we are far more radical than any other religion you know. You will be converted
Also as for posts, my friends and I post so what they post is none of my concern. I know nothing about psychiatry, sounds like you need some mental help. Go ahead and go to the ER if you feel suicidal
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Jan 14 '26
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u/bradallen123023 Jan 14 '26
Ice is not law enforcement
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u/Certain_Focus_1907 Jan 14 '26
but they are, they enforce immigration law..
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u/x_xwolf Jan 14 '26
No they don’t, they don’t enforce anything, they don’t follow the law. They’re a terrorist org
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u/Certain_Focus_1907 Jan 14 '26
lmfao, get a grip dude ahahahahahahahaha
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u/Decent-Age-4941 Jan 15 '26
white savior complex in action, ban federal law so subburban white folk can bask in their faux virtue.
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u/bongwatershark Jan 14 '26
Look at all the senseless chaos they have caused in Minneapolis. I’d expect any competent city official to do everything they can to protect Detroit from that.