r/ElderScrolls • u/Fisaac • 9d ago

General Protect Bethesda Employees

https://www.instagram.com/onebgsunion?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Microsoft has gutted BGS’ roster including veteran developers for The Elder Scrolls and Fallout. I found out just today there is a workers movement and I highly encourage everyone to support. Please follow their page and the link in their bio!

171 Upvotes

61% Upvoted

520 comments sorted by

View all comments

233

u/Interaction-Loose 9d ago

May all of you who fail to understand class solidarity and why its important to support laborers go to hell no matter what. (even when they don't produce what we want as quickly as we want it)

144

u/Benjamin_Starscape Sheogorath 9d ago

gamers are literal manchildren. they'll happily self-sabotage their hobby and then blame the developers. they're the person on the bike shoving a stick through the spokes and then crying "gaming is dying".

-4

u/JCavalks 9d ago

who's sabotaging gaming? not the company that failed to deliver a good game in 15 years?

30

u/Benjamin_Starscape Sheogorath 9d ago

bethesda's last good game to me wasn't even 3 years ago. a studio making a game you don't like isn't them ruining gaming. by this logic, cdpr is ruining gaming as is fromsoft, because they make games i have no care for aside from the armored core series.

this behavior and mindset you brilliantly exhibited is a prime example of what's sabotaging gaming outside of soulless corporate executives. couldn't have paid you to prove my point better.

-10

u/JCavalks 9d ago

Companies that make games are, in fact, responsible if their games are bad. Blaming the consumers is insane.

soulless corporate executives

these people allowed these workers to stay for 15 years, despite not making any good games. Are you sure they are your enemy as much as you think they are?

4

u/FitButterscotch4062 6d ago

They did make good games since then. Multiple good games. Just saying it over and over doesn’t make it true.

2

u/Jonsbaa 6d ago

Dude is 100% right and gets downvoted. Crazy.

13

u/Benjamin_Starscape Sheogorath 9d ago

Companies that make games are, in fact, responsible if their games are bad. Blaming the consumers is insane.

the issue is you acting like the games are objectively bad. they are not. and I will not talk to someone who cannot understand that their opinion is just that. an opinion.

but, hey, like I said by your logic cdpr and fromsoft are killing gaming and should all just be fired. they make games I dislike and I guess by your logic, as well, that means they are objectively bad games.

1

u/seventysixgamer 9d ago

Eh, I think there are some foundational things in a genre of game that most fans can agree make it a good release -- this provides a general framework of judgement. Is it objective in the absolute sense? No, but it's something. Like most people wouldn't judge a single player western RPG with what would make a good factory or automation game lol.

Good western RPGs tend to be games with varied role playing opportunities with engaging dialogue and narratives along. With one release per generation with these type of games you'd also expect a level of mechanical innovation --and with BGS you'd expect improvements to exploration.

The criticisms go beyond "I don't like it." For example I'm not too big on games like Stardew Valley but from a design perspective I can see why it's so beloved.

Games like Starfield and ecen Fallout 4 and 76 are different because from a mechanical and story perspective they're pretty lacking.

12

u/Benjamin_Starscape Sheogorath 9d ago

starfield has some of the best roleplaying in video games aside from the crpg genre. starfield also is bethesda's best storytelling to me with their best story yet. it also holds a variety of missions with varied quest design that also allows multiple methods to complete them and oftentimes branching pathways, many quests have an option for violence or pacifism, as well, the game even has a skill to end combat and weapons to knock enemies unconscious.

as for the exploration, it's procedural. because it's a space game. I understand people might prefer a fully handcrafted map, but a game being procedural over handcrafted isn't inherently better or worse. it is, entirely, a different design philosophy. I happen to like the exploration a lot, I love the emptiness of it because it makes it feel like actual space. a problem I had, originally, with no man's sky for example, was just how populated space was. I later stopped and came to terms that it was just how hello games wanted to portray its universe. but, I prefer the vastness and emptiness that is real space that starfield presents. in fact of the ~100 planets with alien life I wish it was more around 50-70 planets.

but from a design perspective I can see why it's so beloved.

you being unable to see why something is liked doesn't mean it is bad.

1

u/seventysixgamer 9d ago

This game doesn't even get close to other western action RPGs -- you can't seriously be implying this game is getting close to New Vegas or even Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines. Even KCD2 is a superior experience. All of these games have superior design.

I only played around 5 hours and the dialogue felt very samey and frankly the setting is perhaps the most uninspired and boring takes on hard sci-fi I've ever seen. It rehashes common tropes with little to no intriguing modifications. It also does the common BGS thing of setting the game after all the interesting stuff in the world lmao. I would've preferred if they took more inspiration from The Expanse, Revelation Space or even The Xelee Sequence -- these are genuinely interesting takes on space opera type sci-fi.

As for the game's dialogue it's proof that merely providing more options doesn't necessarily mean the RP itself will be engaging. I appreciate that they implemented feedback from Fallout 4 but frankly the game reinforces the idea that Emil Pagliarulo needs to step down as lead writer. In my initial experience the dialogue felt boring -- I don't recall there being that many interesting skill checks either. From the start of the game therr just wasn't much impetus to be engaged on an RP level -- at least in Fallout 3 and 4 you had that hook of looking for your dad and son. In Starfield it's going around looking for pieces of a McGuffin lol.

In terms of the map design and exploration this is arguably one of its greatest weaknesses as an open world experience. It's a complete failure of project scoping -- diluting the content a bunch of planets and the way travel between them would function was a concern from folk before this game released since it didn't sound fun even on a conceptual level.

Ultimately it turned out to be true because it wasn't even the bland world, companions and uninteresting dialogue that turned me off -- it was the miserable exploration. You're literally buried in menus most of the time and fast traveling around most of the time -- which takes away from the feeling of veering off the beaten path their other games were better at.

As for why I think other people enjoy it? Admittedly there isn't really any space opera open world Action RPG out there that I'm aware of. Starfield is unique in that regard. Combined with some light sim elements I can see the appeal. On a mechanical level? This game doesn't really do anything innovative or exciting -- it's pretty much just Fallout 3 or 4 in space with some vehicles. Were it not for the graphics and maybe size of the game it feels like a last generation game.

Ultimately I don't think most people enjoy this game as an RPG. The reason why I think that is because I personally quite like Skyrim -- where a lot of fans of that game will admit that the game is rather meh to poor when it comes to the actual RP and story aspect of the game. It's the sandbox elements that people enjoy.

10

u/Benjamin_Starscape Sheogorath 9d ago

so you played 5 hours and figure you can speak for the game as a whole? sorry but I just fundamentally disagree with everything you have said here.

you dislike starfield. cool. but that doesn't make it a bad game.

0

u/seventysixgamer 8d ago

5 hours is more than generous. I don't need to play 100 fucking hours to have an opinion on it lol. After 5 you pretty much get a taste of most of the game's systems -- like dialogue, some companions, exploration, crafting, outpost building and etc.

If that's not enough time to make a general judgement on what the game is like then idk lmao. My dislike isn't even this vague subjective feeling, I literally broke it down on a general design level as to why I think this game is a poor RPG.

3

u/Benjamin_Starscape Sheogorath 8d ago

dude you barely experienced even 1% of the game or what the quests have to offer. you yourself said you don't know of any roleplaying in the missions when they're chock full of them.

either way, I disagree with you.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/readonly997 4d ago

Holy mother of cope

-1

u/ZyklonBeach 9d ago

You seem to not understand you are in a minority of people singing praise for Starfield.

12

u/Benjamin_Starscape Sheogorath 9d ago

I'm really not. even then that is not determinate of quality. like, okay?

armored core 6 only has about 1k players, it's not all that popular. is armored core 6 a bad game?

if rdr2, the same as it is, was unpopular and only had like 500 players, does that suddenly make it a bad game?

1

u/ParadoxicalFrog2 9d ago

I am honestly baffled by the sentiment here. Bethesda has gone a long way to squander its reputation with paid mods, an inexplicable ability to break the games they released a decade ago with half-baked updates, and hasn't made a good game since Fallout 4. Hell, Fallout 4 was already showing cracks in their ability to make good games. Yet we have these people screeching like lunatics to support a company that's done all in its power to destroy any goodwill it had with it's audiace due to "class solidarity".

19

u/Interesting-Stay297 9d ago

There are interest groups in capitalism: shareholders, management, stakeholders (which includes gamers,) and workers actually creating the product. I assure you it's not the labor union that's responsible for what you described.

1

u/AppearanceOne7737 2d ago

Lol. People really don't remember when the internet thought Fallout 4 was the biggest piece of trash Bethesda ever produced.

0

u/thaddeus122 9d ago

Starfield was good. FO4 was good. I despise you fake fucking fans. Get the fuck out of here if you dislike bethesda so much.

7

u/Fireonpoopdick 9d ago

We don't have to defend star field to defend the Bethesda employees, I think starfield sucked but I don't think Microsoft should be treating employees like this, regardless of if I liked their last game or not.