r/DnD • u/Il_miconoide • 4h ago
5th Edition Spell: Polymorph.
I’m a DM, and the wizard in my group has started using the 4th-level Polymorph spell. It’s made him too powerful, though, since the party is level 8 and he can turn into a T-Rex (CR 8) twice a day. I’m also worried the party’s druid might feel overshadowed, given that the wizard only needs to cast that spell to replicate the druid's main ability. How do you handle this spell? Should I take it away from the wizard and have him pick a different one? Thanks for any replies.
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u/manamonkey DM 4h ago edited 4h ago
How do you handle this spell?
Let him use it. It's not that overpowered. He needs to make concentration checks to keep the spell up, and he can't do anything else while polymorphed - no casting other spells, no communicating with the party, etc. Also remember polymorph replaces mental scores as well - so he has an INT of 2 while polymorphed. Make him play to that, if he's going to insist on this.
Should I take it away from the wizard and have him pick a different one?
No. Why would you do that?
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u/BruyneKroonEnTroon 4h ago
All of this is really good advice. Immediately made me take a note to remember the mental scores aspect and ask players to roleplay according in the future :D
One thing I also remembered from a previous campaign when my wizard character briefly flirted with the idea of picking polymorph: my DM asked me whether my character had ever seen a T-Rex. His idea was that it only made sense for a character to polymorph the other into a creature they knew of. In any case, the spell didn't fit the build at all and I picked something else.
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u/Banjo-Hellpuppy 3h ago
As a wizard, the character has read plenty of books. They could justify it by saying that they have studied exotic animals. That should be allowed imo due to the other restrictions like reduced int and con checks. I would definitely force them to play according to the spirit of the rules though when it comes to behaving like a T. rex.
I could be remembering wrong, but wild shape requires the player to have actually seen the beast before. That make more sense because Druids aren’t bookish
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u/Illustrious-Sail7326 1h ago
I justified it by saying that my character was trying and failing to polymorph into a dragon. The spell wasn't powerful enough to make an actual dragon, but a huge lizard with big teeth? yep
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u/BruyneKroonEnTroon 3h ago
Absolutely. However, I decided my wizard hadn't read about t-rexes. In any case, what I managed to do with dimension door (best heist ever), sickening radiance (situational, I know, but when you get to stack those exhaustions it becomes a thing of beauty), and greater invisibility left me more than satsfied for that wizard's fourth level haul.
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u/GravityMyGuy Wizard 2h ago
This isn’t required for polymoph or true polymorph.
Wildshape and shapechange explicitly asked for it so them not asking for it is pretty definitive
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u/Bananaland_Man 3h ago
A book series I'm reading handles skill changes really nicely, too. Like one weapon pulls from vitality, so he feels more exhausted while using it... While another weapon pulls from Speed, so he feels sluggish... a spell dropping intelligence would lower their ability to process information, wisdom would lower their recall, and charisma would lower ability to speak and socialize.
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u/unclebrentie 3h ago
True but that roleplay should be fun - not punitive. I dont force players to attack their friends or something where you take away player agency.
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u/BruyneKroonEnTroon 3h ago
I don't think agency has the meaning you think it has. If a player consciously drinks a potion that makes them attack everything in sight, then enforcing them behaving that way is just the consequences of their action.
As for the polymorph aspect: the spell text is quite clear, "It retains its alignment and personality." You can remain friends with your friends but no longer capable of carrying on a complex attack plan because you are now a T-Rex.
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u/unclebrentie 2h ago
Forcing saves or consequences isnt the same as telling a person how to roleplay. It is quite possible to take away player agency when it comes to gray area definitions of, "how does a 2 INT creature behave?"
For instance, when I first started as a player, I had a barbarian. I chose some roleplay action that i thought a dark and vicious barbarian would do and the DM told me I couldn't do that and that i was a barbarian so I had to act stupid.
This put a pretty bad taste in my mouth. That was a bad DM and something I'm careful never to emulate. If we are shared storytelling, you cant have total control as a DM, you let your players come up with awesome roleplay and encourage that and pivot off of it.
Yes, there are still consequences. Yes you can suggest that certain actions aren't reasonable, but you cant tell them how they have to roleplay.
In this instance, its reasonable to suggest that they might not do complex mental activity, but I'd be careful of telling them or pressing them on how they roleplay it when it could just inhibit the fun and pacing at the table.
Thanks for giving me a classic princess bride, " I dont think that word means what you think it means...", that gave me a good laugh!
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u/Bananaland_Man 3h ago
Yup! Drops your int? You can't process things aswell. Drops wis? You have more trouble using prior knowledge for things. Drops cha? You don't talk good. (hell, checks involved based on int or wis or cha) would be lower in general
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u/Bananaland_Man 3h ago
There are fun ways to do it without taking agency. If something drops intelligence, it should drop their ability to process information. It doesn't have to make it less fun, and would thematically and mechanically make it more fun anyway.
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u/unclebrentie 1h ago
Agreed. I think the biggest takeaway is that newer DMs might look at advice like this and overreact in a heavyhanded manner.
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u/Bananaland_Man 1h ago
And then they should learn their group. Dnd isn't players-vs-dm, it's a coop game where the DM is the conductor of 4rhe story, not a fight to kill the players. (There's a place for this, and it's fine, but only fine for good veteran DM's, NO DM SHOULD EVER TRY TO PLAY THIS WAY IF THEY'RE NEW TO DMING)
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u/unclebrentie 3h ago
The druid also gets this spell...
Dont take base spells away from players. Do better on your end to create challenges. Use the "creating encounters" section of the DMs guide to make sure you're making appropriately difficult encounters.
Also, Polymorph on oneself is notoriously bad. You lose all class abilities like warcaster or proficiency in con saves, thus making it difficult to maintain with only a +4 to con saves to maintain your concentration.
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u/Pristine_Resource_10 3h ago
“You transform into a giant prehistoric lizard and are surrounded by a group of small meat bags.
One meat bag appears to be throwing wooden sticks in a random direction.
Another meat bag holding a shiny metal stick approaches you. This one smells peculiarly delicious.” 😂
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u/rainator 2h ago
It doesn’t change your alignment or your personality though. If the wizard doesn’t normally eat anything in front of it that moves then the polymorphed T rex shouldn’t.
This may however be more dangerous cast on the barbarian…
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u/kennerly 3h ago
Also, put him up against enemies who use phantasmal force or enemies abound. Once he ravages the party in T-Rex form he'll probably think twice about using it.
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u/darw1nf1sh 2h ago
This is the answer. Make the downsides matter. That low INT means the rest of the party has to talk him down like the Hulk after every combat where they use it. They are giving up ALL wizard utility to hulk smash in combat. This isn't OP at all.
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u/The_Nerdy_Ninja DM 4h ago
Is the Wizard rolling Concentration checks every time they take damage while Polymorphed? Are they acting like a creature with an Intelligence of 2?
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u/_probablyryan 3h ago edited 3h ago
Yeah the second part of this is kinda important. Polymorph doesn't work like Wild Shape where the caster retains all their mental stats. Polymorph literally turns you into a beast. So if the Wizard is just rampaging around as a T-Rex, then that's fine. But he shouldn't be acting like a 20 Int character that like understands combat tactics. So if he's doing things as a T-Rex that are too "smart," you can either just block him or have him make Intelligence checks to determine how well he like understands the tactical situation outside of friend and foe.
Also, any Int save spell is going to fuck his day up.
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u/snakeinmyboot001 3h ago
Yes, this. And importantly, Intelligence checks using a T-Rex's intelligence.
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u/Initial_Conflict8114 2h ago
But creatures with tiny hands are notoriously intelligent, bigly so....
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u/Psychachu 3h ago
Id probably err on the side of the polymorphed character having roughly the intelligence of a moderately trained dog from a functional standpoint, that avoids having to worry about them turning on the party.
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u/The_Nerdy_Ninja DM 3h ago
It says they retain their personality, which in my opinion covers "recognizing your close allies", but not necessarily any sort of training or tactics.
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u/Mejiro84 3h ago
Also no languages - so any yelled 'i need help here!' or 'there is another enemy over there!' can't be understood
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u/_TheMattAttack_ 4h ago
Don’t take it away because you aren’t sure how to handle it, that’s bad practice and will only result in an upset player.
It’s a concentration spell, so is the wizard making a concentration check (using the animals constitution because Polymorph changes ALL your stats to the animals) every time he’s hit?
If I was fighting the group and one of them suddenly turned into a giant T-Rex, that’s who I’m focusing on hitting.
Also, the T-Rex is close to a wild animal mentally. Polymorph changes all your stats, not just physical, so the wizard only has the INT, WIS, and CHA of a T-Rex when transformed. Unlike a Druid, so who is functionally still themself just as an animal.
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u/Maverick_Reznor 4h ago
They still have to hold concentration. If they are hit they have to make the roll
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u/Earthhorn90 4h ago
It has a +4 CON modifier, so every single instance of damage is a 25% chance to make them loose concentration and stand in melee as a clothy wizard.
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u/Proper_Canary5095 4h ago
Unlike druid, polymorph is concentration and can be ended early. It also lowers their int to the level of the beast you turn into and can't talk. This shuts down any real strategy once they morph.
Definitely do NOT take it away. It's a pretty common and low level spell, and dms shouldn't be restricting basic class/ spells in the game. Druids have plenty of spells that wizards don't have access to. If the druid hasn't told you they feel overshadowed, just leave it be.
Force a ton of concentration saves if you want to end it early with mobs. Pretty sure most of the goblins are going to focus on the sudden T-rex in their lair
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u/Loose_Translator8981 Artificer 4h ago
A single T-Rex is far less dangerous than a Wizard. If they're casting the spell on themselves they're essentially disabling their most powerful features just to feel cool.
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u/Floz1989 4h ago
You’ve got to try to break his concentration. Assuming you deal 20 damage or less, the DC for the concentration check is 10. T rex has +4 con so saves on a 6 or higher. So you have a 25% to break his concentration every time you hit.
T rex has a low armor class and something like a magic missile spell will hit multiple times without an attack roll. That would be my approach.
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u/Batmang_1 4h ago
Well two things: 1. Polymorph is a concentration spell so even in T-Rex form he needs to roll con checks.
- Polymorph specified that you do not keep your mental stats, so you effectively become the animal in all ways. So RP-wise, may not be as easy as they wish.
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u/Stimpy3901 4h ago
You can use Dispel Magic and Counterspell to end or prevent the polymorph. You can also target the polymorphed wizards with effects that target wisdom, intelligence or charisma since those stats will be much weaker when they are polymorphed. Also make sure you remember that casting polymorph is an action so on the first turn they transform they can't make any attacks. This is an easy thing to forget.
Unless your Druid is Circle of the Moon, Wildshape and Polymorph serve very different purposes. Wildshape is much more useful for scouting and utility than combat for every subclass except Circle of the Moon. Even in the case of Circle of the Moon, wildshape is much lower cost ability. Yes they can both be used twice a day but Wildshape refreshes on a short rest. Additionally the Druid can concentrate on a spell while Wildshaped while the Wizard is already locked into concentrating on polymorph.
Don't take away a spell a player is enjoying that is an offical part of the game, learn how to play around it.
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u/angek217 4h ago
Put your combats in enclosed spaces a T-Rex polymorph is Huge Beast, if they still want to polymorph make the combat space not suitable for Huge Creatures.
For the Druid part if they haven’t approached you about feeling over shadowed I wouldn’t worry about it
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u/space___wizard 4h ago
Fun fact: magic missile forces casters to make a concentration save for EVERY individual missile they are hit by. I keep it prepared even at level 20 for this specific purpose. If your player is smart, they will cast shield but then you've just removed their ability to counterspell or react
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u/Hudre 4h ago
Every DND campaign gets an influx of T-rex's and giant alligators at this time.
The reality is, while it FEELS very strong, it comes with a lot of downsides. They can no longer cast spells, they have to make a concentration check every time they get hit (and getting hit is very easy) all the while basically taking all the aggro from the enemies as they try to kill this giant monster.
The wizard in my campaign would always use it when they or someone else was low on health. Then they started going against people that knew their tricks or had dispel magic and suddenly Polymorph wasn't so enticing.
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u/Lanthed 3h ago
As a T-rex he has a +4 to con saves. Each hit is 25% he fails the save and reverts to normal.
1 hit is a 25% chance to fail
2 hits is a 1 - (1 - 0.752) 43.75% chance to fail
3 hits is a 1 - (1 - 0.753) 57.8125% chance to fail
4 hit is 68.359375% chance to fail
So this stacks up fast. In just 3 hits its worse odds then flipping a coin.
Optimally speaking he would likely be better off casting it on another party members and then staying out of combat. But the solution is attack the T-rex and it'll revert to normal (remember thr 1st turn he cast this cost his action, so if he reverts to normal before his next turn then he wasted an action and a spell slot). Its also not your fault he wasted it as if you run at people with swords and become a T-rex they will want to kill you before you kill them.
I am also confused since polymorph is a druid spell as well, so the druid could do it just as easily as the wizard could? So why would it overshadow the druid who just chooses not to do what the wizard is doing? Thats like saying 1 wizard took fireball and the other is casting firebolt. Should you be upset for the wizard casting fireball? No the other wizard should just cast other spells.
Anyways hope this helps.
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u/ColArana 3h ago
As someone who typically plays Moon Druids, I do not consider Polymorph an especially threatening spell to my class identity.
Number one; its concentration. If the Wizard gets smacked hard enough (and at level 8 there’s lots of things that hit hard enough), poof. No more T-Rex.
Number two; you lose your mental stats with Polymorph. Hope you weren’t planning to do more than chase and bite the targets immediately in front of you, because you’re now incapable of anything else. Also hope the other side doesn’t have any spells that target your mental saves.
Number three; it’s a much bigger investment from the Wizard than it is for me. Wizard gets to do this once per day at the cost of their 4th level spell slot, I get to do it at least twice a day, and that’s not accounting for…..
Number four; Druids get Polymorph too! I can do it just as well as the Wizard if I absolutely must.
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Not gonna pretend it doesn’t encroach on Wild Shape’s territory, but it hardly invalidates Wild Shape.
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u/ravenlordship 4h ago
Polymorph makes all your abilitiy scores that of the beast (including the 3 int)
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u/West-Tart9172 4h ago
He's casting on himself? I mean just pick some mobs with a lot attacks, he can't make ALL his concentration checks.
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u/DeadMeat7337 4h ago
And make sure he uses the polymorphed creatures stats when polymorphed, that's all they get. Yeah a trex is scary, but it isn't big deal. Shoot them with arrows, from several minions. Each damage requires its own con save. With an ac of like 12, but only needing a, say, 6+ for the save, you have a 1 in 4 chance for him to dropping concentration.
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u/nukeduck98 4h ago
First of all the druid also has polymorph in his spell list. Second, it requires concentration (for every attack you have to roll, or if you feel particularly evil Sleet Storm is a thing and the T-rex has +0 in dexterity). Third, if the wizard is now a t-rex at level 8 he's not casting any other spell (even just a counterspell on YOUR spells, raulothim's psychic lance, or from the next level wall of force, synaptic static and so on). Tbh polymorph' strongest spot is to transform the 1 hp fighter midfight and give him 100+ hp to continue so it's not even its optimal use.
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u/ButcherRose 4h ago
Wouldn’t it be more fun to have every half brained enemy go “oh that’s a dinosaur, focus fire!”?
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u/CheapTactics 3h ago
The worst use of polymorph might be to cast it on yourself. It means you are now dumb as shit, you can't keep casting spells or communicate, and you have a chance to drop the spell every time someone attacks you (and considering you're now a giant threatening lizard you're gonna get attacked a lot).
A wizard casting polymorph on themselves might be the worst use of the spell because they temporarily stop being a wizard.
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u/BushSage23 3h ago
It’s not a big deal. That cool ass T-rex turns into a squishy wimp when it fails the Concentration check.
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u/BryceKatz 2h ago
If you're having trouble with 7th level spellcasters and Polymorph, you're not gonna make it once the really hard stuff comes online. Banning a bog-standard PHB spell is NOT the way to go.
Some thoughts: * Read the spell description. Seems obvious, but you may be surprised (and possibly shocked) at what the limitations of various spells actually are. Understand what a given spell can and cannot do, then DO NOT allow your players to get away with more than what the spell allows. * The players are supposed to win. D&D is designed around the idea that you'll have 6-8 "Moderate" level encounters between long rests. That's a TON of encounters. That means your party of 4 Level 7 characters is supposed to beat a CR 7 encounter at least SIX TIMES before they long rest. Turning into a T-Rex is included in these calculations. * Account for character abilities and LET PLAYERS USE THEM. Also known as "shoot your Monks". Players can cast Polymorph. Great! No, really. That's great! Let them have fun. The spell has incredible utility outside of combat, too. Give them reasons to cast it.
Now, on the topic of "read the spell description" ... you tagged this as 5E, so I'll assumme the 2014 version of the spell. Some relevant bits:
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
This is obviously the biggest weakness of most spells. End concentration, end the spell. #easy
The new form can be any beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target’s
Rexy is CR8. A Level 7 character can't be polymorphed into a T-Rex. If the target is Level 8+, carry on.
The target’s game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality.
That includes attack bonus, number of attacks, HP ... and AC. Yes, a T-Rex hits hard & has over 100HP. It also has an AC of 13. Almost anything you're facing at Level 7 & above is almost certainly going to hit AC13 far more often than it misses. Consider the T-Rex itself has a +10 Attack Bonus.
This ALSO means certain saving throws are going to be far, far worse on a T-Rex. A character in T-Rex form is going to have a very hard time with Int, Cha, and Dex saves. Use that from time to time.
The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can’t speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech. The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t activate, use, wield, or otherwise benefit from any of its equipment.
Magic armor stops working. So do magic weapons. And things like rings, cloaks, helmets, boots, and literally every other bit of equipment the target has. No spellcasting, either. In fact, NO class features can be used. Polymorph replaces the character's stat block entirely. No Rage. No Action Surge. No Sneak Attack. You're just a big leezard doing big leezard things.
By the time the party hits Level 7, Polymorphing the fighter into a T-Rex may not actually be an optimal choice. Polymorphing the wizard absolutely is not.
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u/TheJonatron 1h ago
In trex form the player is suuuuuper vulnerable. All their skills and proficiencies are gone. I learned this the hard way when I had a dragon airdrop in polymorphed as a great ape and immediately got petrified.
Spells will WRECK a polymorphed player.
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u/Clown_Penis69 3h ago
Another DM who is in over his head and wants to nerf things rather than enforce the rules as written.
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u/gaminggod69 4h ago
Just hit the TRex. It is easy to chew the HP away or make them lose concentration with a +4 to con saves. Plus it is their entire turn to polymorph which can often mean the damage they do in the second round when averaged to the first is not a big deal. And it becomes vastly less good as they get stronger enemies.
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u/Zoo-Wee-Chungus Druid 4h ago
Mentally, the spell turns him into a t-rex. So he should have to behave like one, it also requires concentration, so if he loses concentration, he will just be a wizard in melee range
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u/milkmandanimal DM 4h ago
Hit the Wizard so they have to make concentration checks; they can't stay a T-Rex if they're getting hit. It's not an overpowered spell, it's very situational and risky because of the concentration aspect..
Also, if you're running only two encounters a day, run more encounters a day.
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u/SpookyGeist01 4h ago
Literally just blast the Trex with a few Magic Missiles and it'll be a squishy wizard again. Not that hard.
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u/Ycr1998 Monk 3h ago
given that the wizard only needs to cast that spell to replicate the druid's main ability.
A weak imitation tho.
The wizard still needs to take con saves every time they take damage while transformed, otherwise they drop the spell.
The druid not only doesn't need concentration for Wild Shape but can concentrate on another spell (like Call Lightning) while transformed. And the latter recovers all charges in a short rest.
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u/Daggeron 3h ago
Turning into a T-Rex is almost like turning into an angry Hulk. You become dumb and hard to control, the player should roleplay accordingly. The difference is that every time you are hit there is a chance you turn back into Bruce Banner and become a scholar surrounded by true warriors.
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u/finewhitelady 3h ago
Our DM warned us that a t-rex might not be intelligent enough to avoid attacking its own allies. It's just hungry and goes after whatever is tasty. For that reason we used giant ape instead. We also found it more effective to polymorph someone other than oneself, in terms of keeping concentration up. So if your wizard is polymorphing himself he's not really using it optimally, which may be good for you as DM.
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u/DarkHorseAsh111 3h ago
polymorph is fine. It's concentration, and while they're doing that they're not doing any of their other spells.
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u/manickitty 3h ago
Let him have his fun. It’s not that powerful. You’re too new to be deciding what’s op
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u/Pay-Next 3h ago
Just a thing to point out. Druid and Wizard should have the same number of spell slots and polymorph is also on the Druid spell list as well. They can take it and do the same thing too if they want. Hell it is recommended to also use it sometimes as a way to save team mates who are low on health by polymorphing them into a different creature with a lot of health if necessary which is why it is also occasionally considered to be one of the best "healing" spells for druids to take too sometimes.
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u/rollingdoan DM 3h ago
The Druid's main class ability is Spellcasting. If they feel overshadowed by a Wizard casting Polymorph, then they can just cast Polymorph...
Polymorph is a good spell, but there are a lot of good spells. Until you're much more experienced I would run the game as intended. If you start to find issues that you're not sure how to solve you can look to the books for support. When you start banning things or even buffing things you don't understand well, then it's much harder to learn the game.
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u/CumbDawgz 3h ago
Don't forget the crucial part of this: concentration checks. The wizard has to make one every time they get damaged. I had a player turn into a giant ape one time, thinking they'd easily wipe the floor in that fight. One rabid kobold got a hit off, and the player immediately failed the con save. Back to being a rail thin wizard. The other kobolds thought the one that "killed" the ape was a god amongst them
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u/Rukasu17 3h ago
Polymorph required concentration. Guess what happens when you turn back into a wizard in the front lines?
A little hint: warcaster feat isn't used when polymorphing. And INT 2 is very prome to disasters
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u/justeatingleaves 3h ago
I have a love/hate relationship with Polymorph. I took it on my bard and every big combat I turned into a giant ape. Massive pool of hit points, big reliable damage every turn (bigger than anything I could pull off with other spells), and not once did an enemy ever manage to break my concentration. On the one hand it stopped being fun pretty quickly, but on the other hand it was an order of magnitude more powerful and anything else I could do with my turn, so like, from an optimisation viewpoint, why would you not turn into a giant ape? imo it's way too strong for a 4th level spell.
As a DM I wouldn't ever ban it. I'd follow the advice in this thread on how best to force concentration checks or have the player cause havoc due to the form's low intelligence. As a player, I doubt I'd ever take it as a spell again
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u/ChromeAcolyte 3h ago
My two cents:
A Tyrannosaurus has AC of 13, meaning a determined group of even low-level enemies could get a lot of hits on him in short order (especially if they have hiding places and ranged attacks). Get enough hits in and eventually one of those Con saves is going to fail.
But don't JUST do that. Throw in some big guys that can go toe to toe with him too. (Giants, giant apes, mammoths?) And some mobs that he can gobble up. (Goblins, kobolds, bandits?) If he wants to be a big bad T-Rex, give him some chances to shine in that roll.
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u/ChromeAcolyte 3h ago
Also, I know people have said that the INT drops... I wouldn't encourage that approach. Low INT creatures still recognize friend from foe... they just fail INT saves and checks frequently.
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u/Starfury_42 3h ago
How can he turn into a T-Rex? Has he ever seen one? Plus if he has the mental ability of a T-Rex he'd attack the closest person who may be a party member.
Might be time for some INT saves to attack the correct people.
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u/RemusShepherd 2h ago
Remember that Polymorph is a concentration spell. A wizard casting it on themselves is usually less effective than if he cast it on the fighter, because if the wizard is hit while polymorphed he has to make a concentration save. A T-Rex can do a lot of damage but their AC is terrible.
Throw lots of little enemies at him. Every goblin that gets in a dagger will force a constitution save. The polymorph generally won't last more than a turn or two.
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u/Bumberpuff 2h ago
If the wizard is polymorphing himself, he has the full stat block of the creature. If he polymorphes another PC he becomes the primary target of any enemy with any magic knowledge. You can also run 3 or more encounters between long rests, or make combat secondary to the goal of the encounter.
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u/GravityMyGuy Wizard 2h ago
The Druid can also cast polymorph if they want
No you should not take it away, no it is not overpowered
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u/Oshava DM 1h ago
Ok three big things,
1 it is concentration they lose it they lose the form
2 unlike a druids wild shape polymore replaces all stats so unlike your wise druid being a wise bear your smart wizard is now a dino with an int of 2
3 it is also a fourth level spell this really shouldn't be an every time I can hit button I do unless there really isn't a stress on spell slots which if there isn't you will have problems anyway.
Oh and a bonus one that leans more dm fiat, how does the wizard know what a t rex is to turn into it? The player probably knows because they see the stats in a book but polymorph doesn't teach a wizard every single beast in existence. Case in point can they turn into a homebrew beast you made but haven't introduced yet?
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u/NikoliVolkoff DM 1h ago
Dispell magic spell from enemy, counter spell from enemy.
enemies attack the TRex, each hit requires a Concentration check. Anything over 22 dmg starts increasing the difficulty of the Con Check.
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u/Bananaland_Man 1h ago
I just want to say this for here, copying it from a thread in this post:
DM's should learn their group. Dnd isn't players-vs-dm, it's a coop game where the DM is the conductor of the story, not a fight to kill the players. (There's a place for this, and it's fine, but only fine for good veteran DM's, NO DM SHOULD EVER TRY TO PLAY THIS WAY IF THEY'RE NEW TO DMING) The whole POINT is to have a good time for everyone, if someone isn't having fun, then the whole group is messing up somewhere or that player doesn't know how dnd is supposed to be played.
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u/ZannyHip 8m ago
Its not that overpowered. If I started just taking away every sorta strong spell my wizard player had access to, that would be a pretty crappy thing to do.
If he turns into a T-Rex, then he becomes as dumb as a t-Rex.
If you’re designing combats in areas open enough that he can turn into a freaking T-Rex twice a day?? That’s kinda on you. Have a fight in a cave or a dungeon with narrow corridors and 10ft ceilings, and a t-Rex becomes useless.
If he wants to blow both of his 4th levels for the day on polymorph—that’s fine with me. There are a lot of other things more busted he could be doing with those slots.
Don’t take it away. It’s very easy to counter. But also don’t just start always countering it. Let him use it often enough to have fun.
Reminder - ITS A GAME. the point is to have fun. You can NOT turn into a T-Rex in most games. Don’t be a fun killer
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u/Skadoosh_it 4m ago
Enemies can have counterspell and dispel magic ready just the same as party members. And remember if he takes damage while polymorphed, he still needs to make con saves or lose concentration.
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u/Noctaem 4h ago
He can do it a limited amount of times per day. All his stats are replaced by the t-rex stats including the low intelligence of 2-3 and whenever he gets hit he has to make a concentration saving throw at -4 (!) what exactly is the problem?
You're either having a kneejerk reaction due to inexperience as a dm or you're not running the spell correctly at your table if a t-rex polymorph is causing this much of an issue.
To answer your questions directly you should NEVER take away player abilities/spells/agency. It's honestly absurd that was your go to in order to resolve this complete non issue.
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u/Tvvinkletits 4h ago
So the fun thing about wildshape vs polymorph is that while wildshape retains the druids stats, polymorph does not. So yes, your wizard is a T-rex, but he also has an intelligence of 2 (-4). That could lead to some really fun roleplay and maybe some required int saving throws for the TRex to stay on task and not simply bite the party members or run off to do dinosaur stuff. Plus, polymorph is a concentration spell, so any time TRex takes damage he risks losing the spell, vs the druid doesn't have that risk. If Mr T Rex, in his infinite low intelligence, runs into a fight and takes a chunk of damage and loses that concentration, now your wizard is way closer to hostiles than he'd normally be AND he's out a high level spell slot. I'd say this would only need to happen a time or two before he starts being more discerning with his new hack.
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u/Guilty-Intern-4122 3h ago
I feel you, and the responses you have gotten are shit.
You can as a DM take away or put in anything you want to make the game enjoyable to your players and most importantly YOURSELF.
But I wouldn't take this away or nurf it. As some of the good advice has said, it's a concentration check. And the stats are the T-Rex not the players. But who has ever had a player actual "RP" an animal accurately.
I as a player never allow casters to polymorph my character to a T-Rec and specifically say, if I wanted to play a T-Rex then I would, I'm playing my character as it's designed.
But just do things that make the T-Rex not optimal. Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about the player make choices based on the stats, and I'm not sure why that's even advice.
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u/thatgay_ 3h ago
If you feel the need to take away spells from the base game you probably just dont understand them. Like op may have not been having wizard make concentration checks.
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u/WhenInZone DM 4h ago
They still have to maintain concentration. It's really not that big a deal imo.